Virwox loss due to new TOS 5/2013

[Evhalyn Serpente]

Does anyone know the update on this?  I am extremely bummed out that we can no longer use Virwox for cashouts.  It was super convenient to utilize the service since they put the money into your paypal right away.  Now it is back to waiting 5-7 days for a cashout JUST to reach paypal via Secondlife. 

I'm hoping SecondLIfe revises this.  It seems as though for whatever reason, the staff that processes payments is shorthanded or perhaps thier methods of doing so involved too many steps.  Now that Virwox is unavailable, I fear it is going to take that much longer. 

Any thoughts, has anyone heard anything more?

Thanks-

[Dresden Ceriano]

Are you kidding?  It's been discussed to death... search is your friend.

...Dres

[Evhalyn Serpente]

I will. I didn't realize it had been a big topic until scrolling through them (I'm not a big forum follower).  Thanks for the info.

[Cry Hawker]

Get used to it. I dont mean to be offensive but seriously: There is no way linden lab will make a 180 and reinvite third party exchanges into the business. Lindex is slow, clumsy and limited. And it will stay that way to the end.

[Phil Deakins]

Why is waiting 5-7 days for money to reach PayPal from LL so abhorrent to so many people? It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Hasn't anyone ever heard of the concept of planning in advance? For instance, if you really need the money one Tuesday, cash out the Tuesday before. It's incredibly simple.

I think it's improved now but not very long ago, if you wanted to pay a bill on time, from your bank account, you had to initiate the transfer several working days in advance, and an extra 2 days if the weekend got in the way. So why are some people so up in arms about having to do the same advance planning?

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Why is waiting 5-7 days for money to reach PayPal from LL so abhorrent to so many people? It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Hasn't anyone ever heard of the concept of planning in advance? For instance, if you really need the money one Tuesday, cash out the Tuesday before. It's incredibly simple.

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This !

while i understant fully that the new TOS changes are a pain for pp who cant use credit card or paypal.. it dont understand the moaning about the lil period for cashing out money.. its just a question about planification. Can be a pain at the first time, but then for the following paiement, it will be just the same... 

you said it, Phil, planification is the key...

[Hermione Lefevre]

I guess you never been on Marketplace, seen something you like and wanted to buy it...thats how money is made..from shoppers like me and others.

 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Hermione Lefevre wrote:

I guess you never been on Marketplace, seen something you like and wanted to buy it...thats how money is made..from shoppers like me and others.

 

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i dont understand ....

all i said is that the moaning about the period for cashing out is less legitimate than the one for pp who CANT buy l$.....

can you tell me what does this has to see with mp and willing to buy  from there...

as far as i know, the mp willings to buy is under the second category and for this, yes, i said its sad and pp should be able to buy their l$ without needing a credit card...so really i dont understand why you say this to me.

on top, i have a mp store so im well place to know and usually i prefer to use the mp as a catalogue but buy from inworld, but it happens to me for some kind of items to buy them from the market place..

again, i dont understand your repplie to me... maybe i havent phrased what i meant in the good way.. that s always possible, since english is not my native language... 

but if you havent understood me, then tell me what part and ill try to say it better.

to finish, i d like to add.. that i go often in RL stores, see something i like, want to buy, but cant buy bec cant afford it... this is frustrating, but with time, ive learnt its part of life... so yes... as you can see... i can understand it and pretty well...

[jwenting]

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Hermione Lefevre wrote:

I guess you never been on Marketplace, seen something you like and wanted to buy it...thats how money is made..from shoppers like me and others.

 

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And you can do that. Buying L$ from LL takes seconds, minutes at most if the servers are under high load. Might take longer if PayPal are in the middle, but that's through to no fault of LL.

I've never had a problem with that, get used to it.

the 3rd parties were shut down because of US government threats to hold LL legally liable for money laundering performed through those 3rd parties. If and when they can guarantee such doesn't take place, and want to bear the legal burden themselves, no doubt a way can be found to bring them back.

If they don't want to bear that burden, instead wanting to have LL shoulder it for them, that's to me at least enough indication that they're fully aware they're partners in criminal enterprises and have no interest in acting to prevent that.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Hermione Lefevre wrote:

I guess you never been on Marketplace, seen something you like and wanted to buy it...thats how money is made..from shoppers like me and others.

 

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What does this have to do with selling L$  through a TPE? You can buy L$ immediately from LL. No fuss no muss. If you are shopping on the MP using a CC you are foolish. LL charges more to buy that way than using $L.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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Hermione Lefevre wrote:

I guess you never been on Marketplace, seen something you like and wanted to buy it...thats how money is made..from shoppers like me and others.

