Phil Deakins

You really need to accept that LL never did support OpenSim in any way other than moral support, and even that was many years ago. You also need to accept that LL did not cut off support for OpenSim. There was no support. They changed something for ALL third party viewers, which included the OpenSom one. And, finally, you need to accept that the ball is in OpenSim's court, and not in LL's court. OpenSim is free to do what the Firestorm people do - produce 2 viewer versions. It's simple, isn't it? The OpenSim people probably find it perfectly simple too, and that you are just one individual who is complaining alone. Don't forget that the OpenSim people stole form LL by reverse engineering the server code. And also don't forget that it was the OpenSim people who unintentionally caused copybotting in SL, together with all the problems that has caused for many people. So stop bleating about the fact that OpenSim has been affected by something that LL did.

GothGirl Demonia wrote: I find Second Life Jobs Stupid, no offense but unless you are getting paid $7.00 at least an hour or $5.00 its not really worthit as a Job it will never replace work you could be doing in Real Life making more money than you woudl in Second Life. You are making a very fundamental mistake. Wages everywhere relate to the cost of living in the places where they are paid. Wages paid in SL relate to the cost of living in SL, which is miniscule compared to RL. In most cases, you cannot equate SL wages with the RL cost of living. There are exceptions, of course. E.g. if you want somebody to design a sim for you, it's RL work, so you pay a suitable RL amount for it. But most work in SL is SL work and, for that, the cost of living in SL applies. If you want to rent land in SL, for instance, how much would it cost you per month? And how much would the same area of land in RL cost you per month? How does the cost of clothes in SL compare with the same clothes in RL? It's obvious that the cost of living in SL is miniscule when compared to the RL cost of living. Therefore, wages in SL are rightly miniscule when compared to RL wages. It's no good making the point that it's an RL person putting RL time in to do the SL work. That doesn't wash because they don't need to earn anything in SL to continue living there. They choose to do it because they want to earn some SL money so they can spend it in SL on SL living, and that's what SL wages rightly reflect.

Yes, I'm mistaking the pathfinder stuff with the tools that make Realms work. I assume that the pathfinder stuff is in LSL, whereas the Realms tools are actually tools. Is that right?

Thank you for that full explanation, Innula. So the idea that LL cut the OS viewer off is just a red herring because they didn't treat it any differently to the other TPVs. The OS people could make 2 versions, like the Firestorm people do, and all would be well.

Leia36 wrote: Facinating, so she built it from nothing, a school teacher in RL Once there was nothing. Now there is something. That something had to be built from nothing

So LL didn't support OpenSim, other than years ago, when they said they supported the effort - moral support. LL releases viewer code but I'm not up to date with how they deal with third party viewers. Does LL have a list of TPVs and only those viewers can be used with SL? If that's the case, has LL removed the OS viewer from the list? If LL is now preventing the OS viewer, there must be a reason, and it can't be merely that pathfinder exists, because other viewers are not prevented. Either way, OS continues - that's OpenSim itself - not a viewer. It never needed LL's cooperation so it seems to me that nothing has changed.

Question: The pathfinder tools were only going to be available to selected people - presumably those who actually build and apply for them. Is that still the case, or does everyone now have access to them?

Mircea Lobo wrote: @ Gadget Portal: Not really. I don't consider features bad because I don't use them. This one I consider useless because I couldn't think what anyone would use it for at all, but I see some people have plans. Only reason I'm upset about it is that "the package" came with removing OpenSim support, so I wanted to at least know what was so important to sacrifice it. Thought to be honest, like other people here stated, this might be better for OpenSim after all and set us free with our custom viewers. I'm curious as to what sort of support LL gave to OpenSim, other than moral support. I thought that OS was only a copy of SL that was written by the OS programmers (reverse engineered) and that LL has never released server code. They released viewer code but I don't think they released server code. Did that change? In my view, once the OS developers had repreoduced SL, they should have been off on their own, developing it quite seperately from SL - making a genuine alternative.

Qie Niangao wrote: If I were a flipper, I'd do the one-shot level of automation, just so I could hit all the auctions I wanted to bid on all within a few minutes of closing. The problem with trying to get any smarter about it is that there's no way of synchronizing your own clock with the auction server's, and everything happens in those last few minutes. An automated bidding program might get a chance to raise its own bid in response to a counterbid, but with imperfect knowledge of the cutoff time, it would be risky to place that earlier bid at anything less than the intended limit. Even if one thought some strategy of bidding could "psych out" the other bidders, there's not much time for the out-psyching to have an effect. As a flipper, it wouldn't matter if you lost most of the auctions you targeted, as long as you won some of them sometimes.

Pussycat Catnap wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: The better way is to enter a maximum amount you are willing to pay. If someone outbids your current bid, the system bids again for you, but only the smallest allowable increase. And it does that until it reaches your maximum. If somone outbids your maximum, you lost, but you're content that haven't paid more that you are willing to pay. I'm sure that the auction system operates a maximum. I'm sure it used to, anyway - unless my memory is totally wrong. But that logic only makes sense in a world of rational actors. There is no such thing. People will bid what they feel it is worth, what they are willing to pay. Then when they realize others have an interest as well, they go through a battle of emotions that leads to either resentment, despair and walking away, realizing it wasn't of interest, or fighting tooth and claw because the emotional value of it has just been driven up. Looks like the OP got caught in the tooth and claw, and didn't fight fast enough or hard enough. It does work though. It's up to the would-be buyer to, in the cold light of day, work out the maximum that s/he is willing to pay, and accept that they weren't willing to pay enough if they lose.

