Have I found the one item that didn't exist before Mesh???

[Marigold Devin]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

Very lovely dragon, indeed.

Your PC upgrading story reminds me of one from long ago; I've mentioned it on the forums before, but you may not have seen it...

I began playing Everquest (EQ) when it was only about 6 months old, if that. MMORPGs release "expansions" - more challenges for the hardcore players, basically.  I'm not the type that joins guilds, but I had been invited into a "family type guild" which generally means composed of players who enjoy social aspects of the game and aren't into hardcore raiding/power playing, etc.  This guild was even a "family" guild in that many of the members were married and had children who were also in the guild. 

After about a year, EQ released a major expansion that included a huge update for the avatars as well as better graphics quality overall.  The grumbling within the guild about having to now upgrade their PCs to be able to play this expansion was resounding.  The best comment of all was from our guild leader:

"I just spent $100.00 to upgrade my PC to be able to play a $30.00 game."

($30.00 being the price of the expansion.)

I've never forgotten that.

 

---

Yep, it's all about perspective.

If something gives someone a huge amount of pleasure, then its always worth spending money on, if the money is available, but spending money to keep up with other people, or something that has too many down-sides, especially when those negative aspects often outweigh the positives, is another thing altogether.

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Jinnywitha Cleanslate wrote:

Anyway - so that little rant over with, I was looking for an oversized shirt/night shirt/ boyfriend shirt - an when entering all those into the Marketplace I only find Mesh items.  Surely these were in existance before Mesh, in a decent quality?

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I haven't read the whole thread, but it seems to have veered off into PC talk (which is being well handled by others). I'll return to your original question and hope nobody's already answered it...

Before mesh, there weren't really any oversized anythings. Mesh brought the ability for oversized clothing to bend with the avatar. Clothing layer stuff is just body paint and so is always close fitting. Anything fitting away from the body (except the horrid system skirt) was made of attachments constructed entirely of prims, or collections of them, rigid and/or flexi.

So, it was difficult, if not impossible, to create an article of clothing with a loose fit. The best you could do was to wear a single attachment over the torso, like a vest or cami. Clothing layer pants and tops could have prim cuffs, belts, collars and baubles, but not much more. You might have seen an oversize prim jacket with epaulets to hide the joint between the jacket body and prim upper sleeves and something weird at the elbows to join the upper and lower sleeves, but those invariably made you look robot who envies humans for all the wrong reasons.

My silly solution for obtaining an oversized SL look would be to jam the SL body sliders in the oversized direction. Unfortunately, during my nearly five years here, I did the same thing in RL, and have only recently got back to my pre-SL proportions.

;-)

[Jinnywitha Cleanslate]

Thank you - but the computer issues bought up here are still very helpful.  So I don't mind at all.

I am a larger build AV - I'm a large person in RL  and I wanted to be me in SL.  I manage and work on a Sim that started out predominantly as a place for bigger people, but has evolved into a clean hangout sim of acceptance and respect.  One of the comments I repeatedly hear is that they can't get Mesh to fit properly - and the problem is even worse than it was before for people in our community now...either that or I'm just getting more comments about it.  Well - in my current non-mesh world, it doesn't affect me directly so much - but that shall no doubt be another delightful SL adventure whenever I resolve my own technical issues.

I still am hoping that LL will buy me a new computer!  Lol

[Jinnywitha Cleanslate]

LOL - loving the Mesh pics - there should be a gallery somewhere!  LOL

[Jinnywitha Cleanslate]

I have tried to run Cool Viewer - I saw Mesh!  ..... and then crashed out..repeatedly..... and then ran out of virtual memory......and crashed..... and couldn't tp........  But - I SAW MESH!!!!!!   I will definately keep checking up on that one, as it looked so good.   And I don't mean that sarcastically - Thank you !!!!

[Jinnywitha Cleanslate]

Nope - been using the same computer since 1999.  lol

[Jinnywitha Cleanslate]

Also - Laughed my head off at this video - thank you for posting.  Lol

[Abigail Longmeadow]

From what I have read, any viewer that can render mesh requires SSE2 . See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sse2  and  http://secondlife.com/support/system-requirements/  for a description of SSE2 and a list of CPU chips that support it.. If you do not have a computer with SSE2, I think your only option is a non-graphical viewer, like Radegast or METABolt.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Jinnywitha Cleanslate wrote:

Thank you - but the computer issues bought up here are still very helpful.  So I don't mind at all.