 

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What does this have to do with selling L$  through a TPE? You can buy L$ immediately from LL. No fuss no muss. If you are shopping on the MP using a CC you are foolish. LL charges more to buy that way than using $L.

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Thanks Drake, im asking myself also...

Cashing out is selling l$ for getting the equivalent in RL money... if you have already the l$ on your account why the hell wanting to change them for rl money and then buy on the market place.. since you can buy everything you want there with l$ ?

ive reread my post and for me its pretty understandable.. so if im wrong in the way ive said it, i d like to be told and corrected then.

[Hermione Lefevre]

I was responding to posts that waiting 5 to seven days for the lindens being deposited on your account is no big deal.

I can very well plan m tier payments but like to spend spontanious too

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Hermione Lefevre wrote:

I was responding to posts that waiting 5 to seven days for the lindens being deposited on your account is no big deal.

I can very well plan m tier payments but like to spend spontanious too

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well you havent understood at all..

cashing out is not for getting your l$ on your account... when you use lindex for buying l$ you get them instantanely so you dont need any planification at all for this......

cashing out is for when you want to translate your l$ in rl money and for this, yes you have a 5 days period...

this has nothing to see with buying l$.....

[Phil Deakins]

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Hermione Lefevre wrote:

I was responding to posts that waiting 5 to seven days for the lindens being deposited on your account is no big deal.

I can very well plan m tier payments but like to spend spontanious too

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Then you misunderstood the post you were replying to. The post you replied to is about cashing out, which has nothing to do with paying in.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Hermione Lefevre wrote:

I was responding to posts that waiting 5 to seven days for the lindens being deposited on your account is no big deal.

I can very well plan m tier payments but like to spend spontanious too

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You spend in the MP with L$ that are inworld.. its the same freaking L$... however if you mean convert to USD or whatever currency then spend that on RL items spontaneously... you are SOL. My advice to you would be to always  cash out what ever L$ you have, so you always have RL $ to spend on what ever strikes your fancy.

[Evhalyn Serpente]

Why is it that whenever a question is asked: if others do not agree with the original poster, commenter's become argumentative?  What ever happened to passing helpful information in a kind/adult like manner without the underlying judgment.

 

Thanks for the response anyhow.  I know how to plan my income, thank you.  I just do not understand why it takes one company to do in 5 days what it takes another to do immediately.  When you are waiting on a payment in access of 500USD and 3 days become 6 and 6 days become 8 it makes planning a bit difficult.

 

I asked if anyone had more information on this, not for a financial advisor.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Evhalyn Serpente wrote:

Why is it that whenever a question is asked: if others do not agree with the original poster, commenter's become argumentative?  What ever happened to passing helpful information in a kind/adult like manner without the underlying judgment.

 

Thanks for the response anyhow.  I know how to plan my income, thank you.  I just do not understand why it takes one company to do in 5 days what it takes another to do immediately.  When you are waiting on a payment in access of 500USD and 3 days become 6 and 6 days become 8 it makes planning a bit difficult.

 

I asked if anyone had more information on this, not for a financial advisor.

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It is extremely rare that anyone from LL will post in the forums. Perhaps you sould file a ticket asking more and post the responce here..

[Madeliefste Oh]

What I understand from it, but only from hearing say, not from official sources, is that is has to do with fighting fraud.

Why these third party exchanges were able to pay so much faster, maybe because they were not responsible for fraud cases themselves since they were under LL's risk API.

[Deja Letov]

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

What I understand from it, but only from hearing say, not from official sources, is that is has to do with fighting fraud.

Why these third party exchanges were able to pay so much faster, maybe because they were not responsible for fraud cases themselves since they were under LL's risk API.

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I've never had anything take longer than 4 or 5 days with LL, but even that I feel is too long. There is an easy solution to automate this process, I'm not sure why they refuse to do it...even with HIGH security measures. It's a very simple job to do if you are a programmer.

I have heard they are using some sort of Mass Payout system I don't know if that's true or not, but ok let's say it is. Knowing paypal the way I do...I've worked with their API many times, I doubt very much they would take any longer than 24 hours. So I would still put the blame squarely on LL's slow manual process. Although...I have to say, I don't quite buy that they are sending out these mass payment files. If so...then why aren't the major exchanges doing it? Their volume had to have been just as high. And hey maybe they were and we just don't know it, but if they were how were they getting them sold immediately where LL takes 5 days. The whole thing just stinks of unorganized money hostage.

