EliseAnne85

I did have a difficult time because I wrote in my post I do not play any kind of "games" but asked if someone could please tell me a game so I could at least see it. I got no response but we are off topic. However, I do have an IM and someone could have sent me something. I searched PBR content and got pretty much nothing. This morning I searched PBR gaming content and saw items I did not care for. Those clothes in the video you shared look very good but part of the scene went very dark for quite some time. But, I saw enough, the clothes and the furniture do look good. Thanks for sharing. Not sure many of us aren't going to need an upgrade to a gaming pc to run it, however. And, therein lies the problem. With EEP the lighting goes too dark a lot of the time and I don't care for that. But, one thing this thread does show is that we like "our world, our imagination". We like to be able to tweak things. But, EEP is too much tweaking for me. I use mostly shared environment.

That's one of the things that's not decided though. The first decision in a SL blog about PBR is that ALM will become unable to be turned off. Many of us are hoping that is not the decision because some of us use ALM sparingly because of the fan issue. I'm lucky in that I have a desktop where I can easily clean my fans but those with laptops have a harder time cleaning the fans and are, in fact, now having fan/over-heating issues. This over-heating issue has been discussed in many threads of late not because of PBR but because of PBR, ALM will not be a choice to turn on or turn off any longer. It will just be on all the time. It's estimated that will kill about 1/3 of current users or force an upgrade to a gaming PC. We will have to wait to find out that decision re ALM. Unless I missed a blog that says ALM is not going to be forced to on all the time with PBR.

I'm gathering that and have been seeking out viewing some of this PBR created content for weeks so I could get an idea of what it looked like. From what I've seen so far, it's not what I would want. If someone could have put up some items that show what this will look like, that would have been good. Game changer doesn't make any sense to me because for me to view PBR created content I'd need to upgrade parts of my computer as it's not a gaming desktop but does fairly well considering I can clean the fans because ALM makes the fans work harder. And, I have to clean my fans a lot because of ALM. I'll have to see photos of SL items before I'd consider upgrading computer parts. I wish they'd do a spin off of this PBR and let those who want to gravitate to it, do so, and those that don't, don't. Like they did Sansar.

I asked if Albedo was just tint or a color and was told no. I posted a tutorial from YouTube on PBR and the finished content of a living room and said it looks mostly NOT textured but rather tinted. And, the response I got was perhaps they forgot to texture it. I also in my previous posts about PBR said I couldn't find any photos of PBR content. So I put in the search bar just now PBR gaming content and went Oh my gawd! Not a good Oh my gawd. Many items looked shiny or bumpy like a dragon for example but the color looked flat just like it was tinted and not textured. The PBR gaming content I saw was for more like war video games because you need metalness and roughness for weapons, not to mention the shiny. Most clothes and wood furniture and a lot of things in real life and SL do NOT have roughness nor metalness. I'm not so sure PBR gaming looking content is what I want for SL. I don't like it that shiny for one, nor tinted for two. Since I was told one could use a diffuse map instead of just tinting with the albedo, I then got to thinking it's going to be very realistic. After looking at PBR gaming content, it's a bit blah and better suited for war games. LL should have done something with the brightness and the darkness because the brightness and the darkness had far, far more interesting 3D effects. The brightness and the darkness in the SL editor could turn a 2D texture into one that had actual 3D effects. Look at the textures of the clothing below - there is no 3D effect. Here's one example of a PBR created object; it's very shiny but not my cup of tea...

