Capping IMs... a rant, and a question

[Trinity Yazimoto]

notecards are included in the 25 ims/items allowance that SL should normally send to our mailbox if we choosed this option. Over 25, whatever is nc or not, they are not sent anymore to your mailbox neither in your inventory. "When a Resident is offline, up to 25 messages will be stored and delivered at the next login. This limit includes inventory offers, group notices, group invitation and IMs. All messages above this limit will becapped and not delivered." (sl wiki). so since notecards are inventory offers, i guess they are capped aswell, if you reach the 25 messages or whatever else sent to you when you are offline. And well,depending the resident, SL seems to put a different meaning to "25", since some can recieve more and some others less. 

[Darrius Gothly]

I use Firestorm .. the latest release version .. and I've been pleasantly surprised a few times when the Notecard appeared in the Recent Items tab well past the point where my IMs were capped. It didn't give me the usual "Accept/Decline" dialog box, and it did take a few minutes after logging in, but the Notecards did show up there.

I have to believe though that this is a Server function and not related to the Viewer. So if you run any other Viewer and someone gives you a Notecard that arrives after your IMs are capped, switch to the Recent Items tab and wait for a bit. You might also be pleasantly surprised.

PS: I have "Auto Accept" turned on for Notecards .. I think.

[Tari Landar]

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

notecards are included in the 25 ims/items allowance that SL should normally send to our mailbox if we choosed this option. Over 25, whatever is nc or not, they are not sent anymore to your mailbox neither in your inventory. "

When a Resident is offline, up to 25 messages will be stored and delivered at the next login.

This limit includes 

inventory

 offers, 

group

 notices, group invitation and IMs. All messages above this limit will becapped and not delivered.

" 

(sl wiki). so since notecards are inventory offers, i guess they are capped aswell, if you reach the 25 messages or whatever else sent to you when you are offline. And well,depending the resident, SL seems to put a different meaning to "25", since some can recieve more and some others less. 

---

The cap is terrible it always has been and it's been a thorn in the side of people for a very long time-as long as I can remember anyway. Notecards aren't included in items that would be sent to your email box, because they're actual inventory offers, so they couldn't be sent out of world (not the way LL has things set up) but they are definitely included in the cap limit. It's awful, or can be anyway. I too wish there were a way to have them sent, or their contents sent, in an email. I should say, I wish there were a way that LL would implement. I am sure some of the geniuses here could figure it out. They're pretty smart cookies around here.

I know some people who seem to get past that 25cap too, and others who don't seem to ever meet 25 but still cap. For the most part I think I cap right around 25 usually. It's hard to tell sometimes though. I wish LL would raise the limit higher. 25 isn't nearly enough. Even with the IM to email option on, that cap limit-since it's not just messages but really everything, is too low.

[Ciaran Laval]

The notification gets capped, the delivery of the notecard itself doesn't appear to be, as Darrius points out, they do seem to still get delivered.

[Deja Letov]

---

Tari Landar wrote:

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Deja Letov wrote:

I can't answer your question as to why someone wouldn't have this turned off but I can tell you that the delivery of capped IM's fails ALL THE TIME. Like constantly. A few of the merchants here awhile back were testing trying to figure out what was going on and I know some in fact were receiving all offline messages up until the point of the cap and then they stopped. This is a huge problem and while it may be frustrating as a customer, it's just as frustrating with a merchant too. But I wouldn't get all upset and claim to not believe merchants if they say it's happening because we've talked about it alot on this forum and it happens quite a lot more than people think and we've been complainting about it for a long time.

---

Oh I know it does fail, I won't discount that. There are also times it seems to act up worse than others, with no rhyme or reason. It may not happen to me as much, but I know it happens to others, I've seen it. But some people claim it happens way too often for it to be believable(like, thye only miss any negative communication, but they manage seeing all the positive, lol I've seen people pull that one in the past). Me, I like to send NC and IM, just in case, unless a creator has a specific preference(I check profiles). If the first one goes ignored, and I see the creator has been on, I'll try again. When this happens days in a row...that's the point I start to not believe someone when they say they got NONE of the communication. That's not likely, not even in sl, lol. Especially after sending a NC and getting the "accepted" message(which rarely works as it is, and only typically when you're on the same sim, but does still happen outside of that instance, rarely). I find it hard to believe someone can contact someone for days, and that person not receive one of the bits of communication. Impossible? Absolutely not, but definitely not as likely as some seem to think.

