Trinity Yazimoto Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Alicia Sautereau wrote: Toysoldier Thor wrote: Supposedly LL does not make public Rod's email address so sending an email directly to him is not an easy chore (unless one of you fellow creators / merchants know his email - then IM me to give it to me). As such, here is the letter the new UCCSL group is trying to get Rodvik to read. The UCCSL team would like all its members to distribute this letter shown below to what ever social media you all have so that Rodvik can't help but read it. No offense, but that is a joke, inworld?? most of you are from the US, make an appointment or wait at the door and put down some real contact details for it to be abit more serious. If I was in his shoes doing all that happens, the only thing I would do is think "Yeah, lol, what ever..." and return to business. LL doesn`t listens, LL doesn`t cares (except a few employees) and they will never to a "call me back" note, after all these years you would think that every one would have learned that already, not to mention that he is from EA where they have it down to art. Ok, so to explain a bit... We are well aware about LL doesnt care about us, creators and more generally about the whole SL ammount of SL residents. However, before starting anything, we think its fair to give them a chance to talk with us and hear us. That's how things works usually, there is a protocol in the way you have to contact an entity, for instance here a company, when you strongly disagree with something they impose to you. It would have be a governement or whatever other company, the first step is to ask officially for a meeting. If you dont do it, later, it will be soooo easy for the adversaries to blame you because you didnt make it. So, we do like it has to be done. We first ask them officially to meet them. They answer or they ignore, time will tell. We will know soon. And will make our decisions according to that. You dont think we will just send this letter and stop then, eh ? Its a start. Things have to be done correctly, in the right order, and we have to be irreproachable for they cant put the blame on us. So no. Its not a joke, Alicia, this is a just a beguining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Sautereau Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Ok, so to explain a bit... We are well aware about LL doesnt care about us, creators and more generally about the whole SL ammount of SL residents. However, before starting anything, we think its fair to give them a chance to talk with us and hear us. That's how things works usually, there is a protocol in the way you have to contact an entity, for instance here a company, when you strongly disagree with something they impose to you. It would have be a governement or whatever other company, the first step is to ask officially for a meeting. If you dont do it, later, it will be soooo easy for the adversaries to blame you because you didnt make it. So, we do like it has to be done. We first ask them officially to meet them. They answer or they ignore, time will tell. We will know soon. And will make our decisions according to that. You dont think we will just send this letter and stop then, eh ? Its a start. Things have to be done correctly, in the right order, and we have to be irreproachable for they cant put the blame on us. So no. Its not a joke, Alicia, this is a just a beguining. I will skip you the waiting, you won`t get an answer. If this is the "protocol", then you guys sure work differently on the other side of the ocean. Here we send out signed letters by mail so that the big bad wolf has no leg to stand on to deny not having recieved anything when taking it a step further. This "attempt" should have been a signed letter to LL`s main office adressed to Rodvik with inworld/real contact details asking for an appointment, like the name of the lawyer that has volunteerd to help. I`ve got my self heard and got myself out under so called "contract extensions" with doing everything signed that even one time a collection agency dropped their charges and appologised with a small compensation because their client thought they could extort people. This is not even an attempt by my standards, but like I said, this is a personal belief/point/thingy so don`t get mad at me but I would have done it official from the start to invoke a reaction from our known "Who Cares" CEO. Throwing out a quick google, I would have started by pissing off the entire board and send each of them a letter just for the F` of it hah http://lindenlab.com/about ManagementRod Humble | CEOMalcolm Dunne | CFOKelly Conway | General CounselKathy Humphreys | VP of Human ResourcesDon Laabs | Senior Director of Product John Laurence | VP of ProductJeff Peterson | VP of EngineeringLee Senderov | VP of MarketingBoardMitch Kapor | Kapor Enterprises, Inc.Jed Smith | Managing Partner, Catamount VenturesBill Gurley | Partner, Benchmark Capital Dana L. Evan | Strategic Finance and Operations ExecutiveWill Wright | CEO, Stupid Fun Club Here is an interresting person to contact in the LL office: http://www.linkedin.com/in/leesenderov VP MarketingLinden LabPrivately Held; 201-500 employees; Computer Games industry2012 – Present (1 year) San Francisco Bay AreaOversee all marketing and business development initiatives including user acquisition, branding, communication, licensing, product distribution, website content and community. https://twitter.com/rodvik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Humble -> http://www.rodvik.com/rodgames/ -> humble.rod at gmail.com (active or not, it`s on his page) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Alicia, the letter posted