 

I am a larger build AV - I'm a large person in RL  and I wanted to be me in SL.  I manage and work on a Sim that started out predominantly as a place for bigger people, but has evolved into a clean hangout sim of acceptance and respect.  One of the comments I repeatedly hear is that they can't get Mesh to fit properly - and the problem is even worse than it was before for people in our community now...either that or I'm just getting more comments about it.  Well - in my current non-mesh world, it doesn't affect me directly so much - but that shall no doubt be another delightful SL adventure whenever I resolve my own technical issues.

 

I still am hoping that LL will buy me a new computer!  Lol

---

I have the same complaint as you about mesh clothing. I'm what some people call a "little s-h-i-t", 5'3" if I'm in a good mood and boobs smaller than my ex-husband's. I'm better endowed in SL, but even so mesh tops leave enough room in the bust for me to shoplift two Linden bears without anyone noticing.

I understand the difficulty of deforming mesh clothing to accommodate various avatar settings, but it's just another little insult heaped on all the other delightful SL adventures. 

While you hope that LL buys you a new computer, do you mind if I hope they buy themselves a few? I sometimes get the feeling they're running the entire grid on just one.

;-)

[Dillon Levenque]

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Jinnywitha Cleanslate wrote:

Nope - been using the same computer since 1999.  lol

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Okay, that really does make you unusual in the computer user world. I'm somewhat amazed a computer that old will work with SL at all, even pre-mesh and using V1. I can only assume you stuffed the best graphics card you could find at the time in there (or possibly found a newer graphics card that was compatible with whatever buss connections you had available).

I started in 2008 using a laptop I bought used. No add-on graphics, just the Intel chipset. That was V1 days, of course. It was actually usable, but crashes were frequent (I would crash almost every time if I tried to Edit Avatar Appearance while wearing anything much more than my skin, for instance). I had to learn to dress by adding one item at a time and getting that right before going on to the next. Even so, that laptop FAR exceeded the capability of any normally available PC built in 1999.

You could upgrade to a used PC for very little money (like a lot less than half the going price for a new low-end PC), add a low-end graphics card, and be able to see Mesh no problem. Not only that, you'd probably see SL far better than you do now.

I wouldn't recommend that myself, because you can build or acquire a quite good computer for less than you might think, but if your budget it really skimpy and you've been getting by with your ancient PC, my suggestion would improve your SL without tearing a big hole in your budget.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

 

My silly solution for obtaining an oversized SL look would be to jam the SL body sliders in the oversized direction. Unfortunately, during my nearly five years here, I did the same thing in RL, and have only recently got back to my pre-SL proportions.

;-)

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Happened to you as well, eh?  I'm still working on getting my RL size back to pre-SL proportions. :matte-motes-bashful-cute:

[Czari Zenovka]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

...because you can build or acquire a quite good computer for less than you might think...

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Have you built a PC, Dillon?  Am asking because I am seriously thinking of doing so and would love to chat with you if you have.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

im not sure, i havent tried it..

but Imprudence team is back to work on an experimental V1 imprudence viewer... and they are currently working to make it able to handle the SSB and SSA.. i dont know if its mesh enabled (i dont think it is) already but if they achieve their challenge, the viewer will be still V1 but with SSB enabled...What would be a an awesome thing for all those who have old PC

http://blog.kokuaviewer.org/2013/05/25/imprudence-experimental-1-is-released/

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Ooooo, GREAT news!!!  Thanks for sharing that, Trinity!

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you are welcome Czari, i thought to you as soon as a friend told me... but as usually, i ve been hijacked by tons of other things.. but anyway, i would have tell you soon lol..

im not sure, i didnt know about the Cool V1, but imprudence, from what i know doesnt see mesh.. its not only the UI that is V1 but the codes... therefore, i think its compatible with older comps.... For now, its not still SSB enable... but what called my attention about this, is that they said in the comments, at the bottom of the blog post, that they are working on this.... Not specially on meshes.. its possible that meshes wont never be possible on V1.... but at my big surprise, they didnt closed the door about the SSB possiblility...

Indeed, you know already my opinion about meshes, and yes, you can live without... but for all landscaping and furnitures, meshes are great and they are now almost everywhere... what increase the need for mesh ablility, imho.... 

but anyway.... the more important thing for now, is SSB ability.... So i really hope, Imprudence will achieve their project... it looked to me like a fantastic challenge.

[Coby Foden]

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

 

.. its possible that meshes wont never be possible on V1...