I'm reading the TOS now and there are stipulations. As far as blogs, they have to put the creator's name for everything so that's advertising and different. It says we are free to use items that are on "public display". Private is another matter or the landowner can set rules of no photographs or machinemas. And, it says the license is for what "we" created (and put on public display)...which means LL or what? License Conditions The Licenses are subject to the following conditions: (a) Land Owner Consent for Snapshots and Machinima If you wish to take a snapshot or capture machinima of content on another Resident’s land, then: For Snapshots, check whether the covenant for the land prohibits snapshots. If it does, then you need special permission from the land owner to take the snapshot. If it allows snapshots or doesn’t address them, then you do not need special permission from the land owner as long as you comply with any terms that may be in the covenant. For Machinima, check whether the covenant for the land allows machinima. If it does not or doesn’t address machinima, then you need special permission from the land owner to capture machinima. If it allows machinima, then you do not need special permission from the land owner as long as you comply with any terms that may be in the covenant. For Mainland or Linden Homes parcels where Linden Lab is the estate owner, you do not need land owner consent to take snapshots, but you do need special permission from the land owner to capture machinima. The “land owner” is not the estate owner, but the Resident identified as the land owner in the “General” tab under “About Land.” For private islands where Residents are estate owners, you must check the covenant for the private island as provided above. (b) Avatar Consent for Machinima For machinima, you must have the consent of all Residents whose avatars or Second Life names are featured or recognizable in the machinima. This includes avatars who are featured in a shot, avatars whose names are legible, and avatars whose appearance is sufficiently distinctive that they are recognizable by members of the Second Life community. Consent is not required if an avatar is not recognizable and is merely part of a crowd scene or shown in a fleeting background. Consent is not required for any snapshots. (c) Other Intellectual Property Licenses It’s important to remember that the Licenses are only copyright licenses for the 3D content we created that is displayed in-world. They do not include any permission to use the trademarks of Linden Lab or Residents, and they do not give any copyright permission to use music or sound recordings that may be performed in-world. They also do not give any copyright permission to use any website or video content that may be streamed from outside the Second Life virtual world environment. If the content that you capture is subject to any trademark, service mark, trade dress, publicity rights, or other intellectual property or proprietary rights, you must obtain the necessary licenses and permissions to use the content, and you use it at your own risk. For general information on intellectual property, please see our Intellectual Property Policy. If you seek legal advice about a specific situation, we suggest contacting a lawyer. Linden Lab cannot provide you with legal advice. (d) Compliance with Linden Lab Policies You must be in full compliance with the Second Life Terms of Service, Community Standards, Trademark Guidelines, and all other policies of Linden Lab. (e) Sublicensee or Transferee Obligations If you wish to allow others to distribute or use your snapshots and machinima, you may sublicense or transfer your License To Use your snapshots and machinima. If you do, the sublicensee or transferee must assume your obligations under paragraph 2(c) https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Snapshot_and_machinima_policy

I gather the SL community thinks I'm having wild imaginings about PBR. But, I think it could be very high end; and, if it is, it could end up no mod everything in that people will be very possessive of it. What I'm fearing with PBR is here come the 2048's.

It sounds like it grants "us" a license to use someone's content in snapshots/machinamas in publicly accessible areas. Oh, legalese. Not for now. I have no more time. Thanks for sharing that though. There must be more to read. Yay.

I wasn't directly relating to every word you said when I quoted you but chose the word "crap" because that's a word that's been passed around when PBR comes up. But, I really doubt it will be crap. However, I never meant to imply you did, sorry about that. You said it may be a powerful tool. I think so too. Anyhow, I know what a commercial use license is. I doubt someone who needs to make a commercial will go to Shutterstock for a 2D photo to make a commercial. They will most likely need a photo for a greeting card or a calendar perhaps. However, these commercials I see on YouTube with SL made stuff or other 3D seller places, where the names escape me now, are pretty good. Since I've been in SL, I can tell it's SL made and I've posted a few links here for others to view it. But, some would rate an 8 to a 9 in that they could fool some other people into thinking the furniture in the commercial are real. What license they have to use it outside of SL I am not sure. But, if it gets to area of making hundreds of thousands of dollars for commercial enterprises, I don't think creator's are going to settle for just a SL user license for their products and get paid a dollar here, two dollars there. As far as the quality of PBR, if some of these commercials with SL objects look that good now, I can't even imagine what PBR would like it. I think it will look real. We will have to wait and see.