I get upset at merchants also when they blame their customers for the fact that they didn't get the communication too. That just rubs me the wrong way, and is a personal peeve. I do my best to never blame my customers (rl or sl) for anything, even if it may actually be their fault. For me, that's just part of good business though.

 

---

I do agree, I don't see why merchants would get upset at customers. It' s not anyone's fault, I see no reason to get upset at anyone.

However, at only missing negative communication...think about it, when did you ever try to contact a merchant multiple times over positive things? Only the negative stuff is going to show because that's mainly what people are trying to get in touch with them over. And it could be that they haven't logged in for days, if your messages cap on monday and offline to email fails...it will stay that way until you login again. So if someone is offline for 3 or 4 days, and they can the first day, they also miss everything on day 2,3 and 4. I'm not saying this happened exactly, I'm just playing devils advocate. I tend to sign on at least once a day, usually, so it hasn't been a huge issue to me. I also hired an assistant with an offline/online indicator so I run into this less. But there was a period of time, when I was missing several notecards and IMs from people. I know it's hard to believe, and when youre the person wanting answers it's frustrating as hell but I'd try not to get too upset because you just don't know what's going on and as crazy as it seems it just might be true.

 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

oh i use also last version of Firestorm. I even asked in the firestorm support group. All they can say its that its not a non related viewer issue. Its related to SL servers. 

So well, i understand the limit btw. i d just like this limit is same for everyone in reality. But its the way SL goes : wobbly. I would already be happy if my SL mailbox delivery would have been the promised 25. But its not.

i would glady pay for a feature that increase my SL mailbox delivery, btw. But well... not on the menu for now :smileyfrustrated:

[Tari Landar]

---

Deja Letov wrote:

---

---

I do agree, I don't see why merchants would get upset at customers. It' s not anyone's fault, I see no reason to get upset at anyone.

However, at only missing negative communication...think about it, when did you ever try to contact a merchant multiple times over positive things? Only the negative stuff is going to show because that's mainly what people are trying to get in touch with them over. And it could be that they haven't logged in for days, if your messages cap on monday and offline to email fails...it will stay that way until you login again. So if someone is offline for 3 or 4 days, and they can the first day, they also miss everything on day 2,3 and 4. I'm not saying this happened exactly, I'm just playing devils advocate. I tend to sign on at least once a day, usually, so it hasn't been a huge issue to me. I also hired an assistant with an offline/online indicator so I run into this less. But there was a period of time, when I was missing several notecards and IMs from people. I know it's hard to believe, and when youre the person wanting answers it's frustrating as hell but I'd try not to get too upset because you just don't know what's going on and as crazy as it seems it just might be true.

 

---

I completely understand what you're saying. Actually under normal circumstances I wouldn't be upset at all after not receiving communication back from someone, even if it's important. Especially since I know there is the cap, always a chance offlines don't get sent. Of course the biggest reason of all would be that people have real lives, those always come first. Not everyone will be online all the time, or even every day. I completely understand that. There have been times I've been away a few days, few weeks, even a few months. So when that's the case, that a person hasn't been online, I might wonder where they are/what's up, but I wouldn't worry, or get upset. I might worry about them, but not about whatever issue it is I have.

When they are online, especially daily, that's when I start to wonder what's really up. Repeatedly ignoring communication, and we've got a problem. Well I have a problem. I actually wasn't frustrated at all until I finally got the chance to speak with them. But that frustration wasn't with the lack of communication so much as it was the actual communication once it came(the other point of my original rant, lol). They kind of blended together I think, unintentionally as they really are two separate issues.

I probably am the only odd ball that would im someome more than once to send praise, not that I have just wouldn't put it past me, haha. I'd probably piss someone off doing it too, lol. But I'm also the odd ball that will happily wait months or however long needed for you to fix something, if you need me to in most cases. As long as I don't feel you're intentionally ignoring me. I do take issue with that-just a personal beef of mine I'll have to get over. We've all got them, eh?

[Sassy Romano]

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

hey ! Are you kidding ?

SL cap every ims or group notices after 25 sent. this mean that if you have

a total

of 25 ims AND group notices sent to you after you logged off, you wont recieve anything in your email box.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Instant_Message

. (

When a Resident is offline, up to 25 messages will be stored and delivered at the next login. This limit includes 

inventory

 offers, 

group

 notices, group invitation and IMs. All messages above this limit will becapped and not delivered.)

.This mean also, that after 25 nc sent when offline, we cant get anymore.

This is the official SL version.

---

STOP.

Let me kill this misinformation straight away.

IM's, group notices, inventory offers

FROM SCRIPTED OBJECTS

cap at 25.  Subsequent ones will not be delivered INWORLD.