IvanTwin Rogers wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: People use the word "bot" in relation to anything concerning SL that's automated. But I wouldn't call an auto-bidder a bot because it's simply a programme. Having said that, search engine crawlers/spiders are sometimes called robots. In fact, a file called 'robots.txt' is a web standard for handling search engine spiders/crawlers/robots. It's just that, when it concerns SL, the word 'bot' is all too readily used, imo. I've written quite a lot of programmes that access the web and do various things, like searches on search engines, submitting auto-generated pages to search engines, fetching pages that appear in search results - mostly stuff to do with search engines - including SL's search engine. If I was writing an auto-bidder, it would automatically log in, fetch the relevant page, ascertain the current bid, place a bid if desireable, and so on. It would do everything necessary to watch the current bid and bid itself - up to a maximum, of course. In other words, it would automate what I would do by hand if I didn't have the programme and, because of that, I don't think LL would do anything to anyone who used such a programme in the auction. I may be wrong, but I doubt they would do anything. ha, your dont know to much second life, let me say my experience in my horrible english, is poor., well one day, i put my land for sale for 1 linden for error, lol, and in a 2 second a bot get the land inmediatly, 2 sec, tazz i lost my lovely land, they give my land back in 10k when i send a im to a horrible griefer seller for the error so second life have a automatic programs and to much peoples griefers and gold farmers use this programs for take advange of second life. No? I think it's the other way round. What you wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote. You are right about your english being poor though

You may be right, Qie, but you're not a flipper. If I were a flipper, I'd automate it.

People use the word "bot" in relation to anything concerning SL that's automated. But I wouldn't call an auto-bidder a bot because it's simply a programme. Having said that, search engine crawlers/spiders are sometimes called robots. In fact, a file called 'robots.txt' is a web standard for handling search engine spiders/crawlers/robots. It's just that, when it concerns SL, the word 'bot' is all too readily used, imo. I've written quite a lot of programmes that access the web and do various things, like searches on search engines, submitting auto-generated pages to search engines, fetching pages that appear in search results - mostly stuff to do with search engines - including SL's search engine. If I was writing an auto-bidder, it would automatically log in, fetch the relevant page, ascertain the current bid, place a bid if desireable, and so on. It would do everything necessary to watch the current bid and bid itself - up to a maximum, of course. In other words, it would automate what I would do by hand if I didn't have the programme and, because of that, I don't think LL would do anything to anyone who used such a programme in the auction. I may be wrong, but I doubt they would do anything.

Perrie Juran wrote: Cerise wrote: Those nearby adult sandboxes Goyer/Teagano/Bricker/Colborne are premium only. Subscribing isn't free, but it does make the problem go away. That's what it must be. A conspiracy by Linden Lab to get us to sign up for Premium so we can access grief free Sand Boxes! Utter nonsense! It's a conspircy by Linden Lab to get more people buying islands. That's what it is. Not dealing with all the griefing, I mean.

If you'd done it the better way, either you wouldn't have lost or it would have sold for more than you were willing to pay. Either way, you would have been content with the outcome. The better way is to enter a maximum amount you are willing to pay. If someone outbids your current bid, the system bids again for you, but only the smallest allowable increase. And it does that until it reaches your maximum. If somone outbids your maximum, you lost, but you're content that haven't paid more that you are willing to pay. I'm sure that the auction system operates a maximum. I'm sure it used to, anyway - unless my memory is totally wrong.

Griffin Ceawlin wrote: Fascinating. When can we expect the SPAM? A few weeks from now, when the post will be edited to include links to web pages. This software allows a time limit to be set for editing posts, after which a post cannot be changed. It should be turned on.

I hadn't read the rest of the thread when I wrote that not many minutes ago, and I agreed with the first few posts because 'they' is plural. In fact, when I'd posted it, I was astonished that there were already 5 pages of posts. I'd thought there were only a few - on page 1. But what I said about grammar following usage, was correct, as I later saw confirmed when I read the rest of the thread Perhaps dictionaries and such will become firm on the singular use of 'they'.

I didn't invent the 's/he' way of writing it but I do think it's useful. 'They' is plural but it is also used to refer to a single person. As some people have said, it's technically incorrect because it's plural, but the rules of language are dictated by they way people use the language - just like spelling is dicated by use and not by the dictionary. So, imo, in sentences like, "They said in the OP that they are going inworld" is a correct use of the word 'they' as far as actual usage is concerned. But if using 'they'; it would be much better to phrase it, "The OP said that they are going inworld", so that it is clearly meant as singular. It gets messy though with the word 'are' which, in this case, is the third person plural of the verb 'to be'. But we do use it in a third person singular sense, as in that sentence although not in grammar books. To be grammatically correct, the sentence would need to be something like, "He or she said that he or she is going inworld", which doesn't sound very good. Or He/she said that...." which would sound better. Grammar is not absolute. It is often correctly personal - especially puctuation.

I was thinking that you could write you thoughts about the survey not asking that question and they would get it. It may not make any difference but it's possible they could change the survey to include it. When the time comes, I will write what I think about things, of course.

I remember you making that point, but it seems like a age ago now. So there's no text box? What is the word "Other" there for then?

Meanie

It's not a game. It's a passtime. It's a system in whcih people pass time away doing all sorts of things, but it's not a game because there is no gameplay. Except for very tiny thing that Linden Lab recently introduced, Second Life does not have any way to 'play' it - no gameplay..

S/he said in the OP that s/he's going inworld, which is different to most students who are looking for information.

1974 Jean-Paul Sartre visits RAF leader Andreas Baader in prison That the Red Army Faction (a terrorist group in Germany) and not the Royal Air Force

Charolotte Caxton wrote: Oh no, I wasn't trying to stop it, I am a big fan of madness. I just wanted to hear Phil boss me around, rawr ~.:cattongue:. You like a bit of domination, eh? I'll try to remember that Now get the picture sorted out - pronto!