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Flea Yatsenko

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Everything posted by Flea Yatsenko

  1. My sales have been affected for over a month now and other people have had problems for far longer than that that have not been resolved yet. I think it is time to start thinking about plans that no longer include relying on the SLMP or in world search. The tools LL has provided are not good enough for merchants or customers any longer and it has become clear that fixing these issues is either beyond the scope of LL's current resources allocated towards SLMP (Ruby sucks and I have no idea why LL would choose it for SLMP when they have big plans on scaling Second Life) or that management no longer thinks that SLMP is worth the resources to turn it into a reliable e-commerce platform. The fact that Twitter dropped Ruby for Java and saw Java use a third of the CPU power of Ruby tells me that all the patching and code fixing in the world isn't going to rectifiy the issues with SLMP. We are at a time when we need an alternative, but LL has so many strong convenience factors with SLMP right now that it would be extremely difficult to move casual users to a new system like the previous XStreetSL one with terminals and magic boxes. At this point a competing Second Life commerce site would be suicide and a waste of time. Something new needs to be created.
  2. This has been going on for a while, but don't worry. There is a new banner today!
  3. At this point in time, you need an in world store. I have slowly been noticing that for nearly a week that my in world sales have been making up a bigger and bigger percentage of sales. You need SLURLS in your product listings too. Customers are already starting to give up on SLMP for purchasing. It's the only thing that has a good product search though. I think that a lot of people are using SLMP for search and then purchasing in world. Whether LL has done this on purpose or it's just happening from bad choices, if this continues it's going to be very hard to maintain an SL business if you don't have an in world presence and you solely depend on SLMP. If this weekend is an indication of how LL is managing the problems with SLMP, then I would say now is the time to find an in world store. You don't even really need your own parcel, you just need something to link to from SLMP (like a skybox store). Things were good for me when I switched to DD but the problems with SLMP right now seem to be very, very deep. There are alternatives to SLMP, some of them not on SL. A lot of people who are merchants on SLMP are completely unaware of them, and the worse things get, the more they're going to look into them. Management needs to realize the effects this is going to have on everything on the grid and that it needs to be a top priority to be fixed. People need to buy things to be happy in here. They need homes, builder's kits, etc. It's what keeps people in SL. Right now I think a lot of people are giving up on purchasing in SLMP because it just doesn't work most of the time for them. Imagine if you were a new user and you tried to purchasing things and it just didn't work. The first impression that would leave would be horrific. Here you are, spending virtual currency you (more than likely) just purchased (because you signed up recently) in an e-commerce ecosystem where sales time out, deliveries fail, etc. Would you trust that company with your money? I remember seeing someone throwing around a number suggesting they were getting 11,000+ new accounts a day. Yet concurency is shrinking. Why? Because Second Life is a great idea and it attracts a lot of people. But they come in here, try and buy things, have it fail, and they no longer trust anything and move on. It doesn't matter how many new accounts you get a day when your product is in a broken state. Getting people to sign up a lot is supposed to be the hardest part of a social platform, and LL is doing fantastic with it. It's when they step into the world and try to do things and purchase things that it all falls on its face and they leave to never log in again.
  4. Even if marketplace went read only and still allowed transactions for a week or so it would be fine if it ended up with LL making good progress towards fixing issues. At this point, I think that losing a week or two of sales and then having things get fixed would end up making you more money even if the marketplace was closed. The only problem is that if LL doesn't fix the marketplace in that time, then we lose out on sales and we don't get the chance to make them back up. I would even consider letting them raise their cut to 6% or 7% if it meant they could hire more people to get things fixed quicker. This is awful for the entire grid. If sales are failing, new users aren't going to stay around. It hurts user retention. Older users give up and stop spending L$, which means less satisified customers. Merchants can no longer then afford their in world shops, so they bail on those. This helps the grid shrink and the number of simulators to fall. I don't think the management of Linden Labs understands the negative effects the marketplace's performance has on everything. If you are a new user and you see products without prices that lead to the main page and products with the wrong images, you're never going to trust the marketplace as long as you stay in SL (and it probably won't be very long in that case).
  5. I don't think people are affected evenly by this or that they don't realize it's happening. For me, when I switched to DD, I have pretty much seen my sales double and I've been making around twice as much as normal. This month, it seems like all that's happened from DD has gone away. I will make more than I did before DD came out but that's probably because I've finally restructured my store and I've been adding things. Sales fluctuate, and I understand that. But when CommerceTeam releases an SLMP update that "fixes performance issues", I see awesome sales for a day, then two days later I make a tenth of what I did (and nearly a tenth as many unique customers), it tells me something is wrong. Things were working really good for me when I swtiched to DD right away. I think the system was working better then, in the brief window when DD came out and before the crash of April 27th. If you haven't seen much change in your sales, did you see sales increase after switching to DD and then have them fall off? Or have you always been on Magic Boxes? I saw sales increase greatly after switching to DD and now they are not nearly as good as they were.
