Poenald Palen

I guess I should mention that advertising is sort of a hard thing in SL due to a few factors. 1) most people don't travel much in SL and it is all in search, word of mouth, advertisments seen online or blogs, and checking things in the flesh that they see else where. 2)hang out in small numbers. A simulator, 256meterx256meter area (approx. 16 acres) basically is not in view and holds up to 40 people, most places being busy and only holding 20 at a time! Through out the day many visit, but number 3kicks in. 3) Textures don't fully load and there are usually lots of things to see. So, as far as advertising (by the definition) there is sort of no hope. I mean, as far as in world goes. Having said that, you can still try adn use what is there but maybe try to find out if it is worth it by seeing the traffic, testing if the image will load and see if visitors even notice. Even then, direct response can easily be measured with a few devices (using a different landing point for your Land marks that you place in a adboard and then having a collision door mat record the people droppng in) and then you have your own data to decide. This is part of marketing, recoding and tracking response. Not only that, but advertising coud be in your very own store to indicate products you have that are related to the one they are looking at, because some items may end up being placed logically but you find out that people who like one thing also like things in another catagory. A easy example could be advertising shoes where an outfit is. This sort of cross reference style of thing might work out well, but of course why just place an advert when you can place a purchase box or vendor! Either way, the boxes image is made to advertise this item as something else other than just simiply what it is, it is a different than usual box image for that product with a hint at why it is there. This is getting really a bit off from the purpose of advertising BUT I have heard some blogs do this with thier banner ads. They use thier own pages, thier own sections as a "product" to "advertise" to the customers and since they are not from an ad network, don't move and shout they are not blocked by ad software. Maybe the same works for SL? I guess the issue I see here is that there are not many offering Marketing data, as in basic response to an advertisment and in fact many will advocate (for good reason) using other things as a means to get sales. Advertising is hard to do, it barely works IF it even does (as far as in-world,) from the impression I get and have experienced myself. I gues SEM, SEO, Word of mouth, branding, marketing weighted on product to end user support and community are the general direction I have seen many go. They say to have groups, subsciption services for those who don't like to join groups, gifts or competitions for customers. The idea is to do whatever you can to get a customer and then hold onto them and hope they tell others or others seek the items they see others as having. Any time your wares, logo or whatever is seen this is a time your product is being branded BUT your conduct, activities with your customer community are all effecting things as a whole to make a experience that works and then people buy again, tell again, see/hear/experience it/the brand again and repeat it again. Sponsoring events is not advertising per se, but does get a billboard or a logo placement, for example. But this is much more of a social thing, not pure advertising because you are also helping the community feel better, be better and come together and cohere as a community....it is a broader thing than just a logo placement! You see what I mean, advertising is tought but other things are out there and some may be more powerfull anyway.

There is a guide for this at teh SL wiki. here is the link to the whole section that is related and all of it's guides: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Business,_Education,_and_Marketing I don't actively improve my business in SL, I am working very slowely on upgrades and even new products. So, I have no examples, stats or nifty charts of how things might improve. I haven't tried many avanues that I have seen. I noticed most SEO, pay tonnes for classifieds, rank higher in the places search tab via traffic numbers being high (for those looking for active places to hang out) and there are things you can join. All of this is not truly advertising and the main advertising I have heard about is on the marketplace website. I have heard very mixed responses on this, many try it and hate it because you don't get good direct response from the marketplaces banners, as far as the response being sales. But, some seem to do it constantly and seemed to have a good business going on. I guess that I think one way advertising is not really seen as advertising (but basically is) and has worked to draw my attention is products being seen by me, editied so I can find the maker and then I visit their profiles listed store! Not orthodox advertising, but is a method to find a store when you see somethng you like. In effect, the product that is seen is in of itself capable of being a billboard type of item. Not saying it is effective, but it is not exactly word of mouth because there is a lack of advocacy or communication at all between the customer and the prospect.

You ask for 2L, unless you made a mistake and meant instead 2,000L or 2000L...depending on your preference of punctuation. The period indicates 2. So, yeah...uh linden trees if you can and then there is finding some kind of thing like the cones or coins you teleport to different places to get money...I don't know them. Oh, there is maybe also Linden Realms, but I am not aware if it is still open. If you mean 2000L...well, then I can only suggest Linden Realms a lot, or do some work or service. Usually it costs money to start something. At least 10L to upload a texture or sculptie. But I can't think of anything that sells fast enough to earn it right away. If you can script then all you need is to make some scripts. LSL is sort of like javascript in some ways. If you are familiar with any scripting or programming you should easily be able to learn LSL. This requirse no money, all you need is to use your accounts inventory outbox. Tutorials are all on wiki.secondlife.com. Scripting is surely the one way to start a business with zero money invested, just your skills and the merchant outbox with a little bit of marketing and also maybe join groups in world and help people (sometimes for a small fee if the job is big enough just pitch or they may even offer money and ask...I don't know, I did this a long time ago without trying I just offered help and the guy asked if I would do the work and I got a few lindens when I sold him the finished work) but that was lucky and rare. But, non the less...you might find answering uestions or seeing others do this not only helps you learn but also may spur on product ideas. Some of them immediatly sellable to the person who raised the question in group! Even in world labor requires investment into clothes with some places requiring skins and so on. Even DJ's need sometimes to rent streams, pay for classes and hosts buy stuff to help them run events. Dancing, if you wish to do adult world stuff can also be an issue of having expenses. Any building takes at least 10L to upload some texture in order to be unique...at least a logo or something. But, free textures plus some prims may also work....I just can't imagine what is not already made. But, making something for 2000L? Not sure what it could be. I do know large builds can sometimes earn. But I am not sure how fast they sell. I have seen race tracks for 2000L+ and maybe you might be able to upload a road texture and put it on a megaprim or a few. Then, you build up the edges and fences, buildings. I bet I could build on in a day...they are no to difficult. You would have to build it and package it...this means you would need rez faux or some free version. I never did this because I am working on them as part of a more complex system with cars that react to surfaces. Also, I don't want to deal with the pain of the packaging script. I have a feeling teh large build unpacker that is free will fail. Just a feeling, plus I want to make my own due to allowing options etc. But, if you can simply make one and pack, unpack using the free large build unpack scripts...well, that might work. But, that is more or less 10-50L upload for textures because the simplest way to build is via a track drawn/painted on a megaprim and then some stuff built..which also takes a few textures. You might not sell one single one though....then again you might sell several. I don't know. There is an affiliate vendor for high priced drag strip one guy has...if you somehow know someone who owns a sim or a length of a sim you might be able to sell him it? See, he would already have bought it if he wanted it lol. If you got good at raciing you might be able to win money at the race tracks. Demo days, demo derby or something like that is maybe the lowest cost. Pure stock was only like 200L for the car...I think. It will all be different these days I bet. It's been over a year since I checked out racing in SL in depth enough. You will most likely need a fast computer and fast internet connection to win any races that allow any car...plus practice time. Speed controlled or limited ones will offer a fairer chance...unless you havea really quick PC and net connection, then you will benifit more in open class or faster racing series. I don't know which race tracks have free cars to race to get started with....uh, usually you buy them for at least 100L and usually more. But, if you are good the winnings used to be thousands for some races, hundreds for others. Drag racing may be your best bet, it is a tad easier..still sort of is a fastest PC wins sort of deal. They have free bikes at Nina Roars place...uh...if it is still around, I can't remember the name...NRRA was the group...I think...but they have a sim and so on...uh, anyway check out drag racing bikes to see if you have a chance at reacting fast enough usuing free rezr's and demo's if you want. But, you may not find one that is free to enter, but do ask because I think they do have some every no and then and some even allowed the rezzer so you race with a fair chance via the same vehicles....but at least you may try your hand, ask around and look at the leader boards or whateve they have to learn times and ask for lowering lag tips even if you have a really fast PC. Join groups ask, they know more than I do. You might find something you can win money at and winnings can be thousands or just hundreds. There is also sponsorship for cars...but that is tricky. Usually I think most people sponser thier own cars with thier company or a friends. Competitions all seem to require purchasing something. Speed builds pay very little. I won third place once, it paid like 50L lol. But, that could then be invested in texture or mesh uploads! But, then again...it was a speed build so only took a very small amount of time. Besides, mesh requires you to put payment on file. Sculpts can be made via Blender and primstar 1.0 (the free version) and to be honest I can't think of anything that is quick to build that could earn 2000L. In fact, the thing i know is cars and bikes. Basically...well, you have to make over 10 prims usually. This means you end up needing 100L to upload the sculpt maps and textures to build whatever it is. Then, you also have to realise stuff doesn't sell for much and clothes seem to be a better seller. So, if you can make...uh, sometimes good with sculpts that is clothing or a accessorie....prices seem to be around 100-300L for most stuff in teh top selling 100 or so items at marketplace.secondlife.com. So...yeah, it can be tough with all the competition, but clothing may only be like 3 texture uploads and if you get the diffuse map texture right on your sculpties or use white mostly...well, it is colorable via script and free color change scripts are around. You can maybe look at the script library and figure out an object you can build that significantly adds to the scripts offerings in a way that would compel people to purchase over making thier own. For instance, there is a free surf board prefab out there. if you go this and made some neat textures for it you may be able to sell it if you scripted it. To be honest though....that is hard to do. And if you have the scripting skills...well, you are better off just doing custom scripting for someone for dirt cheap...which would be 2000L maybe...people charge that for a a few hours of work. Programmers else where on the web demand much higher prices and so do they in SL. Make it, sell it and direct your requesting customer to the marketplace listing! Then, you retain rights and simply sell it to as many as want to buy it for 2000L or so...depneding on how good it is and how complex etc. Just look at the marketplace, tonnes of library scripts for free packaged there and some for low cost that are similar or simple. Some cost more. A car script is around 2000L or so, up to over 5000L for a decent pack with a few scripts to handle the things people like. Once again, if you can do that much in a day though...well, you may be able to make more elsewhere. for more money and then just buy lindens. But, if it is a bank issue or CC issue....well, then you may want to program stuff in world, pack and sell it with instructions and also look for custom work right here on the forums. gotta be the only way with zero investment. Just be smarter, thier CC can only buy them brian made products and not the brains to make the stuff...OK, technically they can pay a teacher lol. Study LSL at teh wiki and maybe even take in world classes (free, usually tip/donation based) or apply already existing programming...do what others can't and they need you so they pay for your stuff! Ask in groups for help now and then maybe, and offer abit. There was a college of scripting, music and whatever else...I can't remember the name. They have a self paced learning thing. I already knew programming a bit (learned a bit of BASIC, Turbopascal and learned some object oriented stuff....uh, not so useful for SL and I didn't learn much. But the basics from a javascipt class may help you IF youy already learned it....if not, just go directly to LSL with hope that javascript and basic event driven programming knowledge, flow control, operator logic, and so on will help with HTML5, Javascript and maybe even others because you can use them to set up websites or even the basic logic and such helps with app programming...all of these may be interesting and possibly earn money or may help with a career shift...if you are good or enjoy it that is.