It may be "crap" that causes more lag, or in a year or two when people get really good at it, it will be commercial grade. Or, if people start out good, it could be commercial grade in a short period of time. If PBR products come out as realistic as real life as PBR intends, it will eventually be sought after by those who make commercials. But, commercials with 3D objects and textures are already in commercials, under what license I have no idea. I see SL-esque commercials on my YouTube every day. They appear in music that is often considered background music but they are all over the place on YouTube. If PBR is even better suited for commercials and commercial use, it will probably need a commercial license if the SL objects are used for commercials. A person who sells digital goods can offer both - a user license and a commercial license to use their product. Many places already have that. Shutterstock is one where people with stock photos can offer both a user and a commercial license. The commercial licensing is way more expensive on Shutterstock if one wants to use a photo for commercial use.

Yeah, it was maybe a bit confused but CC involves having to give credit to any creators when using someone else's creation as I glanced over it. However, my fear remains that we are *heading* towards commercial licensing with PBR because it is the standard for commercials and was invented by the film industry. Not to mention 3D modeled and textured items *are* already in commercials. SL is user licensed for the vast majority of it including any textures one buys that are copy/mod/transfer - most of those are for use in SL only too. User licensing is affordable. Commercial licensing is expensive. I'm cautious about this PBR thing that it won't lead to commercial licensing and be very expensive. But, SL creator's could allow both - user and commercial perhaps if it becomes necessary. The commercially licensed product will be way more expensive than the user licensed product that is for sure. They will be two complete different prices.

I've never heard of that but I think that creative commons is speaking about a commercial license. One thing I do know about full perm items is almost all say that the license to use it is for SL only. That's the user license on full perm items - SL only. Now, with this PBR in the pipeline, PBR is used mostly for commercials. I see them on my YouTube page every day. If those people used full perm items, the items are not for use outside of SL period. I'm not sure about non full perm items. I fear PBR is going to bring about that above, the CC license, which is a commercial license, and that will raise the prices of items in SL considerably. SL is an MMO for fun and the user license helps keep it affordable. If it goes commercial, that isn't what SL is to most of us and I fear SL will shoot itself in the foot. Imagine how much money someone can make on a commercial. Should creator's get peanuts for making the items while others are making tens of thousands of dollars on a commercial using their products without a commercial license to do so? As far as the textures I make, I don't want them used in a commercial enterprise outside of SL period. The textures I make are for SL only. I fear commercial licensing is coming down the road with PBR.

So many think property rights of the items we have in real life compare to the property rights we have or should have in SL. SL doesn't work that way though. I think Gacha may have been started partly because it gave the purchaser some property rights like in real life. However, I don't want to go off topic on Gacha. Just sayin'. Plus, I think the vast majority of people in SL want copy/mod not mod/transfer. However, mod/transfer is more like a real life good but it's still ultimately user licensed and still ultimately owned by LL. Virtual goods are wanting to become realized assets. Wonder if that will ever change in SL?

I agree, Rick. But, wasn't sure what to do about that stupid root prim. Or if I leave it off, it could cause a confusion that the mesh model is stolen. But, we buy things in real life and they are our property. We can change them a million different ways and even re-sell them. But, in SL we under a kind of user license, I think, but each user license is allowed to be set by each creator. Now, with full perm items, the user license is set by the mesh modeler and each one is different. And, I just wanted to say that yes some mesh modelers allow giving it out for free as long as it's not full perm and as long as it doesn't include maps. User license is unique to each. However, the free give away may have stipulations too such as you can give it away to a few friends, give away in a hunt, but may not be used as a store gift and never full perm to anyone. I'm bringing up user license because even though we buy stuff in SL, it's not just that we are user licensed here, ultimately LL owns everything. This is why other virtual worlds have started where we can own the property - like Decentraland. Not that I like the looks of Decentraland nor do I want to own personal virtual property myself. I'm just sayin' some things. SL is user licensed through LL to us, I believe.