  6. You guys are all forgetting the awful sales performance and how everyone I talk to has their sales down 30% to 90%. From what I've seen, it seems like you need to have a lot of items (50+) to sell anything, and the people with an item or two in their stores aren't even selling a thing. I don't know if it's because people are getting our stuff for free or not. The way SLMP is programmed (see poorly), transactions are likely to fail at any step (customer clicks purchase button, SLMP website talks to asset server, taking money, giving product, etc) so it's foolish to say that it only happens on one step. It probably happens on all steps. If I had to make a guess as to what's happening, I would say that at least these things are happening: 1. Customers click the buy button, the marketplace dies, and they give up because they're afraid of being double billed 2. SLMP gives away products for free (documented as happening) 3. SLMP fails between the step of the customer clicking the buy button and the merchant getting a notification. Regardless of the cause, this is completely unacceptable. There are people who not only depend on SLMP income to pay for in world land, but there are people who also depend on SLMP income to pay real life bills.
  7. Well, remember that really bad crash we had on Friday April 27th and then again on April 30th? SLMP has never recovered. . My sales are down compared to the last few months as well. So are the other merchants I talk to. You are not alone. I don't think this is a matter of magic boxes or direct delivery being broken, but the thing that magic boxes and direct delivery talk to being broken. May 18th there was a marketplace release that dealt with "performance" issues and I saw my sales skyrocket to how they were before. They slowly tapered off. It makes me think the Commerce Team has an idea of what's wrong but they still aren't able to fix it. Things have been slow for about a month so far, and it's not good. LL needs to get SLMP off of the cloud and back into a local datacenter. It might be saving them money in server costs, but the lost revenue (if my sales are an indication) from SLMP transactions is probably costing them more money.If LL was really cheap on the hosting, they used AWS in Virginia (which is the cheapest one). So, that would mean a standard SLMP transaction would have to communicate several times between the data centers in California and the cloud server in Virginia. It's just speculation, but if that's the case it's no wonder things keep getting lost.
  8. Well, the links are all unique per store. Find the URL that looks like this: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/merchants/(some numbers)/store/dashboard and put the (some numbers) thing in this URL https://marketplace.secondlife.com/merchants/(some numbers)/reports/orders The grid seems like it's majorly messed up right now, I would avoid doing anything overly important. I am trying to upload mesh and seeing all sorts of errors I've never seen in my entire time in SL. Thigs like "BACKBONE_FAILURE" in error messages.
  9. What we need is an event which tells the script when the simulator has entered idling mode and when it has left it. If we don't get anything like that, we are going to end up with scripts polling region time dialation as soon as possible which isn't good scripting practice. The best way to script around this is to save your script state with a timestamp, enter idle state, and when you leave idle state calculate how much the data should have changed between the time it went idle and the time it left idle state. For example, if you have a breedable and hunger is supposed to grow by .1 every minute, you can either leave that in a timer, or you could wait for the region_idle event and save a timestamp. When you get the even which says region is no longer idle, you could grab another timestamp, find out how many minutes have passed, and then calculate how much hunger has changed. If you have an animal which is supposed to move around, you could freeze it when idle state is detected and when the sim gets the event that it's left idle state, move it to a random position within certain parameters and you'd be good to go. Without these events, we will end up with scripts relying on polling sim FPS as fast as they can, which isn't good at all. Can we get some sort of LSL events which tell us when the sim has entered idle state and when it has left idle state? It would make scripitng around this a lot easier as opposed to entirely depending on the simulator to do it for us. There will be times when a script will be hurt by running at lower FPS and it would be better to just code around the fact it's going to happen as opposed to taking the unexpected behavior.
  10. Well, I'm looking ahead beyond simply running a bunch of servers on a single machine. I don't know if you're aware how Amazon cloud works, but basically, the hardware is spread over a bunch of servers, but the software makes it look like it's one machine. In a situation where a sim could hold 300 avatars, it would be something like 100 indepent servers all on single cloud on a single OS. LL could then balance between hundreds of sims instead of however many they fit on a physical machine. LL would have to manage hardware so that there woudl be extra headroom, but that's how the other cloud/VPS services work. If 300 users logged into every sim in existence, then yes, LL would have major problems. But, if there were 300 in one sim and 50 in another, and someone logged into an idle one, the freshly un-idle one would then take resources from something else. Ideally, if the system became flooded, sims would have to start giving up what they took from other sims. So, that sim with 300 people would have to give up capacity to whatever sim it took it from if the sim it took it from couldn't find the resources elsewhere to make up for what the 300 AV sim took. I'm just having fun hoping that's the direction LL goes with their server infrastructure. You couldn't do something like that without region idling, and I am being overly optimistic hoping that some day we can see simulators that can say something along the lines of "60 AVs allowed, burstable up to 150 AVs" or somethig like that. If you have ever used a VPS service you would understand better what I am trying to say. The first time you have a VPS and you see your CPU usage go to 200% when you need it, it's awesome.
