Clothing Stores and their ADs - Policies

[Rayven Baily]

 

So we all know copybotting clothing is a no no... and it should be. The designer puts work into creating the object. So I cleaned out my inventory the other day and found several things I have bought and never wore.. cause well, they didn't look as good as they did in the store manipulated photo. So copy botting is a big no no.. but misleading people to buy your prouct with alter photos is "ok"? I guess its all about buying Lindens and spending lindens..

If Linden Labs cares (and they should) a standard should be made where a demo of the product should be made available or the cutomer can get their money back in a 48 hour claim .

Afterall in the real world I could return the product... why should this be any different?

 

 

 

 

[Ricky40]

I Agee with you one hundred percent!! I am so sick of buying a Product that looks nothing like it does on the photo! Linden labs needs to have a false advertising policy! But I think you are right, the only thing Linden labs cares about is making money and they don't care who gets hurt or ripped off in the process.

[Rayven Baily]

 

Well, if people rise up and deicide to to purchase clothing untill there is a policy change then they will listen

[Rayven Baily]

*not

[Dillon Levenque]

Linden Lab doesn't make or sell clothing, or any other 'product' used in SL. Residents do that. Linden Lab has a very strict policy of not getting involved in resident-to-resident disputes. Just about everyone (including me) finds that out the hard way. In my case I paid for something that was never delivered, went looking for the LL department that covers that. There isn't one. It's just me and the merchant. Period.

Part of growing here is becoming a savvy shopper, and really there's no way around that. There is nothing wrong with refusing to buy anything you can't demo first, either. What you can't do is force a merchant to provide a demo—if a demo is unavailable you just have to shop elsewhere.

[Rayven Baily]

Linden Labs makes more off people purchasing lindens - afterall Lindens is what people are buying the clothes with. Be a savy shopper? So trial and error then?That's not a solution.. that's bad buisness.. "buyer beware" is basically what you are saying. Im sure hundreds of thousands of lindens are spent every year by people who are not happy about the product they purchased cause it didnt look the same.

[Dillon Levenque]

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Rayven Baily wrote:

Linden Labs makes more off people purchasing lindens - afterall Lindens is what people are buying the clothes with. Be a savy shopper? So trial and error then?That's not a solution.. that's bad buisness.. "buyer beware" is basically what you are saying. Im sure hundreds of thousands of lindens are spent every year by people who are not happy about the product they purchased cause it didnt look the same.

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Unfortunately, yes. Buyer Beware is exactly what I'm saying, and I'm sure you're right about the amounts spent by people who were disappointed in the product. It does help to remember that 1000 Lindens is about five bucks, but anytime you spend anything for something that was mis-represented it will tick you off.

I'm not trying to say you're wrong or anything, I'm just trying to explain that LL is not going to create a police force to stop that from happening. Be careful what you buy. Ask for demos (really—ask. You might be surprised by how much positive response you get from merchants when you express interest in their products). Find stores/merchants you like and patronize them.

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I do agree with you that designers should not photoshop sales pictures. However, keep in mind that they photograph things under optimum lighting conditions in a studio, so when you wear it under regular lighting it may not look exactly the same. However if you see flaws that were not in the picture, such as mismatched seams, then that's an indication that it was photoshopped.

I agree it would be nice to have demos for everything too, but that would create a lot more work for most creators and it would probably drive up the price of things as a result.  Personally I think the people most likely to offer a demo are the people that do great work.  The ones that do low quality work are the ones that have the most to hide and are unlikely to offer demos.  Even so, I'd be willing to pay a bit more if everything had a demo you could try.  

I don't agree with you about refunds. People could buy clothes and things to use once, then demand a refund which would not be fair to creators.  In RL you can tell if a garment has been worn or an item used much easier.  There is no way to tell that here.  Also everything would have to be sold as Transfer only since you can't return copy items and to be fair you would be required to return anything you wanted a refund on.

The bottom line is that when you joined SL you agreed under the TOS that you would buy things at your own risk and commerce was strictly between you and the seller.  LL is not going to do anything to appear like they are enforcing rules on commerce and thus possibly increase their liability.  The best thing you can do is to leave a bad review if you bought it on MP, vote with your feet by not buying anything more from that creator, and to tell your friends that the creator photoshops their sales picture.

[Syo Emerald]

Well if only the high quality superawsomephotoshoped advertising products get brought and screenshots from inworld get ignored by the customers....well then its simple why it is this way.

[Rayven Baily]

All, honesty I dont expect Linden Labs to do anything, cause it cuts into the money THEY make. In the end it's all about money, not what's right or wrong.

 

[Venus Petrov]

With the proliferation of mesh clothing, hair, shoes, etc, there are normally demos available for the potential buyer to try on and see how they fit/appear on the avie.  If you do not see a demo for mesh attire, do not buy it.  Simple as that.