Yes, SL has those kinds of resellers, too. But, I think many people don't know that many mesh modelers are not good at texturing and don't want to give texturing the time of day, but they love to model. And, vice versa with texture artists. I also think many people in SL don't realize much of what is created in even the most popular stores is team work of many people. I know this for a fact because I consulted with one very popular store here in SL to work in the making of the items. Many large stores are many people working together. One can see with their eyes if something is textured or took time or is a very original design in the texture. People go for those tinted items because they are cheaper and it's a market for alts. But, with PBR and ALM on at all times I'm just not seeing how mod could be so important when the texture has to correlate to three other maps to work with the lighting. So, people just basically want to tint items darker or what if a clothing item is copy/mod? They want to match the top to the shoes, so to speak? That's what I thought when I made those items I did copy/mod that they have a basic texture but they could tint them darker into shades that they like or a shade that would match to other items they are wearing.

Ignorance, well everybody learns in steps because we have a real life too. But, me just writing some stuff about this issue not directed at Rick Daylight.... I think there is a lot of arrogance associated with this it must be original mesh thing to be any good. It's all original mesh somewhere at some time, and the fact is there are many mesh modelers who do not put textures with their kits. It's just a gray model and the maps. Why? Probably because they are not good at both, or prefer to only model or don't have time to do both. This is where your texture artists come in. I want to make something artful and I love Photoshop and other texture creating programs but I don't care for modeling. So, I am useful to many modelers. One texture took me 20 hours one time. And, many textures take nearly as long. People don't realize the layering that can go into making a good texture. But, again, many are only mesh modelers, they don't do both. And, so? Let it be. Let some modelers model and sell to those who want to texture without putting it down. Again, this is not directed at Rick Daylight. I feel I opened a can of worms here bringing this up in the other thread, and I had no idea so many people wanted mod nor did I know there were so many copy/mod clothing sellers in SL. I thought all clothes were pretty much across the board copy only. As far as so many people wanting mod and wanting to put their own texture on it, that doesn't sound like it will go well with PBR and ALM on at all times. ALM going thru a texture that doesn't correlate to the other maps for PBR sounds like it would look horrid.

My reasons were because I didn't want that darn root prim being textured too if someone slaps a texture on there, and the second is that someone will think it's stolen; and, in a way to say it the short way, that could just cause confusion. The mesh modeler I need to work with is a niche market and has left SL a few years ago. These may be templates but they come with no actual texture made by the mesh modeler, only the blank maps where the textures go. But, there are no finished textures that come with the gray mesh model. So, if someone slaps a square texture on there it won't have much detail in the garment and no shading, etc. But, anyhow, it is so much work to make all these colors and most colors will not sell but perhaps a few as they are either seasonal colors or colors people don't want nor will use anyways. I stopped buying fatpacks a long time ago because I may use 5 colors at most. However, I don't want to cause a confusion where I am selling a textured item but the model wasn't made by me and then a big *it's stolen* confusion happens. But, I will say I did get over that fear and have sold some items copy/mod with no root prim on them and nothing bad happened.

That makes sense. However, I was taught, being a newbie, to put the default transparency texture found in all our libraries on the root prim and for some reason that's always stayed in my mind as the right way to do it without thinking. Like I think SL is magic or something. But, just me blabbing (not to you specifically Frionil) all in all, for me anyhow, if I have a root prim that is changing the name of the garment to my name, I'd be worried if I allow modify that the root prim will get exposed by the purchaser playing around with the modify area. If I do do any copy/mod items, I'm going to leave the root prim off altogether. Some of the full perm items I have, the original mesh creator has been gone for a few years now anyhow, so what's the difference? The economy is sluggish and I don't want to do all that work to make lots and lots of colors, so I might just do lighter shades of colors and then people could tint them darker if they wanted or put a tacky texture on them if that's what they want to do because I don't care if they do. The alpha glitch thing is a problem too when things are not modify.

