New basic avatar please! We're in 2012!

[Marcodigi Aeon]

I wonder if you have the same feeling... With the release of meshes within Second Life, it seems to me that the "ruthed" basic avatar model masked by mesh clothes is quite "obsolete". I don't mean to eliminate the "usual" ruth born with Second Life itself, but to allow the Residents to choose and use both ( Ruth and Ruth 2.0! ). The merchants will continue to sell for Ruth and, possibly, starting to create new items with new templates for Ruth 2.0 ( like what is happening with the mesh market ). 

The shape customization is obsolete and compromised because

1) Mesh attachments don't conform to the basic avatar size automatically

2) If I buy a mesh complete avatar to "cover" the ruthed one, I can't change anything and we will all look like the same

Isn't better to have the basic avatar detailed and more realistic like mesh avatars instead of using them as a coat?

[161488303349]

at this stage i just be happy to get the qarl mesh deformer

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if linden ever do make a avatar 2.0 then hope they will make fish and animal ones as well

personally i would like a proper angel/demon wingy avatar form. like with wingy things that can come out your shoulders. so can have normal arms as well. and when you fly then can animate them and they can beat and flap and stuff like that. that be quite cool

[Amethyst Jetaime]

If they replaced the basic avatar you couldn't use most of what you have for your current one. None of your clothes would fit the new one.  Animations that were created for the current one would not work either as the avatar structure itself would change making it necessary to replace anything containing animations (furniture, dance machines, HUDs, weapons, food etc. etc.). None of the current rigged mesh would work for the same reasons animations wouldn't.

If they did this they'd have to give people a choice.  New people could start with the new avatar and current people could switch,  but anyone using the new one would have very little clothes,skin, accessories, animations etc. to choose from to start and it would take a long time before there was broad selection while creators made new things for it. They would almost have to continue to make new things for the current avatar too as the market would be much bigger and it would remain their bread and butter for a long time.

Actually I think their thinking is to just let creators do this now that mesh is supported. Of course the problem there is you'd look like a lot of other people who bought the same avatar.

There is a Jira asking for a new avatar and a lot of people support it, but it has been just sitting for ages.The only way I think it is going to happen is if a critical mass of residents demand it.  A hard sell because most people can't afford to replace everything in a short period of time and people are used to having a full inventory to pick from.  Also most of the stock of creators would be obsolete and it would take them months if not years to restock, since most can't create new things full time.

Bottom line is that it is doable, but it there would take a very  long transition period.

[Irene Muni]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

If they replaced the basic avatar you couldn't use most of what you have for your current one. None of your clothes would fit the new one.  Animations that were created for the current one would not work either as the avatar structure itself would change making it necessary to replace anything containing animations (furniture, dance machines, HUDs, weapons, food etc. etc.). None of the current rigged mesh would work for the same reasons animations wouldn't.

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This.

[Perrie Juran]

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Irene Muni wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

If they replaced the basic avatar you couldn't use most of what you have for your current one. None of your clothes would fit the new one.  Animations that were created for the current one would not work either as the avatar structure itself would change making it necessary to replace anything containing animations (furniture, dance machines, HUDs, weapons, food etc. etc.). None of the current rigged mesh would work for the same reasons animations wouldn't.

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This.

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Which is one of the reasons why none of us should have embraced or bought a single piece of mesh until the Lab had more of the kinks worked out.

Now they are in a position to say sorry, too late, you'll all have to live with the problems now.

 

And a hint for the ladies.  If you don't want me to see your naked boobies wear some undergarments with your mesh clothes.  Alpha layers do not hide your nakedness from non mesh viewers the way you think they do.

 

 

[Dillon Levenque]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Which is one of the reasons why none of us should have embraced or bought a single piece of mesh until the Lab had more of the kinks worked out.

Now they are in a position to say sorry, too late, you'll all have to live with the problems now.

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You mean, simply by procrastinating I actually did something right? Cool!

[161488303349]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Irene Muni wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

If they replaced the basic avatar you couldn't use most of what you have for your current one. None of your clothes would fit the new one.  Animations that were created for the current one would not work either as the avatar structure itself would change making it necessary to replace anything containing animations (furniture, dance machines, HUDs, weapons, food etc. etc.). None of the current rigged mesh would work for the same reasons animations wouldn't.

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This.

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Which is one of the reasons why none of us should have embraced or bought a single piece of mesh until the Lab had more of the kinks worked out.

Now they are in a position to say sorry, too late, you'll all have to live with the problems now.

