TOS Adult Sim question

Autumn Jannings · January 24, 2013

Hi and Thank you for any help offered.

Have a new Sim opening soon. We set it to Adult and put in rules must be over 18. Do we need to do anything else to ensure only adults enter sim?

Also had a few visitors on sim to get a pre-opening look over the build before opening. One avatar made us nervous so we goggled the person. It shows the avatar owner as underage. So I sent the person an IM stating per ToS if they are not over 18 and enter an Adult sim they are voilating Second Life TOS. Was this the right thing to do? I can't really prove the person is over or under age... Any suggestions to handling this would be great. Before we open officially.

valerie Inshan · January 24, 2013

You could add a restriction to allow residents with payment info on file only. Teens do'nt have a credit card, at least where I live!

Syo Emerald · January 24, 2013

valerie Inshan wrote:

You could add a restriction to allow residents with payment info on file only. Teens do'nt have a credit card, at least where I live!

How silly. Thanks for supporting the idea to force US standarts on the rest of the world.

The ToS do not require any of this. Its LL job to verify age, not yours. You can't check if someone is an adult or not.

valerie Inshan · January 24, 2013

Syo Emerald wrote:

valerie Inshan wrote:

You could add a restriction to allow residents with payment info on file only. Teens do'nt have a credit card, at least where I live!

How silly. Thanks for supporting the idea to force US standarts on the rest of the world.

The ToS do not require any of this. Its LL job to verify age, not yours. You can't check if someone is an adult or not.

Thank you very much for calling me silly. Really appreciated. As for forcing US standards, I am French talking about French standards, FYI.

Syo Emerald · January 24, 2013

Yes, I call it silly to assume that this is a great idea to keep teens out. Its not a standart to have a credit card everywhere and I'm pretty sure you keep more people out of the sim that are adults than you keep teens outside with this regulation. On top of it carrying on the false information that any further action is required when owning an adult region.

I don't call you silly as a person in general, I call this regulation silly.

Darren Scorpio · January 24, 2013

Autumn Jannings wrote:

Hi and Thank you for any help offered.

Have a new Sim opening soon. We set it to Adult and put in rules must be over 18. Do we need to do anything else to ensure only adults enter sim?

Also had a few visitors on sim to get a

pre-opening

look over the build before opening.

One avatar made us nervous so we goggled the person.

It shows the avatar owner as underage.

So I sent the person an IM stating per ToS if they are not over 18 and enter an Adult sim they are voilating Second Life TOS. Was this the right thing to do?

I can't really prove the person is over or under age

... Any suggestions to handling this would be great. Before we open officially.

Very odd. Didn't know Google was now publishing SL users' RL age.

You're right, you CAN'T prove the person is under age unless they clearly tell you so all you are doing is speculating. It is not your duty to verify people's age it's Linden Lab's job. If your sim region is "Adult" then you have done all you are required to do, it is implied that all people who enter your sim have told LL that they are over the age of 18.

Perrie Juran · January 24, 2013

Autumn Jannings wrote:

Hi and Thank you for any help offered.

Have a new Sim opening soon. We set it to Adult and put in rules must be over 18. Do we need to do anything else to ensure only adults enter sim?

Also had a few visitors on sim to get a

pre-opening

look over the build before opening. One avatar made us nervous so we goggled the person. It shows the avatar owner as underage. So I sent the person an IM stating per ToS if they are not over 18 and enter an Adult sim they are voilating Second Life TOS. Was this the right thing to do? I can't really prove the person is over or under age... Any suggestions to handling this would be great. Before we open officially.

You are kind of going in circles here. Nothing wrong with reiterating in your SIM rules that you comply with the TOS about RL Minors accessing Adult content. And as a SIM owner, or owning any parcel for that matter, you have the right to decide who may or may not enter your property.

Maybe Googling this Ava reinforced your suspicion that this individual was a minor but even that may not be absolute proof.

Technically speaking, you don't have to do anything to ensure that adults only enter your SIM. In fact there is actually nothing you can do. When people register for SL they enter a birth date and Linden Lab accepts that at face value. Access to Adult Content is based on this. So unless you KNOWINGLY allow a Minor onto your SIM, which could be very hard to prove, the responsibility lays with Linden Lab, not you.

Even requiring POF is not 100% fool proof. Occasionally parents do allow their kids to use their credit cards. But it does add another layer of protection for you.

All these people who act like there are all these under 18 teenagers accessing Adult content in SL just show me that they have no idea about how the huge majority of teens think and feel about engaging with Adults in cyber sexual activities. Even for sexually active teens, for the vast majority, sexual activity with an adult is nothing short of a HUGE EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

Autumn Jannings · January 24, 2013

Thank you,

Trying to be responsible and make sure doing all we can. I know I can't verify real ages. So will leave it up to Linden and make sure I am clear in rules. Wish there was a way to make sure everyone got rules and have to hit accept to remain in sim longer than say 15 minutes... hehe oh well.