here is not the only one. we also send it by certified paper mail to Rod Humble and Peter Gray. Lol, the letter posted in the forum is just a lil extra. We are not so stupid, the main action is to send by certified mail. :smileywink: but on top to post it by certified mail we also want to use all the other possibilities we have. We have twited Rod. the letter has been posted in FB, G+ etc and as someone suggested in another thread we will also fax the letter to LL office. From what i know about the other side of the ocean (american continent), there too, when there is something to stand up for like, for example workers in a company, they first start a strike (what we are doing since a lot of us have stopped creating) and then ask for negociations. Then, when there is no answer to the negociations request, other ways of actions are choosed. As i said, this is just a first step. and no, we havent only posted this in the forum. No worries :smileywink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Sautereau Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Alicia, the letter posted here is not the only one. we also send it by certified paper mail to Rod Humble and Peter Gray. Lol, the letter posted in the forum is just a lil extra. We are not so stupid, the main action is to send by certified mail. :smileywink: but on top to post it by certified mail we also want to use all the other possibilities we have. We have twited Rod. the letter has been posted in FB, G+ etc and as someone suggested in another thread we will also fax the letter to LL office. From what i know about the other side of the ocean (american continent), there too, when there is something to stand up for like, for example workers in a company, they first start a strike (what we are doing since a lot of us have stopped creating) and then ask for negociations. Then, when there is no answer to the negociations request, other ways of actions are choosed. As i said, this is just a first step. and no, we havent only posted this in the forum. No worries :smileywink: Lol ok, cause from what I read is that this is the letter to LL Thankfully we do the same thing then on both sides of the lake Sorry about the rants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 lol, im sorry, you know its never so easy for me to be clear when i explain something in english.. that s prob why you misunderstood.. Sorry again. :smileyhappy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Czari Zenovka wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: Czari Zenovka wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: Rod goes on the record says how much he understands the community and we all thought we had a CEO that was 1 of us. I'm on record as being suspicious of Rod and his motives from the beginning. I never thought he was one of us; when someone "laughs" and says "SL? Is that still around" when being offered the CEO position of LL was always someone to keep an eye on imo. After the Klingon we were all hoping for the best. And while at the start, he did some things that gave us hope, that warm fuzzy feeling we got in the beginning appears actually to have originated from Dante's Inferno. I'm just pointing out to leave "me" out of the "we" because I never liked him from the outset. It was a very generic 'we.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Cotton Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I am surprised we haven't heard more from our EU friends. Also some folks have been saying this will only affect those that steal content from within SL and outside of SL. I am going to disagree there. If your already a theif why would you care. The front door is locked. Of course your next course of action is to break a window. Folks who don't want their content and rights taken will either get a better lock and/or move to a safer neighborhood. It's not the honest folks LL should of targeted in the new tos revisions. I am still very much perplexed as to why these changes are taking place. The timing with Desura is alarming. The claim on individual works is more than mind boggling. I came to SL in 2003 we were more than encouraged to build and create, upload, preform, write code, poams, sing, run clubs. 2013 None of which you created is yours, LL owns it and can now resell it, and you pay them for the privilage of being allowed to grace their grid with your presence. Via L$, land, memberships, and uploads. Putting my sadness and anger to the side my gut tells me there is something very wrong here, and I don't honestly see that changing anytime soon. I hope this is a wake up call to the creators of SL, not LL. Expand your grid presence if for no other reason than knowing that you can create without LL over your shoulder drooling over your newest gift to the LL portfolio. If someone had tipped me off in 2003 that this is how the party would end. I would of drank in rl that first day, gotten totally hammered.... and not logged in again. Its been an interesting 10 years but I cannot say that I have trusted LL threw most of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 The thing is about renderocity, and Ive put in a email and an actual call to Jennifer Kerry. (maybe she will call back) however, I buy textures from renderocity frequently. Also brushes, styles, actions and patterns for photoshop. I have invested a tidy sum into it. When I began buying I made SURE the sellers EUA allowed it. This is a standard agreement from some of the texture packages I purchased. " All items included in this pack may be used for personal or commercial work.They may not be included in a similar resource pack or placed in any online collection or archive. They may not be made into