most have normal spec cars,why does sl and fire-storm think we own ferreris and porsches

[greek Wingtips]

its amazes me that when they update the viewers and sl they seem to think the most people have specs like powerful sports cars, when most have an average car, I have a decent pc not the lastest but high spec about 4 years old, tried to update to the new firestorm viewer only to be hit by problems upon problems, in the end after a day for battlly I had to revert back to the old viewer, and what was the prob, my PC could not handle it, could this be why many leave sl because they are fed up with the crashes, the rezzing the rebaking and all the crap that seems to be a constant problem, like to hear from you, plz plz dont tell me its only me, many had the same probs

[Ren Toxx]

I have an 8-years old small laptop which wasn't nearly top of the line even back then, and it still runs SL. Of course I have to massively dial it back on all the graphical quality settings, compared to my newer desktop. But it runs.

[Finneli Felwitch]

I had some problems with Firestorm 4.4.0 as well. Though my Laptop is an Intel i3 with 4GB of DDR3 memory, the graphics is onboard intel HD 3000 (not made for games).

I run Second Life on medium settings with atmospheric shaders turned off. Draw distance below 100. I get 15-25 FPS.

First here are the Top 3 complaints with the new Firestorm and their fixes:

http://letteponnier.blogspot.com/2013/04/fasqapril23.html

The Top 3 complaints are Black screen, Height Off-set missing, and hidden buttons. The explanation for these problems are explained. Height off-set as a preference tab option is not longer compatible with Linden Labs server code. 

 

When updating to the latest Firestorm, I  did not due a clean install, ran into a ton of problems. I fixed most issues with a clean install.

http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_clean_reinstall

Maybe you ran into problems with seeing Mesh? Is there a hole through your avatar where there should be mesh or another avatar that is missing most of their body? When Linden Labs created Mesh, they did not expect us to be using Mesh for clothing and so then did not set the Render values rate very high. Sometimes that process will get stuck. 

You can read more on this issue here:

http://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/meshmaxconcurrentrequests-the-new-rendervolumelod-thats-killing-what-sl-looks-like-for-some/

or if you dont want to read that page, you can change the Mesh requests by opening Debug settings and typing in Meshmaxconcurrentrequests and changing the value from 32 to something like 145 (145 is used as an example in that website link).

Having issues with the graphics settings in the preference tab? You can change the settings to even lower values or max them beyond what the preferences tab shows. By opening Phototools up (can be found in the tool bar.

http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/phototools_menu_floater

Here are some of the features of this wonder full menu:

• Draw Dist.: This sets the furthest distance the viewer will draw anything. High values will slow your FPS.
• Avi Count: Maximum number of non-impostor avatars to render in a scene. Very helpful for situations where many avatars are slowing your FPS.
• Avi Detail: Sets the render quality of the avatars. Higher is better quality.
• Avi Physics: Controls level of detail of avatar physics (such as chest physics). Higher is better.
• Particle Cnt.: Sets the maximum number of particles to render.
• Terr. Scale: Sets the quality of the default Linden Labs ground (terrain) texture. Requires a restart if changed.
• Terrain Qal: Sets the quality of terrain. High numbers mean more detailed terrain in the distance.
• Obj. Detail: Controls the detail of prims. Higher values produce greater detail for objects.
• Flexiprims: Controls level of detail of flexible objects. Higher means more detail.
• Tree Detail: Controls level of detail of vegetation. Higher numbers produce greater detail.
• Sky Detail: Controls vertex detail on the WindLight sky. Lower numbers will give better performance and less than lovely skies.

• Vig. Amount: Amount of vignette to apply. 
• Vig. Power: Power of the vignette.
• Vig. Multiply: Multiply factor.