As for the goggle thing... Second life avatar names can not be researched only real life ones.

Coby Foden · January 24, 2013

Darren Scorpio wrote:

Very odd. Didn't know Google was now publishing SL users' RL age.

/me panics, everybody will now know my real age!

:smileytongue:

Darren Scorpio · January 24, 2013

Autumn Jannings wrote:

Thank you,

Trying to be responsible and make sure doing all we can. I know I can't verify real ages. So will leave it up to Linden and make sure I am clear in rules. Wish there was a way to make sure everyone got rules and have to hit accept to remain in sim longer than say 15 minutes... hehe oh well.

As for the goggle thing... Second life avatar names can not be researched only real life ones.

My SL name is Darren Scorpio, I am sure there are a lot of Darren's out there in the real world if you Google the name. So how do you decide what the person's RL name is? Did they specifically tell you it? Even if they did tell you I can guarantee you that there are millions of people with similar names. The point I am trying to make is that "Googling" an avatar because you have certain suspicions is just a bit too paranoid. You have done ALL you are required to do, try not to be too paranoish and enjoy your new sim and SL and have fun!

Autumn Jannings · January 24, 2013

Again thank you for your replies.

The google part of this post had nothing to do with the question. And some of you are assuming I google everyone. Was just explaining how I knew one person was underage. Lesson learned to not explain too much in posts.

But again I am glad to know I have done all I can in making sure out SL life is safe as can be. The sim is not a sex play sim but a rp one.

Syo Emerald · January 24, 2013

Autumn Jannings wrote:

Again thank you for your replies.

The google part of this post had nothing to do with the question. And some of you are assuming I google everyone. Was just explaining how I knew one person was underage. Lesson learned to not explain too much in posts.

But again I am glad to know I have done all I can in making sure out SL life is safe as can be. The sim is not a sex play sim but a rp one.

Autumn, we just all wonder how a Google search can bring up any information which could give hints if a person is underage or not. If I google "Syo Emerald" I find a lot stuff, but none that gives out RL information. We are just curious on how you think you have found out that someone is underage by google his/her avatar name.

Coby Foden · January 24, 2013

valerie Inshan wrote:

You could add a restriction to allow residents with payment info on file only.

Oh please no! :smileysurprised: My alt has no payment info on file.

Sometimes she gets into a wild mood and wants go exploring even some "wild" places. :smileywink: :smileyvery-happy:

valerie Inshan · January 24, 2013

Coby Foden wrote:

valerie Inshan wrote:

You could add a restriction to allow residents with payment info on file only.

Oh please no! :smileysurprised: My alt has no payment info on file.

Sometimes she gets into a wild mood and wants go exploring even some "wild" places. :smileywink: :smileyvery-happy:

Oops! I forgot all these poor naughty alts wanting to have fun incognito!

Melita Magic · January 24, 2013

You have done what you can do.

Teens can use a 'borrowed' credit card or ID to register as an adult. On the other hand many real adults do not wish to do either of those things and have no ID or payment on file.

(I can't remember now. Can people with no ID or payment on file access adult land at all?)

You have covered yourself legally, the same way LL has done.

That is really all you can do. Let's face it - no one knows who anyone really is online behind the computer screen; (not even with webcam, just search for the video chat pranks on you tube) so you do what you can. Anyone running any type of adult service online has to understand that there is a good chance a real life minor or even child would access it at some point.

Personally if I were running an adult sim I would do what I could under the TOS, but that would not include restricting it to PIOF (Payment information on file) or those who signed up with the oppressive "Aristotle" ID method to "verify age in real life." Pfft. Teens can get around that, and meanwhile, you would be restricting adults who want to sample your wares.

I don't run any adult sims and do not plan to, but that's how I'd do it. But it is your sim; it's your choice.

Melita Magic · January 24, 2013

Autumn Jannings wrote:

Lesson learned to not explain too much in posts.

That is a good lesson to learn for this forum. Some would have you explain yourself until doomsday. It's a trap to fall into; people either accept your opinions or they do not. They either believe your story the first time, or they do not. I'm not talking about clarifying a statement, but the 'explain yourself' accusatory stance. And they often don't know they are doing it.

Qie Niangao · January 24, 2013

Caveat: I Am Not A Lawyer.