I have thought a bit about this, though I will add...I am not a furniture customer! I have bought some before...I think....I didn't realy worry because price was more an issue. To be honest, I think people buy on looks and style of the item. Features are for those who are looking for those features. Price is always in ratio to what looks right with your stuff or what you plan on making your place look like, right? If they use it to sit on...well, you are able to (as a customer) use: 1. Ao's built in. Preferable because it is styled for your AO and you chose that because your body language or movement was important to you. You like it...maybe. 2. You can use default or built in. The place may not be used much or is looked at breifly by guests before they focus on movies, other avatars or move onto more fun things to do during thier stay. For stores with wishes to have couches....uh, they are not even needed buy by really serious role play shoppers...unless somehow they offer or invite something fun or interesting. 3. You may not even be able to run the scripts and animations..landlord will notn allow scripts turned on!! 4. Heck, the item can have pose balls placed above it or a multi-avatar animator rez pose balls or take control or whatever method. The usage of an item is not dependent on scripted built in stuff and they may not like your built in's unless they top what is already out there! 5. You want a full perms item to fire out of a cannon at your neighbour because he left a couch on your property at 500 feet in the air in the middle of your build...you hate him and want a cheap couch to fire out of you custom made gun...animations? wut? No mods? More than 10L? Not interested! Same deal if you wanted to animate it all yourself because you do animate but do not build. In this case, you go the route of using clear prims or pose balls that turn clear. So, no need for scripts or even mod perms! So...it depends. IF they want a certain style...deal breaker. No roccoco for the geometric contemporary living room please! Ok, cost is another deal breaker...but....usually land tier fees outweigh all costs. There is the 300L stipend limit for those wishing to be limited and are strong when they see a must have item....but...how can a furniture peice be must-have-able? I can only think that rare items, no on else makes one or it is totaly ugly gets it. But, scripting and animations may also make some items must haves and may even convert a person over to throw out thier old stuff....hey, maybe queen anne is acceptable...though not as interesting as roccoco stuff they have...just....adequite, and worth the swap. It depends. But, once again. I don't shop. I only see items pop up on the marketplace as popular that have couples poses for cuddling and kissing etc. I see fun items with chill out places...but not up high on the popularity scale. If you see 3 beanbags, one has more of every feature and looks good enough and is priced lower than the better looking one....well, you might buy it because you can use it somewhere. If you are into some adult activities you wlil likely already have a system...so...is this item unique in it's arrangements to where it is hard to recline or otherwise be perched/placed or lean on? You see, cuddling may benifit from built in in some things...this circle of "It depends"Always continues and how it relates to your question seems to only be based on one thing....does the peice benifit from custom work due to bad looks or inability to find something that works well with it? Do you have an idea that makes it a different type of item, a different market than people who just sit or stand at a peice? If it is roleplay, then how many would use this? That is a more exact questions...."how many would like roleplay furniture with which you can interact?"is sort of the question you may need to ask more. Gosh, I don't know really....this is something you need to figure out and my thinking is based on my dilema with my vehicles! If I add a set of animations to interact with the car, interact with others around the car is this going to help sell it? I basically figure that most can use a product that is NOT made for the car specifically to have fun. Which is fine. I could still make one and include it as a freebie so people can rez the components, place the pose balls or clear (but clickable part somewhere....a HUD even...they invite others to be animated or temporarily make sitting locations pose balls visable cia this HUD?) and so on and on....and on....and on. It is hard to tell. A quick survey? But, this is maybe something they may like in theory...some buy, they never use it and basically I end up with stuff sitting around because word of mouth died out....just wasted time! lol. So, this is my thinking. Looks, the right style catagory, and then functions last. Basic industry standard functions IF they need to be included because of the specific needs of the build/object may work better if custom. Can they use a third party or do they already...can I even make a third party type solution outside of it and use it with multiple items and STILL be offering more features in the package? It is so simple of a formula, there is no need for a flow chart or diagram etc. Three questions! P.S. One more annoyance and naysaying about to much custom animation investiment...avatars are different sizes and hands still go through items. So generic non touching stuff, stuff that is easily adjusted etc. is the focus of any product that allows interaction with an object. This limits and, if the desire to overcome obvious obstacles, complicates creation of extra features to do with interaction that are animation based. Though, there is little competition IF you can figure it out and put in the time with arm movementshat blend...as an example.

