Ayesha Askham

Just curious I must have missed something here I don't see any US holiday slated to cause a "No-Roll" week. Can anyone enlighten me?

Maestro Not a viewer issue since I routinely use Firestorm to connect to SL. What I HAVE observed is that the sim...8883 seems to be distinctly sluggish in several aspects and markedly slower than our last sim...9724. Whether the server type or server-faerm colocation is different I do not know. I do not see these issues on other Main Server sims in the 9500-9800 range. If the issue persists I may restart the region to another server and see what results. ETA: Restarted sim to 8957...ping actually worse, around 220ms. Checked another Main Server Homestead sim 9096, Mysterious Isle...sim ping around 30-50ms lower, as it should be for my location in the UK. What is going on with your colocations? Restarted Woods of Heaven to sim 9911. Sim ping back to normal at c.180ms. :smileyfrustrated:

Just a quick comment on today's Main Server Roll. After, I have noticed an increase in the severity of the "Interest List" bug phenomena, far more objects are failing to rez until one of the workarounds is used. This is possibly just "one of those things" that occurs with updates of the server software, but this is the first time that I have really noticed a change for the worse. I have had a similar reaction to this from others on my friendslist. Nothing else major apart from a noticeable slowing of reaction time for a "sit" animation to "take".

I am seeing some very odd phenomena in group IM. Primarily much worse (if you consider that possible) chat lag on larger groups. Difficulty in getting closed chats to stay closed as a result of above. Sudden large "dollops" of group chat, say 5 or 6 individual chats arriving at once. None of these phenomena are typical of the ubiquitous group chat lag. Looks like in attempting a fix to the Asset Servers, the tech broke some other Grid-Wide function.

Hi Perrie Your point about the Linden Devs spending time inworld is a telling one, and led to an interesting convo I had with a Linden employee who I cannot name. That individual pointed out that a good number of devs DO indeed come inworld, though the number that actually venture onto the Main Grid is quite small. The old saw that "If devs spent their time inworld nothing would get done" is utterly bankrupt...those Lindens that HAVE spent time inworld on Agni have more often than not gained a valuable insight into how their changes sometimes do not produce the results they confidently expect from their sojourns on Aditi. Such individuals are unfortunately rare. There are good folk at LL, I never doubted that. It is a shame that more do not have better insight. Edit to Add at 13:42 hr PST: D'Oh! I found all the missing messages (and several more) in the spam folder at my email supplier virgin media! Now all I need to do is find out WHY this has occurred and stop it happening again. Needless to say this totally exonerates Linden Lab. :smileyembarrassed:

OK Perrie Firstly I know of at least 2 others in my friends list who are seeing this issue with IMs, so with Imagin, I suppose that is only 3, so you might well argue that is not many but it is significant, given the sample size. Secondly, as I pointed out in my first post, it is only object and avatar IMs that are not received offline, inventory offers and group notices are fine. Thirdly I have checked spam and junk mail folders and the missing emails are not there. (I use MS Outlook). Finally, and this rankles, I am not in the habit of mythering on about SL failures. I only mention them when I have checked most if not all possible pratfalls beforehand. No, I have not filed a JIRA about this though I have raised a support ticket. Perhaps I should raise a JIRA...I'll consider that if all does not return to what passes for normal in SL in the next week.

Cincia I did not say that Linden employees did not need this break to be with their families. How foolish of you to believe I would think that! The next post did point out that most 24/7 services manage to maintain a skeleton staff with operational abilities through the holidays. I see no reason for Linden Lab to do otherwise. I do, I suppose tend to forget that the USA is a large country and travelling 500 miles is nothing unusual to meet up with family and distance equals time. In my view that simply makes contingency planning all the more important. The issue Imagin, I and many others have been seeing is not related to a simple failure on the principal holiday, it has been happening since the restarts were suspended and will most likely continue until they are begun again. As to the userbase not understanding LL, you are quite possibly correct, they don't. However when Philip Rosedale commenced SL and developed Linden Lab's function, he ought to have had a better understanding of his userbase even then. Matters have not improved in that regard since; though some of the Linden staff do clearly understand the userbase, it is a small minority.

Imagin Ah the "The Asset Server has failed to respond in a timely manner, object returned to sim" error! Yes I suspect the Asset Server is missing the ministrations of its Linden Lab techs. Seen a lot of that this last few days, and several others. Coupled with the fact that I no longer get avatar or object IMs to email if offline (despite inventory offers and group notices coming through as normal), it is clear that the backbone of SL wobbles badly if the LL techs aren't there to hold its virtual hand. I guess we will have to wait until the New Year holidays are done and what passes for normality at Linden Lab resumes. I really do think that LL supposes that no-one actually does anything at this time - presuming that we are all family-bound or in a Winter torpor, I suppose - another example of how badly they mis-understand their userbase.