  11. I definitely think that LL is constantly working on things that we're not aware of. There is a lot of software behind SLMP besides the RoR front end, and that's the only thing most users see and file JIRAs for. It's the only part of the SLMP equation that LL barely keeps us informed on. If the software and hardware behind handling transactions is having problems, we have no idea. If they get changed, we have no idea. The fluctuations in sales that I see make too little sense to be just the market fluctuating. Last weekend was bad, the weekend before that was ok. Both were surrounded by statistical opposites on monday and friday. Release notes for anything never detail all of the changes. However, they usually include the important things that people need to know about because it will affect performance of the product they're using. LL's release notes only include a few JIRAs that were addressed. It would make no sense that it would take them on average 2 or 3 weeks to squash two or three bugs.LL isn't informing us of things that happen with the other software in the SLMP stack. We should at least get a weekly post in the forum on everything important that could affect sales that changes with software or hardware. If something massive comes up with the communications backend, they should tell us about it. This won't work if CTL doesn't have control over this, and I have a feeling that may be the case. I don't know how the internal structure of LL works. If I did, it'd be a lot easier to figure out what's going on. My sales data shows that sales dropped off very steeply for me April 30th and they never even recovered to average since then. The thing that is interesting from most of my data is that sales would crash, slowly ramp up linearly, and then crash again. That makes me think that LL would work on something and change things, it would crash SLMP sales (at least for some users) and it would slowly ramp back up. The next steps for SLMP should be fixing how transactions are handled. They need to be made more atomic and each step of a transaction should be able to be started from again should something fail, either automatically or by customer/merchant interaction. They also need to just get it stable and working faster, either by throwing more hardware at the problem or optimizing and fixing software. EDIT: They have to be doing things to the SLMP software stack that they're not telling us about. SLMP release notes for May 10th have no information about speed ups, yet CTL says that they saw a speedup from changes they made. I am starting to think that my DD sales were good because I was an early adopter and not a lot of people moved to DD. The big migration from MB to DD before the June 1st deadline probably had a ton of merchants changing over in a few months which completely flooded the system. I could see LL delaying the termination of MBs to make sure the switch to DD is a lot slower so they can deal with problems better. Shutting boxes off in such a time frame was a bad idea because it would force everyone to get DD all at once (probably at the last chance possible). There's a ton of products on SLMP (over 3.4 million listings created by my guesses from IDs), and to move a significant number of those to a new system in a few months wasn't a very good move.
  12. CTL says they know what's wrong and they're working on a fix. I have no idea how they're going to fix corrupted data unless they have backups.
  13. This is what I've been talking about with Magic Boxes being broken. You should be careful, because once it starts communicating with the website at full speed (and your sales get way better), it will stop working in a few days and send you a TRACKER_DEBUG message and your sales will be awful until you start with a clean magic box. It might start working after the scripts reset itself a bunch of times, but it will never be as good as when you put the items in the Magic Box the first time unless you start with a clean box. I toyed with dropping things in at certain times, staggering dropping things in, removing other items, and the order in which you put items into a magic box to see how they all affected sales, and there is no way a magic box is reliable. The thing with Magic Boxes and updating items in it and seeing those sales increase, it doesn't matter if the sales increase on a Tuesday, Saturday, or Sunday, it's going to start selling a lot faster after you put a new item in the box or you set up a clean Magic Box. You will see the items you drop in the box start selling far better for a few days, and then the sales will drop off. If you switch to DD (and the grid is healthy), your sales won't slow down and will keep going like that. That's been my experience with using DD since it came out and messing with Magic Boxes to get sales a lot higher for a few days (over half a year of testing theories and playing with Magic Boxes trying to get it to improve my sales). I really think that Magic Boxes have problems handling a large number of items. I don't know how many items you have in your store or how many magic boxes you have those items in but it makes a difference. From my experience DD (when everything is working properly, which has been by my sales data zero days since April 30th) will sell your items at the rate at which a Magic Box sells them the fastest, and DD will do it constantly provided the grid is working. This month has been bad for sales, but I have three months before that that says that DD gives significantly more income. Given my experience with DD and messing with Magic Boxes, when you have an extremely good day with a magic box, it's how things should normally be. The month after DD came out, I broke my daily sales record three times in a single month, and I've been selling in SL since late 2008.Before that, my record sales happened on a Wednessday after deleting half of my products from a magic box and setting up only the most expensive ones. I agree with Anne as well. A new product on DD that's good takes a week or two to start selling for me. Before, it would take months. I also made a new store under a new alt with similar products to what I sell as my mainstore (at similar prices). On my main store, it took about two months for sales to start (the market I'm entering is already high supply), and I had my first sale with DD in a few weeks. Things have been bad in SL since those crashes on April 30th (but sales patterns are picking up today), and IMO it doesn't matter if you went from DD to MB or MB to DD or you just opened an SLMP store, your SLMP sales (and probably in world) are going to be far below normal. Daily sales have been fluctuating and they seem to crash on a Monday or Friday, which makes a whole lot of sense when considering LL work schedule. Throw things together to get out of work on Friday and roll out new stuff on Monday which breaks things (or fix the cobbled together weekend quick fix you made on Friday). I wrote an ANS script that makes daily graphs of L$ earned and the number of transactions and I've been tracking it for a while now, and it's interesting to see the patterns that form. It makes it very clear when the grid isn't healthy, that's for sure.