If you have IM's to email set, then YES YES YES, IM's will then continue to be sent to email after the cap of 25 whether they originate from an avatar or an object.

Furthermore,

AVATAR TO AVATAR

inventory offers such as notecards, objects etc. WILL be stored until login.

Also, yes I do believe that some merchants don't understand what i've just stated and know to be true from daily experience so yes I do believe that some merchants are just pig headed about how they deal with their customers.

For those who are only using a single email account, set up filters and arrange your inbox.  If the excuse of "but I might miss it in a folder" crops up next, response is "then you're not taking your customers seriously".

My preferred method is IM's ALWAYS.  I do state this if forced to write a notecard to a merchant, that I want the return response in the form of an IM and NOT a notecard, because it's more efficient, I get them offline, they aren't affected by any cap.

So lets be clear, IM's to email DO continue past the 25 message cap, they are not dropped.

(I tried very hard to stay out of this thread, very hard)

 

[Rya Nitely]

---

Sassy Romano wrote:

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

hey ! Are you kidding ?

SL cap every ims or group notices after 25 sent. this mean that if you have

a total

of 25 ims AND group notices sent to you after you logged off, you wont recieve anything in your email box.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Instant_Message

. (

When a Resident is offline, up to 25 messages will be stored and delivered at the next login. This limit includes 

inventory

 offers, 

group

 notices, group invitation and IMs. All messages above this limit will becapped and not delivered.)

.This mean also, that after 25 nc sent when offline, we cant get anymore.

This is the official SL version.

---

STOP.

Let me kill this misinformation straight away.

IM's, group notices, inventory offers

FROM SCRIPTED OBJECTS

cap at 25.  Subsequent ones will not be delivered INWORLD.

If you have IM's to email set, then YES YES YES, IM's will then continue to be sent to email after the cap of 25 whether they originate from an avatar or an object.

Furthermore,

AVATAR TO AVATAR

inventory offers such as notecards, objects etc. WILL be stored until login.

Also, yes I do believe that some merchants don't understand what i've just stated and know to be true from daily experience so yes I do believe that some merchants are just pig headed about how they deal with their customers.

For those who are only using a single email account, set up filters and arrange your inbox.  If the excuse of "but I might miss it in a folder" crops up next, response is "then you're not taking your customers seriously".

My preferred method is IM's ALWAYS.  I do state this if forced to write a notecard to a merchant, that I want the return response in the form of an IM and NOT a notecard, because it's more efficient, I get them offline, they aren't affected by any cap.

So lets be clear, IM's to email DO continue past the 25 message cap, they are not dropped.

(I tried very hard to stay out of this thread, very hard)

 

---

Well said!

I don't know why you tried hard to stay out of the thread when it really needed this type of input.

[Sassy Romano]

---

Rya Nitely wrote:

Well said!

I don't know why you tried hard to stay out of the thread when it really needed this type of input.

---

Because it's something i'm passionate about and if you don't take my soapbox away, i'll never get off!

[Pamela Galli]

As far as I am concerned you cannot have too big a crusade for IMs over notecards. I have done everything I can think of and am ignored.  I had a pic of my avi holding a sign that said No Notecards Please. I have a group called No Notecards Please, so it would appear in my groups list. In my autoresponses and vacation response. 

 

The one advantage to notecards is that yes, you do not get a notecard saying "Hi" or "Contact me when you are online". 

 

I think the problem is that ppl do not understand that business communication in SL is text. My avi does not need to be there in real time as if we were having a phone conversation. Nooo -- it is like texting or email -- leave a message and I will answer. We do not need to be online at the same time for you to leave a message or me to answer. But that is a different rant.

[Paul Hexem]

I'm lucky to make one sale a month, and I still have ims go to email. Merchants that don't and don't have a solid system/hours in place are idiots and fail at customer service.

 

And anyone that believes 25 is the limit to emails is almost as dumb, and doesn't use it despite lies to the contrary.

[Deja Letov]

Sassy that was the perfect explanation of how it works! But...it still doesn't help those of us who are affected when the system jacks up and stops sending the offline emails. I get it every now and then where a group of people all at once will say they sent me an IM and I've truly not received it. I'll get a whole bunch in a row like group notices, IMs etc that come to my email then all of a sudden they just stop. And they won't start back up until I login again. It doesn't happen all the time, at least I hope it doesnt, I only notice when someone IM's me about it. I just wish they would fix it, because I prefer the IM's to email so I can simply reply to them via email while I am offline. it's so much more convenient...and then I don't get into trouble at my real life job.