brushes, tubes, filters, nozzles or other software plugins for free or for resale." Included blurb from renderocity EUA "Purchase of the Product from Renderosity grants the Buyer a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable license to use the contents of the encapsulating zip file. The Buyer may use the Product commercially in the form of rendered images but may not distribute the Product or any of the Product’s files. The Artist (Author) retains all copyrights to the files. The Buyer shall not copy, modify, reverse compile, or reverse engineer the Product, or sell, sublicense, rent, or transfer the Product to any third party. " This is from --Copyright © 2012 mystikel Tags Brushes and Layer Styles by mystikel "For commercial and personal use. You may use this package to create new items for sale with the following restrictions: You may not redistribute this package as is or any of the files included in it (unless of course for texturing clothing or other items where the image/brush is on a UV Template) another from a texture package I bought... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Terms of Use: You MAY use these fabrics to make own texture sets for commercial and noncommercial. It is not allowed to sale the same product or use parts in a similar product. You may not give it away as a gift, or offer it for free. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You may use to make papers, backgrounds, clothing, etc for sale You MAY use them in your new artworks and make prints, or print on demand items If you have questions, please contact me." I do NOT package them for resale and I am explicityly using them in the manner in which the original seller allows. So how can renderocity "ban" its use? They cant. What they can do and I applaud them for doing it is ban using a MESH or SKIN intended for DAZ or Poser use in SL. WHICH ISNT SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPENING ANYWAY acording to those itesm EUA and SO many are ripping content, it makes me ill! I see resold texture packs all over SL. Otherwise they are voiding their users TOS in an outright ban of using content from their site even if the end user is usuing it acording to the original sellers EUA.. As fo cg, I personally do not use that site as it is a lot of renderocity stuff resold but someone else. I am completly within my EUA to use these items in SL. And if Renderocity is calling for an outright ban and is including these, then they are violating the original creaters agreements. This business with LL, I really dont understand all the legal, but I really was under the impression long ago LL could use our likeness or our builds in world where ever they want... this has been so for years. I think a lot more focus should be on the violaters of LL TOS that everyone owns the rights to content, such as rippers grabbing things from turbosquid and renderocity and likewise websites. It is a mess, But I am going to continue to uphold what the EUA states in any thing I have purchased from said sites. Just thoughts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Cotton Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Thanks very much Tarina a lot of great info there. I hope you do hear back from Jennifer soon. I hear you loud and clear on all points and 100% agree with you on the ripped content and EUA points. On another note. I read something on one of the many blogger sites re: this new tos. I wish I had thought to keep the quote and http. The main point was for those who are ok with this new tos. The reply was something to this: "Interesting take you have on, online banking as well." I thought "well now thats just brilliant!" LL is no different, they were intrusted with our goods and services and in the end they decided our commideies were theirs. Why is what is happening any different than what we expect from any business? IMO it is not. I would no more expect my bank to take my cash because I do online banking with them. For those of you who think the tos is perfectly fine. Call up your bank and tell them they can also have your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 I am glad you did this inquiry Tarina. I think its a smart move to get 100% confirmation / validation of where you as a buyer of Renderosity content stand with regard to Renderosity's latest "banning" of content to SL with respect to how you specifically are using their content. Commonsense would agree with your logic as it only sounds right and fair. BUT, as many of us have heard at last Saturday's legal panel meeting, even though Rodvik and his fellow LL Corp IP hi-jacking Thugs might have written a TOS that is just morally unfair wrong.... but its more important how the courts would interpret the TOS in their unemotion way. And therefore, LL might be thugs and underhand and content hi-jackers.... but it initially looks like they are all those legally. What I am saying is... what seems right often isnt in a court of law and what seems wrong often is in a court of law. You are doing the right thing as the EULA licesnsee of someone else's IP.... When ever in doubt - go back and confirm / get clarification. I say that in my EULA ... if you have any questions or need interpretation of my EULA - ask me. And several times my customers have. I am appreciative of that. VERY CURIOUS on their response. I hope you will share their response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 A great article from Kylie that gave me creeps when i read it the first time. http://simstreetjournal.wordpress.com/creators-rights/digital-property-rights-in-second-life-times-have-changed-by-kylie-sabra/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I would see if