[Madeliefste Oh]

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Deja Letov wrote

Although...I have to say, I don't quite buy that they are sending out these mass payment files. If so...then why aren't the major exchanges doing it?

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Maybe they get a better deal at Paypal when it comes to transfer costs, when they do it in one mass payment, then when they are whole day long using the service for relatively small amounts?

Exchange services were basicly different. My guess is that those had more buyers then sellers. When Lindex has more buyers then sellers, LL just just 'prints' new L$ to keep the value stable.

But for an exchange service is the quicker they can buy cheap L$, the better it is for them, otherwise they have to buy them on Lindex themselves for marketprice to be able to deliver, and thus their profit will be much lower.

[Perrie Juran]

Before Linden Lab can send any one the cash for the Linden Dollars first they have to be sold on the Lindex.  A glance at the Market Data: Open Sell and Buy Orders on the Lindex (https://secondlife.com/my/lindex/buy.php) tells me that a lot of sellers are trying to get better rates than Market Rate. 

Right now there are open sell orders for L$158,970,024 at 247L per dollar. 

I usually try to get around $15L above Market Rate when I buy.  Market Rate is ~$240L right now.  If I was doing a Limit Buy right now I'd be looking to buy at around $255L. 

All those sellers are waiting for buyers and until their $L's are sold there technically is no cash to send them.  If Linden Lab sent them the cash before the sale, technically it would mean the Lindex was advancing them the cash against when the sale happens.  Remember, Linden Lab DOES NOT buy $Ls.

[Madeliefste Oh]

When you use Lindex you have to do with 3 x a waiting time. There is only one you can influence, and that is the one you are talking about. When you sell your L$ at 247 it can take some days depending on the volumn offered before you get your USD, when you sell at 248 you will have them in a few hours (and sometimes minutes).

Then once you have usd on your account, you can cash out to paypal. And that is the waiting time we were discussing. It takes 3 to 5 working days normally, before your money arrives on your paypal account. But sometimes for unknown reason it can suddenly take 10 days as well.

When you send your money from paypal to your own bank account, there is another waiting time, also a few days.

[Perrie Juran]

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

When you use Lindex you have to do with 3 x a waiting time. There is only one you can influence, and that is the one you are talking about. When you sell your L$ at 247 it can take some days depending on the volumn offered before you get your USD, when you sell at 248 you will have them in a few hours (and sometimes minutes).

Then once you have usd on your account, you can cash out to paypal. And that is the waiting time we were discussing. It takes 3 to 5 working days normally, before your money arrives on your paypal account. But sometimes for unknown reason it can suddenly take 10 days as well.

When you send your money from paypal to your own bank account, there is another waiting time, also a few days.

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I understand how all these delays can be a hassle and even seem unreasonable to people.

I'm in agreement that the process should be as simple and as streamlined as possible.  Much of what I have been posting on the subject has really been meant as a general response because I am seeing there are still a lot of people who have never thought the process through.  All they know is that they want their money and that they want it NOW. 

Personally speaking I can't point to any one place that a lot of what I have written is stated.  I'm just applying my business knowledge to what I know.

I can write a lot more on this but I've really been long winded as is. 

And again, I am not a Linden Lab Shill or Fan Boy before any one accuses me of that.  I absolutely agree LL should do a better job.  I'm just stating what is.

[Evhalyn Serpente]

Thanks for the information.  I am one of those who yes: want my money when they say I'll have it.  Not that it is highly relevant to the matter here: but someone mentioned them not having to wait beyond 4/5 days.  There have been several times where I've actually had to call LL to find out when payments were being made as I've waited in access of up to 13 /business days (this sadly, was around Christmas time when I needed the funds by xx date. I realize the holiday was probably why everything was extremly slower than usual then but I wish it were a cut and dry timing slot they gave you. 

If they have their reasons (which as to some of your posts and previous threads I can assume why it takes longer- Thanks for that) then fine but if they say 5-7 business days, I expect it in 5-7 business days. In RL if I know I get paid on Friday and my boss doesn't give me my check until that following Wednesday, I'd be just as upset by this as I am here.

Is it a huge deal Nah, I love Linden Labs and the platform in which they provide us. Like any business, I am sure they have string tightening to do here and there but I hope they realize that consistancy [to some of us] is very important in regards to the payout process.

[Daniel Voyager]

Latest update (15th May 2013)

VirWoX says, "Linden Lab has approached us with a potential solution that would allow us to serve our customers within the bounds of the updated Second Life Terms of Service." https://www.virwox.com/