• Enable Draw Distance: If you disable this feature the Viewer will render past your set draw distance.
• Dynamically adjust level of detail: This enables the feature that allows the viewer to dynamically adjust the level of detail in scene as you move further away from objects. It helps improve performance, it also can reduce the quality of the objects in the scene.
• Render only Objects Visible to the Camera: This allows the viewer only to process/draw those objects that are within the camera field of view and not hidden behind anything else. Usually this is a performance booster. Sometimes it can actually reduce performance especially when the scene/sim has few objects. Toggle to see if it helps or not.
• Anisotropic Filtering: Enables anisotropic filtering to improve texture quality. This setting may reduce your viewer's performance. 
• Render Particles Attached to other Avatars: Enables the viewer to render any and all particles attached to/coming from other avatars.

• Anti-aliasing: Determines how sharp and smooth the edges of objects will be. On top level graphics cards, higher values have virtually no performance impact. On lower graphics cards, higher values can slow performance significantly.

• Texture Bumpiness: Controls the strength and resolution of normal and bump maps. You must toggle to check box below for changes to take effect.
   
   
  Edit: Also here is a link to descriptions of what just about ever option does in Firestorm. Take note at the Render types. I disable water when I am not looking at it.
  http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_menus_fs431?s[]=photo
   

[Orca Flotta]

If your PC really was decent about  4 years ago it still should run SL just fine. I imagine the problem, as so often, sits in front of the keyboard. :matte-motes-wink-tongue:

[greek Wingtips]

smart asses always chat but never can backup their claims so, I wager you 10k L$ who is the IT person here you or me, I will upload my qualifications and my status of my employment and you do the same, read what am saying, if you dont understand then said so, then i explain, but smart ass comments just shows your low intel in the disscussion

[Qie Niangao]

---

If your PC really was decent about  4 years ago it still should run SL just fine.

---

That's what I was thinking, too. In fact, with recent releases, I've seen framerates improve, but that could be a function of which graphics features I enable.

In fact, I suspect graphics preferences may be the cause of decreased performance for many with that experience, through no fault of their own.  At least with some new releases, I have to go into the deep details of graphics preferences and undo changes that seem to happen automatically. I can't begin to guess what settings might change behind the scenes if one only used the "Quality and Speed" slider. I sometimes find it necessary not merely to adjust the Advanced controls, but also to go into Hardware settings and disable stuff that magically gets enabled, such as antialiasing and anisotropic filtering.

[greek Wingtips]

Just so for our tekkies like Orca, I explain what happen, when I upgraded my firestorm my pc developed the BSD after countless probs it was firestorm who advised me to upgrade my graphics driver, doing so( ati radeon hd 4550) a DLL file called ATI 3x2 DLL was conflicting with firestorm, I had to revert back to an ealier viewer and also remove the latests ati driver, then all was OK, so there you go Orca hope that now answers your question, BTW this has been forwarded to firestorm tecs

[Paul Hexem]

Oh look, one of THESE threads again...

[greek Wingtips]

arrrrrr its mr Gadget again the thing that does never elaborate, would you like enlighten us with your statement :-)

[Perrie Juran]

 

---

greek Wingtips wrote:

its amazes me that when they update the viewers and sl they seem to think the most people have specs like powerful sports cars, when most have an average car, I have a decent pc not the lastest but high spec about 4 years old, tried to update to the new firestorm viewer only to be hit by problems upon problems, in the end after a day for battlly I had to revert back to the old viewer, and what was the prob, my PC could not handle it, could this be why many leave sl because they are fed up with the crashes, the rezzing the rebaking and all the crap that seems to be a constant problem, like to hear from you, plz plz dont tell me its only me, many had the same probs

---

No, we'd never say that it is only you. 

But tell me though, how often do you have to replace the tires on your car and do you complain when they only lasted four years?

Maybe technology is advancing too fast.  I don't know.  But I figured out several years ago that it is advancing and that I need to plan and be prepared for it or I can go live in the mountains like a hermit.

[Perrie Juran]

---

greek Wingtips wrote:

Just so for our tekkies like Orca, I explain what happen, when I upgraded my firestorm my pc developed the BSD after countless probs it was firestorm who advised me to upgrade my graphics driver, doing so( ati radeon hd 4550) a DLL file called ATI 3x2 DLL was conflicting with firestorm, I had to revert back to an ealier viewer and also remove the latests ati driver, then all was OK, so there you go Orca hope that now answers your question, BTW this has been forwarded to firestorm tecs

---

So did you post on the ATI Forums how crappy ATI drivers are?