one of the Lawyers from the discussion would be willing to help with the PR campaign. See if they would help word the ads. I, like many others, would hate to see anything bad come about from this. I do hope LL changes the ToS. I just can't afford to stop creating right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 The bank does have your money, they invest it in things to try and make money for themselves. Take a look at the interest rate. It's never an even number. Anything earned under .01 cents they keep. That gag from Superman 3, it is real. Banks make millions on the "extra" that is left over. Why do you think banks were bailed out by the government? If a bank folds they do not have to pay back anything over a certain set amount, usually 100K. Think of how many small busines would have been ruined, hell some of the larger ones would have been ruined. Should the day come when LL starts selling our items in Desura, I will gladly stop creeating and close my store. Untill then, I will keep my ear to the ground and plug away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: I would see if one of the Lawyers from the discussion would be willing to help with the PR campaign. See if they would help word the ads. I, like many others, would hate to see anything bad come about from this. I do hope LL changes the ToS. I just can't afford to stop creating right now. Noone asked you to stop creating Drake. it has been already told to you several times. Noone ask you to stop. not all the UCCSL members have stopped either. Stop thinking its a requierement from UCCSL, its not and never has been. There is not worries about that. its a personal choice and noone has right to require this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Drake1 Nightfire wrote: I would see if one of the Lawyers from the discussion would be willing to help with the PR campaign. See if they would help word the ads. I, like many others, would hate to see anything bad come about from this. I do hope LL changes the ToS. I just can't afford to stop creating right now. Noone asked you to stop creating Drake. it has been already told to you several times. Noone ask you to stop. not all the UCCSL members have stopped either. Stop thinking its a requierement from UCCSL, its not and never has been. There is not worries about that. its a personal choice and noone has right to require this. Don't put words in my mouth. I never said it was a requirement. Why am I attacked over this? People keep saying over and over how they stopped and no one says anything aside from "Good job" or "Me too." but when I say "I can't afford to stop" or "I will not be stopping" I get chewed out every single time. You could have responded to the main part of my response, but you chose to respond to the inconsequential part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnet Homewood Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Wow, someone is feeling sensitive today ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Drake1 Nightfire wrote: I would see if one of the Lawyers from the discussion would be willing to help with the PR campaign. See if they would help word the ads. I, like many others, would hate to see anything bad come about from this. I do hope LL changes the ToS. I just can't afford to stop creating right now. Noone asked you to stop creating Drake. it has been already told to you several times. Noone ask you to stop. not all the UCCSL members have stopped either. Stop thinking its a requierement from UCCSL, its not and never has been. There is not worries about that. its a personal choice and noone has right to require this. Don't put words in my mouth. I never said it was a requirement. Why am I attacked over this? People keep saying over and over how they stopped and no one says anything aside from "Good job" or "Me too." but when I say "I can't afford to stop" or "I will not be stopping" I get chewed out every single time. You could have responded to the main part of my response, but you chose to respond to the inconsequential part. oh well, Drake, i give up with you. i wanted you stop to feel not comfortable bec you keep creating, but all you can answer is things like if you have been attacked.. i havent attacked you at all, on the contrary, i wanted to tell you we are not blaming you at all and we understand.. and well perhaps we wont say "good job" but we wont say "shame on you " either. but blah.... everytime i try to explain you this , you feel attacked.. maybe its bec im not able to say it correctly in english, idk... so i give up...:smileyfrustrated: for the first part of your post, i havent answered bec i dont understand it so i prefer to let this job to other, ppl with better english than mine...First, as you know maybe, the conference has been in voice and in english, althought ive heard it the whole 3 hours, bravely, i havent understood. Im still waiting the transcripts. and i dont know what is the PR campaign you are talking about. and to finish, i dont understand what you mean with your 3 sentences there. but if you want to know really what they said you can hear the records of the conference on ToySoldier blog , the link has been posted some pages ago, and there are also several videos on youtube of vimeo. Then you ll have your answers i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Cotton Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I think your smart enough to see the point I was trying to make, so I wont waste your time explaining it in great detail. I found it a bit insulting that you described banking to me like you were also about to sell me on the leather checkbook holder to match my purse. Do you realize that Linden Lab also posted