  14. >Taking resources from another sim whilst it's idle sounds good, until that sim is no longer idle, when you want to start your own event, then the other busy sim which is chugging along great, has to give something up. Pretty much every other server in the world does this. Your iSP does it, web hosts do it. VPS hosts do it, game server hosts do it. Usually, you are guaranteed a flat level of performance. I have a VPS, and I am guaranteed 512MB of ram and that's what I pay for. I also have a quad core Xeon that I share with 20 people. That is what I pay for. When the other people on my physical machine are sitting idle, I can then use their RAM and their share of CPU. I pay for 512MB of ram and can get twice that if I need it. I pay to share a CPU with 20 people, but if they don't need it I can use all of it. This isn't about taking away, it's about giving more.
  15. Why? This is good for everyone except for poorly coded scripts. If your sim is heavily congested and lagging and the neighboring sims on your server are empty, you're going to be able to take that sims resources (that no one is using except for poorly coded scripts) and help reduce lag on your sim. This is an extremely common thing for servers to do. VPS servers do it, Amazon servers do it, shared hosting services do it, etc. It's extremely commonplace in the real world. If anything, people should be more upset that a load balancing measure like this hasn't been deployed earlier. I hope this is the first step towards LL moving towards a better load balanced cloud format for simulators. Imagine if sims were set up so that if you had a ton of temp prims, it would take ram from a sim that didn't need it and let you create more temp prims. Imagine a sim capable of holding 300 people because it's taking resources from empty idle sims. It would be glorious and it would really make SL more in line with MMOs which have significantly more than 30 people in an area at once. Do not sell this move short and as a way for LL to simply lower operating costs. The potential the move in this direction has is massive and if LL goes in the right direction with it, they could revolutionize the grid by lowering tier. With a properly implimented VPS/cloud style simulator host, they could easily create simulators where you could order the size (256x256m, 64x64m, 512x512m, etc) and the number of prims (500 to 50000) based on the resources allocated to your simulator. With a VPS host like Linode, you can change from a virtual server with 512MB of ram to one with 20GB of ram in about 10 minutes. There's no reason why LL couldn't get simulators to run on software that worked like Linodes, but instead of ram and HD space you'd change the size and number of prims your simulator supports freely. Maybe I'm just dreaming, but hopefully someone at LL already has this planned out or someone at LL reads this and thinks it's a good idea. A grid where you start with a 64x64m store with 1000 prims, and expand your sim for more money as your store grows would be revolutionary. You could easily get a sim of that size for $50 a month, and then build into something that costs significantly more.
  16. Yeah, things are really bad. I just keep making things in Blender and finishing them off and letting them sit on my HD. I suggest you wait as well. I was planning on uploading three big products today but I'm not going to risk asset issues with bad uploads and ruining my marketplace store with corruption just for three products. I had something similar happen to me a week or so ago, with the entire listing not updating. I guess LL has decided that you can't corrupt a database if it's read only and that is the solution to the problems for now. The great crash of April 27th 2012 still haunts us to this day. I suggest you just build for now and forget about making postings on SLMP until things stabilize, which might be a while.
  17. Honestly, a part of me thinks LL should just close the marketplace the way it is now. They should remove the commerce section of it and change it so that all products have SLURLs to purchase the product in world. How often do you see an in world purchase fail? Hardly ever. It would make the grid start growing again, it would kill off the awful recolored template market, and it would be great for the grid I think. A lot of people use SLMP because it's the best way to find products in SL. In world search is a joke, and if you're looking for specific products, you're screwed. I bet a lot of people don't care how it's delivered, they just want a better way to find things. SLMP provides that, but at the cost of all these reliability issues and problems. In my opinion, the market place is full of keyword spam and irrelevant junk because there's no risk to creating an SLMP store. Merchants should at least be able to afford a small 300 prim parcel with the income they make from a small store. If you can't do that, you're doing something wrong. I have no idea how good of an idea that is, if it's even a good idea. I've just been thinking of a product search engine or something like that for a little bit. If things are broken the best way to fix them is to simplify things until you can get them under control again, and removing the commerce section and creating a web application that focused on finding the best products and providing the best shopping experience seems like the smartest thing to do.
  18. So, I hope this is the first step into virtualizing servers and running load balancers like Linode uses. If simulators were allowed to burst CPU and burst RAM, we could see simulators support a lot more users at the same time, which would be very cool. I believe Linode can burst to double the CPU usage their physical CPUs provide if the other VPSes on the server are idle. A congested sim with a lot of people on it could really benefit from double the CPU power. Hopefully this is used to lower the cost of tier for everyone too. More sims on less hardware should mean lower cost to the end user. I hope management has the foresight to realize that that's what SL needs to turn around the trend in grid shrinkage.