[Paul Hexem]

---

greek Wingtips wrote:

arrrrrr its mr Gadget again the thing that does never elaborate, would you like enlighten us with your statement :-)

---

Every week, someone posts on the forums that their computer isn't good enough to run SL, and they want LL to stop bug fixes and feature enhancements.

And every week, the more patient forum members offer cheap upgrade options, or ways to optimize low graphics settings. At one point I got together with someone and offered to invest money, resources, and time to help a poster upgrade to a gaming rig. Nobody ever takes the advice, and my offer was never accepted.

So at this point, I think people just want to whine and don't want to solve the problem.

 

To follow your analogy; You wouldn't show up at the Indy 500 with a Toyota Corolla and then complain that the race should be slowed down so your junker can keep up. Why do people do it in SL?

And like Perrie pointed out... Even with that Toyota, you still need to replace and upgrade parts every few years to keep it running well.

[greek Wingtips]

so from your ideology, anyone's spec that dont match up to sl or viewers, has two choices one is get an upgrade or new pc thats taking they can afford too,if that cannot well what the hell they only poor people, yes we send all those that cannot afford it to the mountains. advancing with software need lots of testing and I dont see that with either viewers , to me things are rushed out and we the beta testers are the ones that suffer

[Finneli Felwitch]

So all the viewer tips that I posted just flew right past everyone?

Sure I could have said get a better computer but I do not know your financial status and it is non of my business.

Just look at what I posted, Second Life is a sandbox game, the viewers have a lot of test features on the hood. You disable a ton of stuff or be crazy and possibly make an Nvidia Titan scream in pain.

 

All it takes is a bit of reading the manuals to learn how to fix the problem. I know a lot of people this era do not like reading manuals to learn knew things. They feel intitled to the information upfront rather than working for it.

[greek Wingtips]

So why does it have to be the ATI driver at fault and not the code that LL write and test,there driver work perfect with all the 100s of software I use only sl, but if you have a vested interest in sl maybe an employee you would say that,

[greek Wingtips]

you correct in showing those tips and we are grateful and would work for lots of other folks I taking them down as notes for future,

 

 

 

[Finneli Felwitch]

I know that when ever I run into an issue with a PC game, the techs always tell you to make sure you have the latest driver. Sadly that does not always fix the problem and often makes it worse. I remember running into issues with my ATI Radeon 9000 AGP card (before Second Life). At the time I the card was possibly 7 years old and the ATI techs told me to update my drivers, well these newer drivers do not work with old cards and so it made the problem worse. 

Don't trust the manufacturer suggestions, before updating to new drivers, read the release notes to see what bugs are fixed and what bugs are not. Keep in mind that there are 3rd part unoffical driver versions that sometimes can be better than the version made by the manufacturer.

It is a pain, such is the experience of owning a computer, one moment it works and the next it is broken. 

[Perrie Juran]

---

greek Wingtips wrote:

so from your ideology, anyone's spec that dont match up to sl or viewers, has two choices one is get an upgrade or new pc thats taking they can afford too,if that cannot well what the hell they only poor people, yes we send all those that cannot afford it to the mountains.

---

Bottom line is I am not going to ask them to stop advancing if I can't keep up.  No one likes getting left behind.  I understand that.  But it is something that happens in life.  I wish it weren't so but life isn't always fair.  I have no desire to exclude any one.  That certainly is not my point.

 

---

advancing with software need lots of testing and I dont see that with either viewers , to me things are rushed out and we the beta testers are the ones that suffer

---

 

Have you ever  noticed the full name for Linden Lab,  Linden Research, Inc., d/b/a Linden Lab? 

Second Life has always been from its inception an experiment and we have all always been guinea pigs and beta testers.  It comes with the territory.

