Alcohol & Tobacco Police On The Prowl?

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

Last week, I was notified a Marketplace item had been flagged and inactivated, because it was not set as 'Moderate'. It was about Cuban cigars. I set to Moderate and activated again. No big deal. Someone wants to protect the innocent souls of all the kids watching along with mom & dad browsing Marketplace.

Today, MP took down another item of mine: the 'Garden Furniture Set', which happens to have a bottle of whiskey as one of the 80 props that are included. You'd have to give on the accompanying pictures a really good look to actually see it. This and past week's event sort of made me wonder.

Oh! The horror!

Is the Alcohol & Tobacco Police on the beat? Did Linden Lab let an anti-alcohol and tobacco swat team loose on MP? Or is there someone out and about with nothing better to do than to flag items on MP all day, venting their frustrations of some real-life event? Anyone else got knickered by the Booze & Smoke Squad?

And this leads me to more relevant question for General Discussion Forum: whenever I see child avatars about, typing kiddie stuff—you have seen them before, avatars looking like 2 year-old toddlers wearing pacifiers, babbling like 5 year-olds, with hints of intellectual wit of a 40+ year-old, driving you mad with a continuous flow if baby giggle and 'otay' gestures—then I always bestow them with liquor and cigarettes.

Am I violating the Second Life Community Standards when I give child avatars cigarettes and booze? Am I also violating the CS when I have a Cuban cigar in my mouth in a General sim? And an unlit chocolate cigar? And a clearly visible firearm in a holster? A picture of a skull smoking a cigarette on my shirt? Am I in violation of the CS when dropping pellets in a General sim, while dressed up as a hamster? Can I actually wear a Popeye avatar there at all? Where does LL draw the line?

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Never heard this before about the smokes and booze.  I suspect some righteous do gooder, or a rival merchant at work and a mindless Linden that automatically delists if ANY one is offended.  A search of MP with only G results turns up a lot of tobacco and liquor stuff.

As far as the other, I wouldn't think any of that would be a TOS violation.  The big thing with kid avi's is that they should have nothing to do with sex.  I also don't see any TOS violation with the other things either.  There are no young kids here only 16+, unless they are lying.  Older teens see a lot worse than that on their xbox.

[Kenbro Utu]

When the ratings were first changed to General, Moderate and Adult, smoking and alcohol were directly addressed as falling under the Moderate rating.  The wording seems to have changed now in the Wiki, and only references "bars" and I don't know if the original wording is still around in a musty web page closet, but I remember it clearly.  

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I think if it were still true the MP software would automatically rate these things as M like it does if you include the world sex or even XXL as a size, but it doesn't.  But who knows with LL?  They aren't known for consistency in enforcing ratings.

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

alcohol and tobacco for toddler avatars, no biggie, just don't offer them joints :matte-motes-wink:

[Deja Letov]

Happened to me too. I had a bottle of wine sitting on the table, nowhere in the keywords or description and mine got flagged to. The funny thing is...why can't it just be a bottle of grapejuice? There is no label on this aledged wine bottle! Where's my lawyer?

[Ceka Cianci]

ya sounds like someone flagging you more than them finding those on thier own..

 

[Deja Letov]

What LL is saying is that if you type in "wine" or related alcohol term and select "genera" from the rating, you should get 0 results in theory. I guess someone got bored and started going through them. Over 5000 results right now...do they really consider all of them "mature".

[Nox Vought]

I blew a shotgun from a blunt into a prim babys face and I'm still here.

[Jenni Darkwatch]

Did LL move to Utah? ~ducks~

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I suppose they think they are protecting the teens from these evil vices.  Meanwhile those same teens see this stuff at home or at friends houses all the time and even buy them themselves with fake IDs.

If LL is on the temperance wagon, I have to assume they are doing it for PR reasons.  No where in the TOS or Community standards or any referenced documents. does it say these things are not allowed on G sims.

The official document about G ratings says:

 

General 

A region designated General is not allowed to advertise or make available content or activity that is sexually explicit, violent, or depicts nudity.  Sexually-oriented objects such as "sex beds" or poseballs may not be located or sold in General regions.

General regions are areas where you should feel free to say and do things that you would be comfortable saying and doing in front of your grandmother or a grade school class. Institutions such as universities, conference organizers, and real world businesses may wish to designate their regions as General. Likewise their users (and others) may wish to employ Second Life's General search setting to focus and filter search results appropriately.

Some landowners and Residents desire a Second Life experience distinct from the activity that occurs in Moderate and Adult regions. Region owners who wish to host this sort of Second Life experience can (but need not) designate their regions as General. 

If you are a region owner and you feel there is some ambiguity as to whether your content and activities are allowed in General regions, it's probably best to designate your region as Moderate.

 

When I was a teen, as far as grandma was concerned, she said nothing about smoking.  She would however ask me to pour her a glass of beer once in a while.  So it passes my grandmother test. :smileywink:

[Ceka Cianci]

the mp has it's own set of maturity ratings for listings...which it seems they do list tobacco and alcohol in the moderate section..

i still don't see LL having the time to comb through looking for this stuff more than someone competing with them..

but i guess it's possible they might.

