Dartagan Shepherd Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Glamor masquerade? I generally tend to think of masqueade in mostly full dress. While SL is not a prudish place, you used to be more mindful of work safe shopping. If that's no longer the case and you don't care that your promo image isn't appropriate for many people shopping from work, carry on. I personally don't mind the image, I'll take two of the real thing any day. But you did also let in teens. And while they're not prudes either, unless it's a kink based event this doesn't say masquerade to them either. It says period erotica. Is that what you meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamari Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Dartagan Shepherd wrote: Glamor masquerade? I generally tend to think of masqueade in mostly full dress. While SL is not a prudish place, you used to be more mindful of work safe shopping. If that's no longer the case and you don't care that your promo image isn't appropriate for many people shopping from work, carry on. I personally don't mind the image, I'll take two of the real thing any day. But you did also let in teens. And while they're not prudes either, unless it's a kink based event this doesn't say masquerade to them either. It says period erotica. Is that what you meant? If your worried about the Masquerade promotion image at work then it's hard to believe you have even seen the marketplace, even with adult content filtered out, the Masquerade image is tame compared to what you might expose your boss or co workers to. If shopping from work is so important for many people then the top priorities to fix on the market place should be to make sure adds are work place friendly and speed up the shopping process so people can get back to work faster. Why does this have to suggest only period erotica, May be SL is in decline because people are depending too much on LL to tell them what to do. If the next promotion was Lemmings I would hope that every one wouldn't think they had to jump off a cliff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 True, it isn't work safe in general. They used to say that shopping from work made up at least a consideration. If I remember correctly, that was part of the whole reason for pushing ratings enforcement and then one of the early reasons to promote the marketplace aquisition itself. They just closed down the solution provider program, so that says they're done trying to promote practical or business use of SL. One more niche down the toilet. Of course they lost the "work" and education markets for the most part some time ago. If they're going to focus on only consumers, it's probably better to label it an adult world and be done with it. The whole promotion thing is kind of a joke. There's a finite amount of money being spent, and promotions take money away from daily sales and regular selling stable items. I don't know if it's someones job security or if they don't understand that in a declining "economy" taking sales from normal items results in a less stable marketplace in general, with these back to back commercials. Maybe they're just trying to tap search terms "out there". There's no doubt that some people can make some money by using their promotions (again at the expense of everyone else). Perhaps it's better to be a good lemming and just make promotion items. They do seem to feel the need now to dictate what sells for some strange reason. Perhaps they're just milking the boost at the beginning of each promotion period thinking that this is an endless stream of money. Either way, they've completely lost the ability to understand or be concerned with the larger picture with their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamari Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 All good points. The loss of diversity of things like education, and the presents of business like IBM for me really take away from the over all appeal of SL, It was things like that that made it feel that you could do anything in SL. The idea of it just being a social gaming platform with a marketplace is not very appealing at all to me. To me one of LL biggest problems is that they tend to focuse all their effort in one directions, when they should be trying to create a more diverse world, it's all the little pieces that add up to make SL what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 These are strange days, indeed, when I find myself wanting to defend LL against criticism from Dart. Not that I totally disagree with every comment posted by everyone on this thread. I just think it probably says something about the state of SL as a medium that people are suddenly agreeing and disagreeing about different stuff for a change. The marketplace should certainly be more work-safe and school-safe than any of the actual viewers, although the marketplace may be accessible in places where the current banner might be inappropriately suggestive for work or school, and that might be something worth considering in future promotions. Singapore, for example, comes to mind as place where some users would not continue to use the marketplace after logging on and being surprised to have a co-worker or fellow student spot the reclining female figure. Not that I think that's the best explanation for why my own sales have been down a bit since the promotion started. Even if I thought it were, I'd still have to applaud the promotion as a substantial step in the right direction, more generally. >The whole promotion thing is kind of a joke. There's a finite amount of money being spent, and promotions take money away from daily sales and regular selling stable