 

 

eta:  shpelling

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

greek Wingtips wrote:

So why does it have to be the ATI driver at fault and not the code that LL write and test,there driver work perfect with all the 100s of software I use only sl, but if you have a vested interest in sl maybe an employee you would say that,

---

I AM NOT AN EMPLOYEE OF LL NOR AM I AN INVESTOR.

Like you, I am a Resident of Second Life. 

And I have poked my fair share of jabs at LL myself.

 

Regarding ATI, my daughter has a $300 card she worked and saved for.  And for some dumb reason it will not run Morrowind.  One game out of several she plays.  Who do I point my finger at?

 

 

[greek Wingtips]

well I end it now, only to say I do pay for this game so one is entitled to complain if I spend more time fixing bugs then playing the game, and with that I leave it there

[Paul Hexem]

---

Finneli Felwitch wrote:

So all the viewer tips that I posted just flew right past everyone?

Sure I could have said get a better computer but I do not know your financial status and it is non of my business.

Just look at what I posted, Second Life is a sandbox game, the viewers have a lot of test features on the hood. You disable a ton of stuff or be crazy and possibly make an Nvidia Titan scream in pain.

 

All it takes is a bit of reading the manuals to learn how to fix the problem. I know a lot of people this era do not like reading manuals to learn knew things. They feel intitled to the information upfront rather than working for it.

---

Exactly my point.

[Orca Flotta]

No point anymore, she left the building already. Prolly figured she didn't get the sympathy she hoped for, and preferred to throw a hissy fit and chicken out before the situation got worse for her.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Gadget Portal wrote:

---

Finneli Felwitch wrote:

So all the viewer tips that I posted just flew right past everyone?

Sure I could have said get a better computer but I do not know your financial status and it is non of my business.

Just look at what I posted, Second Life is a sandbox game, the viewers have a lot of test features on the hood. You disable a ton of stuff or be crazy and possibly make an Nvidia Titan scream in pain.

 

All it takes is a bit of reading the manuals to learn how to fix the problem. I know a lot of people this era do not like reading manuals to learn knew things. They feel intitled to the information upfront rather than working for it.

---

Exactly my point.

---

I can't speak from experience, only what I have gleaned from reading, but SL with its dynamic content can (and usually does) require more technical understanding then other MMPORGS with their static content. 

Generally speaking, SL will run good for any one who downloads it and Logs in.  But if you want it to really sing, be prepared to do some learning.

I've got about 100 people on my friends list who know I try to keep informed and I am a 'go to' person when they are looking for information.  When they want to learn how to make a left handed sky hook they know I know where the info is.  But as to actual technical issues, it is really very rare I hear "Houston, we've got a problem."

It does suck when for some unknown reason it doesn't work right.  I've been there and dealt with it.

But when knowledge is available, like in this thread, to ignore it then becomes the user's problem.

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

greek Wingtips wrote:

So why does it have to be the ATI driver at fault and not the code that LL write and test,there driver work perfect with all the 100s of software I use only sl, but if you have a vested interest in sl maybe an employee you would say that,

---

Because most of the other 100s of software you use DON'T use OpenGL, the graphics protocol that Second LIfe uses. All indications are that ATI writes their OpenGL drivers by taping a paper lunch bag around a cat's head and having it walk around on a keyboard for a while. ATI is notorious for bad OpenGL drivers and has been for some time with many programs that use it.

To answer your next logical question, Second Life uses OpenGL because it runs on Macs and LInux machines as well as Windows machines and it allows the viewer to be open-source. (And it works just fine on Nvidia cards because Nvidia takes the paper bag off the cat's head before it writes the drivers.)

[TristanMercer]

ATI sucks...but what do you expect from AMD >->

Sure they may have the latest update in OpenGL drivers themselves but ATI cards render SL pathetically.

I always suggest Nvidia to anyone that is using SL. Get the most bang for your buck. I upgraded to a GTX 650ti recently. This latest Firestorm update saw my framerates go from an average of 60 to 85-90 on a near constant basis.

By the way...anyone with a decent hand in technology as you state you have greek should already know how bad ATI sucks.