COPYBOTTING is alive and well...

[Jer Straaf]

I sold an expensive game to somebody and two days later I saw a part of that game for sale on Marketplace by an associate of the person to whom I sold the game. I promptly notified Linden Labs by filing a support case, and I was promptly told by Linden Labs to file a DCMA. Since I am not Coca Cola and of course will not hire a RL lawyer to protect my identity, spend tons of time/money on this issue, etc, they are basically telling me to "go take a hike." Essentially, the crack house owner is now saying that unless a complex due process is folllowed,they are not responsible for anything that goes on inside their crack house.

What has changed? In the past, a simple notification of an obvious copybot job would result in the offending object being removed right away. Is Second Life now so full of holes that this kind of TOS violation has overwhelmed the LL staff? So it's an "anything goes" world now unless you are Coca Cola or have a RL lawyer? That's it, case closed, another copybotter prevails.

It seems that Linden Labs is giving up. Maybe they've finally realized that THEY caused this problem, that it actually benefits THEM financially and that the "little people" (their customers) deserve no protection at all. Pffft...

 

[Madeline Blackbart]

according to there site it looks like you just need to send them a written letter with contact information? So I don't think you need to hire a lawyer. http://secondlife.com/corporate/dmca.php

[Amethyst Jetaime]

You have always had to file a DMCA to have something removed for violating your IP rights.  I've been in SL seven years and have never known it to be handled any other way.  I filed my first DMCA in early 2007 after I filed an AR on someone and was told by LL only a DMCA would work to have the offending content removed.

Anytime you accuse someone of violating your IP rights, the burden of proof is on you.  If you choose not to legally prove your allegations why should LL?  If they acted on someone's word only then a lot of people would be falsely accused by competitors or someone with a grudge and it would turn into a free for all.

You don't need a lawyer to file a DMCA.  You only need one if you file and the person you accuse counter files AND you choose to take them to RL court.   If someone counterfiles on you, you are not required to take them to court.  It is your decision to do so or not.  I've filed DMCA's successfully with no counterclaim being filed.

As far as LL having any liability the TOS clearly states that they do not and always has, which you agreed to when you created your account.

I am not defending LL, but I also don't want to see a circus of he said / she said accusations flying around either that could damage the reputations of many innocent parties as a result of LL taking anyone's word for it.  I also don't want LL being the judge and jury on these matters either. 

 

[Pamela Galli]

LL does not have to take anything down unless they get a DMCA.  Understandably, they do not want to police content and evenif they did, how would they know what is ripped? There are legal penalties for filing a false DMCA, but not for filing a false support ticket. 

 

(The problem is that when the same account has multiple DMCAs filed on them, LL ignores it. They say they will act against "repeat" offenders but do not spell out what "repeat" means. )

 

 

[Jer Straaf]

To Amethyst: "You have always had to file a DMCA to have something removed for violating your IP rights." That is a false statement, myself and others have had obviously copybotted products taken down in the past with a simple email to Dakota or Brooke, so something HAS changed.  I suspect that they were overwhelmed and decided it was not economical to protect their customers. So, like good little bureaucrats, they erected barriers. But thanks for all of the "boilerplate" info, I already got that from LL.

Also, you don't need a lawyer? YES YOU DO, if you want to keep your RL identity away from someone you already know is a criminal, a thief or at the very least a person of bad character. The lawyer shields your RL identy. Also, as you put it, the burden of proof is on the victim, it's an institutionalized, Linden Labs-created "double whammy" against the victim.

I caught a copybotter red-handed and identified him to Linden Labs. Using a copybot viewer or device is a TOS violation, yet the case is closed, that's it, the copybotter won. What is so hard to understand about that, Anethyst? Do you think I am looking for LL to compensate me? You think I feel they are somehow "on the hook" for this specific instance? Pfffft...

Soft-peddle it any way you like, my entire point here is that, institutionally, LL is still way behind the curve on this important issue and despite what they might say publicly. COPYBOTTING is alive, well and flourishing in Second Life.

[Alicia Sautereau]

Ofcourse it`s alive, what did you expect?
You don`t need a lawyer, trying to undo a dmca is more troublesom then filing one and does require abit of payed help

 

Two people with the same content, both claiming it`s theirs and that the other ripped it
One person asks a linden to ban the other, linden bans the wrong one, what then? yep, lindens liable

DMCA, paperwork, lindens coverd and it`s for the two to fight it out
That is not erecting barriers, that`s being legally coverd and in case you missed it, LL grew up since the early days and learned pretty well how to cover their arse these days

 

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Jer Straaf wrote:

To Amethyst: "You have always had to file a DMCA to have something removed for violating your IP rights." That is a false statement, myself and others have had obviously copybotted products taken down in the past with a simple email to Dakota or Brooke, so something HAS changed.  I suspect that they were overwhelmed and decided it was not economical to protect their customers. So, like good little bureaucrats, they erected barriers. But thanks for all of the "boilerplate" info, I already got that from LL.