 

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dont know about not getting mesh clothes bc maybe one day things will/might change somehow/maybe

clothes is about fashion for me. i have some mesh clothes now, which i wear pretty much all the time. i quite like how they move even as limited as it is. is so way better than sculpty

i used to have quite a lot of sculpty before now tho. and prim before that

as things change i just bin stuff that i never wear anymore. last season is so last season (:

am same in reals as well tho. if i dont wear it anymore then i put in the charity bin by our school gate. is more about the wearing and not the having for me. i not see any point in having stuff i never use or no longer has any meaning for me

is some old stuff that is timeless or nostalgic for me so i keep them. but most not

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ps. am a slave to shiny tho and is no hope for me ever. am doomd i am (:

 

 

 

 

[Coby Foden]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Bottom line is that it is doable, but it there would take a very  long transition period.

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One of the basic fashinations of SL is that we can tweak and individualize our avatars to a great degree.  It would be even more fashinating if the avatar mesh was a lot better than the present one is.  I wonder why Linden Lab has so hard time to understand this thing?

New great looking avatar mesh could be a kind of a "wow" factor.

It just could be that it would boost up new sign ups.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that Linden Lab is perhaps afraid that better avatar mesh would turn SL more sex oriented than what it is now and thus do nothing.  :smileyindifferent:

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Which is one of the reasons why none of us should have embraced or bought a single piece of mesh until the Lab had more of the kinks worked out.

Now they are in a position to say sorry, too late, you'll all have to live with the problems now.

 

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Although I have found less than 5 mesh items that fit my avatar and that I actually like the style of enough to buy them, I am not going to buy anymore  until the deformer is available and it proves to be working for my avatar without changing its shape.

Turns out that unless clothes were uploaded with a deformer enabled viewer, the deformer won't have any effect on them. So any mesh you buy now will be obsolete  soon.  Also it turns out that if the deformer has to size something past a certain limit textures distort. My only hope is that if they decide to avoid this by still offering sizes,they don't just adopt the current 'standard sizes' but actually base the sizes on a wider range of different body types and offer at least one for women that don't sport double D's and wide trunks.

[161488303349]

some more stuff

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one of the interesting things i find about mesh clothes is that when i first got some samples that even went anywhere near fitting my avatar. i went omg! i put on like about 40,000 pounds. i look like a barrel lol. except for my chest. which was way over on the nextdoor sim somewhere lost in the fog. never did find out where my bum finished up. jejejjejee (:

anyways !!!

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when i thought about it for a bit i realise that my avatar with systems clothes on is way bigger than it maybe should be otherwise. i had made it wider, thicker more muscular just so that it looked more normalish size with its system clothes on

am not a big avatar. like about 5.75 inch tall in bare feet on the SL 3 viewer height slider. just about everything is about 50. head, length torso, legs. so pretty normalish

what i had done tho with the other sliders was make then biggish, like arms, hips, butt, body fat, torso muscles, legs, etc. just so i could fill out my clothes more

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when i put the mesh on that size then omg! like i said

so i think ok. i will try find the mesh standard size that will make me the same size, including the bulk of the mesh, so that altogether i will be about the same size as before. fully clothed

i load up my alt who is exact same size and wear system clothes. so can compare

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anyways what i found was that i am actual XXS-XS top and XS bottom. so then i trim down my avatar to fit inside and then tweak it so is nice proportions without losing any height

now when i stand them side by side then they about the same size with their clothes on. and i not look like a barrel in the mesh. my mesh wearing avatar is way more delicate now. my system one looks more like the barrel now. is quite chubby by comparison

so i end up lose about 40 pounds instead of gain it

i was thinking i was a bit skinny tho. so i made shorter to about 5.25 inch tall. and ooo! proportionally is pretty much exactly the same as my system avatar. just shorter and less fat

i dont like to be that short yet so i put back up for now and will maybe gradually sneak it down a bit a a time over some weeks. or not. as i dont get naked. not where anyone else can see anyways

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this my conclusion (so far)

i think that the same would apply to other size avatars. bigger or smaller than me

mesh clothes seem bulky. but i kinda realise they arent. our avatars are bulky, chubby even, to compensate for the skintight system clothes we been wearing since the beginning. mesh clothes on these shapes makes us look even more bulky. and the deformer all by itself is not going to change that

[Morgaine Christensen]

While an updated version of the AV would be nice, I am satisfied with mine. IF the update they AV, I WANT to be able to use sliders, like we currently do.  I DO NOT want to look like every other woman in SL.   Also, I DO NOT like mesh clothing and do not own any at this point.  It all looks the same, every other woman has the same type outfit, some of what is worn just looks horrible, and I don't wish to have to modify my shape to wear some designers thought on what clothing should be sized for. 

I understand the limitations of creating mesh and mesh clothing after having messed with blender and realize the steep learning curve many are going through to create their products. But, like RL I don't always buy the newest and shiniest item that comes out. I have thousands of costly items in inventory already I have purchased over the years.  If it became obsolete, I would not replace it nor spend money to upgrade.  I have spent too much in SL as it is.