For non-mesh clothing you should stick to shops your friends suggest if you are uncertain.  If you shop for low price items you will probably find some good stuff but you may also find stuff that you will not like post-purchase.

Do not focus on the pretty vendor photo.  Get mesh if you can for the demos or ask friends.

[Rayven Baily]

Mesh dictates how your shape is.. and half the time have to adjust shape from one outfit to the next. I dont mind mesh hair, shoes, eyes.. but I dont really buy clothes

[Czari Zenovka]

I echo what Dillon said about contacting the merchant.  I don't sell clothing and most of what I sell on the MP is also rezzed in my in world store, but I WANT my customers or potential customers to contact me with any questions/concerns.  I will do my very best to satisfy a customer's issue.  In 4 years of selling items in SL, I have had maybe 2 customers contact me with a question about a product and 0 with complaints.  I would like to think it's because everyone is satisfied with my products but, human nature being what it is and my being human, thus prone to occasional errors - I have a feeling some people may not have been 100% satisfied but never contacted me, thus I have no way of correcting the problem.

The situation I encounter semi-regularly is customers purchasing the same item from me twice - and the item has copy permissions.  If it's via the MP, I can understand a product not being delivered immediately causing the customer to try again (best to wait for a time), but I have also had this happen with items purchased in world.  My ads and MP listings clearly mark the items as copy.  However, no one has ever contacted me to say, "I accidentally purchased two of these copy items."  BUT!!!  I have contacted the customer and said, "I notice by my sales transactions that you purchased two of <item> and it has copy permissions.  Please respond to this IM to verify this and I will be happy to refund your money for 1 set.  (I want to make sure the person hasn't taken an extended vacation from SL, thus won't notice money mysteriously credited to their account.  I also am interested in knowing for the future why they purchased more than one so I may assist with that not happening in the future.)  Customers are always amazed that I contacted them and are most appreciative.  The reasons for purchasing more than one range from "I didn't get it right away (which usually means instantly as the multiple purchases are generally within 2 min. of each other) and thought it was a MP glitch" to "Oh!  I didn't realize they were copyable."

Main point here is that, in my experience, most merchants are more than willing to assist.  As a customer contacting a merchant I have yet to have a bad experience.  I know "non-helpful" merchants are out there and you may run into that type, but you'll never know unless you contact them.

[Seven Overdrive]

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Rayven Baily wrote:

 

So we all know copybotting clothing is a no no... and it should be. The designer puts work into creating the object. So I cleaned out my inventory the other day and found several things I have bought and never wore.. cause well, they didn't look as good as they did in the store manipulated photo. So copy botting is a big no no.. but misleading people to buy your prouct with alter photos is "ok"? I guess its all about buying Lindens and spending lindens..

If Linden Labs cares (and they should) a standard should be made where a demo of the product should be made available or the cutomer can get their money back in a 48 hour claim .

Afterall in the real world I could return the product... why should this be any different?

 

 

 

 

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It's really no different than advertising in the real world.  That Big Mac never seems to look like the one in the commercials.  Mascara commercials are done with false eyelashes.  Skin care brands use 17 year old models for their wrinkle creme ads.  Advertising has always exaggerated the appearance or abilities of products so it is no surprise it happens in SL too.  Customer reviews of products, if they aren't fake,  can help bring to light the reality of a product as compared to its hyped up appearance in an ad.

While I don't think it would be feasible for LL or merchants to offer a return window of time for purchases, I do not see it as much of a hardship for creators to plaster demo all over their finished clothes so the purchaser can get an idea how the item will look on them.  

But... as others have said...  Buyer Beware.

[Solaria Goldshark]

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Rayven Baily wrote:

If Linden Labs cares (and they should) a standard should be made where a demo of the product should be made available or the cutomer can get their money back in a 48 hour claim .

Afterall in the real world I could return the product... why should this be any different?

 

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I suppose that would depend on whether or not there was a no refund policy.....It's not much different than your real world purchases.  Sometimes you just get plain screwed.  Buyer beware. 

Oh...and the next time you stop by a McDonald's restaurant and order a Bic Mac....compare the picture in the display with the heap of crap piled up in the box.   Heaven help us it's a crime!  Right?   NO!......When is the government going to step in and do something?   Jeeze....I really think the lindens have better things to do that make policy over whether or not someone polished up their sales display to put the best face on their product.

And even more important is that matter of taste...that same item you call crap might just be someone's perfect cup of tea.   It may be a pile of crap, much like a Big Mac, but someone's eating them, and someone is profiting from it.  So no....I doubt we'll see governing body policy on either of these anytime soon.