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Cool VL Viewer has V1 user interface.

It has been mesh enabled already for a long time. So, it's possible.

And it is SSB enabled too.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

 

.. its possible that meshes wont never be possible on V1...

---

Cool VL Viewer

 has V1 user interface.

It has been mesh enabled already for a long time. So, it's possible.

And it is SSB enabled too.

---

yes this is why dont think Cool viewer is a real V1... it just has the UI as a V1, so its possible it wont work on older PC... 

while Imprudence challenge seems to make a real V1 but with SSB enabled... (for now, they still havent succeeded for this, but they are working on it... )

[Jinnywitha Cleanslate]

Sadly, I have zero budget to spare.  I was long term unemployed due to illness, so SL was my outlet and escape.  Then after a hard slog of looking for work for over 2yrs, I finally got a job, and was in it for 8weeks, only to have an industrial accident in December, which has left me unable to walk properly, and has made me disabled.  There is no compensation to be claimed, due to the circumstances and a change in UK law regarding compensation claims - and the company fired me for 'lack of attendance' in spite of hospital and medical letters, leaving me with no income whatsoever.  So basically - even for $10 I couldn't afford a new computer right now.  Thank God the internet is a gift from my brother!  I often wish I were a smoker or drinker, so I could give it up and reallocate spare cash - but I'm not.  Lol. 

 

Ah well - I have faith....   LL don't let me down, on the giving me a new computer thing!!!!  LMAO! 

 

[Dillon Levenque]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

---

Dillon Levenque wrote:

...because you can build or acquire a quite good computer for less than you might think...

---

Have you built a PC, Dillon?  Am asking because I am seriously thinking of doing so and would love to chat with you if you have.

---

In the early PC days I always built my own computers, Czari. For one thing I lived near and later worked in Silicon Valley and you couldn't drive two blocks without passing a shop that sold computer components (often strangely re-packaged—Oh, look. A SoundBlaster in a brown box but like at half price!—and without some of the original documentation), for another, off-the-shelf PC's were quite high-priced.

At some point the line moved and I realized I was spending more for components than I would for a complete package and quit doing so. I remember a friend's wife saying, "You actually BOUGHT a computer?". Mind you I was never a big gamer so out of the box graphics and speed were okay for me. These days I've been given to understand that self-assembly (of a relatively good gaming box, anyway) is once again less expensive than ready-made.

The only thing I've done with my current 'off-the-shelf' is add RAM, install a graphics card, and upgrade the power supply. Those are all very, very easy things to do and almost impossible to do incorrectly. I would think if you bought all three in the same shop they'd probably install them no-charge. It's that easy.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

...because you can build or acquire a quite good computer for less than you might think...

---

Have you built a PC, Dillon?  Am asking because I am seriously thinking of doing so and would love to chat with you if you have.

---

In the early PC days I always built my own computers, Czari. For one thing I lived near and later worked in Silicon Valley and you couldn't drive two blocks without passing a shop that sold computer components (often strangely re-packaged—Oh, look. A SoundBlaster in a brown box but like at half price!—and without some of the original documentation), for another, off-the-shelf PC's were quite high-priced.

At some point the line moved and I realized I was spending more for components than I would for a complete package and quit doing so. I remember a friend's wife saying, "You actually BOUGHT a computer?". Mind you I was never a big gamer so out of the box graphics and speed were okay for me. These days I've been given to understand that self-assembly (of a relatively good gaming box, anyway) is once again less expensive than ready-made.

The only thing I've done with my current 'off-the-shelf' is add RAM, install a graphics card, and upgrade the power supply. Those are all very, very easy things to do and almost impossible to do incorrectly. I would think if you bought all three in the same shop they'd probably install them no-charge. It's that easy.

---

I built a few PCs, but stopped nearly a decade ago when I found a refurbished Dell for a price I couldn't refuse. Now I'm back to being all Apple.

I have a little technical background, so assembling a PC from bits was within my wheelhouse (I want a wheelhouse!) and I don't think I'm a good judge of how difficult a non-technical person would find the challenge. High school kids do it, but I think they do it on their parent's budget, which probably allows more room for error.

My local custom PC shop is not competitive with the big box and online retailers for comparable setups. They can't be, they're small and have leases and student employees to pay, entirely off their PC sales. They exist because gamers want configurations they can't find elsewhere, like fans large enough to levitate the machine, lit so brightly that extraterrestrials use them for landing beacons. I found their expertise... no wait, that's a piece of lint. Okay, I'm still looking.

In the past, I did buy things from NewEgg, and I found their customer reviews to be helpful. My advice would be from experiences of a decade ago, but I'm happy to offer it anyway!

 

[Coby Foden]

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

---

Coby Foden wrote:

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

 

.. its possible that meshes wont never be possible on V1...

---

Cool VL Viewer

 has V1 user interface.

It has been mesh enabled already for a long time. So, it's possible.

And it is SSB enabled too.

---

yes this is why dont think Cool viewer is a real V1... it just has the UI as a V1, so its possible it wont work on older PC... 

while Imprudence challenge seems to make a real V1 but with SSB enabled... (for now, they still havent succeeded for this, but they are working on it... )

---

Well, Cool VL viewer has started from real V1 viewer code. To see mesh, SSB and materials those features have been added from V3 viewer code. That's the only way to enable the new features in a viewer what Linden Lab adds to Second Life and their viewer - like mesh, SSB, materials. So any viewer with V1 interface will internally have more and more V3 code in them, if they are going to keep up with Linden Lab features. There is no magic trick anybody could do to enable those features in a viewer by coding them by themselves - the code must be imported from Linden Lab viewer.

The same thing will happen to Imprudence. If they add mesh, SSB and materials capability, those features must be imported from V3 viewer code base and be merged with V1 code - which is not an easy task. If they don't add mesh support then the viewer will be be rather useless as more and more mesh will appear to SL - unless one wants to have "fun" taking snapshots of incorrectly rendered mesh. :smileysurprised: :smileywink: 

The truth is (unfortunately) that the new features what Linden Lab has added (and possibly will add even more in the future) will put more requirements for the computer hardware. There is no way around it - unless all SL feature development and enhancements towards beauty are stopped. Second Life even now is rather cartoonish looking. Surely it would be great to see it grow more and more beautiful place. The materials - available already in Linden Lab beta viewer - will be one more thing towards that end. :matte-motes-smile:

 

[Czari Zenovka]

I'm so sorry to hear about your accident resulting in disability.  I am also on disability and do get what amounts to early retirement but since I had to leave work relatively young and didn't get to rank up more "credits" to go towards my Social Security, the check is miniscule.  I'm grateful for getting a check but, well, you know how it goes.

That is the argument I kept getting last year - if you can't afford a new PC then you shouldn't be able to afford an internet connection.  That's correct.  I wouldn't have an internet connection nor be able to pay my electric and phone bills if my mother wasn't helping.  As you said, being online is my main connection to the world and my mother fortunately is willing to pay that for me.

Anyway...on to your original OP - I got so involved with the PC discussion since this is a hot topic for me, that I totally forgot I own a "Boyfriend Shirt." /facepalms

I obtained this in 2007 in a group gift from Blaze.  (My partner back then bought a lot of his clothes from Blaze and had me join the group to get this gift...but I digress... *Grins*)  This is, of course, drawn/painted system wear - a top with a separate "skirt" layer to get the shirt tail effect.  It may look very dated now but I enjoyed wearing it back when and still like the look now.  It is called the "Boyfriend Buttondown."  I tried to find it at Blaze on the MP but didn't find it using those keywords and didn't scroll through their entire store.  It's possible they may still have it in world, but since it is so old...maybe not.  Anyway, this is what it looks like (yes I'm wearing two different hairstyles...after photoshopping the front view I realized the back view hid the back details and I didn't want to redo the front photo):

I did a search on the MP using the search term "boyfriend+shirt" and got one hit that I don't think is mesh:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/ME-BOYFRIENDS-JACKET-GREEN/684347

It looks like it makes use of sculptys for the "bulkier" effect.

Yeaaa!  I finally got around to answering the original topic.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

well i had no idea what was a "boyfriend jacket or shirt " lol.. so thank you Czari, now i think i have a clue thanks to your pic and the link.  and indeed, the name was pretty obvious lol but not for me...

however

@ OP if you want one in particular, if you have a precise idea about the kind of fabric, color, etc you want.. i think i have the prims necesaries to make one for you... (i wont charge you for this). So if you are not in rush (my list to do, is enough long lol) and can give me precise infos about what you want, im me inworld.. id be delighted to help you :smileywink:

[Czari Zenovka]

I really appreciate your input, Dillon & Madelaine (may I call you Maddy?).  After literally months of researching, getting the opinions of friends - some of whom are techies - more research, looking at big box stores in RL and online and more recently having watched building vids, I have come to a crossroads:

1.  I definitely want a PC that will be easy to upgrade.  When I check out the brand names online (Win7 having apparently disappeared from the brick & morter stores) - some of the cases seem either plastic-looking/flimsy and/or not as wide as my custom-built steel box.  I had a situation years ago when I purchased an HP and when I needed to replace a component discovered only HP parts would fit it.  I suppose if I found a brand name that was decent and there was a case issue, I could purchase a case later and transfer the components over.