to the Desura web about changes they are about to make with that Tos? "....Changing the license will require that we initiate discussions with past contributors. If some contributors are uncomfortable with this new structure, we may need to evaluate the impact that could have and whether we may need to make any adjustments. Contributors should each expect to hear from us soon...." I suppose that is all just much to do about nothing also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 You don't have to keep telling me that it's ok that i keep creating. To be honest, i don't care if anyone thinks it's ok for me to keep creating. That is MY choice. I don't need a pat on the head like a puppy over this. Every time i say i am going to keep creating, you come back with a responce about how that is ok.. You keep dragging the UCCSL into it. I am not a part of that group. What i do in SL has no bearing on that group, even if i was a member. I feel attacked because you keep telling me this. It seems to be perfectly acceptable for people to say they aren't creating without someone saying it ok for them to stop, but when someone says they are going t keep creating they get told that it is ok for them to do so. I do not need your approval to create things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 its ok Drake, i give up with you, ill fix this with you in IM anyway. if you feel attacked im sorry, but i m not attacking you. You cant accuse me for something i havent done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Don't put words in my mouth... You could have responded to the main part of my response, but you chose to respond to the inconsequential part. oh well, Drake, i give up with you. .... i havent attacked you at all, on the contrary, i wanted to tell you we are not blaming you at all and we understand.. .... everytime i try to explain you this , you feel attacked.. maybe its bec im not able to say it correctly in english, idk... so i give up... for the first part of your post, i havent answered bec i dont understand it so i prefer to let this job to other, ppl with better english than mine...First, as you know maybe, the conference has been in voice and in english, althought ive heard it the whole 3 hours, bravely, i havent understood. Im still waiting the transcripts. and i dont know what is the PR campaign you are talking about. and to finish, i dont understand what you mean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Since this thread is not about english language, but about the TOS and the battle some creators are having for LL change this. Since you said yourself in another thread you DGAF about the real topic, i suggest you to go back to your playground and play with your friends. stop wasting your energy stalking me and harrassing me about my english level... you wont get anything you like. i DAGF about it. YOU WILL NEVER ACHIEVE TO MAKE ME SHUT UP. bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Cotton Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 My error, I followed some links threw a profile and was mistaken. As to the store name, and ownership. Thanks for having me double check this. EDIT: Apparently by his own admission he is selling the B in Boston Red Sox Logo on his t shirts on the marketplace. Which makes my above statement null and void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Hancroft Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: <snip> You keep dragging the UCCSL into it. I am not a part of that group. <snip> You should consider joining the group, Drake. They are driven to try to get Linden Lab to revoke/revert the TOS back to what it was before with regard to our IP rights. It's a worthwhile endeavor and will be a benefit to ALL of us. I make textures (among other things). I have not stopped creating either. I love making textures for SL. However, I have not uploaded any texture packs to sell since this new TOS debacle started. Hopefully, we can get this all turned around and when/if we do, I'm gonna have a LOT to upload. :-) I also build with prims and I haven't stopped doing that either. I really enjoy that too. But, here again, I haven't boxed anything up, taken photos, and created a listing for anything. Yes, I know that the Lab can grab my prim builds out of my inventory if they want to and start selling them. But, they aren't textured or anything (I use local textures to make sure what I've got is looking good inworld) so if they want an untextured pile of prims all stuck together, more power to them I guess. Understand...I am just a small potatos merchant in SL. I make enough to pay tier on my home parcel and have some spending money inworld is all. I don't make enough to cash out lindens from SL to paypal. I'm guessing you do, however, since you say you can't afford to stop creating. So I understand where you're coming from, Bro. What I don't think you're understanding is that we're not out to make anybody feel bad for not halting all creating endeavors. I didn't read anything in Miss Trinity's posts that were "Drake Bashing." I think you're reading more into her words than are there and taking it all personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Catherine Cotton wrote: Since you brought up the creating bit your fair game in my book. Your Boston Red Sox stuff on the Marketplace...yeah about that. Ya might wanna take that down. Drake1 does not sell Red Sox stuff. What a really nasty accusation to make in public. ETA I wonder if your post is not another way of saying if you're not with us, you are against us. Go figure. A typical strong-arm tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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