(edited for missing word)

[Rayven Baily]

"In RL when you return the item, cancel the service, you no longer have access to the item.  In SL you still have it in inventory." - Roseysun Galicia said 

 

Oh you mean I get to keep a item I have no desire to have? So I will end up erasing it without using it like I did all the other items?

[Rayven Baily]

 

Last time I checked McDonalda was "fast food" meaning its made quickly. I don't think there is a chef back there making sure everything looks like the commerical. So that's a horrible analogy. Second off. McDonalds will give you a refund or and exchange if you are not happy. I'm not a McDonalds person, but they know how to keep their customers Happy.

[Rayven Baily]

The suggestion of a refund in a 48 hour period to to ensure the store stand by their product.. which right now they really dont have to. Personally, if I had my choice I would rather have the object as presented not the refund. If I wanted the refund. I wouldnt have purchased the product in the first place, but if I sold something that looks different then what I got in a bait and switch.. well I should have the opportunity to get my money back.

[Pussycat Catnap]

Truth in advertising laws do exist, and technically already cover this.

But are you willing to file a claim over values as small as a thousand lindens, which; lets face it, is less than the price of a cup of coffee?

The other effective means - name and shame - is hard to do when the community is so fractured. TOS prevents it here - which is still only a handful of people who'd see it anyway, only a small number read blogs, a smaller number read third party forums, and a smaller number reads the feeds.

So while you could go somewhere and start up a name and shame campaign - who will see it?

The Curios support effort -DOES- show that if your campaign gets attention it can get major traction. But for a name and shame over an ad, most people won't feel motivated enough to help.

 

Your best bet is to learn to be a careful shopper, and to wanr those you know when you get ripped off.

You can spot the doctered images if you look. If you see a shirt that lacks panels or a 'butt flap' but isn't obviously mesh - that merchant is a scam artist. And this is the number one place for these scams. So only newbies should be falling for it... sadly...

 

One good tactic is to never buy anything that has any photo-touchup to it beyond a logo and maybe a 'maturity rating blur', unless you get a free demo first.

- Stick to things with product images that are inworld renders.

The internet, photoshop, and buying online have been around long enough that people should be learning to be responsible consumers at this point. That doesn't justify scammers - but its more like "don't hand out in front of a crack den at 3am with a wad of cash in your hand."

 

[Rayven Baily]

 

So basically it comes down to this. You are rolling the dice on a product if you buy it and it's a new store. "Buyer Beware" and Linden Labs hands are tied. They cant or wont do anything about it.

Then maybe they should not ban copy botters and step away from that problem too. Let the Shop owners figure out a way to stop them.

Re-write the TOS - make it like the Wild West, Everyone takes care of themselves.

 

[Solaria Goldshark]

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Rayven Baily wrote:

The suggestion of a refund in a 48 hour period to to ensure the store stand by their product.. which right now they really dont have to. Personally, if I had my choice I would rather have the object as presented not the refund. If I wanted the refund. I wouldnt have purchased the product in the first place, but if I sold something that looks different then what I got in a bait and switch.. well I should have the opportunity to get my money back.

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You're talking about perception of quality.  That is not enforceable.  We could say you have bad judgment, or you were drunk at the time of purchase and woke up and regretted it.

Let me know when you find utopia with 100% safety and a guarantee against being disappointed.

[Pussycat Catnap]

Not rolling the dice at all.

Look at the promo image. If certain flaws that are -impossible to get rid of- inside of SL, are not there... you know its faked. Thus my comment about butt flaps on non-mesh dresses... Unless you're a newbie, you should know what these flaws are and where they are.

For newbies, this is one reason why its smart to start with freebies and items that have demos. So you don't spend much until you know how to spot a faked advert.

That said, such images are rare - because frankly its pretty easy to spot. People will often add to the atmosphere, frame it, or whatever - but not as often doctor up the product image.

 

 

[Rayven Baily]

 

You are right how foolish of me to want my money's worth. Not something useless I have no need or want for. Silly me... Like I'm the ONLY person that wants that.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Rayven Baily wrote:

Oh you mean I get to keep a item I have no desire to have? So I will end up erasing it without using it like I did all the other items

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I can assure you that there are plenty of dishonest people that would demand a refund but keep and use the item.  The only way to prevent this is to make everything transfer only and require a the item be returned.  Even then it would not prevent a dishonest person from buy a formal,wearing it once for a special occasion, then demanding a refund so in essence they have free use of it.  In RL you can tell if something was used and refuse a refund, but you can't tell in SL.  It is for this reason that many merchants have no refund policies even for transferable items.

[Rayven Baily]

 

I'm sure you are right. Which is why there should be demos for all clothing. Really thats all Im asking for. I would rather have a demo then have to go through th hassle of getting a refund.

Bottom line - Demos solves the problem.