2. From watching a gazillion building PCs vids, I don't see any price difference in building one vs. buying the identical PC prebuilt; in fact in some cases it is more expensive.  The one area in which the prices are on par are the gaming PCs.  I configured several PCs on iBUYPOWER, that someone on the forums highly recommended.  I could get the low end of what I'm shooting for and stay in budget BUT iBUYPOWER charges a $75.00 shipping fee.  Bleh.  The main issue that concerns me about building a PC is not wanting to buy parts online that I would have to send back if it arrived damaged, etc.  Dillon, I visited a friend in San Jose years ago and you're right - PC city!!!  I LOVED going to Fry's and would definitely give building a try if a Fry's or Microcenter, etc. were in my area.  The closest thing I have are small PC shops that stock parts.

3.  Which brings me to the third route (and the one I initially preferred) - having a PC custom-built in a small shop like my current PC was.  There are three such shops in town.  I have estimates from 2 of them and posted the specs/prices of one shop in the forums awhile back.  I was told many of the parts were very old, especially for the price (cheapest one being $725.00!!! and only an i3 chip).  The 2nd shop's estimate was $850.00 for "an AMD quad core processor" (how generic), 500 GB HDD, and "High Resolution Graphics." Errr, could we be a bit more specific?  At any rate $850.00 is way out of my budget so...NEXT.

The last shop is the one that sells PC parts as well.  I have not obtained an estimate from there yet but, based on the other two, I can't imagine their competitor would be much less expensive, if at all.

So that's where I stand.  At this point I have "overthought" the whole deal, and probably annoyed my friends who begin IMs with me saying, "How is the PC search going? *ducks*" :matte-motes-bashful-cute:

The main reason I'm trying to be careful is this money is so precious to me that, if I pick a PC that can't be upgraded, etc., I won't have any more money to correct the issue.

Bleh....this is making my head hurt. :matte-motes-confused:

 

[Czari Zenovka]

LOL, Trinity.  Yes, the idea is women who like to wear their boyfriend/husband/partner's shirts to sleep in.  Since men are (generally) larger than their respective girlfriend/wife/partner, the shirts would then be oversized on them; again, making them great "sleep shirts."

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

I really appreciate your input, Dillon & Madelaine (may I call you Maddy?)

 

---

Maddy's perfect, though I'm also amused by MadBagLady.

In response to your bullet points...

1) The refurbished Dell I bought a decade ago was one of their XPS gaming machines. The only thing standard about it was that it took PCI cards. The power supply was proprietary, and the motherboard was something only a mother could love, with no option to replace the CPU. So you'd have to be quite careful if purchasing a big name PC. They have no interest in making their boxes terribly upgradeable. They want you back in their store as soon as possible.

2) Yep, build your own seems to offer no cost advantage. It does allow you to pick and chose bits that might not be available in a pre-built. As for returning damaged stuff without incurring a cost, that's one reason to use Amazon. I have returned several big ticket electronic items to Amazon over the years, because they were defective in manufacture or design. I've never had to pay a penny. I do have Amazon Prime ($80/yr?), which might be the reason returns have been so hassle free, I'm not sure.

3) Your experience with local shops matches mine. They're behind the times, the curve and the eight ball. The shop that sells parts will probably not be competitive with NewEgg and the like. They never were when I visited here.

When I was young and eager to make things, I had the help of the fashion challenged local computer club people. I don't know if there are computer clubs anymore, but there is a rising tide of "maker" clubs. I visited "Maker Space" in Milwaukee a few months ago, and saw a whole shelf of PC cases and guts that had been donated by members who'd upgraded. I'm not recommending scavenging from your local equivalent, but if there is a maker club near you, they may have members who could help you assemble or select parts to make a PC.

Take your head outside into the sunshine. I find that helps when mine hurts from thinking.

;-)

[Snugs McMasters]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Maddy's perfect.

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That's no way to make friends.