[Sassy Romano]

I know, there are occassions when it happens or when the "send to email" gets unchecked (it used to happen when swapping to the LL viewer from others I found) but I just wanted to dispell the misinformation that everything caps at 25 and thus nothing else goes to email.

That's not the case and never has been.

RL post gets lost, RL phone calls don't always get through, there's no difference in the few failures in SL failing to deliver but i'm all for making it easy for the customer and easy for me as far as possible and by far, the most sensible has to be IM's to email for anyone.

I'm going to get on my grumpy step now and ask if anyone that asks for notecards also asks RL phone callers or email senders to send a postcard in the mail instead?

*hops off the grumpy step*

[Toysoldier Thor]

thanks to this thread, it poked at me why over the past several weeks I have not been getting any offline IMs or notices sent to me when I used to.  I went to my CONTACT page on the main secondlife.com site to re-confirm my email address.  I noticed they changed the page to now ask for your email address AND to confirm you want to receive offline IMs AND now they ask if you want to provide LL your RL contact information.

Thankfully they kept the two sections separate so I could re-engage my offline IMs without my rl contact info.

Now I am finally getting my IMs offline again.

[Ciaran Laval]

---

Sassy Romano wrote:

 

I'm going to get on my grumpy step now and ask if anyone that asks for notecards also asks RL phone callers or email senders to send a postcard in the mail instead?

*hops off the grumpy step*

---

I don't generally answer the phone due to the absurd amount of sales calls I get these days, I'll wait for someone to leave a message, unless it's at a time I don't expect the sales pests to be phoning me.

[Deja Letov]

---

Sassy Romano wrote:

I know, there are occassions when it happens or when the "send to email" gets unchecked (it used to happen when swapping to the LL viewer from others I found) but I just wanted to dispell the misinformation that everything caps at 25 and thus nothing else goes to email.

That's not the case and never has been.

RL post gets lost, RL phone calls don't always get through, there's no difference in the few failures in SL failing to deliver but i'm all for making it easy for the customer and easy for me as far as possible and by far, the most sensible has to be IM's to email for anyone.

I'm going to get on my grumpy step now and ask if anyone that asks for notecards also asks RL phone callers or email senders to send a postcard in the mail instead?

*hops off the grumpy step*

---

Not yet but I am seriously considering it now. 

 

[Tari Landar]

I ask for either. For me, it's about what's most convenient for the person contacting me. I'm a pretty flexible person, for the most part, or I try to be anyway.

 

But, I had to giggle at the postcard thing. Mostly because I have been having one heck of a time contacting, and staying in contact with a program we use with part of our homeschool curriculum. I told them in no certain terms today if they can't manage a phone call during normal hours, or contact me electronically like normal people, they need to switch to US mail, or we're dropping their program. They've been driving me nuts with both recorded and non-recorded calls at absurd hours, including non-school days. The fact that they know our/my schedule, and I am available at just about every time OTHER  than the ones they choose to call, just makes it ten times worse. So.. I'm dealing with that irl too, and it can be just as annoying there, lol.

[Darrius Gothly]

(DG Story Time ... )

Reminds me of a situation we had some years ago with a "Project Engineer" at one of our more important hospital installations. He had this habit of coming in at 2am or thereabouts. He'd disappear into the equipment room, wander the halls a few times, stay perhaps an hour tops .. then head out again. The Site Administrator was a bit concerned when she got reports about his odd habits and schedule, but didn't think it was anything important .. at first.

THEN she got the "On Site Services" bill from his employer. Each of his "In-Depth Site Visits" was billed at 8+ hours, usually included replacement of several pieces of expensive equipment and amounted to one truckload of money.

How did I find out about it?

When she called me asking for the name of a DIFFERENT integrator they could hire. LOL!

 

We now return you to your normally scheduled thread ....

[Trinity Yazimoto]

---

Sassy Romano wrote:

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

hey ! Are you kidding ?

SL cap every ims or group notices after 25 sent. this mean that if you have

a total

of 25 ims AND group notices sent to you after you logged off, you wont recieve anything in your email box.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Instant_Message

. (

When a Resident is offline, up to 25 messages will be stored and delivered at the next login. This limit includes 

inventory

 offers, 

group

 notices, group invitation and IMs. All messages above this limit will becapped and not delivered.)

.This mean also, that after 25 nc sent when offline, we cant get anymore.

This is the official SL version.

---

STOP.

Let me kill this misinformation straight away.