  19. The intermediary step with CommerceLinden is the step where transactions fail and the merchant has no idea the transaction has happened. An SLMP transaction has two steps before the merchant is even attempted to be contacted. A failure in any of those steps results in a potential customer trying to make a sale, then having it fail, and you as a merchant having no idea it has happened because the message to deliver the product never makes it to the target. I'm also assuming that DD only notifies you after a request. We know Magic Boxes don't contact you until the product has been delivered (step 3). The question is when is a transaction reported as underway in transaction history? Is it when the potential customer clicks the button to purchase? Does it start at any one of those steps? My guess is that the order queue is the cause of most of these problems. If you end up in a queue with a bunch of Magic Boxes that are taking forever to communicate or the DD backend is flooded, the queue would eventually have to drop orders from the queue before the queue starts to consume more ram than the server running the queue has. If funds went directly to the merchant and the transaction failed with the current system, either LL would have to debit your account (no way I would ever trust them to do this properly) for the failed transaction after it gave you L$, or customers would have to request a refund or redelivery. From my experience, most merchants could care less about redelivering a product, so odds are a lot of merchants would just end up keeping customer's money while customers get ripped off. You would need a web page where customers could have the item redelivered, but only after verifying the order completed and the merchant has transaction history showing the transaction took place. I think that a system like that would be far more reliable, and it would still allow customers to have their own items redelivered. I think an ideal system would work like this 1. Customer presses button, creating a transaction. 2. Request is made to debit customer's account 3. L$ is sent to merchant Then, the next step would be completely independent of the previous. If the first three steps fail, the merchant is notified (as soon as the customer clicks on "buy"). As long as the merchant gets his L$, the customer could have the item redelivered because it's using the existing transaction database. 1. Delivery software reads transaction history of merchant to verify customer paid for item 2. Delivery software delivers item 3. Customer has delivery status page that says product delivered. Redelivery would involve checking against transaction history of the merchant and verifying the merchant was paid. With SLMP, I really think the biggest problem is that LL is adding layers of complexity that don't need to be there. LL has a habit of doing things like this.They need a system that uses more of the existing logging and data that works instead of throwing more and more databases and software at the problem. The forum reply textbox is a good example of LL doing this. Firefox and Chrome all come with spell checkers that work great. You type, if you misspell a word, it gets a red squiggle underneath it. LL has replaced the textbox that supports this with a rich text editor that hides the Firefox and Chrome spell checkers, and instead we get the LL spellcheck which, as many of you know, don't know words like "roadmap". Another example is Order History and Transaction history. Two areas that both log data and serve the same purpose, yet give different results (probably because they're separate databases or tables in a database). LL should be consilidating technology and creating a smaller, more efficient backend to the grid and SLMP. Instead, they just seem to be throwing layer upon layer of abstraction on top of their software stack to fix issues they have. So LL needs to have two instances of logging SLMP transactions, and yet another for accounts? Has LL stopped a thought about the fact that they have so many issues is that they are maintaning 3 times as many options as they need? Augment the avatar transaction history to also handle SLMP orders, and suddenly things are a lot easier. You have a CommerceTeam that can focus on improving the shopping experience, search results, adding features (like multiple SKUs in a listing) instead of trying to keep track of two databases for logging sales data. Sassy is definitely right about this process being transactional. As it stands, if one of the steps fail, the entire thing fails. If it was properly implemented, it wouldn't just stop if one part of the equation failed, It would offer merchants and customers work arounds and the ability to start where the process last left off. There is absolutely no reason why DD or MB (MB would have to poll a web URL to check the transaction occured) can only deliver the product after verifying a transaction occured. DD was LL's attempt at fixing this problem. My guess as to why they settled on this instead of actually fixing the problem is that the people behind SLMP don't have access to a lot of the code in the rest of the grid and they work independently of other teams. It was mentioned before that Brooke and Dakota can't tell us anything, because they simply don't know anything because other teams are working on the issues. This tells me that SLMP is in such a terrible place not because of the things that CommerceTeam has done, but because of management (or lack of). It is good everyone is trying to get Rodvik's attention to this instead of taking it out on CommerceTeam. Rodvik worked at EA and he probably doesn't have a lot of experience with e-commerce. LL needs to consider hiring an e-commerce guru that previously worked at a site like ebay or amazon.