LL makes money selling land that allows prims to be rezz'd. Sandboxes are free, true. But, they are also just not allowing some things and some things are impractical. This pushes people to rent. Those landlords take risk away from LL. LL has every monitary insentive to do oen of two things. You are sort of not considering some things, or are but think that there is no other way for LL. There is a controlled, easier to deal with (legally speaking) way. Do not allow anyone tomake content, or restrict selling. ONLY sellable content from LL hired (working at a physical location) and the same employees can handle making assets for any other LL projects...LL is NOT SECOND LIFE...this is the new way, the new focus. They simply hire some of you all to move to cali..oh...expensive..uh, forget cali...heck, just somewhere cheaper and close. They can have a lawyer team stay there, obviously lower wages with that to maybe? Maybe Arizona? Nevada? Oregan? Heck, Microsoft is in washington...seattle is a bit f a word famous place. Maybe people may like tomove there as well? Oregan is neat for bicycles. Arizona has been growing, pheonix is sprawled out and the weather is warm. Even some of the slopes and fun hiking and outdoors stuff up around Utah, Colorado or even just another place entirely...heck, india!? Venuzuala? They have artists all over the world, studios that already exist may also handle it...heck, that way they can use third parties for different projects and even have them compete and bid on projects!! Seariously....they don't need you IF they are to get into having ot review content!!! This is lawyer stuff, they are expensive!!! Yes, IMVU doe this already. But, they have a more restricted environment and have always had review and acceptability issues. I am not saying they will not do it....I am saying the philosophy of SL is different. But, to be honest I also can see how the "LL is NOT SL." argument as working in another way. Just add "This is not the old days. Snow Crash is just a freakin' book...you are NOT cyberpunks either..not for real...you don't destroy the system by ripping someones loafers!!" argument and I sort of agree. At one time SL was a free country. Then the FBI thretened them, so they sacrificed gambling, the DMCAct came along and they moved to make mesh (a larger threat due to almost exact likeness...things really did change there!) have PIOF and a statement signed via your interaction with a tutorial. You are supposed to know, it is NOT LL's fault now. Maybe some kind of similar agreement will be on the way anyway? It is just...well...basically WHY look at everything and then get into troubnle yourself? Tazer took LL to court! The copyright issues prove LL a forseer...or basically experiencer via tazer lawsuite) and if they didn't see it, it is not their fault. It is LESS lawyer talk, less money out for consultancy (or lower retaining fees or whatever) so...I mean, seriously. It is easier to simply get your own builders building or hire a studio that takes full responsability. But, that is what they do a little bit now. But it failed more or less. There are builders that throw up exact replicas, not just close to it the way many big game companies will handle non-sponsered or allowed vehicles. They make something that is a blend of a few, something in teh style catagory with a few hints of the era, tech type or whatever it is. I mean, a pair of jeans can be distinct via pocket sewing pattern, label logo (duh lol) and other features. Just make it different, viola...done! So...why doesn't LL just do that themselves? 90% of newer folks maynot care. They don't care about early adopter tech, they are late comers...SL is old news. Does LL really need 1000 different people selling 5 styles of jeans? Sure! Why? Why not! If you redce it to lower amounts via being more restrictive...well, it gets more difficult. I understand PIOF, and this is fine for most. I am not defending having no PIOF, I am simply stating that I think LL also have more options to solve the issue you speak of and make much more of a percent than what they do now. Though...I am not a studio boss in India pitching this! Just a hunch and a little look at LL's other dealings, direction and basically....you can only make so many user created worlds and the present projects are not flat blank landscapes...even SL took initernal developement. Do I need to even mention Linden Homes/Neighbourhods for premium? Do I need to mention thier adventure places, free gifts etc? Why do people think there is only ONE solution to a problem? IF it is continually a headache to deal with merchants and creators....maybe they will have another problem from the headache of this all and simply make a in house studio....heck, since many web hosts went on to make things like Wordpress and various propriatory in house CMS systems with easy web dev stuff....heck, maybe LL could come up with a 100 games, a wordpress 3D equivelent and hosting for these new 3D web places and throw all of SL out as a museum item to be visited...NO NEW CONTENT!!! No more headaches. Just a new future with your new version of 3D hosting...the real business of what SL is. Hosting places to have fun, hosting creative environments, hosting places to see and experience with more than just your eyes even...sounds, maybe even haptic feedback and smell(yes...more advanced and neater than teh smellovision jokes of the old days!)....maybe LL IS closer to the future than we think, maybe they ony wait for the tech to speed things up a bit...then SL gets less interesting as a place...the web is huge, if you want a killer app it will most likely be on a computer....in a browser...or at least that is where many applicitoins and computing is ending up. The cluster of processing power out there is begging for faster internet speeds.....you can't compete against the Web. It is the lion king of the Internet! Yes, SL is part of the internet...so is FTP, and other stuff...uh, like IRC or AIM chat or skype. The web browser is mighty, unstoppable...it even challanges the desktop! THink not? Nettops! NET tops....yes, they are connected (in the case of Googles Chrome) to the web. Cloud computing is a big household thing..or at least will be....you can't compete against that. Why would LL worry about competing? It is just waiting to see what is up. They see iPhones doing well...so, along compes interest in apps. So. In short. The web is mighty, it is all mighty of the Internetworks!!!! LL is not competing, it is only doing what it needs to do...one day SL will be a bride to the internet....they will merge, as our minds contents merge....as they all mingle and create new via Artificial Intelligent agent creation devices....we will see the web create, as it was created...thier will be light that is not seen anywhere on earth...it will be openGL based or some other...we will experience sensations via interfazes over the net...they will not be anything we have experienced....new tastes, new smells....the web will organize, create...it does not have to be as smart as a human....it can create anyway. Or, should I say the ones who make the systems and software for it create...together. Man and machine, virtual world and real world....the future is integration....you are less important than the whole while being more important than you have ever been...JOIN TEH SINGULARITY....for 3 easy payments of 39.99 and if you call before 10PM we will throw in a free cushioned Gel vat with set of pillowed restraints to hold you dead still through your brain Tx/Rx interface sessions....experience the future in climate controlled comfort with less bruising and bumps as well as no lag in gell heting and cooling....feel the thrills of the sauna or gently decend from a high altitude and smash into volcanic pools of molten rock and feel the real pain...all in safety, with simulated heat to gradually ease you in with a more real feeling....the obviously deadly het is only simulated via your mind...no actual harm....sleep well at night knowing you can be eaten by a fire breathing dragon (after raosting) and not recieve burns like ungell assisted lazer and saline systems have had in the past! BUY TODAY! Uh...yeah....basically I have no clue what to do and figure LL will do as they please anyway! BUT, fun to think about the future...even if it is way off base and has no basis.

Have you tried this site?: http://www.3greeneggs.com/autoscript/ Place texture in item and put this script in and maybe it will help. Just chat /1234 change (or whatever word you put in the script that you want) // This script was auto-generated by Ann Enigma's script autogenerator// available at http://www.3greeneggs.com/autoscript/// Note: You will need to copy both this script and a texture into your objectdefault{ state_entry() { llListen(1234,"", NULL_KEY, ""); } listen(integer channel, string name, key id, string message) { if (message == "change") { // set the texture llSetTexture("YOUR-TEXTURE-NAME-HERE",ALL_SIDES); } }}

Yeah, build a place to do something in rather than just a place to buy stuff at. The odd thing about this is...well, I think there was a survey or stat on how LL saw people logging in and staying at the same few places most of thier time! They bought the marketplace....see. Just previous to this I remember people on the XStreet forum saying they had tried multiple locations, Malls and so on and wanted to know if anyone else had any luck with multiple locations. Malls where a joke. The Mall in RL is some place to go so you don't have to stare at walls and screens in the house. If you walk down your street (in some places) in the US you see...well, houses and cars and streets and grass and...boring. In Europe...well, it can be cold! So, a center may be nice, you can sort of see a few things and walk around to a few stores and not be in the rain! Not that people there are strangers to an Umbrella or 10 in thier life! I mean, once again it depends though...I speak of northern europe. Basically, you have a reason to go to a mall, city or 'some place' other than where you can walk in 5 minutes. But, some people DO go down the street to thier friends big porch and chat. Maybe they hang around in the garage. So, you have city streets, Mall/Shopping Center, home and that one or two places you hang out....hey, maybe a Pub or a bowling alley. 3-4...maybe5 places. The rest is neccessity! You HAVE to get food.....this is NOT going to happen in SL much. So, LL says on the wiki to build a place. But, why? Yeah, you spend a few minutes at the grocery looking at the new plants...maybe they have free samples of a new food...so you try that. 5 Minutes of extra shopping, that's it. You don't want to hang there. So, a bowling ally at a clothing store? Seee what I mean? Now, I think there is an issue for some locations. They need to split costs. So they offer space. They say "You hang here, so please support here! Buy from our mall" and that makes sense to people. So, LL says dont' make a store...make a place. I think this was in the Wiki. Not a quote, but yeah....not just a store or mall standing all alone. The issue is....private land....you can do as you please! Anything a place offers your friend with the sim can offer! So, private closed off places are something that may work better for some. So, the marketplace comes into play here. People may like to support a place, but the marketplace is much faster, search is faster....I mean, yeah visiting in world can be nice. But some trust brands, items with no scripts or maybe reviews. Some may even figure...well, it is only .50c...why not! They can always complain and leave a bad review to warn others! Vengeance via greifing? You never know, some may be just looking for an excuse. So, yeah....I see many reasons why the marketplace is popular. I also see how it is hard to make something at a store worth working on. So, I expect the trend of people not making much to do as a continuing one that is based on the fact....well, you just don't have time in SL to stay around a store and you may even only buy things a friend recommends or owns themselves.....so, little motive to hang around a hang out that is majority a store. Now, if it is the reverse....then maybe so. There are lots of people who don't have a place. If you have vendors there at your hangout fun place....yeah, I can see that. The marketplace will always be there for the hurried shopper, or a convenient store occlusion method to hide the party people (skybox store, store with walls or a hill to make the people having fun not so visbale) and...well, yeah...you get the idea. For me? I have never tried anything but rented at a place that was a locaiton to hang out. This was easy, I make cars! So, I rented a place at a track. Didn't make any sales, but rented anyway because I used the track and figured I am simply paying for my time there...sort of. So, I can't say it works IF you place doesn't somehow appeal enough to where they want to help! Almost like they have a stake in keeping the place alive. One issue though....if they hate other cliques that hang there....yeah, they leave. They buy sometimes similar (yeah, on marketplace lol) and set it up at a friends hangout or home......so, yeah....you can't rely on it. I remember most stores where simply stores. That is boring. I wondered why there where not so many themed places, not more games etc. But, seriously....people sometimes just want to hang out at this one place where it is NOT public. So, any store needs to be public...it must be hard. I have seen places with play stuff come and go and it seems hard to do in my industry due to lag. You need a whole sim so you can restart it, low prim the whole thing and control what is rezzed....sad. Catch 22. You need many renters, but you need less peoples stuff to sell because it slows things down. If you sell only a few items and offer free trials...well, why would they buy if they can hang out anyway? Besides, many people have different taste or just want to drive thier own home built stuff. So few drive in SL. I am sometimes wondering how the tracks survive and can see why they generally sell some sort of vehicles themselves and can't rely on mall spaces alone. It is not a huge market. MOst seem to get cars to park or to hang out on or around. Which means my products need to become actual hangout places, almost. Or at least an item that adds to thier hangouts...the private ones, the ones LL is saying people actually are spending most time at! So, ironically I almost can't provide a place...but I can offer to enhance thier place. My stratagy is sort of based on this, if I can get anything done that is. Maybe a closet with interactable items. Like, you can animate putting on shoes and the shoes disapear when they are clicked on and the wearer chooses to put them on. This can be done with UUID swapping for some shoes (one master shoe that is worn and they get multiple choices all in one...sort of a fat pack that comes with a shelf with all the ones to choose from) so they can hang at thier home and role play trying things on? You would help them make a hang out, because they already have one.....LL seems to have indicated this in thier findings! Just a thought, I am a loser with to much time to think about this....so, take it with a grain of salt if you want.