IM's, group notices, inventory offers

FROM SCRIPTED OBJECTS

cap at 25.  Subsequent ones will not be delivered INWORLD.

If you have IM's to email set, then YES YES YES, IM's will then continue to be sent to email after the cap of 25 whether they originate from an avatar or an object.

Furthermore,

AVATAR TO AVATAR

inventory offers such as notecards, objects etc. WILL be stored until login.

Also, yes I do believe that some merchants don't understand what i've just stated and know to be true from daily experience so yes I do believe that some merchants are just pig headed about how they deal with their customers.

For those who are only using a single email account, set up filters and arrange your inbox.  If the excuse of "but I might miss it in a folder" crops up next, response is "then you're not taking your customers seriously".

My preferred method is IM's ALWAYS.  I do state this if forced to write a notecard to a merchant, that I want the return response in the form of an IM and NOT a notecard, because it's more efficient, I get them offline, they aren't affected by any cap.

So lets be clear, IM's to email DO continue past the 25 message cap, they are not dropped.

(I tried very hard to stay out of this thread, very hard)

 

---

AMEN.

So i have to admit here, you seems to be right indeed. Althought that for inventory offers from Avatar to avatar, i really cant see where is this added in the SL wiki. So after reading your post ive took some clear informations from some informated person, in particular some moderators from Firestorm support group. So yes, i aknowledge the fact you are right, ... in theory. bec this is not at all what is happening for me. 

So before telling the pp who says to me that they imed me or sent me smth that i never had in my mailbox (despite the fact i have my "send to my mailbox" checked), and neither in my inventory when its a matter of inventory offers, before telling them they are liers, (because, im not schizophrenic, and since i dont recieve what they say they sent to me, i wont think im the lier), i ve made a test.

ive loged with my alt, while my main avi was offline and sent to this one, 30 ims (sentences copied and pasted from the forum, to make ims a lil long) and 30 objects (textures, simple objects, and notecards)

So ive sent them in a reasonable waiting time, to not cause a flood. and this took me quite a whole morning.

While i was sending this, i was also checking what was happening in my mail box.

in a purpose to not mess and know precisely what whas recieved and what was not recieved i ve put a number from 1 to 30 in each ims , and same for objects, nc and textures.

So here is the result of my test : 

IMS :

1 to 3 : nothing in my mailbox, neither inworld when i logged them BUT i found them in my ims window when i logged 24 hours after, despite the fact, ive logged several times before.

4 to 7 : dropped in my mailbox and i got them inworld at my next logging

8 to 12 : nothing

12 to 28 : ok in my mailbox

28 to 30 : nothing

INVENTORY OFFERS : 

got them EXCEPT  the 17 , 23 , 26 , 27 , 28 , 29 , 30.

So yes, you are right about the non 25 limit in the mailbox, indeed. 

but can you tell me what happened to the number i didnt had ?

What do have i to say to the pp who sent me the ones i never had (lets imagine indeed, they dont come from my alt) ? 

Why are some received and why are some not ? Ok, SL glitch, but so, how can we judge a merchant for having a bad custom support if he/she s victim from this glitch ?

Needless to say that ive also checked my spam folder in my mailbox. my mailbox is well settled and none of the sl notifications comes there. So there were no sl notifications in my spam folder either.

Well, i dont feel personnaly concerned, bec i know i provide to my customers a great custom support, but yes, i cant help being afraid about non delivered ims or inventory offers and so i cant answer to them. This happens often to me. My regular customers are aware about this fact and they usually ask me again when they see me online. I just hope that they know im in good faith. 

What you said is right, but i cant take this as a rule, because its not what is happening to me, and i dont have a so big ego to think im the only one exception. I see a lot of other merchants complaining about the same as me., Ive also found an old Jira about this.

Sorry to have taken so long to answer and admit my mistake, but ive been busy, and wanted to test it by myself before coming here.

 

[Rya Nitely]

Are you also checking your junk mail?  Because for some reason my offline IMs and other notices often go there, so I routinely check both. But I never seem to miss any and have never had complaints.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

yeah, ive also checked this, and nothing there either.

:matte-motes-smile:

id just like to add, in way noone misunderstand me, this happens with business and friends ims or inventory offers. i rarely have complaints about my items, but i have a lot of help asking about how to adjust them or whatever else regarding my store and items. People knows im always glad to help, so this must be why i have so much asking. It can be also about hunts teams ive joined etc...or simply about friends... so this has to be considered as well.. it can be taken for a way to lie and cheat about my custom support, bec its not and it s affects all kind of ims and inventory offers pp send to me..