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Ranting and letting of steam works. And if LL does take in some of our concerns, added bonus.

Added a few lines

You're child avatars. You're required to be modest because you're pretending to be children. We are not.

This thread is only good to rant, let of steam. The decisions are all made elsewhere en put in place already. So yeah, that makes all these heated discussions pretty much comedy. Sorry to say so. The Lab does what it always does. They let us talk, rant, suggest, bag..... and then they still stay on their own track.

you also not but both are part of it. use search and however you can't go to them anymore use A setting and underaged keywords .... go sit before you hit enter... same for groups.

I think I need this explained to me (in a simple way) because I'm not seeing how the new modesty layer won't work. Okay so say I'm a child avatar. I get a new mesh body that is complaint with the non-removable baked on layer. If I want to use a different skin. I'm assuming it has to have a baked on modesty layer also. Is the point that I'm not allowed to wear a different skin? Then if I try to put on a nude bom layer I would be breaking the rules. This part makes sense to me. I would be clearly breaking TOS in this case. Now if I wanted to just go with the starter avatar and manipulate it to child size or even just say I'm a child wearing it ... there would have to be one that has a baked in layer available to me supplied by Linden Lab... however if they don't make one or provide one I just can't go this route and also be compliant.

I don't know really your position. Every one of your posts that I've seen are like: "Hahaa wow you guys are still going haha wow why is this thread still going haha."

Welcome, and don't worry about the confusion. There are many of of here years and are still confused Just don't get frustrated with all the on-boarding and learning about bodies, heads, BoM, skins, clothing, how to rezz things you bought, etc. It's worth the headaches in the end!

Ok, part one.. Part two.. Ouch! Think I have whiplash! Where did something change that NOW they are no longer a "unquestionably adult avatar"? I think you are asking, "if an adult wears the modesty layer, will they be considered a child"? ..No, that does not follow logically. Good one! Just because someone wears "magic underwear", does not mean they are a "Mormon" (a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints).

Theyre easily a decade too late in my opinion. As someone whos been playing all kinds of social games for at least the last 17 years now i think. We all watched social media take off with a younger audience, and smartphones really took advantage of that, and social games lost popularity. It happened to everyone. For most people it wasnt the game, it was the social aspect. So give them a social media app in their pocket and theyll use that before playing a social game. A lot of other platforms recognized this super quick and started development on mobile apps, some later than others, but really the only ones that caught on quick survived. Roblox made an ios app in 2012 and an android app in 2014 and their population recovered then skyrocketed. Habbo made an ios app in 2014 and an android version shortly after and their population recovered and still slowly climbs. Runescape didnt catch on until 2018 with OSRS and RS3 until 2021 but they also saw a huge increase in users with both. But a lot of smaller games that didnt pull it off, or didnt have the development potential to pull it off, are either now stuck with a minuscule playerbase or entirely died. I dont think LL was fast enough here, i think itll still do good for the growth of the game, but i doubt it will have the effect that it had on other platforms.

So if one is against your position, one can go? Nice spoiled kid reaction. A+

Good RolePlaying!

Here's a question .... Would an previous unquestionably adult avatar explicitly wearing a modesty layer now reasonably fall under the rules for child avatars, as they are abiding by one of the rules for child avatars ?

How many kid communities have you been a part of? I've been a part time kid avatar for almost 3 years, and it most certainly is not the normal in any reputable kid communities. The only place I'd even be remotely compelled to believe that, are teens who skirt the line, but they don't represent the whole of the kid community.

On the other hand, LL gave us torches in our library inventory. Use them if needed!

Even I, who has clung onto Windows 7 like a sloth to a branch, finally had to downgrade to Windows 10 a few months back. Too much important stuff simply wouldn't run, or I couldn't get updates, any more. The final straw was an odd glitch in the latest FS PBR beta, which was resolved by changing to Windows 10. Windows 10 LTSC seems not too bad so far. Funny though... I bought a new HP PC, with the latest Intel i7 14th gen CPU, 64GB DDR5 RAM and fast NVMe storage. Windows 10 on it takes longer to start up and shut down then my older, earlier gen HP of the same type with Windows 7, a 9yo CPU, early generation SSD and DDR4. Progress, huh?