 

Mature Content Guidelines

All uploaded or posted content must be rated as “General,” “Moderate,” or “Adult” based on the maturity definitions below. A rating is for everything on a listing page, including the item listed for sale, the item description, and any images or keywords used.

Items or content that fall within multiple categories must be rated using the most mature rating applicable. Items or content that fall within the “Banned” category below are not allowed to be uploaded or posted on the SL marketplace under any circumstances.

We may remove listings or change the ratings of listings that we deem to be in the wrong or inappropriate category in our sole discretion.

General Content Is For All Residents.

• Avatar goods that may be sexy, but are not sexual, including:
  • Avatars and avatar skins as long as they do not show anatomical nudity. They must not depict genitals or female nipples in either the listing image or the inworld item.
  • Avatar accessories, including sexy clothes and undergarments, as long as they do not expose genitals or female nipples.
  • Avatar animations, as long as they do not depict sexual activity.
• Mildly violent content, including:
  • Virtual weapons, depicted realistically or non-realistically.
  • Virtual blood that is not excessive or gratuitous.
  • Depictions of violence that are easily distinguished from real life, such as:
  • Cartoon-like violence that does not harm others
  • Fantasy violence
  • Violence that does not involve human avatars
• Mild language, including crude, suggestive or bathroom humor, as long as it does not involve profanity, sexual references, or descriptions of violent acts.
• Informational or educational content, including content about breast cancer and sex education.
• Games, including games of chance, as long as they do not involve betting or wagering real or virtual currency, including Linden dollars

Moderate Content Is Only For 18+ Year-Old Residents.

• Mildly sexual content, including:
  • References to sex, as long as they are not explicit or frequent.
  • Intimate avatar animations, as long as they do not depict sexual activity that is explicit or highly realistic.
• Violent content, including:
  • Graphic depictions of bodily injury or death, as long as they are not extreme or highly realistic.
  • Descriptions of violent acts, as long as they are not excessive or designed to shock.
• Depictions of or references to alcohol or tobacco use.
• Listings for full homesteads or islands, which may be sold only to residents who are at least 18 years of age.
• Wagering games that comply with our Policy Regarding Wagering in Second Life

Adult Content Is Only For 18+ Year-Old Residents.

• Strong sexual content, including:
  • Depictions of anatomical nudity, including exposed genitals and/or female nipples.
  • Sexual avatar animations, including ones depicting explicit or highly-realistic sexual intercourse or oral sex.
  • Content or items intended for use in, or primarily associated with, erotic or sexual roleplay.
  • Explicit or frequent references to sex or sexual activity.
• Extremely violent content, including:
  • Blood and gore that is extreme or highly realistic.
  • Explicit depictions of serious bodily injury, mutilation of body parts, dismemberment, or death.
  • Explicit or detailed descriptions of violent acts.
• Profanity in the listing or item content.
• Depictions of or references to illegal drug use.
• Real Estate Listings for rentals or sales on Adult Rated Regions

Banned Content Is Not Allowed For Any Residents.

• Non-consensual sexual content, or any content or items that depict or suggest sexual activity that all parties involved did not consent to.
• Sexual content involving minors, or any sexually explicit or suggestive content or items depicting minors.
• Cruel or hateful content, or content or items that depict or suggest cruelty or hatred towards individuals or animals.

[Hoshi Kenin]

---

Arduenn Schwartzman wrote:

Last week, I was notified a Marketplace item had been flagged and inactivated, because it was not set as 'Moderate'. It was about Cuban cigars. I set to Moderate and activated again. No big deal. Someone wants to protect the innocent souls of all the kids watching along with mom & dad browsing Marketplace.

Today, MP took down another item of mine: the 'Garden Furniture Set', which happens to have a bottle of whiskey as one of the 80 props that are included. You'd have to give on the accompanying pictures a

really

good look to actually see it. This and past week's event sort of made me wonder.

Oh! The horror!

Is the Alcohol & Tobacco Police on the beat? Did Linden Lab let an anti-alcohol and tobacco swat team loose on MP?

Or is there someone out and about with nothing better to do than to flag items on MP all day, venting their frustrations of some real-life event?

Anyone else got knickered by the Booze & Smoke Squad?

And this leads me to more relevant question for General Discussion Forum: whenever I see child avatars about, typing kiddie stuff—you have seen them before, avatars looking like 2 year-old toddlers wearing pacifiers, babbling like 5 year-olds, with hints of intellectual wit of a 40+ year-old, driving you mad with a continuous flow if baby giggle and 'otay' gestures—then I always bestow them with liquor and cigarettes.

Am I violating the Second Life Community Standards when I give child avatars cigarettes and booze? Am I also violating the CS when I have a Cuban cigar in my mouth in a General sim? And an unlit chocolate cigar? And a clearly visible firearm in a holster? A picture of a skull smoking a cigarette on my shirt? Am I in violation of the CS when dropping pellets in a General sim, while dressed up as a hamster? Can I actually wear a Popeye avatar there at all? Where does LL draw the line?