You know, the reviews bug me a little as well. They are important, they do point out some issues....well, maybe. You see, people always say revies pointed out bad issues....but, if you don't buy it...well, how do you know? Think about it! So a method to remove a bad review or some kind of complaint and verify system may work. But, that requires some customer service issues etc. that are hard to LL do handle. In fact, sometimes a company is open to a third party doing this! know it sounds crazy...but maybe LL would be open to a third party handling this IF they have a track record and can do this. Here are a few basic ideas I came up with in the past 1 minute or 2: First step is to set up a grid for testing. This is not so easy, but basically the third party Customer Service company would review and verify, act upon merchants requests to remove etc. They would have power to send a recomendation to LL. LL staff then handles any removals of reviews, sentences or even removing items. They could also maybe help to handle the flagging or whatever else....but reviews and testing things takes time and flaging may be something they want to do internal. Basically they could handle review rleated complaints verification and maybe even make an evaluation system to verify prim counts, perms, and features claimed. There is ONE reason they will not do this though. Violation of copyrighted items and other borderline issues become something they are more aware of! They would end up having to make a decision on some borderline issues. Like, what if the person is saying they do no own copyright and simply are a fan but mean no harm? If htey review all items being sent up to listing....well, they are aware the person does NOT have copyright! If they post it by accident they may get into trouble. Plus, there are a tonne of items already on the marketplace to review! LL may not wish to spend what it takes AND end up getting tonnes of questions on violatioins. Plus, if they pay to do this...well, people could keep making alts and throwing items up for review and clogging the system. Plus, if you offer review should be also maybe running a database of known checksums of files from 3D asset companies? I mean, you COULD run a quick check and see if the file is a verbatim copy (not a model that is similar, this would be the exact same file copied verbatim via a copy and paste or copy download/rip!) so....yeah, they end up being able to do something that then means if they screw up they might become liable? Not sure, they obviously would want to avoid legal issues etc. Not only that, but really you have to consider the costs I guess. Less items approved also makes the marketplace less busy and less people happy. So, it is as good as it gets? Sort of. But, some kind of CSM (cusotmer service management) may work. I would like to point out that in world stores and the marketplace has customer service based tools, as well as some offline tools or a basic spreadsheet method available. I noticed very little feedback, somestimes the person had never even rezz'd the item when I asked if they recieved it. So, there is questionably any need...well...for some items.

If/when we see rigged animals and items animated you will see the power of mesh. To say it is overated is not entirely fair because anyone could have made the same mess with scupts and some things where not capable with sculpts that are capable with mesh. Now, with normal maps comping out....if they could have allowed some normal map/sculpt combo to help detail out the sculpts and handle the wobbles....but, I mean....sculpties sort of where normal maps! So, mesh was where low polygon (higher performance), riggability (even staqnd alone with a set of animal or mechanical rigs...uh, like a hinge and a 4 legged animal that is resizable and you add that rig to your mesh to make a barn door or a horse) so....well, yeah....you get the idea already. It does more, but you are right in that they fail. I think contacting the owner may help. Sending a few images will help them as well. They may not have tried the same dances or didn't notice the alpha layers etc. They will learn from feedback, hopefully. Speaking of which, I need to go back to improving my stuff. I have yet to adapt it for a long time...or maybe not, it still works...soo...yeah, who cares. Sadly, this may be the same feeling of the person who makes you stuff! Not that they don't want you to have fun, but ther are so many glitches, lag and sort of general feeing of "wow, it is amazing I can do anything right now...it was so bad before!" that things seem to reallytake a back seat (more like stuck in a corner of the trunk with old gym bag from when quiting workout....even though working out is starting again and the bag is like forgotten about anyway) and...yeah, SL is nto first...sad for some. I dont' get to go anywhere sometimes, so it is nice to explore and play with stuff in SL....if I can move even....I really should get a new pc.

Morgaine Christensen wrote: The question is, is the deformer even going to happen? And, if it is, when will it be available? Now I sound like some kind of preacher for Avastar from Domino marama and Giaa(spelling? I always get this wrong) and I don't even use it or own it lol. BUT, yeah, Avastar allows you to import your avatar shape, it also has sliders that are the same settings as SL's and it set in blender. I think it is like 10-20 USD$, but if you look up Giaa or Domino Marama's site on teh web you will find links to it and the in world slurl to Giaa's place etc. There are tutorials video's on michinamatrix and so on. I dont' have the time to find links, sorry. I can't explain more than you basically can export a xml of you av, import it and you get a mesh model in BLender that is the correct dimensions. Then, you would make whatever you want and size it up against that mesh avatar shape. Export and all that, texturing and all that stuff to. Import into SL, and attache. Should work with far less guess work!

Yeah, no onehas ever got into really making a set of clothes with all sizes I guess, and it is a pitty. Heck, I bet there are no tailors out there either, or at least people making custom fits in a batch. It would cost a bit I guess. With the ability to export an avatars shape and Avastar for blender, from Domino Marama. The cost could add up. But, then again a outfit may cost anywhere from 50L to 2000L for each item. On average maybe 100-200 might be more realistic. That means...a shirt may take half an hour to fit and then 10-20 minutes to import, try it out and discuss what is wanted and so on. Maybe even an hour total, or more! US minumum wages (indepent freelancers can charge as they want) are 7USD$...that is more than the 1-2USD$ an outfit costs in SL. 7USD$ is almost 2000L. Per item. Now, if they are interested in making a line of them and they can offer them to others...well, there is not a big market. But that still might end up not reducing the price much. Sad I guess. How much would you be willing to pay, and how many outfits. I know it sounds silly, but" money talks" is a phrase that works for some people lol. I can't do this myself, but it may help you get someones interest! Not only that, but I think there was a small breast group in world. They might serve as a guide of how many are out there, for anyone thinking of venturing to make some clothes or adjust thier own? not sure, but I am sure there are some.....just not sure if people can change the size so quickly.