Also, you don't need a lawyer? YES YOU DO, if you want to keep your RL identity away from someone you already know is a criminal, a thief or at the very least a person of bad character. The lawyer shields your RL identy. Also, as you put it, the burden of proof is on the victim, it's an institutionalized, Linden Labs-created "double whammy" against the victim.

I caught a copybotter red-handed and identified him to Linden Labs. Using a copybot viewer or device is a TOS violation, yet the case is closed, that's it, the copybotter won. What is so hard to understand about that, Anethyst? Do you think I am looking for LL to compensate me? You think I feel they are somehow "on the hook" for this specific instance? Pfffft...

Soft-peddle it any way you like, my entire point here is that, institutionally, LL is still way behind the curve on this important issue and despite what they might say publicly. COPYBOTTING is alive, well and flourishing in Second Life.

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[Jer Straaf]

I was just "venting" I guess, thanks for the replies!

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Jer Straaf wrote:

To Amethyst: "You have always had to file a DMCA to have something removed for violating your IP rights." That is a false statement, myself and others have had obviously copybotted products taken down in the past with a simple email to Dakota or Brooke, so something HAS changed.  I suspect that they were overwhelmed and decided it was not economical to protect their customers. So, like good little bureaucrats, they erected barriers. But thanks for all of the "boilerplate" info, I already got that from LL.

IF that is true, you received special treatment because you knew some Lindens, which is not fair to those who didn't.  At one time there were Lindens that gave out special treatment to their friends and it was a real problem because they didn't always act fairly to all concerned.  LL squashed it and I am glad they did.  ALL customers should be treated the same way.  

Also, you don't need a lawyer? YES YOU DO, if you want to keep your RL identity away from someone you already know is a criminal, a thief or at the very least a person of bad character. The lawyer shields your RL identy. Also, as you put it, the burden of proof is on the victim, it's an institutionalized, Linden Labs-created "double whammy" against the victim.

A lawyer can not shield your RL information as the DMCA notice must show your RL information, including a statement that under penalty of perjury that your assertions are true and your RL signature.  If protecting your RL identity is paramount to you then don't file a DMCA, but don't complain if the items are not removed either.  You are accusing someone of breaking the RL law.  If you did that in RL you would have to give the police your RL information for them to do anything about it, or to a court of law if it is a civil matter.

I caught a copybotter red-handed and identified him to Linden Labs. Using a copybot viewer or device is a TOS violation, yet the case is closed, that's it, the copybotter won. What is so hard to understand about that, Anethyst? Do you think I am looking for LL to compensate me? You think I feel they are somehow "on the hook" for this specific instance? Pfffft...

It is your word against theirs.  What you say about them may be true about using a copybot, but how is LL to know you are not just trying to harass someone?  I am glad they insist on following the law and requiring due process before acting.  BTW, I never said you were expecting LL to compensate you but your original post made it clear that you think they bear responsibility for allowing it to happen when in fact they do not.

Soft-peddle it any way you like, my entire point here is that, institutionally, LL is still way behind the curve on this important issue and despite what they might say publicly. COPYBOTTING is alive, well and flourishing in Second Life.

On the contrary, I take IP theft

very

seriously and urge you to file a DMCA.  If you don't you are just allowing the thieves to continue to act illegally with impunity.  If you are not part of the solution by doing what you can, you are part of the reason that this continues to go on.  That is what thieves count on.

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[Madeline Blackbart]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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A lawyer can not shield your RL information as the DMCA notice must show your RL information, including a statement that under penalty of perjury that your assertions are true and your RL signature.  If protecting your RL identity is paramount to you then don't file a DMCA, but don't complain if the items are not removed either.  You are accusing someone of breaking the RL law.  If you did that in RL you would have to give the police your RL information for them to do anything about it, or to a court of law if it is a civil matter.

 

It is your word against theirs.  What you say about them may be true about using a copybot, but how is LL to know you are not just trying to harass someone?  I am glad they insist on following the law and requiring due process before acting.  BTW, I never said you were expecting LL to compensate you but your original post made it clear that you think they bear responsibility for allowing it to happen when in fact they do not.

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This exactly. WIsh I coudl give you kudos for your calm logical and sensible reply. He said she said is a slippery slop indeed.

[Coby Foden]

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Jer Straaf wrote:

 

I

promptly

notified

Linden

Labs

Linden Lab

by

filing

a

support

case..

---

[Rant on] :smileyfrustrated:

Why people insist calling the company with a wrong name. Where did this trend come from, I wonder?

There is no S at the end. The company name is:

http://lindenlab.com/ 

[Rant off] :smileytongue:

 

[Ela Talaj]

This is not clear. An SL game must include not just objects but also scripts that make the game run. Are you saying someone copybotted your game scripts?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

---

Coby Foden wrote:

---

Jer Straaf wrote:

 

I

promptly

notified

Linden

Labs

Linden Lab

by

filing

a

support

case..

---

[Rant on] :smileyfrustrated:

Why people insist calling the company with a wrong name. Where did this trend come from, I wonder?

There is no

S

at the end. The company name is:

http://lindenlab.com/

 

[Rant off] :smileytongue:

 

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At one time they had more than one office and people just started calling them  plural.

[Okami Aquila]

I could not have said it better.