  20. lol, I don't know about that. I don't know what else you guys want as proof that Magic Boxes drop events and requests without merchants knowing. The script delays everything by 20 seconds when it sends a notification email. It was also suggested that Magic Boxes use XML-RPC as well. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:LSL_XML-RPC >The current implementation of XML-RPC only allows ONE request to be queued on the front-end server (xmlrpc.secondlife.com) at a time. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-29? That's just as bad as the LSL script event queue getting filled up. Instead, XML-RPC lags, you get a new order and the old one just disappears. We've all seen how the backbone of SL works, and it's not good. I don't know, maybe it's just me. When things are working correctly at peak hours I get a few sales an hour. To say that there were no problems with Magic Boxes is to say that XML-RPC worked flawlessly, llEmail worked flawlessly, LSL scripts never exceeded the size of the event queue, and the XStreet/SLMP website worked flawlessly. Regardless, I don't want this to be about Magic Boxes vs Direct Delivery. The LSL code in Magic Boxes was great. How often did you see a script error? How often did you see it run out of memory? NEVER The people behind XStreet did a fantastic job with the LSL code. That's not my problem with boxes. My problem is the fact that the back end of marketplace is broken. It doesn't matter if you're using DD or Magic Boxes, things are going to be broken. Instead of fighting about what's what, can we find evidence and proof that the backend/backbone of the marketplace (and probably SL) is severely broken at this time? And demand LL actually tells us things instead of running around fighting with each other about which technology is better? When/if LL fixes the backbone and back end, we can talk about magic boxes vs DD. Whatever is happening now is affecting everyone regardless of what they use. Most of the SLMP problems don't even involve DD or MBs (like corrupted listing images, corrupted reviews, stale relevancy) so it's pointless to talk about how DD has destroyed everything. Correlation does not imply causation. DD coming out and everything else exploding doesn't mean DD was responsible for SL exploding. It might be, but it might not. You can't tell unless you have evidence. My point with talking about Magic Boxes all the time is that this isn't just a DD issue. There might be problems with DD as well, but right now everything else is majorly broken. Can you guys at least throw me a bone with the fact that everything is messed up? From my experience, the problem is that SLMP is broken and DD can work, but it can't work with SLMP broken. I used to think that DD fixed a lot of issues and the problem was magic boxes, but after talking with a lot of the people on this forum and seeing what's been happening these last (nearly!) two weeks, it's quite clear that the problem is much bigger than DD or MB and it doesn't matter which method you use It's going to be unreliable to the point where transactions fail, people get our products for free, and the money for the product either goes back to the customer or into LL's hands. I don't work for LL and I'm just a merchant. Everyone has a right to be mad. LL is treating us completely wrong, but getting mad over a part of the problem when the problem is significantly larger isn't going to accomplish what needs to be accomplished. I am just trying to remain objective without reaching for the pitchfork and jamming it in the face of everyone I think might be responsible. If everyone in this forum banded together and made reasonable demands from LL (like something as simple as a status update) instead of doom and gloom and rage, it would help everyone out and this would probably get fixed a lot quicker. The only thing I want out of SLMP is for sales to get better again and to be able to feel confident enough to make new listings and upload new products. My experience with magic boxes was bad and my experience with DD has been good, but not everyone shares the same experience. I think that it's an extremely bad choice by LL to phase out Magic Boxes and that merchants should be left with a choice of what works best for them. If everyone wants to stay fixated on DD and pin that as the root of all of the problems of Second Life, then go ahead. I wouldn't mind going back to lurking and it would be clear that nothing cohesive other than "death to DD" would ever come out of this forum. I am an extremely logical and non-emotional person and I'm not the type to get angry over things like this (even though my SL income is really important in my real life). Please don't assume that just because I am not angry about this that I am not wanting to see things change and wanting to have these problems go away. The most logical way to get what we all want out of LL is to make a list of sane demands (summary of what's wrong, estimates of when steps to fix it will be completed, another extension to MB cutoff, etc) together and to stop turning this into an anecdotal contest of who had the best experiences with DD and who had the best experiences with MBs.
  21. Well, the boxes would drop events when it's waiting 20 seconds after making an llEmail request. Emails wouldn't get sent, emails wouldn't get received. etc. If you've ever dealt with scripting and getting a website to communicate with an in world object and vice versa, you know that most of the LSL tools are extremely unreliable and will randomly give CAP errors or connection errors. But just because the boxes are broken does not mean that it's the only thing that is broken. I'm only saying I've found one problem out of a very, very long list. The biggest problem with magic boxes is that there is no reliable way to have in world objects communicate with websites and vice versa. Given my sales since April 30ths, DD and marketplace are far from perfect and right now I am far from happy with how things are going. But I am trying to find concrete examples of what is broken and have evidence to support it. Getting angry and mad at LL isn't going to make anything better given the way that LL behaves. It's rather clear that they are either understaffed and can't deal with our concerns or they don't care.