Lexi Zelin wrote: And why exactly would we want to post SL **bleep** on amazon?? This is the first ive heard of this and I have to say it sounds pretty stupid people don't search for SL stuff on amazon hahha Yeah, but LL has a pack of stuff they give away for free (plus they give the person linden dollars) and it uses some odd thing where Amazon will get a verifying message or whatever...you log into Amazon and also must be logged into Second Life!!! I wondered if this was a sort of test LL was doing....maybe they will let SLer's do this? I think the primary reason they are doing this is to promo SL a bit, sell some linden dollars via Amazon (some people already have accounts there and don't wish to get paypal or put thier bank info on LL's servers when they barely know LL? Or just the hastle of it all) and they have a gift card or some kind of cash there from selling things. Amazon also does Amazon Payments service. This is like a paypal alternative. Some may use it instead or in addition to....if you do get a gift card, do work, sell or somehow do business with Amazon you may end up with a Amazon Payments account. Sort of one of those things where LL is trying out getting attention. They also listed on Steam. I suppose it will come up in searches for some things, mostly people looking for game stuff...so, advertising at the very least for new customers. Seems cheap to, since it pays them because some of the people buy stuff in addition to just opening an account! But, yeah....why our stuff? I don't know, just wondering. Since some may not trust LL or want to enter info yet again. Plus gift cards. Tonnes of people use Amazon, so they have accounts. I can imagine there are thousands of Slers who may have gotten gift cards....what better way to unload them I guess.

To add something on topic...well, I think that there are many problems with SL. I know that there is one thing to consider as well that many don't. SL is part of an internet where people frequently change where they choose to communicate. If it where not so, well....no facebook and only AOL chat rooms. IF Aol could have moved thier chat rooms online or even kept everyone around using thier AIM software....well, they would be still alive and kicking as the hugest internet social area...SL would be a place you accessed via clicking a button on teh AOL Games button!!! Seriously, the WHOLE internet was AOL and then this one place with weird stuff called the WWW for many people! A click on some links would lead to awarning that you where leaving the AOL part of the internet and it was a wild jungle out there!! The www peresisted, matured and still even kept it's dancing hamsters, crazy GIF's (yes, GIF's are NOT new and where around way way before humour sites that are now popular had them) and so on. The web just grows, stays relitevly the same apart from one thing....sites die!! SL may be interesting to someone for a few years, and then they leave...heck, make that a few months. They have been there, done that and had the screen shots to prove it...but thier HDD failed or they deleted them to make room for a sequal to thier favorite game or a ripped movie or whatever it is they like to do. Updates have eaten up over a GB on my linux box, I swear....but I didn't keep track..but I have more screen shots and so on and am not leaving lol. I am odd I guess. I noticed this with forums, chatroom sites and ALL sites on the net. For some odd reason I end up at archive.org at the "wayback machine" and see some old site that used to be, almost as if to check weather it was real or not. You know. Once upon a time there was NO youtube! No SL. People spent thier time elsewhere, and now can't spend as much time there because they hang out at one of the new places. This happens with SL. Facebook arrived. Mobile Apps arrived. New games went online. God knows I might have ended up all my free time in car games rather than here! Seriously, they scan the tracks and heck...I can even get a seat all rigged up with hydrolic picstons to move and tilt it and put it in a closet to block out the world and have the speakers reverberate off the walls and wrap around matching monitors mounted in front of my ugly mug!!! I don't have the cash....so, I spend a bit of time around SL this season of time wasting arriving. No cash, so SL will do for now. BUT, if I had more cash....gosh, I would be installing some games now and maybe getting a subscription or a free trial signed up! I am "SL-ing" at the moment....webstyle because I can't put up with trying in world right now. People have other distractions. At one time I was dropping plastic army men from the stairs with a plastic parachute on them.....times change, amusments change. Now, I want to put a camera on a kite or a balloon.....sort of a more grown up version of the same fascination...fun to watch stuff move around, fall or float or sink or bounce or whatever. Nothing wrong with that....exept stuff breaking now and then. If I am out doing that.....no SL-ing. I can't be in two places at once! So, regardless of the issues adressed...I think human nature is known. I think LL knows it. Their is also a theory that a product, a new offering...well, may not reach mass appeal and basically declines as the novelty wears off, the early adopters adopt the next thing and they are stuck trying to stay relevent to the people who are ready to jump ship with the early adopters. SL being dead is not really true, it never made it. IT was a huge "Hey lets gamble here as well" mixed with a "Hey a new place I think I can make a million dollars" with a huge "OMG I will be a real cyberpunk that crashes all snow like or whatever the book is about and all that cyber stuff" and well....yeah, there are people who remembered seeing neato pictures of Bryce renders...they are sometimes dorks who will stick around even though they already expect no cyber anarchy uprising to lead to virtual space being a new world recognized by the UN....there isn't a million dollars here to be made by them and....well....yeah, I am not into gambling lol. So...hey, enjoy the sparkly water is sometimes all you can get out of life OR Second Life(ing /me shrugs.

Jenni Darkwatch wrote: I'm no a lawyer of course, but isn't there a cutoff where basically a court can decline "trivial" cases, i.e. when theres miniscule financial damages? There have been court cases over IP issues BEFORE DMCA existed even! It depends how much you lose, so I have heard. An animation script system and animations, the famous breedables court cases and even one in which a guy stole servers full of stuff and sold it. They where in the news. So it HAS happened. In fact, the guy who went after LL was the guy with the animation script stuff....I think. Tazer went after LL because it looked like slander and LL didn't take it down enough! There HAVE been court cases. Obviously, if you lose $100 or so...well, it might mean something to some people but the cops, the courts and so on may just send you to a small claims court. But, there have been some cases. Some here DO earn a bit more than what we may think. Plus, there may even be a possability of a class action suite against a offender who hits lots of people? Not sure, I am very much NOT a lawyer! But, one on here mentioned the trifle to the courts thing. They didn't mention small claims, just in general. I am not sure if DMCA is only for non-small claims issues or what. DMCA was to protect LL and other hosts from law suites. I think the animation guy was an example. PLus the tazer case? But, the breedables thing...yeah, that was like a patent case or copywrite over floating text + more issues case...I can't remember. It does happen, and I have saw a case in which a guy got hit for his batmanish models. They where buildable by the end user, where including batman type stuff and where meant to be of the actors. But, because batman branded looking items where in teh scene or on the figure...he got attacked, court says he has to pay thousands (3 times more or whatever than the few thousand he made) and it is all iinsane and sad for him because he had a) tried to work around it legit (in his eyes) b) Actually contacted the actors (they say it is OK) and also contacted the batman people to work out something and was like mailing checks to someone...I think it was Adam West. But, like I said....I am NOT a lawyer, don't remember much about the batman vs. some dude making models thing and all of this is most likely findable online for anyones viewing! Sad he was sending checks and still got into trouble, it shows he was trying to be legit....nope, he got hit with a large sum compared to what he was making and still was not allowed to carry on business to help him pay the bill....but I could be wrong.

I thought it was a clever deal in which they downloaded a viewer with a special inventory call that LL has made. But, no...it is an account link!? So. ALL of the marketplace stuff could be placed on Amazon sooner or later? I mean, I no people are into outsourcing...but is that the real end to the marketplace stratagy? Sorry marketplace.secondlife.com, your fired and now Amazon handles it all. That would mean residents could review items and get commission? THAT might be an interesting way to boost online sales! I wonder if they will maybe even try a affiliate program with the existing marketplace site? So many questions that will most likely end with a "no" being the answer. Still, it may make for interesting discussion IF it where even possible. Does Amazon's linking thingy software/service/method work for merchants? I mean, can I make a bot that sends items (Hey, that bot software can actually run on an Amazon service they offer lol) and basically the bot softwares capabilities "talk" to amazons link thingy? I guess I should contact Amazon. But, I thought someone may have already thought of this because...well, I just noticed the wierd linked account logo thingy and didn't know much about this. I have looked into some Amazon services stuff, read a bit about how smaller companies can list stuff there...but forgot or missed this account linking. Anyone checked out this and knows if Amazon's account link thingy for selling items in-game can work with a SL bot client? Thanks for any response. And, if so....I bet you might make a bit of money. I can't do it, but I am curious...software curious? That sounds so...software gay, huh? A, one can't speak without ones words being misconstrued....ugh, now I sound like a queen....yikes, it gets worse. I will simply stop typing now!