items. I do have to disagree with this part. Madstyle was a joke. But there isn't a finite amount of money being spent. Partly because the amount of money flowing into and out of SL is not constant, and partly because the amounts of L money being spent daily or weekly can include either a portion of the total volume of currency, or it can include some amount that exceeds that, as L currency can be spent repeatedly before it finally gets destroyed in some way. Whoever is spending money in SL, in the marketplace or in-world, and no matter where they're getting the money, this money is a microscopic fraction of what is being spent on anything that might be competing (my favorite examples being, drugs, prostitution and gambling, naturally). How much money gets spent here is at least partly a function of where else it might be getting spent in RL. But, utlimately, if money is spent sooner in the marketplace rather than later, this is better for both merchants and for LL. Promotions stand to cause at least some money to be spent sooner, if the promotions make it easier for shoppers to find something they want in fewer clicks. I support the promotions process, at least in principle, for this reason. That said, there are clearly better ways and worse ways to administer a promotion. I think I've already outlined some of the better ways elsewhere, and I think that LL is so far conforming more to my own model, rather than less. Not that I assume the're following my own model at all; just that I think they're making some better-reasoned decisions than they had been. >I don't know if it's someones job security or if they don't understand that in a declining "economy" taking sales from normal items results in a less stable marketplace in general, with these back to back commercials. Well, there would seem to be little harm in experimentally destabilizing a marketplace which is already losing money. That may not be happening, of course. But replacing one type of instability with a different type of instability can actually be an improvement sometimes, even if the total medium is managing to pay its own way as a rule. Even if we might prefer no promotions at all, better promotions rather than worse promotions should give us a lot less to which to object. That this seems to be happening at all is at least a sign that the whole promotions issue is being treated more seriously than before, so if the real data should finally cause someone to conclude that all promotions are bad, there's at least some hope of such a conclusion eventually being reached (again, not that I think promotions are bad; my immediate point here is about the decisions process behind promotions, not the promotions, themselves). But what we really need to consider is not whether random promotions are helpful or harmful, but whether intelligently planned promotions would probably be helpful or harmful. I think that they could be very helpful. My reasoning is that if shoppers are already searching for something, a promotion can both help them get to it in fewer clicks, and also help merchants more deliberately provide both that thing, and related things which might also be of interest to the same shoppers. I don't have any data on how many shoppers have searched for "masquerade", and I don't expect LL to provide such data, necessarily. But it's easier for me to believe that "masquerade" is viable category of things for which some subtantial number of shoppers have been searching and not quite getting what they were after, than to believe the same thing about something called "madstyle" or "mad men". Maybe they can do better next time, sure. I'm under the impression that they're presently trying to figure how to do even better. In the meantime, any better than madstyle is... well... better, at least. If their choice was between A) running the probably very safe "masquerade" promotion at least until they come up with something else or B) continuing with the "madstyle" promotion until the whole promotions decision process has been perfected, then I have to agree with LL's decision. I know for a fact that plenty of people do want to buy the kind of stuff that's being listed in the masquerade promotion, and that least some merchants would have been capable of offering more of it than they otherwise would have, if they should choose to make maximum use of the promotional opportunity. Whether this means a net gain or a net loss to any specific merchants or even to LL in the final analysis is still a fair question, but I think this is closer than "madstyle" was to the correct model of promotions, assuming that there are going to be promotions anyway. Assuming that any given promotion is good for some merchants and not good for others, though, there's no reason that promotions, as a complete process, must necessarily destabilize more than they stimulate. If promotions are changed often enough and merchants are given the maximum possible amount of time to prepare for them, then maybe the system can be essentially fair, or, perhaps, at least fair enough that the value of total stimulus offsets any uneveness in demand for specific product types which the promitions produce as whole. If there's a promotion for "shoes", for example, I won't get much out of that. But if, during that, there's an advanced announcement for something like a promotion on "rocks", that would give me a chance to focus on getting geared up rather than focus on how to work around the immediate promotion in order to squeeze some kind of business out of it. People who don't want to see any promotions at all might be right that even a properly engineered system for optimizing promotions would still produce either more total problems to the average merchant, or a greater degree of unfairness that ethically outweighs any additional sales. But until I have at least seen it tried, I'm just not convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spica Inventor Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I find the whole LL promotion thing to be, for perhaps lack of a better word,.... GOOFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachJubilee Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I don't know what those things have to do with the theme, but they are apparently not slacking off on the delisting as I found out when I logged in to discover my mix n match ensemble, whole outfit for women delisted from the mix and match ensemble sub category under whole outfits (for women). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polenth Yue Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I don't see a reduction in sales during the promotions or an increase in sales of items I put in promotions. Which suggests the promotions aren't that successful or harmful. Masquerade is a better choice of theme in that it's a distinct style and could be used to theme events (I've seen 60s events, but not Mad Men events... it's not a popular choice). Unfortunately, I don't think it'll reach its potential, as merchants and business owners need a longer advanced notice to really do something with a theme. We need the events to drive the sales of the accessories, and not many people can pull a masked ball out of the hat with a few days notice. But I don't think it's going to kill anyone's business either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Dartagan Shepherd wrote: Glamor masquerade? I generally tend to think of masqueade in mostly full dress. While SL is not a prudish place, you used to be more mindful of work safe shopping.<snip> It says period erotica. Is that what you meant? I had pretty much the same reaction when I saw the banner, Dartagan, and I wasn't at work, nor am I a prude. It was just not the usual LL advertisement. One of the pages of the SL site (not sure if it was the home page or the join SL page) used to have an avatar that looked very much like this: I had purchased this dress (purchased the hair in 2007, fan around 2008, and already owned the jewelry) quite awhile before I first saw the SL ad. I almost fell out of my chair when I saw a similar photo (including the same hair) on the SL website because it was almost identical to this photo of me at a masquerade ball in 2009. (Hmmmmm...wonder if someone from LL was at this party...lol.) Anyway, my point is - this was the last image LL used for a masquerade. Quite a bit different from the current one. Again, not complaining, just...very curious in the change of art style for LL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Calamari wrote: All good points. The loss of diversity of things like education, and the presents of business like IBM for me really take away from the over all appeal of SL, It was things like that that made it feel that you could do anything in SL. The idea of it just being a social gaming platform with a marketplace is not very appealing at all to me. To me one of LL biggest problems is that they tend to focuse all their effort in one directions, when they should be trying to create a more diverse world, it's all the little pieces that add up to make SL what it is. This ^^ Especially the bolded parts. If SL is going to become a social gaming platform, personally I'd rather play WoW. I enjoyed SL for being a virtual WORLD - not a virtual slice of a world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Calamari wrote: Dartagan Shepherd wrote: Glamor masquerade? I generally tend to think of masqueade in mostly full dress. While SL is not a prudish place, you used to be more mindful of work safe shopping. If that's no longer the case and you don't care that your promo image isn't appropriate for many people shopping from work, carry on. I personally don't mind the image, I'll take two of the real thing any day. But you did also let in teens. And while they're not prudes either, unless it's a kink based event this doesn't say masquerade to them either. It says period erotica. Is that what you meant? If your worried about the Masquerade promotion image at work then it's hard to believe you have even seen the marketplace, even with adult content filtered out, the Masquerade image is tame compared to what you might expose your boss or co workers to. If shopping from work is so important for many people then the top priorities to fix on the market place should be to make sure adds are work place friendly and speed up the shopping process so people can get back to work faster. Why does this have to suggest only period erotica, May be SL is in decline because people are depending too much on LL to tell them what to do. If the next promotion was Lemmings I would hope that every one wouldn't think they had to jump off a cliff. I personally thought of period erotica when I saw it...but not "only" however its not a very well timed banner program anyhow, should have been in feb........... I do like the photo though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 >should have been in feb........... Don't worry, though. I bet they'll have the "wedding" promo ready on about 5 July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 CommerceTeam Linden wrote: Structures/Residential/Single Family Houses Structures/Residential/Multi Family Buildings What is the purpose of this? This just seems to add extra categories, is the idea to split apartments into their own category? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Maybe they're gearing up the categories for their big up-coming push to zoning compliance. Better think twice before buying that copymod gazebo kit, huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachJubilee Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I just wish they would sort out their current categories and delisting process and treat us like customers rather than cheats. Most importantly of all, tell us where things should have been put in the delisting notifications, both for practical reasons, and because it is indescribably disrespectful to not do so. I'm still waiting to hear which category an item delisted last week belongs in. I should not have to waste my time submitting a ticket, or waiting around, and LL should not be wasting its staffs' time having them double handle an issue that should be initially handled in a way that least inconveniences customers, not the way that most inconveniences them while also creating more work for LL's own staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rival Destiny Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 This is true however, LL has always been reactive and not proactive, guilty before innocent, etc. They will take it all down then decide later what should be done. What happens when you run a system like that is what we see now. Backlogs of issues upon issues while merchants/residents wait for their issue to be resolved. If there were clear cut rules in place to begin with, then none of this would be necessary. From what I see now, anybody can get a product taken down and merchant must sit pretty until resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Boucher Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Talking about Marketplace categories, I've just oppend a Jira issue https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4788 It would be nice sub branding at our will, or diffrent shops for the same merchant. Endless possibliities for rebranding, etc etc etc PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Zoning compliance? I'm out of the loop lately and haven't been following, is this a rumour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachJubilee Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Well you're not wrong about shoot first and think it over later. I just logged onto my email to find the ticket I put in has been resolved. It turns out that the item was appropriately listed all along and both a flagger and the Linden reviewer both happened to think it should be in another category that apparently it also would fit in. I've been told I can relist it again in the same category it was delisted from. I just hope it does not happen all over again, because nothing about this process gives me confidence that it won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 >Zoning compliance? I'm out of the loop lately and haven't been following, is this a rumour? Oops... well I guess it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rival Destiny Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 This zoning compliance? Can you be a little more specific? Does it relate to LL's present Adult, Mature, PG settings or the settings that landowners use that are not really settings but more designations - Residential Commercial etc. I ask because I think the latter, is something LL needs to keep their noses out of unless they are providing a feature where we can actually include these as land settings. Otherwise, this should remain a setting that land owners manage on their own. This is really owner specific and goes to the the land covenant's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaneD DeCuir Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Hmm, and where is the mighty linden category? :matte-motes-smitten: No, seriously, great work! As next you should change the available size of creators store banners. Mine looks stretched and doesn't reflects it original meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namssab1nad Piers Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 wouldn't halloween items fall into this banner also? think of it as like real life companies advertising for Christmas starting in September.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polenth Yue Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 namssab1nad Piers wrote: wouldn't halloween items fall into this banner also? think of it as like real life companies advertising for Christmas starting in September.... Some people sell carnival / masquerade costumes for Halloween, so I can see moving those over, but a pumpkin lantern and witch's broom would be stretching it. Those things are primarily Halloween items, so go in the Halloween category. Putting it another way, throwing anything into these promotions isn't a good way to build customer goodwill. Mislabelled stuff does annoy customers. They won't complain here and they may not think to flag it, but don't take that to mean they won't notice or remember the name of someone who keeps putting random stuff into the promotions. When someone's looking for items for a masked ball, they don't want to wade through sexy nurse costumes or whatever else people have tried to sneak in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Quandry Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 So there is a category dedicated to neckties but the only scifi specific category remains to be Rockets and Space Ships... I suggest that Science Fiction gets its own Community just like Furry and Steampunk. And no Fantasy does not qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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