  22. From what I have seen, LL does not keep the money. Basically, here's what happens. A user tries to purchase an item.The item (I'm staying agnostic on the method of delivery, it seems like both can be affected by this) then delivers the item, but it fails to contact the SLMP website to let it know that the product was delivered.The website never hears from the Magic Box or DD, so it assumes the transaction has timed out and is partially failed.The website assumes the delivery has not gone through after a few hours, and refunds the customer their money from the intermediary account. This is the key factor because not a lot of customers are going to speak out and say they got your product for free. As a merchant, you only see a delivery partially failed that you didn't get paid for. This is what I am talking about when I say Magic Boxes fail without the user knowing (at least one of the ways). I am also pretty sure that Magic Boxes and the website fail to communicate before a transaction is even recorded for the merchant (think of it as a time when someone goes to purchase an item, they click on the purchase button and the website times out and they get a "connection to server was reset" message or something).I am aware that a lot of you question my thinking behind this, but I've not only seen proof that this is happening, but I've seen comments made by a customer who did purchase something and got it for free. It is not my evidence and it is not my customer so I am not going into details out of respect for the person who was brave enough to tell a merchant they got something for free and the merchant who has delivered proof that it happens. My explanation for what happens with Magic Boxes doing this makes absolutely perfect sense from a scripting and server standpoint, but no one knows enough about DD to make any hypothesis about it. How DD works is still a very big black box and no merchants have any clue about it. From the evidence I have seen, LL does not keep your L$, but they still give your product away for free which is just as bad. It is extremely damaging and it will only keep high quality modelers and programmers away and on sites like TurboSquid instead and it will instead encourage a grid full of recolored templates and in world builds. Of course, this doesn't mean they aren't keeping your money, I just haven't seen any proof of it yet. Obviously, the idea behind DD is to remove these communications limits that an LSL script creates. However, it seems like LL has not fixed these issues with DD as the problem is much deeper than Magic Boxes or Direct Delivery and instead depends on the servers and software that help all of the parts of Second Life communicate with each other. From what Dakota and Brooke have said, they've known about these issues for a while. Instead of admitting them, they have tried to sneak in a fix with a new feature. I don't think they expected anyone to notice but it sure seems like people are starting to figure it out. I don't know what more you guys want as proof that Magic Boxes are unreliable. DD is a step in the right direction but everything is so broken at this point that LL has taken one step forward and three steps back.
  23. I have a few of these today as well. My guess is that it's a new thing that's trying to deal with all of the awful things that are happening with SLMP. My most pessimistic guess is that it's a new bug that's cropped up and "aborted" has existed for a while, but things have finally exploded to the point where we get to see an illusive new error message. My most optimistic guess is that it's a new way of handling transactions that would normally fail (like give your product away for free). Maybe, and just maybe, LL is realizing that it's important to verify and have all parts of the system acknowledge each other so things don't malfunction and do things like give products away for free. The fact that merchants are starting to realize that things have been getting given away for free and that Magic Boxes have been silently failing and delivering products probably has LL putting something like that as a top priority. If a Linden came out and admitted that was happening, the rage and anger that would take over on this forum and with content creators would be large enough to seriously cause issues. Of course, all of this is conjecture. Take it as you like. If it helps, a customer purchased an item and it failed and they gave up, and another went to order two builders kits, one worked, and the other was aborted twice. It only shows up as "aborted" in orders->transaction history, Order history just shows it as undelivered.
  24. I'm not here to argue or anything, I'm just trying to make sense of what's going on since LL doesn't really tell us anything and it's up to us to figure things out. The thing I noticed with Magic Boxes was that they wouldn't tell you things were wrong. It wouldn't say transactions failed, it wouldn't tell you it tried to deliver an item and there was a problem with the delivery. It would just not do anything. I had a lot of people skeptical of the fact that there was a problem with magic boxes, and that it was extremely difficult to even know you had an issue because it was silent from the merchant's view of things. Sales would drop off a cliff at times when the grid was fine and other people were having good sales. I couldn't explain it, and when I'd ask other people they'd just say it was market fluctuations. I have a pretty big cataloge of products that span a wide range of markets. There's no way that all of the markets I'm in would suddenly fall in demand on the same exact day. I had a theory that LSL scripts were getting lagged and getting hung up on delays. Everything that happens in a script gets put on a queue (which is kind of like a line to buy tickets at a movie theater or something), and the simulator works its way through the queue to do what the script requests. The problem with magic boxes (at least my theory) is that when it would communicate through llEmail, it would delay the script for 20 seconds. The problem here is that when it's delayed like that, the simulator just lets things build up in the queue. The simulator has a limit to how many things can be in the queue, and once that limit is reached, it just starts ignoring things that get added. There's a lot of communication between the website and this script to verify things and make sure it's worked. If the thing to verify has failed, you're not getting any information back. I really think that things were getting lost in the LSL queue and it was causing things to silently fail. It doesn't seem like LL has anything built in for magic boxes that can't communcate with the website, and not hearing anything in return from the box probably caused all sorts of chaos. The biggest indicator of this to me is the fact that a Magic Box that couldn't contact the XStreet or SLMP website still showed up as functioning perfectly fine on the XStreet Magic Box status page. The big difference for me and DD is that when sales go bad for me, it seems like they go bad for everyone. This really tells me that the problem