Nonetheless, I am not so sure that "doing all we can do" is a prudent course of action. It seems to me that this goes some way towards accepting responsibility for access by minors to your adult content, above and beyond the responsibility that Linden Lab assumes with whatever measures it puts in place and whatever terms it includes in its ToS.

Personally, I'd rather any liability be solely LL's, so I just scrupulously stick to the ToS on such matters. No adult content outside Adult sims, and let pervy little Johnny's mommy sue the Lab, not me.

Melita Magic · January 24, 2013

That's what I meant by all we can do. Under the TOS.

I wouldn't even use PIOF or ID only though. So I guess I don't even say 'do all you can do under TOS.'

They should legally cover themselves the same way LL does. But the issue of whether or not to use PIOF and ID restrictions has always been a muddled one. But then LL's entire Zindra policy is too, in my opinion.

Amethyst Jetaime · January 24, 2013

Syo Emerald wrote:

valerie Inshan wrote:

You could add a restriction to allow residents with payment info on file only. Teens do'nt have a credit card, at least where I live!

How silly. Thanks for supporting the idea to force US standarts on the rest of the world.

The ToS do not require any of this. Its LL job to verify age, not yours. You can't check if someone is an adult or not.

Why do you think this is a US standard? I live in the US and can tell you that teens can get credit cards on their own names with their parents consent. Some companies actually have credit and debit card programs designed specifically for teens to help their parents to teach them about budgeting and managing credit.

Before you make statements about "US standards", you may want to check you facts first.

solstyse · January 25, 2013

Payment info is a bad idea. Honestly, if I see that on a sim, or a parcel, then my immdeiate response is "why the ____ do you care?" and I instantly get paranoid that the restriction is there because you want only people who are worth scamming on your land.

you're safe, since LL did the verification for you. If you want to be extra careful then you can qote tos in your rules, and restrict or ban child avatars.

LepreKhaun · January 25, 2013

I believe the concern is misplaced here (in the USofA).

Much more important would be any explicit depictions, video or pictures, that you might have within your Sim Not cartoon images mind you, but that of real people doing the deed. In that case, you are required to have records of the proof of age of all the participants portrayed and have the contact information of the Custodian of Records prominently displayed. Getting caught without that can lead to serious legal problems. (Google "Title 18, Section 2257").

Regardless, since the mid-90's, the best advice to anyone wishing to foray into any aspect of the adult internet market is to have an attorney on retainer and have them looking over your shoulder all the way. Legal opinioins on forums aren't worth the paper they're written on - including this one .

madman626 Fall · January 25, 2013

Because its there land and do has they see fit,,, BTW its a joke either way LL verification is a big dang joke ,,, just like it a joke for a sim to have it up ,, but there land and ppl are free do so for ppl that don't like it don't go there that easy but for you say why you care ,right back at you they could say,, there land there rules .

Syo Emerald · January 25, 2013

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Syo Emerald wrote:

valerie Inshan wrote:

You could add a restriction to allow residents with payment info on file only. Teens do'nt have a credit card, at least where I live!

How silly. Thanks for supporting the idea to force US standarts on the rest of the world.

The ToS do not require any of this. Its LL job to verify age, not yours. You can't check if someone is an adult or not.

Why do you think this is a US standard? I live in the US and can tell you that teens can get credit cards on their own names with their parents consent. Some companies actually have credit and debit card programs designed specifically for teens to help their parents to teach them about budgeting and managing credit.

Before you make statements about "US standards", you may want to check you facts first.

Could you at least see the context in which I wrote this? You are supporting my text instead of saying anything against it.

US Standart = everyone has at least one credit card and its common to use it everywhere. And you just added that teens have them too.

My statement was about other countries, where it is NOT common that everyone runs around with a credit card and uses them on everything.

Autumn Jannings · January 25, 2013

LepreKhaun wrote:

I believe the concern is misplaced here

(in the USofA).

Much more important would be any explicit depictions, video or pictures, that you might have within your Sim Not cartoon images mind you, but that of real people doing the deed. In that case, you are required to have records of the proof of age of all the participants portrayed and have the contact information of the

Custodian of Records

prominently displayed. Getting caught without that can lead to serious legal problems. (Google "

Title 18, Section 2257").

Regardless, since the mid-90's, the best advice to anyone wishing to foray into any aspect of the adult internet market is to have an attorney on retainer and have them looking over your shoulder all the way. Legal opinioins on forums aren't worth the paper they're written on - including this one

.

Well in the US we generally tend to try and cover the eyes of our children to even semi nude cartoons... Soooo yeah. BTW I love your name.

As my question has been answered and the topic highjacked I will bid you all adieu... or BYE BYE

Thank you again for the replies, I feel alot better and even understand more..

Amethyst Jetaime · January 27, 2013