We always have to leave a margin for human error. Overall, the products are very satisfactory and, in my experience, there isn't that much human error in SL. But, me again on these root prims for a minute. Yesterday, I put a texture on a full perm item I have and forgot there was a root prim. So, lo and behold, I slap my texture on there and then there appears the root prim. I had forgot I put a root prim there because I am shying away from using root prims on the full perm items I make because constantly testing to make sure the root prim isn't showing is a hassle so this particular item was older where I had put a root prim. And, if my oversight ends up in customers hands I would feel terrible. I think I may leave root prims in the dust and not use them anymore at all. If someone buys something from me, it's because they liked the idea of my texturing. Plus, I do make full perm items into something else because that's what they are for since the original full perm already exists there is no need to make a replica of it. So, I wonder if I should make some of my items copy/mod. I always texture things so all one could do is tint it darker. Like if it's gray, tint it darker to charcoal or black. I don't like making tons of colors anyways as it's too much work, plus I want to learn BOM. But, human error is part of life.

I have a lot of avatars in SL too but not in the way of alts. I have 4 accounts total but those accounts have multiple avatars I change into. I never thought of them as friends but just different aspects of me and the way I want to look or present myself. With my humans; sometimes I have been a human avatar for a long time without a change of look because even with having many avatars, only a few became my favorites and I was them for a long time. Then, something happens and I need a change. A change of look. This happens in real life too. We color our hair or start dressing differently, and for men they may grow a beard or mustache in real life for example as a change of look. And, I go through this in SL too where I just need a complete change and make over. With my Dinkie cat avatars though, I like your idea of making them all friends, or sisters or family. With BOM now for Dinkies there are much more unique and creative ways to make the little cats now. There are times though too with my Dinkies I just need a change of look but it's much harder to do with Dinkie's as it's such a niche market. And, the economy is slowing creators down. It's a tough time to sink a lot of money into making new items right now. I am grateful some creators are making BOM stuffs for the Dinkies. With humans, it's just endless stuff that we could never get all the way through all these items even if we had an eternity, imo. I also think of Black Friday coming up and sometimes I want to splurge then for a human and make a change of avatar. But, often I go back to my favorite for reasons I never really asked myself why nor thought much about it. It's never really price that have made certain avatars my favorite, it just happens. So even though I have a lot of avatars, some are not used much.

Most furniture in SL is mostly fully mod and I've seen non-noobs slap ugly textures on those and the creator's name is much more prominent on rezzed items. So why furniture mod when it could be resized via a resizer and the mod capabilities turned off? I'll never forget the first time I hit control + alt + t and saw all these objects whizzing around me. There was even a root prim coming from my bracelet. I was shopping at main popular creators of the day the first time I saw all those root prims. Also, with all the full perm items and resellers since they didn't create it, why not allow modify? Slapping on a texture will texture the root prim too and make the root prim visible if one doesn't know what they are doing. I've also heard there is a way to change creator name by using a script, but I don't know if this is true or not. Yet, still, furniture copy/mod and almost all clothing in SL copy only. Why this difference? But still, they need a hud that includes changing the alpha area which gets blocked when one takes away the permission to modify.

1 and 2, most people in SL don't know how to do that if clothing became mostly mod in SL. And, most full perm people are such novices, they don't know much. It takes a long time to learn stuff here. And, there are some steps you left out above like checking EDIT LINKED + SELECT FACE and then clicking on the garment before retexturing a linked root prim item, especially if the root prim isn't inside the body. I've been in SL and with control + alt + t had things (root prims) flying all around me for many, many, many years. As far as 3, a person could only change the transparency to 100% if they know how to use the EDIT LINKED feature and clicked only on the root prim and then put a transparency on it. But, most likely there already is a transparency on the root prim or should be. I think that the root prim problems are the main reason that's why the texture area is not accessible for most items in SL. Modify is accessible via scripts only. Even some full perm item sold by the greats in SL attach a hud for some furniture and a resizer area to work the texture area of a rezzable item. However, many huds, the person can work tint, glow, full bright from the hud. So, why cannot they add change to alpha masking or none via a script on the hud also? As far as price, I think that's the second biggest reason why. But, all in all, it's both.

It could possibly be solved by micro root prims that go inside the avatar's body, although I think some do this now. There is just a paranoia that someone will try to re-texture the garment which re-textures the root prim too and takes the root prim off of transparency that some maker's of full perm items are too afraid to let it go to mod because that would cause a huge hassle for everyone. I think many people in SL are very savvy that it's a full perm item and know the score that that creator did the texturing but did not make the mesh model that there are some that could be made mod, but then comes in ego where the person who did the texturing wants it in their name. Even many of "the greats" are using some full perm items. But, the greats probably know how to hide the root prim better. Some full perm items don't allow movement of the root prim though, that's another problem. It's probably done that way in case the mesh model needs to be checked to make sure it wasn't stolen, so the root prim has to stay floating about in order for models to be checked from time to time. That's my take. As for the red dress, yes it looks like a full perm item.

Just wanted to say something about mod clothing: I doubt clothing will ever be mod, although I have made a few items for Dinkies to mod so they could tint a bit darker if they wanted to, etc. The problem is most clothing is *probably* not created by the creator name and there is a root prim attached to the clothing that changes the item into the root prim owner's name, and that is precisely why most clothing is no mod. With this root prim, if clothing were mod, if the purchaser tries to re-texture the garment the root prim will also be re-textured and thus the root prim will show and ruin the piece of clothing for ever being worn again unless someone knows the tricks of re-texturing just the garment and not the clothing item and the root prim, which most in SL don't. It would be nice if the creator said in the picture of their ad or description that the item is alpha masked. Should SL content creator's consider this? Of note, it's the root prim that is set to transparency that is causing this problem. What the root prim does is change the mesh model into the root prims owner's name and makes the root prim owner name the creator. This is not copy-botting. This is how it's done all the time in SL. However, the root prim is set to transparency. If purchaser textures it, they will texture the root prim also which will go off transparency and ruin the garment. This is the main reason why clothing/hair in SL is no mod. Just turn on control + alt + t and one will see invisible things flying about their avatar. Those invisible things flying about your avatar are the transparent root prims.

Imma EEP Dummie. I've just used shared environment plus Midday when living on a 24-hour cycle sim. Now, the 24-hour cycle sim must have had a different midday as it was kind of interesting and pretty lighting to just change the azimuth when on Midday and it created some interesting lighting that didn't kill all the shadows. But, I found if I was not on a 24-hour cycle sim that Midday and changing the azimuth doesn't do much. What I'd like to find is a Midday lighting or day lighting that makes the skins look good but doesn't kill all the shadows and make the full bright and glow way too bright. Anyone have suggestions how to find something like this? I played around with about 50 EEPS at least and found nothing I like. Well, I actually found one but there was no way I knew how to save it. It wasn't the EEP alone that I liked, it was after I fiddled around for about an hour, I finally got something I liked but didn't know how to save it. So, it's gone now. I want a natural lighting that makes skins look good and doesn't kill all the shadows and that I can just click apply to myself. Does anyone know of what might work? I don't want photography nor sky effects, I just want to have a happy SL with some shadows and skins that look better.

If you are speaking about bankruptcy; I listed that as well in some of my posts in this thread. All money transmitters in the USA do not cover either crypto nor tokens in the event of a bankruptcy. Not that I know of, anyhow. However, some US money transmitters cover the U.S. Dollar balance in the event of a bankruptcy (some); I have no idea of each one's exact TOS. I think the linden would be considered a type of money as long as there is a platform to spend it on. If LL turns the lights off and closes altogether, I think we would not recover our money from Tilia, as it's not insured and the TOS states there are no warranties.