Czari Zenovka wrote: Kenbro Utu wrote: Couldbe Yue wrote: The good news is that appears to be all you need to update and it should be cheap - assuming you can find a cpu to upgrade with. The bad news is that not all processor slots are the same, and a cpu upgrade to a new series will almost always mean an upgraded motherboard, probably upgraded/different memory slots, and possibly even a power supply upgrade. Exactly. This is the reason I cannot just upgrade my PC. A year ago, or maybe even longer, I went to a store that custom builds PCs to price a new graphics card and brought a printout of my current PC specs with me. I was told that my MB does not support the new graphics cards. Ok, so how much will it be to replace the MB and graphics card? Well, if you do that, then your current RAM will no longer be compatible with a new MB. The bottom line of the conversation was - you basically need an entirely new computer. Sassy had suggested I try the Cool Viewer last Spring because it is easier on older PCs, but older PCs and older PCs that do not have SEE2 capability are two different things. yeah, if you run a pentium III you will have like...uh, most likely SDRAm and surely no faster than DDR. A pentium 4 with DDR2 might be better. A Pentium4 3.4whateverGHZ it was was quick, and I think had DDR2 on many motherboards. Of course, if you upgrade your mother board....well, possibly case and obviously RAM and even GPU card. Well, if it has an AGP slot (likely) and all that. BUT, lets say you find an off lease 140$+ pentium 4 or a core duo...uh, athalon64x2 maybe as well....or maybe even a x3 with three cores...well, by the time you swap your HDD in (oops. Now windows doesn't want to work! You need windows....yup, over 100$ or so..maybe lower if you build a new system and buy oem or whatever) so....Yeah, you can try linux. Then you have to learn a new OS a bit(most of the linux and BSD varients are similar enough IF you get one set up like that. Ubuntu is one I think works most of the time with SL and I think even Steam is going to be supported for Ubuntu) so...uh, yeah....well....yeah, you end up spendiing enough to get a new PC. Ubuntu is free (they do have a business model though, more on that later) seems to support 3D games enough to attract Steam and a few others to make games working with Ubuntu! It is free, but support is forum based and you need a account ($$ per month or year) for extra help, a bit of backup space and some other perks come with that as well though. At least, it used to. Ubuntu is not hard to learn, works very simlar to windows and other devices these days. Most things that are standard on the web work in Ubuntu on firefox. There is free office software, basic stuff is mostly covered and all for free (well, you are expected to donate some time, money or effort by some..but not required) and...uh, well it cuts off over 100$ of the price of building a system. Used PC' or offlease may help. A pentium4 with DDR2 ram will be nice. You may also find some whatever core duo based systems for less than 180$ with OS (maybe even win7) out there. But, that is a lot. Add $50 for a GPU card....I mean, IF it has PCIe or something other than AGP. AGP is old and dead, but there are some cards still floating around. Not much good, but are not as bad as built-in chips on many P4 CPU based systems! I think most P4's are DDR ram, but I have seen a few that are off lease, DDR2 and have OS's for under $180. Barebones are a little less and then the same after purchase of a HDD. Either way, you end up with a slow duel core at best. Not as bad as a pIII though, so you should be happy with the speed I bet!

Tamara Artis wrote: IMHo the person is more right then you can think of; having an inworld store means you pay rent, buy at least one building for it, vendors, some furniture etc. which means you are spending money inworld and supporting others and sl economy. The fact that you or some other merchant doesn't have an inworld store doesn't mean you are a cheater though, therefore you shouldn't focus on that only. But having a blank profile and being a week old is something that should worry us, when checking profiles of merchants. There are too many copybotters these days and the merchant you are talking about only wanted to warn people about it. Different people different things they want to do in SL. Some love shopping at stores in world. Some say that sims are lagged enough...who needs more vendors and stores anyway, SL should be for playing and NOT shops and merchants. Some argue one are both in the same. They do BOTH, different sims for different usage. No big deal. I figure it is less important. I don't run in world stores any more due to RL issues and will (hopefully) get back to building one. I like designing the building, like thinking about the future of the store. Maybe a place to play, not just a store. I have a few ideas and plans. But, seriously......some really would not like the noise and lag from phsical items being used on the same sim! Sadly, my store and hangout is a pain to them! So, they would like me to NOT do this. I mean, even if sims are now given more resources based on usage the fingers may still get pointed at me. So, it is relitive! Some figure kill all physics and put all that hardware on assets or other sim resource needs! So, sometimes you add MORE to SL's experience for some people by staying out! lol. Wierd. I hope all have fun, just log -in and try to luagh at it. I will try to, and I know it is hard at times....one day we will have hour headsets, out sound, smell, touch and taste chambers interfaces and all will be virtual in our lives...if we so please. We will waste away with a grin on our face not knowing how many grey hairs we have accumlated. Food delivered to a machine that cooks, shoots it down a tube and into our chambers...yes, then we will be free of lag!!!

I got a car that was disputed from a maker who had been around a while. He was around for a while, made cars and then seemingly (so I have heard) ended up in a group. The group rejects a build uploaded, he takes it and they kick him out because they didn't want him having it...I mean, this is hearsay...this is not a court either! But, yeah....it was disputed. See, it doesn't matter. But, at the same time....he may or may not have been 100% in the wrong! It all depends on the details, so I don't know. I don't wish to know and don't ask. I dropped the item and moved on for more than the drama, so life goes one. The item is gone and is also still there. They did or didn't prove thier point, they did or didn't do anything wrong. The points and so on are not known to me, I don't wish to! This is where sometimes those messages backfire. I know this sounds crazy....but maybe there are less drama lammas out there than forum vetarens indicate! Sometimes you are used to flame wars and arguments so much....well, you are not phased by the statement you found? Maybe the majority turn away and remember the company saying this as a dramaqueen and see the logo one day in the future and just can't put a finger on it...but somehow it reminds them of ripper bots and drama! It might backfire lol.

I remember offering test drives. I didnt' hand out scripted demo's. I said, hey....you choose a track and I will rez a car you or anyone can drive and you can drive it and I will even TP out! Seriously, you get hardly anyone take you up on the offer lol....well, I didn't get many. Same for custom options. But, you offer full perms or mods, offer demo's...I bet you get hundreds of takers and no buyers...exact opposite statistic!!! Seriously wierd stuff. A demo might not even satisfy some. But, being able to inspect stuff, find the creators has and does exist for while might help some. I honestly dont' know, but I have a feeling the statement sort of doesn't matter. I beleive that many users flock to popular stuff while some seek out gems, something maybe a bit different or some sort of iinteresting stores. The ones who are doing the reading, maybe they think about that BUT it may only be reassuring them of a few things they may have noticed or thought of. The majority? Buy from the ones mentioned on 2-3 blogs and seen all over!! No need for thoughts, no care of theft or whatever (some popular brands may use pirated software...I would never know. It can be easier or quicker to use some high priced stuff...hence the price! But, yeah.....seriously, I doubt anyone even reads it or remembers lol. Even if they do, the ones who are digging deep will basically buy whatever and will keep this in mind. Some might buy from people they know and have knowledge of some kind of thier skills. This is why some tutorialize a build or texture work, they make record of it. If recording it and being a sort of expert makes beleivers....you have said more about yourself, your actions speak louder and basically you might make more impact. Having said that, the ones that get me are the ones paying for reviews. I mean, not that I think it is totaly wrong....but it is a bit odd and makes me wonder why so many may not write a review and see it as a discount sort of thing....it is all so odd! Surely more must NOT write a review than do? I mean, from the notion that I get you simply can't pay people to review an item these days lol. BUT, after having said that (it is a joke...sort of) I do have to admit...they might never have read it! TL;DR culture! it is a cool phrase, sums up so much about peples activities these days. So, yeah....it is cool to NOT read, NOT write and simply move to another task. I think multitasking is like addictive, moving to a new task starts a certian reaction of pathways in the brain that is identifyable and so on. It is like crack for one part of the brain mayube? I can't remember the stuff I read. But, yeah...a part of your brain gets onto the next task and that feeling...that is the one people like. If only reviews where asked for at the perfect time to distract them from a present task thier brain was getting bored with!! THEN, they would give the present task a shove out of the way and write a review. Not that I want them or anything, just noticing that not all who pay are getting many reviews compared to before the SL take over....werid.