isn't DD or Magic Boxes, but another piece of software that's used in delivering products and handling transactions. So, technically, if a magic box had to talk to the website three times in a minute, the script would be in the delayed state for an entire minute. Anything that the script would get (communcations with the website, requests to transfer items, etc) and anything it would try and do (contact SLMP website, transfer an item, verify payment) would then get thrown into the queue durring that time and if the queue got too big, those events would just be ignored. DD was designed to get around this issue. The problem with DD right now seems to be that instead of having problems with simulators running LSL scripts, we're having problems with whatever handles the DD code executing it properly. My guess would be that the servers in charge of this are overloaded or affected by something. I can see where LL tried to solve the problem of Magic Boxes, but it looks to me that from the state of the grid, that LL has done nothing more than mitigated the problem from LSL scripts in simulators to a closed off system merchants have no control over. It is very interesting that Magic Box sales were booming at the same time my (and a few others I've talked to) DD sales were booming. My guess is that there's several layers of software that get transactions finished. I would guess you have DD or Magic Box software that talks to another piece of software that verifies transactions, takes L$, and transfers products. If DD and MB are both being affected at the same time, it seems a lot more likely that the problem isn't DD or MB, but the problem is far further upstream in the SLMP software stack or hardware stack. I really wish LL would just talk to us and tell us what's wrong and give a rough ETA of when things might return back to normal. I just want them to fix things soon. I am building up a ton of products in Blender that I'm terrified to upload and there's no way I'm touching my marketplace store right now. Migrating to DD from Magic Boxes with the grid like this or even updating products seems like playing Russian Roulette with your products. There is a ray of hope throughout all of this, however. It means that Magic Box deliveries have probably been extremely bugged and unreliable for a very long time, and failing without us as merchants knowing. When LL released the DD code, it seems like they might have actually fixed it for a little while, and then whatever happened on the 30th has unleashed a tsunami of fail which has hammer the grid and every bit of LL's datacenters. I think that when LL gets this fixed, there's a good chance that sales will be like they were last month. It's just mind blowing how messed up everything has to be.
  25. Yes, sales are bad. They have been bad since April 30th. It has nothing to do with DD itself and it has to do with the fact that the entire marketplace and grid are in really, really bad places right now. I know, I switched to DD as soon as it came out and I saw my sales double the month I did. The next month was a little behind the previous, and last month was a record breaker again, even with sales being very severely affected the last week of my fiscal month (part of the first month was when I figured out how to fix the broken Magic Boxes and I saw sales with Magic Boxes double). Since the 30th, my daily income has been about 50-75% lower than normal. I know Second Life is not well right now. Look at some of the threads and JIRAs. Broken listings, teleports not working, objects rubber banding back after moving them in world, failures to login, corrupt product reviews, corrupt images, communcation systems failures.Look in more techincally focused areas and forums. We've seen rollouts have to be pulled back because they were causing massive crashes. A major crash on April 30th that exposed a bug from a routine maintenence procedure. The servers that run everything in datacenters are receiving entire OS upgrades. I'm not sticking up for LL. What they are putting us through is unacceptable, but it has nothing to do with DD. The software and hardware that runs the SLMP and Grid is where the problem lies. Today, I'm not getting any emails about product deliveries, yet products are getting delivered and I'm getting paid. It's also triggering ANS, when yesterday I was getting emails and no ANS. My sales are down too. I need this income for real life. But to say that sales are bad solely because of DD at a time when the grid is severely cripped is to view only a tiny sliver of what's wrong. Even if DD was working 100% of the time and was perfectly flawless software, how could you even expect it to work when everything else is so broken? I know consumer confidence is down. My confidence in the grid is extremely low myself. It's so low that I won't even upload new products, let alone make changes to marketplace listings. Sales have been bad for me. I know, I'm not immune. I'm not standing here talking down to anyone saying that everything is fine here while you're just having problems. Everyone I know who sells things is having problems. Huge problems. But you know what? Even with sales bad like this, after being on DD since it came out, I'm still on track to match average monthly sales with Magic Boxes. Magic Boxes are a lot less reliable than DD. I've been using DD since it came out a Magic Boxes for years before that, so I have experience with both. I am not confident in Magic Boxes at all. I had massive problems with them. The month before DD came out, I finally figured out how to fix them, but it involved resetting them up nearly every other day. When DD came out, I saw consistent sales that matched what Magic Boxes would do on a good day. The crappy Magic Boxes would always time out and give me a TRACKER_DEBUG message telling me the box couldn't talk to the website, and my sales would tank. I'd have to reset them up, remove them from the website, and all of that every couple of days. I know everyone is mad. I am mad too. But to pass judgement on DD (at a time when the entire grid is in chaos) because sales are bad is short sighted. When you had bad sales on a week when 3 out of 7 days were scheduled maintenence and another with an SLMP release which left it closed for several hours it shouldn't be a surprise that your sales are awful, whether you're selling items in world, selling them on SLMP with boxes, or selling on SLMP with DD. As for migrating now when the grid and SLMP are having these problems, DONT DO IT. When you make the upgrade, you have to edit your listings and you're going to reset or strongly affect your relevancy. With the grid broken like it is, you're not going to get customers to buy your things as fast and it's going to sit at the bottom of the list for a while. We still have about two weeks left for LL to hopefully get the grid back in order. You really should just avoid touching anything on the marketplace until the grid is in a better place (and hopefully not dead). If you are worried about MBs giving away your items for free, just unlist them for now.
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