---

It will be that sentence I highlighted. No ifs or buts.

Sadly, there are souls who were seemingly Gestapo stooges in a former life.  I have come across them many times in welcome areas scanning me desperately to find copied clothing et al.

And yes...they have nothing better to do.

 

[Kenbro Utu]

---

Ceka Cianci wrote:

the mp has it's own set of maturity ratings for listings...which it seems they do list tobacco and alcohol in the moderate section..

Moderate Content Is Only For 18+ Year-Old Residents.

 

• Depictions of or references to alcohol or tobacco use.

 

---

Doesn't get much clearer than that.  I knew this was part of Moderate rating, and it used to say so in the wiki on ratings, which seems to have been re-worded now.  If you are in direct violation of the MP listing rules, you got no room to complain when you get caught.  

[Dillon Levenque]

 

---

Kenbro Utu wrote:

---

Ceka Cianci wrote:

the mp has it's own set of maturity ratings for listings...which it seems they do list tobacco and alcohol in the moderate section..

Moderate Content Is Only For 18+ Year-Old Residents.

 

• Depictions of or references to alcohol or tobacco use.

 

---

Doesn't get much clearer than that.  I knew this was part of Moderate rating, and it used to say so in the wiki on ratings, which seems to have been re-worded now.  If you are in direct violation of the MP listing rules, you got no room to complain when you get caught.  

---

 

 

A guy who used to be on the radio in my neighborhood was fond of saying, "Two things can be equally true.". You (and Ceka who posted the appropriate clause) are of course absolutely right and anyone who sells on the Marketplace should hold himself responsible for knowing the rules.

That's true. Also true: A prohibition on the use of tobacco and alcohol (pretend tobacco and alcohol, mind you) in Marketplace listings is incredibly dumb. LL should hunt down the legal eagle who convinced someone that the proscription needed to be in the MP terms, and fire not just the eagle but whoever it was that approved the rule.

[Jacki Silverfall]

Your my hero!

[Kenbro Utu]

You'll get no argument from me on that.  

[Ciaran Laval]

Rather amusingly, I'm sitting here with a can of Stella Artois and here on these very forums an advert for Stella Artois appears! I know google are constantly trying to improve their algorithms to search relevant ads but surely they can't be that good!

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Dillon Levenque wrote:

 

---

Kenbro Utu wrote:

---

Ceka Cianci wrote:

the mp has it's own set of maturity ratings for listings...which it seems they do list tobacco and alcohol in the moderate section..

Moderate Content Is Only For 18+ Year-Old Residents.

 

• Depictions of or references to alcohol or tobacco use.

 

---

Doesn't get much clearer than that.  I knew this was part of Moderate rating, and it used to say so in the wiki on ratings, which seems to have been re-worded now.  If you are in direct violation of the MP listing rules, you got no room to complain when you get caught.  

---

 

 

A guy who used to be on the radio in my neighborhood was fond of saying, "Two things can be equally true.". You (and Ceka who posted the appropriate clause) are of course absolutely right and anyone who sells on the Marketplace should hold himself responsible for knowing the rules.

That's true. Also true: A prohibition on the use of tobacco and alcohol (

pretend

tobacco and alcohol, mind you) in Marketplace listings is incredibly dumb. LL should hunt down the legal eagle who convinced someone that the proscription needed to be in the MP terms, and fire not just the eagle but whoever it was that approved the rule.

---

i find it silly myself..especially since people were saying it was just in the picture and not the product that was being sold..

like someone said..how do they know it wasn't grape juice?

i think there is a place for these kinds of rules..but i also think someone really needs to be looking at what is getting AR'd as to if it really is breaking some rule.. or if it could possibly be anything else besides what someone is saying it is in their AR..

i think too many times griefers take advantage of rules.. and to save time..the mods just click and suspend it taking an AR's word for it.. until someone either defends themselves or just assimilates..

 

i wasn't saying the OP was right or wrong..

i was just posting where i knew that information was at is all..

i think the AR system is pretty lazy myself when it comes to protecting it's customers..

to me  it's a problem when the system can be manipulated so easily in favor of someone wanting to grief someone else on the market..

i would hope that those mods actually look at what is being reported and use common sense to say..yes that is breaking the rule or no that one is ok..

othrwise they might as well use bots like they did the last version of the forums when it came to ARing posts and threads..

 

also looking at that tom and jerry picture..it just screams how stupidly over sensative things are in the U.S.

it's ok to have that kind of stuff on cartoon network where little children not even old enough for school are glued...but shame shame for showing anythign like that in second life where teens could be swayed to the ebil ways of tom and jerry .

9 times out of 10 that cigar is gonna blow up anyways lol

 

[Pamela Galli]

Just imagine the collective man hours being spent to make sure things like my bar do not corrupt a youth of only 17, who has surely never encountered a bar before, say, in a RESTAURANT. 

All of which could be saved if someone went into the Guidelines website and deleted that line. Problem solved.