Not to much of a 'necro-post' to be posted in, heh? Well, here it goes. I am not sure why politics come into it entirely, SL is a privatly owned company. They essentially DO manipulate the market via controlling: 1) The price of Linden Dollars 2) The price of membership 3) Advertising and marketing efforts to expand the population and retain residents 4) The terms of service and premium residents offerings (not as exploited as one might think) 5) TOS that allows user creations uploaded and IF those are allowed to be sold at all. So, there is no govern, no govern, free market at all. In essense it is a loosly controlled system that is made to benifit whomever and whatever the mission (or ulterior missions the manipulators are pushing for or exploiting out of it) to a point where to ignore governance is to ignore freedom and it is to claim a system is essentially non-existing in it's natural state. To ignore nature and the full environment is a grace mistake when armchair econoimic professing. To ask questions is fine, so I aplaud the question mark of the OP. I am not sure what I am saying. But basically, you sometimes are trying to see the forest and the trees are in the way....plus the trees are alive and walking to different spots and you keep turning around.....you can hear them....alas, nothing....but you know they moved! THAT is economics.....expept you keep walking up in a differentn forest with a slightly different gravity, weather system and chemical makeup in the atmosphere...then you realize it is constantly changing....ooops, it isn't...it just changes with no warning in a way that really does seem you are dimension travelling while sleeping. It is NOT sensical, it IS controlled, it CANNOT be unmanipulated...thus, there are always governances of some sort and they are not identifiable at all times....by the time you have recorded them in your limited memory...they might have changed! The weather, the culture and many other odd things effect us all. Why did people invest in SL thinking it was, and I think this is an exact qoute "the next internet" when basically....the bandwidth restrictions where placed on, SL would have to fundamentally change and would be made obsolete by web browsers (yes, even the mighty Flash plug-in is beingn slowely chipped away at by several different efforts, plug-ins and frameworks as it fights for dominion on all fronts!) and basicallay.....HTML5 is even starting to do some common things that where done with flash. IT may take a few years, but basically...IF pepole went and invested money into iMacs instead of IPhones, and Android/Google computers where at full advanced 3D with v2.0 and basically the GoogleBook was a HUGE 8 core CPU monster that you can use as a heater on chilly spring mornings.....yeah, THEN things would have been more in SL's advantage. IPhone, Mobiles. This was a huge investment of money. Even if only 50$ or so...in reality, people bought iPads for hundreds instead of PC upgrades or money toward a new mac! How on earth can we see it expand with ISP's still holding caps on some of the highspeed net access? 4G BUT you get like an hour of use or something rediculous. Unless you spend MORE money. So, no money for SL or a new PC to enjoy SL or even try it. People still don't have the GPU's BUT spent 30$ MORE on ISP bandwidth or phone bills! Spent 300$ on a iPad to walk around and look rich or cool and use extremely simple applications....which are now called Apps....because....why not, they are not "real" programs? lol. Anyway, TONNES of money gone....all for nothing much more than games that resemble what you could get on a USED out of date playboy, game simlilarly priced to old used games. The difference is they pay 30$+ for phone data BS or ISP increases to play video's and download "Apps" so....yeah, I would not be surprised if gameboys and other handhelds become hipster hillarity. But, yeah....basically, phones took hundreds from a segment of the market that might have otherwise upgraded thier PC and tried out some social gaming with more visual appeal....SL! No on really saw this at LL, or at least didn't have enough influence? The average user is split between so many games, so many "communities" and so many websites, applications, and communications. So, once again...LL controls some things and could try to regulate SL...but when you can get a game that have many many planes for like 2.99 initial or even free and they buy the plane or upgrades (I don't know if this is available for planes, but does exist for cars!) I mean....the little phone is all over an dthe impulse can be indulged in. SL is NOT there, the impulse is put aside! One car or another? You pick the one that is more fun, more in your latest amusement...the phone game!!! SO, it is not really SL's other creators that effect everything....it is also many many other things. Casual gamers play phones and don't have as much time. It is one of those things. If you make newer or more interesting things....maybe this will be enough to sell to those looking for new things. But, when you can buy a game for 20$ that has more tracks, more cars....don't you end up thiking like I do and think.....THAT is where some drivers are, most of them. Millions versus hundreds here! They become ornaments, so looks are where it is at. Maybe more esoteric items? I can't say that regulation of the market will really make things better, because really and truly there are always influences and LL already has a few and there are more in the real world....I mean, you can argue there IS no real and second world, we only have so much time for all activities and SL competes with more activities than JUST one called RL. SL is part of RL activities, all of those RL activities compete for time. In fact, I have better things to do. I really could have explained this better, done some research and so on. I could have maybe cited some neato things to investigate. I could comment further on technology changes, vendor lock-in (vice system needs maintenance and was not open...sort of like vendor lock-in I guess) and so many smart peoples thoughts would be cited here. You could spend hours reading my thousands of words. I could take 2 days or so to respond with a paper....maybe even call it a white paper and post it on a website and be all pro like and comment on SL, business and all that. But seriously....I don't get anything for this. Which answers why Vice exists and doesn't seem like it will. We all do things in our lives. We may decide to take up golf. THis may last forever, but you may also sell a set of clubs. Those clubs are not sad. But, maybe you don't play darts anymore and it is all golf. Then, one day....you decide to skip golf every weekend and play darts again! This is life. SL is ONE task, one distraction, one time burner and there are many. Including important ones. So, yeah....I will waste a bit of time typing furiously with no worry of editing. I will ramble, lose my train of thought and maybe even go off on tangents......sure, why not. Some do much better, they have healthy minds (OK, some don't but have other afflictions) and...uh..yeah, they are going stuff people rely on. But, yeah....they have issues to deal with, the world is larger than any one of use. If a giant snowball wants your sandwich......hell, you better get out of the way and try to grab it...because one day you might regret not having the balony sandwich available to you because of rations and you will watch small chinese men fight to the death over a piece of pork...seriously....it is a dangerous world for some people, and sci-fi is full of odd stories and we face an odd future!!!!! Lower SL prices will maybe lead to some people dropping out. But with merchant outboxes.....lol, no worries of autoreturn or server storage places shutting down. People can disapear for years and set the stuff at low prices and LL makes money over and over, they lose less content and as the items call into old age not pretty, shiney, spec mapped or more laggy status....well, people will buy them AND the new items! This is odd, but works. They become collectables, starter stuff or mistakes and sources of anger!!! Yup. LL makes money either way! No loss, the boxes meant death when a user drifts away. Not so now! As long as they put it in merchant outbox it will stay lol. Anyway, off to do something more productive. I have said my -4057927c, because this all may confound and point out obvious things....but oh well.

I think it is more than content optimization, though I agree that is an issue. I really think the way SL works, it's constant checking and the way people move and use SL all contribute. But, yes some stuff is not optimzed well enough, and in some ways there was no way or simply no education on it. I built cars and you just experimented or heard stuff while hanging out! No classes on this, well...at the time. Now the forums are open, there is a full wiki. It is better now, but still...yeah, badly done (or not done at all) stuff is around. LL didn't implement more checks and it is hard to.They are relying on common sense, sim owners should learn this if they are investing over 100$ a month for a sim...right? So, the market decides and those who are sick of laggy items Identify them and tell the others to not use them. ARC was part of this natural common sense method of governance via anarchy with only an upper limit per item uploaded. Well, ARC ws hated. I used to attache cars to myself with a totally blank lowest ARC value avatar shape....it was sort of nifty. People freaked out about ARC, they figure bleeding n00bs into non users was fine. I remember saying we need better detection of hardware. But, they know that and figure...well, common sense is you will switch stuff off and people help each other. Then chat was breaking down and group chat plummeted lol. Yeah, where are you going to ask? Many are just not into forums, reading huge pages and then waiting for their SL viewer to stop crashing for 20 minutes...weird, huh! lol. Needless to say, the quasi anarchy method backfired, people want total non interaction, zero community and only want a space to hang with freinds....no feedback, resistance or distruption from a public. You could argue they dont want a SL like RL and the only core of the SL product is that is is some kind of escape from rules, a cirtual fantasy area and simply NOT a world....it is a virtual escape to many? Not sure exacly. Interesting stuff to think about.

If you need money to buy gear and have no money, there is always crowdsourcing work that you can earn with. Amazons offerings even include an account that you can use at a few places or at least thier own site. I don't know if it is only Amazons site, but I think you can get gift cards for amazon and don't have to have a bank account attached....I think. Not sure these days. I used it a while back for some books and other stuff you can find at amazon (food, though it is in bulk is the only bargains I saw lol) and...uh, yea....it works, but wow the hours you need to put in to get stuff! The pay is usually working out to be less than 2$ an hour. If it was at 3$ I wouldn't be here now wasting my time wishing I was dead. So...yeah, I know it is hard to get hardware sometimes. SL money helped with two GPU cards so far. Waiting for sales means I got each for less than $50, AGP cards are very hard to find these days though. If you don't like banking info being online, then a few places will actually accept checks or certificates of deposit via mail even! In the old days you could even get SLExchange to send a cheeck to you, no bank needed for SL! These days it is different I guess, so friends, nerve, annoyance or whatever works for you will make it easy for you to roll your eyes at the craziness and just deal with it....even if you work a week clicking BS and falling asleep with sheer boredom. Shame we can't buy GPU cards with LInden Dollars. Ah, typing practice done....this is way way to much text and to much information. Back to death now, back to the ponderings and back to cookies....ah....none left....a pound of sugar and junk....dinner done I guess. Interesting. Hhm. Well. Alright...uh....hhm. Bye!