Also as a small time merchant and  builder, I have a plethora of animations and other items geared to current AV usage.   Other merchants and myself, would be holding the bag...if others are like me, we have spent a lot of money on items that would become useless to us..  While some merchants would be overjoyed to create new products to sell, the end user type builders would be out of business.  Many of us do what we do for fun, and as it is, I never cover my costs, Why would I wish to sink more money into SL an already dying economy? It would be pointless.

If they are going to do a new AV, then they best make sure that residents can chose to use the new or keep the old.  I like my shape, took me years to get it the way I want...it is part of me and my personality....don't go messing with who I am!

[Dillon Levenque]

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Morgaine Christensen wrote:

  I like my shape, took me years to get it the way I want...it is part of me and my personality....don't go messing with who I am!

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I was going to say something like that earlier, but I figured everyone would just think I was an idiot. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one. I grant you it does not make sense that an easily altered pixellated image should somehow be thought of as defining, but that's the way it is for me. My shape matters to me, a lot. It's a major part of who I am.

As one idiot to another, thanks. :smileyhappy:

[Sassy Romano]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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And a hint for the ladies.  If you don't want me to see your naked boobies wear some undergarments with your mesh clothes.  Alpha layers do not hide your nakedness from non mesh viewers the way you think they do.

 

 

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I'm really not fussed that you're in the minority using a viewer that is out of date. 

[Irene Muni]

If you are an idiot, I'm also. I agree with your post

[Syo Emerald]

That was my first idea when reading about mesh avatars. I'm happy with making my own shapes.

[Perrie Juran]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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And a hint for the ladies.  If you don't want me to see your naked boobies wear some undergarments with your mesh clothes.  Alpha layers do not hide your nakedness from non mesh viewers the way you think they do.

 

 

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I'm really not fussed that you're in the minority using a viewer that is out of date. 

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I'm really not fussed by seeing naked boobies.

However, if you ever wonder why someone's cross hairs keep falling on you, that could be the reason.

 

(I do not use an out dated viewer by choice..I am one of a small number of residents who seem to have an unusual problem with mesh viewers.  My choices are hope LL finds the solution or buy a new graphics card. I really don't want to spend the money right now.  My computer is less than a year old and everything was beautiful till mesh)

[161488303349]

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Morgaine Christensen wrote:

... I have thousands of costly items in inventory already I have purchased over the years.  If it became obsolete, I would not replace it nor spend money to upgrade.  I have spent too much in SL as it is. ...

... I have a plethora of animations and other items geared to current AV usage. ...

... If they are going to do a new AV, then they best make sure that residents can chose to use the new or keep the old.  I like my shape, took me years to get it the way I want...it is part of me and my personality....don't go messing with who I am!

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all of these^^

if linden do make a AV2 then will def be a toggle. will be nutso if they dont. if there was one single thing that would kill SL stone dead, it would be breaking/obsoleting pretty much 99.999% of every wearables just to make a new shiny

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i like mesh. well some skirts and some tops. i like mesh skirts. mostly bc i have a wiggly AO. the mesh skirts ride better. even better when i sit down

i think mesh clothes is a supplement at this time. like i am keeping my flexi hair. my fav boots are sculpts as well. if one day i can get some hair or boots similar in mesh then ok i will get. but for now i not find any that i like as much. not enough to be my favs anyways

[Bree Giffen]

I agree that SL doesn't need a new avatar. A brand new avatar has to exist on a brand new world where they simply fix everything that can't be fixed in SL due to legacy issues.

[Penny Patton]

You....do realize that LL could simply add an upgraded set of avatars in additionm to the existing base avatars, maintaining legacy content while providing an improved base to buiild upon moving forward....right?

[Marcodigi Aeon]

Exactly, If i remember...in the past 2007, Sculpted maps were almost unknown for many people in Second Life because 99% of things built were made by normal primitives only : a cube and a sphere LOL That was a nice addition in the metaverse and it has increased esponentially...So I think, they can add something like this...

[Coby Foden]

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Bree Giffen wrote:

I agree that SL doesn't need a new avatar.

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So, you are satisfied that we would be stuck with this present one for ever? :smileysurprised:

SL surely needs a new better one.  It appears that even the mesh clothing deformer project has hard time in finding a good solution as the underlying avatar mesh is so horribly badly done.  How to deform good clothing mesh nicely on a bad avatar mesh?  It's a big problem.

Creating new better alternative avatar mesh wouln't make the old one obsolete, they could co-exist.  If there was a will to make it so by Linden Lab.  Unfortunately they seem to be thinking that the present one is "good enough" for all eternity. :smileyfrustrated: