how do i give feedback to second life?

[Attica Bekkers]

Hello I would like to provide customer feedback to secondlife, but cannot find any place to do this. I figured general forums is the best place to ask.

 

[Orca Flotta]

Strangely, no, it isn't. Although this here is the official SL forum, you'll never see any Lindens wading thru this mud. There are of course other ways to reach them, from personal IM to opening a jira and what have you. But why bother? They won't read your opinion anyway. And if they do all you'll get in return will be a number of more or less useless links to the SL wiki, TOS and their website. Everything to avoid direct contact with you.

Customer feedback is the last thing LL wants. :smileysad:

[Attica Bekkers]

But they need feeback, they have a niche market?  Nichemarkets are totally reliant on customer feedback ?

I dont think support or a jira is appropriate and Im pretty sure they sack lab employees who listen to conusmers so the last thing i would do is contact anyof them. Isnt there some kind of feedback form?

[Phil Deakins]

It depends what the feedback is. If it's positive, e.g. "SL is wonderful. You are doing an amazingly good job. Thank you!" then you could post it everywhere you can, and even IM individual employees. I'm sure they'd be very pleased to read it.

But if it's negative then LL doesn't want to know. Suggestions can go into the JIRA, of course.

On the whole, LL (the management at least) isn't interested in what users think.

[Attica Bekkers]

Its neither really i would just like to say what i want to see happen.

[Phil Deakins]

So it's a suggestion. That's what the JIRA is for, isn't it?

[Attica Bekkers]

no jira is for more specific suggestions, such as more privacy options. Its not really for giving feedback about the experience of second life.

[Phil Deakins]

I thought you meant a suggestion when you said that you want to tell them what you'd like to see happen.

[Porky Gorky]

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Attica Bekkers wrote:

Hello I would like to provide customer feedback to secondlife, but cannot find any place to do this. I figured general forums is the best place to ask.

 

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I am afraid that Linden Lab is no longer interested in hearing your feedback. In years gone by there were lots of avenues open for us to feedback to the lab, we had townhall meetings, inworld office hours, 2 way conversations on the forums plus others methods such as our comments on LL blogs, Jira Comments and even direct surveys and feedback requests from LL.

Every avenue that used to be open to us is now closed. It's obvious to anyone who is paying attention that LL no longer wants  to talk to us, receive feedback from us or indeed interact with us directly in any way, shape or form. A massive wall of silence has been deliberately constructed in recent years and the end result is the near complete breakdown in communication that currently exists today between LL and their customer base. The only avenues of communication that remain open to us is telephone billing support, live chat for premium members and AR system for everyone. I think that is it. So basically just the bare minimum amount of communication required to troubleshoot and problem solve customer issues to keep the Benjamins flowing in.

If you want a LL employee to read your feedback and possibly respond to you then your best option right now is to leave the SL domain and post your feedback either on the SLUniverse forums or somewhere like NWN comments or alternatively send a message to a Linden on twitter. This will give you a very small chance of getting your message read, but it's the best we have right now.

 

ETA - , I bet a Linden will post in this thread now just to prove me wrong :matte-motes-big-grin:

[Phil Deakins]

You can remove live chat from your short list, Porky. Live chat is manned by outside people. It's not Linden Lab.

[Porky Gorky]

Oh yeah, thanks Phil.

I said in my previous post that LL made a conscious decision to destroy communication but that is obviously an assumption.

I wonder if LL management made a conscious decision to severely limit Linden/customer communication, and then sent that instruction out to it's employees to be put into action?

Or if instead the breakdown in communication just happened naturally over time, department by department as a response to all the negativity directed at the Lindens by their customers.

Either way it's totally unacceptable, yet I still choose to accept it and fund the company. It's like they know that there is a core userbase that is either addicted to using SL or addicted to the money they generate from it. So no matter how many times they slap us in the face with a trout we will always come back for more.

[Phil Deakins]

LL did make a concious decision to stop communicating with users, Porky. A few years ago, the CEO told one department leader that he wanted more blogs from her. Not long afterwards, they gagged the Lindens. They are always concious decisions.

The gags may have partly due to Lindens taking so much flak that they changed their names to avoid more flak. I.e. some Lindens have stayed employed but changed their names because of the flak they were taking. To users, it looked like Lindens had left, of course.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

You could always start a thread over at SLU. Maybe Rodvik will deign to make an appearance.

Don't count on it, though.

[Porky Gorky]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

LL did make a concious decision to stop communicating with users, Porky. A few years ago, the CEO told one department leader that he wanted more blogs from her. Not long afterwards, they gagged the Lindens. They are always concious decisions.

 

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Yeah, all the little signs point to it being a conscious decision. I question it though because it seems like such a poor business decision to make, both in terms of supporting the customer base as well as understanding what the customer base wants from the product and delivering that. Burying their heads in the sand can only result in disaster.

Whoever made that decision should definitely be put into the top 10 of "what killed SL" when fat lady sings.

[Coby Foden]

They got tired of our feedback because...

[Porky Gorky]

Maybe we should try and shove some feedback down LL throats and make them listen to us.

Here is what I propose.

1. Create a thread on the forums and invite everyone to post their sensible and constructive and un-abusive feedback to LL

2. Once the thread grows we start bombarding LL Twitter accounts with links to the thread on the forums. This can be an ongoing daily occurrence with as many people as possible doing it.

3 If we have not got any response to step 2 by the time the thread is nearly done, then someone copies all the sensible feedback into a document and groups it into related category's, they then pass it back out to some of us forum users. A whole bunch of us can then either fax, email, snail mail post or hand deliver lots of copies of the feedback to LL's head quarters in Battery St. along with an invitation to them to respond to us on their own forums.

Could be a pointless exercise. Could be the catalyst that forces a Linden Lab spokesperson onto the forums to address our issues.

Do you people think this is worth the effort?

[Kenbro Utu]

Or create an outside forum for the same, that way they can't ban all the participants from this forum. 

[Porky Gorky]

Nah I don't think they will ban us from these forums as long as we don't harass them on twitter too much. Maybe each of us send one tweet a day to a different Linden each day kindly inviting them to visit our thread and respond. Can we contact them on Facebook or other social media sites too? I can't be bothered with that sort of stuff so have no idea.;

[Perrie Juran]

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Porky Gorky wrote:

Maybe we should try and shove some feedback down LL throats and make them listen to us.

Here is what I propose.

1. Create a thread on the forums and invite everyone to post their sensible and constructive and un-abusive feedback to LL

2. Once the thread grows we start bombarding LL Twitter accounts with links to the thread on the forums. This can be an ongoing daily occurrence with as many people as possible doing it.

3 If we have not got any response to step 2 by the time the thread is nearly done, then someone copies all the sensible feedback into a document and groups it into related category's, they then pass it back out to some of us forum users. A whole bunch of us can then either fax, email, snail mail post or hand deliver lots of copies of the feedback to LL's head quarters in Battery St. along with an invitation to them to respond to us 

on their own

forums.

Could be a pointless exercise. Could be the catalyst that forces a Linden Lab spokesperson onto the forums to address our issues.

Do you people think this is worth the effort?

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Do you really think we'd say anything that they dont already know?

Seriously

[Knowl Paine]

If you have purchased the optional Premium Membership, you may contact Second Life Support, at any time, for any reason. Support will advise you, as to how to proceed.

Residents who have decided to not purchase the additional Membership options, may also contact Support at any time, however, your options will be limited; as will be the response from Support.

If you have specific feedback, specifically regarding this Forum, you may post here:

 

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Forums-Feedback/bd-p/forums_feedback

 

 

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/How-to-contact-customer-support/ta-p/739385

 

 

[Porky Gorky]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Do you really think we'd say anything that they dont already know?

Seriously

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I do.

LL are so detached from the current userbase that they cannot fully appreciate what issues affect people on a day to day basis. Even if they were astute enough to know about every important issue that currently affected their customers (despite the lack of communication options) they still have no way of knowing which issues are most important to the community as a whole, or at least the cross section that use the forums. If they had this knowledge then they could focus and prioritise their time and efforts into facilitating the needs of the users, rather than LL just using their own judgment with little to no feedback from the community. 

This is evidenced by the work CTL has carried out in recent years, i.e.. Focusing on fixes and improvements that merchants care little for and failing to address the core issues that are at the top of most merchants fix wish list. Their current level of communication is woefully inadequate when compared to the dialogue that used to exist between us via the inworld meetings and the roundtable forums and their progress in fixing the issues that matter most to merchants has clearly suffered as a result.

The few user groups that are left in SL do still work and are still active but they are frequented by a very small number of hardcore users and they tend not to address the day to day issues that effect the average SL user, most SL users probably don't even know the user groups exist.

Lets assume you are right, and we cannot tell LL anything they don't already know. What we can hope for is some sort of response from them regarding the issues that are most important to the majority of people. An acknowledgement from them that they hear what we are saying and a plan of action to address a few of the o/s issues that matter most to people is important in building and restoring customer confidence in a platform that many people invest real money in, hundreds, sometimes thousands of USD. I think it is the least that LL can do in return for our continued custom. 

Also, as my idea is for a feedback thread, there is room for positive feedback too. We have a chance to tell LL what they are doing right and what we want to see more of.  More positive feedback can only be a good thing from LL's perspective and it could ultimately benefit us too.

So I understand your skepticism, I am skeptical too which is why I asked you guys if you thought it was a waste of time. But it seems like we have been sat around on our backsides for far too long doing nothing and just accepting this bum deal. My thinking is that a bit of proactive action on our part may inspire some proactive communication on LL's part and that if enough people shout loud enough it might inspire them to reply.

[161488303349]

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Coby Foden wrote:

They got tired of our feedback because...

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can blame bad weather for just about everything these days (:

[Ciaran Laval]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Do you really think we'd say anything that they dont already know?

Seriously

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Without any shadow of a doubt. LL have lost that loving feeling when it comes to what the community think.

[Attica Bekkers]

thanks knowl I contacted live chat before i made the thread:) They dont pass on customer feedback. They handled me pretty well, polite and actually helped, but they just dont have that job.

Porky no I dont think  its worth it.  I know this is going to sound awful but. I dont think we should make heroic efforts to contact the lab. that is the labs job, not ours. I think some kind of suggestion box thread would be a great idea, but if the lab sees it or not is up to them.

[Kenbro Utu]

Just had to do it...