Learning the graphics tab settings and maybe even your GPU makers settings program may help a lot. Sometimes it is one checkbox away from working! YOu turn something off and it all works OK enough! Seriously sad though, it seemed to get better and now it is worse than before. The last few updates are bad, I went from being able to use shadows to it now crashing. This is a cycle that repeats over and over.....maybe it is a SL/ATI issue. I should try rolling back drivers and so on, but that is a big hastle and the recent issue was the viewer....and they blocked the viewers requiring an upgrade! I mean, not blocked like the banned viewers....3.2.x LL series viewers are now not allowed, I HAD to get the newer one. Sadly, it doesn't work well with graphics and I can't disable textures.....could be just me though, or should I say people 'attacking' me, vigilently harrassing me. *shrugs* love will find way, and love is a pathetic excuse to live....I breath, therefore I fix things and carry on...sort of...OK< this stinks and I might as well quit soon. Hhmnpf /me feels like barfing but eats more despite wondering if I have diabetes and will go into a coma tonight. HI! Nice day today!!!! HI!!!

Amethyst Jetaime wrote: LL doesn't have any financial incentive to push on the deformer. Its no skin off their back if we can't wear mesh and have to wear system clothes. They still will collect MP commissions on clothing sold and tiers on merchants land. You have apoint, and consider that LL may have already seen good reasons to allow the market to solve this with a few solutions. One example is just making many sizes, aided by a script or plug-in made for software programs. I will sort of get into that now. Then, I will also mention other solutions, mainly manual. A software solution would basically include measuring the diameter and also using some other width and so on from the avatars slider settings for shapes. Domino Marama was already working on a avatar mesh project for blender, which is now available I believe via jass or primstar. I have lost track of it though, I am not a cothes maker and don't make much these days. But, either way there was data on avatars, already a prominent creator of very well used and loved sculpt scripts for blender. Really, LL has oodles of programming stuff going on. Surely they would see this potential, the avatar work was already under way with Domino and maybe others would follow. There are several software solutions for sculpts and avatar clothes making created by SL creators! So, yeah...maybe some sizes would be able to be made that cover many avatars or a complex system that adjusted bust, torso length and hip dimensions etc. so you could make like 100 sizes or whatever is needed to account for many possible shapes. You can resize to cover many variations. How would you get thier size! Ha, you cought out the bit WHY and now have debunked my theory that this could be done? Maybe not. You would simply get a pic taken from a few angles by a bot (a good one) and the bot sends these to some software that uses the silloute picture or maybe just a pink/blue/green or whatever plain background to figure out the dimensions! This is a system that is retarded a bit, getting avatar data is better, though shape makers might not like this so I thought up this solution that does not expose slider data. This one just gives your blender or whatever software the dimensions needed to make a basice set of riings that you adjust your clothing to OR helps to ID an existing size that will fit. This is some tedious work, finding out what works one what avatar. But, you would get the size AND a number to type into the resizer script to get it to fit you! also, it could produce more accurate alpha maps. But, this work is tedious and I am not good enough a coder...but many are and it is all math....not easy math, tedious and lots of manual checking to make sure it is all working correctly and may require the creator of clothes to run a script on every single piece and it may take a long long time. But, alas...I am not a software engineer...so, needless to say this is not maybe the optimal solution and it may actually be easier than this. A simpler solution, that requires mainly team work and some extra (though distributed) labor on the parts of the collaborators will now follow. Maybe LL waited to see if a tailored mesh market arrived. People loved camping (the ones who used it) and some even have models or store keepers/greeters/customer service at thier stores) and maybe a tailor who could take orders may have become a main fixture at better stores? The person would ask what shape they have, or ask for a copy. They would look up if the shape maker is on thier list, or take the shape and export avatar data for it. HOpefully, just what is needed. This then is used to generate a avatar shape that is similar enough in the modellers software off line! Simple enough, but maybe requires shape makers to post a few dimensions for things to do with torso's, arm length and so on. The software solution I mentioned is less work on the part of the clotheir, the end purchaser of the clothes but is horribly tedious for a programmer to initially do. But, this is what software was sort of designed for. But, people who own stores get traffic increase as well as a chance to impress or offer a role play experience for customers!! And, tailored stuff has a bit more of a price tag as well as exclusivity to it all. It may have been only for a few well off avatars, with a slow adoption benifiting LL and hey...the older creators or people who are not 3D software savvy could still make a buck or two and keep playing! Two birds, or more, with one stone. As more adopted better hardware, maybe made a bit more from thier ventures and maybe a few birthday presents later...well, many would have a good mesh item that was tailored as well as a few they can stretch and fit. No, the solution seems to have been one that leaves a gal really and truly having a bigger butt when she wares that one pair of jeans...it is NOT an illusion any more, not a figment of thier imagination...no need to even ask anyone! "it's just mesh...oh well" So, they wait for the deformer. This solution is a varient of the solution I mentioned, in that I mean it requires programmers to do much work with math and tedious testing to get it all done. Different, yes, but similar in it's need for lots of testing and figuring out. There is one twist....LL needs to be involved. The solution that uses cleint size export and maybe even an image based solution is all user makable, even the deformer sort of is...but, people want it in the main LL viewer. So, they are stuck with this. It is a smarter move than the one I mentioned, but I don't get why store owners hate taking custom orders and tailoring. I mean, they can even use a bot to take the orders. The issue must be that the deformer makes more sense to them, was faster to market than any other and basically....who the heck wants to make a system with that much code for SL when there is almost zero money? Qarl even had an amount to pay him for him to start! Seriously, this is a bit of work and there are more interesting things to work on, things that pay as well....lest we forget our addiction to not dying and not eating ramen and living in a card board box lol. SO, yeah....why take custom orders when a deformer works? But, alas....traffic, roleplay and so on may have filled in and kept the old fashioned painted cloth makers in business as usual loonger. 3D is a bit odd to do, not impossible. But I think it is a bit slower for some to learn, so the 2D painting on layers works for enough creators to here maybe L figured mesh was only to be tailored for the elite or really devoted fashion fans? Either way, I am rambling; not to mention redundently so! I think I already covered traffic as an incentive, a proven one at that! Other solutions may be around in some peoples heads to. Possibly even that mesh was not really meant for clothes as much for other things, clothing already being covered more. Plus, many avatars are different dimensions but are actually very close in basic dimensions to the point many say they all look to alike!!! Maybe this was a solution they expected, that cotheirs would backe a standard set of several shapes they provide for that cover the main body styles? Ah, here I go again....no lists of body size and styles, just a quick bye and I will be now on my way!

Priority of the animation works in combination with zero joint rotations being ignored, so you need to make sure that all of the joints rotations (x,y,z numbers) are NOT zero. Just make them like.01 or something that works and is not to jittery. Any zero on the joint and the priority system, made to allow you to blend in one animation...say a limb movement, with another animation...say a crouching animation or a walk...I mean, this way your gun animation would only be one arm that points out at shoulder height...just an example. You would then only trigger the arm movement when the gun was ready to be fired or aimed, and you don't have to make a walk animation and crouch to go with that pointing all combined and then started, you just start one after the other and they both work together, no need to make a larger crouch with arm extended to take over from the crouch with arm down....if that makes sense. SL thinks you are wanting the arm to NOT be animated if there are zeros on that rotation! Simply make all zero numbers on teh x, y and z of each joints rotation non zero. Say, 0.01 or so, on the joints you want to control with your animation. If that doesn't take care of it (try it on a static pose before investing the time to a whole animation!) then you may want to look into SL's priority settings, and also maybe the percent in out and time till the animation takes over. Faster time settings (lower number) should make the animation snap instantly to what you made, just adjust these to make it look right...IF that seems to be the issue. If not adn you still have troubles...wow, I am lost! Uh, not sure. Do you have a standard avatar or a unique one that needs a Animation Overider....uh, like a dog or a dragon that has flapping wings and all that stuff? Then you may need to learn that avatars AO's rotations by putting a normal skin on and removing the mesh or prim/sculpt attachments! Besides that, wow...I can't think of what else to try! Hhappy animating!