Just adding my thoughts, having followed this contentious thread since its inception. There is a problem with SSA. This is a known issue. There were MANY problems with client-side baking as it used to be done. Iknow, I suffered them from time to time like most people. The issue now is HTTP textures. It seems that despite people having very high-spec PCs with good graphics, and apparently good hard-wired internet connections, still they have baking issues. The culprit appears (and I say appears since I do not think there is yet any categoric proof of it) to be how these HTTP textures are handled by our modems/routers. Some brands of hardware seem far more able to handle these than others. Turning off HTTP textures for me resulted in excruciatingly slow texture download, it doesn't for many. Just what the answer is I do not know but I very much doubt that Linden Lab are either a) unaware of the issue or b) doing nothing. Experience with The Lab suggests that silence on a topic does not indicate inaction...just bad communication, something at which Linden Lab excel. Just as the "Interest List" problems were created as Linden Lab sought a solution for another; the HTTP texture/ SSA problem will be ameliorated and perhaps cured, but it will take time and test many folks' patience.

Dante Your point about us being LL's "customers" is one that has been made hundreds of times previously. LL do not, and have never (to my knowledge) accepted that residents of SL are their customers, even those of us that pay for virtual land and/or have Premium accounts. At best we are "users" of SL to them. LL have never been in any way open with their communication with their userbase (Oz Linden's Open-Source interaction with the TPV developers is a different matter altogether), at least not in over 6 years to my knowledge. Often an obscure security connection is cited, but more often it is simply that they believe that they do not owe us an explanation for a given action. The bottom line is that LL believe that they can do as they damn well please...and we either like it or leave. End of story.

Imagin I think we've been here before, except they had the excuse of it being a weekend. I suppose the Ninja editors will be at work soon.

Caleb Peculiar. Firstly the stream is apparently showing as up but there is nothing from the server so it is not SL! I checked it independently of SL. Secondly the lack of avatar sounds was due to several items not being attached after the second relog..6 in total including the walk sound assist. As to the crash it was almost certainly viewer, not server. I didn't get the "You have been logged out of Second Life" message. So apart from the oddities of unworn inventory, which must have occurred on the TP back from Pine Wood (Magnum RC) and I subsequently re-attached, there is no reproducible or tangible issue, sorry to have yelled "FIRE". :smileyembarrassed:

Maestro There's trouble at 't Mill. Sim No.9724, Woods of Heaven, just restarted to SL version 13.11.22.284268. First login reulted in a crash after teleporting out successfully but on return unable to move. Second login TP out successful TP back no stream sound though stream info showing in local and no AO walk sound or other avatar sounds though all other sounds playing as normal. All sounds including stream and AO walk play normally on a Magnum sim.

Imagin I know that as the post currently stands the Inventory Maintenance seems to begin on the 7th...but if you look at what was originally posted, it actually was started 24hours earlier on the 6th, not the 7th. A bit of Linden Ninja editing was used: Originally: [postED 10:03 PM PST, 06 December 2013] We are currently performing unscheduled inventory maintenance. But finally: [postED 10:03 PM PST, 07 December 2013] We are currently performing unscheduled inventory maintenance. :smileysurprised: I know it is of little importance but it is just so blatant.

Sphinxy: You will, no doubt notice the current postings on the Grid Status Page. You see? We were complaining about something that hadn't even started, it seems. GSP has their own TARDIS, I think. [RESOLVED] Unscheduled Inventory Maintenance Posted by Status Desk on December 8th, 2013 at 01:00 am PST [RESOLVED 1:00 AM PST, 08 December 2013] The unscheduled inventory maintenance is now complete. [postED 10:03 PM PST, 07 December 2013] We are currently performing unscheduled inventory maintenance. During this time, some residents may be logged off and will be temporarily unable to log in, or experience inventory loading issues. This maintenance may also disrupt transactions. Please refrain from transacting with L$ or rezzing valuable (no-copy) items until the all-clear is given. Please check back here for updates. It is instructive to compare this with the original post. :smileysurprised:

Maestro I am beginning to think that touch-sensitive scripted objects are either not responding or only responding slowly on Magnum RC sims. Elsewhere there are reports (see the thread) of auto-return-time being broken. This needs to be investigated ASAP on Monday.

Gadget Is this broken return time issue on RC channel sims? I have also noticed that touch sensitive scripted objects are either responding slowly or not at all on some RC channel sims. It looks to me like it was not just some script functions that were altered in the last round of server versions.

Imagin It is now 12 hours after the apparent start of this maintenance and according to the GSP it is still not resolved. Now either LL GSP cleared staff have now gone home and left the kettle boiling ot the matter is worse than we dare think (horrors, surely not?). It is standard practice for LL not to keep us appraised of these matters - according to some it is none of our business(!)

Lindens: Scheduled Live Chat & Support Case MaintenancePosted by Status Desk on December 6th, 2013 at 08:34 am PST [POSTED 7:30 AM PST, 06 December 2013] We will undergo scheduled maintenance to our Live Chat and Case Submission support systems Saturday, 7 December from 9:00 PM PDT to 9:30 PM PST. Some residents may be unable to connect or experience delays connecting to Live Chat or Case Submissions during this time. Saturday, 7 December from 9:00 PM PDT to 9:30 PM PST. PDT to PST? Really?? And you expect your users to take you seriously as professionals??

@Maestro Following on from Perries's complaint about the GSP, I have another apparently unresolved, perhaps unstarted piece of work: [postED] Scheduled System Maintenance Posted by Status Desk on December 4th, 2013 at 07:04 pm PST [postED 6:01 PM PST, 04 December 2013] We will be undergoing scheduled server maintenance Thursday December 5, 2013 beginning at 6:00 AM PST. During this time, such services as Billing, Destinations Guide, Facebook logins from the viewer, Land Store, and my.secondlife.com will be affected. Please check back here for updates. Still not resolved/updated or cancelled...Could you jog the GSP staff's elbow/ wake them up/ get something done, please, Maestro? Considering I found the Destination guide working every time I tried it, I wonder if the work was never started.

Orca You are having a Giraffe, Yes? You have been around SL long enough to know what this means, surely? It is a Tuesday...Main Server sims are being restarted...your chosen login point is currently down, that is all! Worry not, all will be well in about 30 minutes. Of course if it isn't it means there has been another SL SNAFU, but that never happens, does it? :smileytongue: And Yes, I am trawling the forums while my home sim is being rolled!

Theresa Again, your points are valid as far as they go. The routes to the simservers I have measured WERE different when I tested them, so what that shows I'm not sure.:smileyfrustrated: ETA: Of course it helps to thinks while posting...I never did find out if the sims I restarted my region to were on different paths...I assume that's what you were referring to, Theresa. It actually worries me more that you found them to be the same...perhaps it was just a bad host. The ones I was referring to were sims I visited when the high Ping issue started for me a few weeks back. The issue with the number of http connections IS a problem for a number of router designs, and that issue is well documented, though I don't have the url to hand. Turning http texture get off causes a severe performance hit for many (it does for me) so it is a case of "out of the frying pan into the fire" really. Reducing the MaxMesh thingy is a real "fail" for me, it causes too many other issues.:smileysurprised: The routes across the pond may well be different depending on where you start from, all I know is that all the routes I have had data for from Western Europe use Abovenet.

Theresa I agree with your analysis up to a point, packet loss can indeed cause these issues, especially repeated lines of chat both local and IM. The sound buffer issue is not simply packet-loss related, indeed I have encountered it while seeing zero packet loss. The issues with excessive ping times to certain European and overseas countries from the USA is by no means solely limited to the users' ISPs. While it always appears that ZayoCC (Abovenet) is at the root of the trouble, the variations between LL simulator hosts implies another factor which is within the Linden intranet. Whether there are ANY Transatlantic connections NOT operated by ZayoCC, I simply do not know. It might also be germane to wonder whether communication between Linden Lab datacentres is mediated by ZayoCC. ddTemin asks a related question on another thread in this forum, and it is likely that throttling of data is causing that phenomenon. There is no doubt (it is clearly and easily measurable) that Linden Lab is sending far more data down connections that used to be the case from the servers to the user and this is resulting in throttling at several stages within our connections. To say that it is beyond Linden Lab's ability to ameliorate this is just not correct and some efforts on their part are essential if the LL userbase is not to shrink still further. SL cannot survive if it becomes restricted to the USA. It is worth my adding that some parts of the USA are now seeing ping-time response issues with certain functions in SL.

Arduenn This phenomenon has been in SL for at least 3 years now. It is (so far as I know) a result of the sound-file buffer of the viewer overloading. I believe it began with Snowglobe-based viewers and was unfortunately ported over into the original V2 code. Firestorm devs attempted to solve this issue a few times, but only with limited success until Firestorm v4. Whether the current Linden viewer has the issue or not I do not know. I wonder if viewers such as Cool VL and Singularity also have the issue. It certainly occurs whether or not you use XP or Win 7. As to ameliorating the effect , one thing that might help is to reduce the range at which you perceive sounds in Prefs, otherwise just don't visit sims that run high numbers of sound files. It starts in-world, but as you note it affects UI sounds as well.

Wolf It seems that the Inventory Server/database maintenance has, in fact been performed. It may well be that this work precluded any other operations, but coupled with these intractable connectivity and sim-crossing issues that are on-going, it begins to look like LL technicians are flailing around without much of a clue as to what to do. A lack of co-ordinated, joined-up thinking is now a trade-mark of LL operations and I despair of them ever getting a handle on some of the things in SL that are patently broken. As CEO of this benighted company, Rod Humble must be chewing his hands off, after first writing a new CV.