This is exactly how the child avatar community is feeling right now.

Why? Non-sexual public nudity is allowed in moderate regions, and sex is allowed behind closed doors, so why should we have to wear a modesty layer? Moderate regions are 18-rated. The onus is on child avi users to work around that and avoid anything adult-themed. Refusal to accept that will just end with child avis being banned from M as well as A, because there are a lot more people who like to get naked in their bedroom on a moderate sim than there are child avi users.

It is all mainly a spoiled children discussion. It remembers me of the time when I was teaching 11 and 12 years old kinds. They also see themselves standard as ugly ducklings and treated totally unfair. Mmm, this thread is pretty good roleplaying in fact /me runs fast. I'll show myself out again.

I'm really amazed at all of this, especially the baked-in modesty layer. I'm against it just because I don't think it solves any problems, won't stop aberrant behaviour, potentially creates TOS-criminals out of most people, and what would Ken and Barbie dolls think? Right now kids can have Ken and Barbie that do not have 'modesty layers' (although ken apparently had his butt and bump removed) - BUT ADULTS can't have non-genitaled (or non-detailed) skins on SL.. it really is part LMAO and SMFH... It's rather so stupid, and comes across as incredibly prude, and punishes a whole swatch of mature adult users - based on the (alleged/suspected/feared) TOS-breaking actions (it's already covered) of 0.01% or less of deviant users. I have no specific dog in this fight, as I don't use a child avatar in SL, but I am against pointless and infantilizing policies - almost embarrassing policies - (should you be telling someone else about SL, and they'd be WTF really?) What I find entertaining and somewhat concerning though, is the amount of respondents who seem to want to be child avatars and run around naked for some reason.. Really? Is this entirely necessary to your existence? Could you not just create an Opensim, or even on your local machine/local host and just do your 'naked' RP there? So very strange how many want to lawyer the TOS, or push the boundaries "It's not a child cuz has ears or tail", or "My age is your subjective!" - completely denying, ignoring and even ARGUING against KNOWN definitions, body traits, body sizes and features that almost every artist knows - what defines child-like features from an adult.. .and how you can infantilize/childize a 'adult' avatar to break the rules - but has a lollipop in their mouth, holding a teddy bear, a bit knock-kneed, 'shy', has big eyes, has flushed cheeks, and calls herself 'naughty', or the avatar sold is featured with a photo holding up a finger "Shhhh it's our secret" .. Give me a break. So my opinion that I want to maintain people's dignity around here as adults, and for LL not to infantilize and criminalize their users, also has to be tempered with the absolute BS some users present trying to skirt the rules. So then I will default to 'behaviours' and 'actions' to allow the most freedom and leeway, without being to prude on everyone. And, if people can't govern themselves, and don't have the ability or brainpower to comprehend what is stated in a TOS, and the spirit of it, and reading it as a 'whole' to get the big picture, and want to nitpick, lawyer it, 'what if'.. bla bla bla.. then THAT forces LL to take stupid measures like baked underwear - then so be it. People can't do it themselves, then Mommy and Daddy have to make you. Sad. There's no confusion for the regular person that has a normal brain on their shoulders. If people weren't constantly trying to skirt the rules and screw around - and acted maturely and with common sense, then silly policies wouldn't need to be enacted. I absolutely HATE that LL is considering a modesty layer.. Clothing is modesty layer... But there are some people bent on pushing the boundaries, so now we're at the point something has to be done.. Embarrassing, really. All fearful responses that are not warranted. If someone de-renders their clothing? How would they know? That person is a pervert. And if there is nothing to see under there, why bother? Pointless. What if their clothing fails to download/render? Their base skin won't have any details anyway. If they do, I wonder why they would. Not necessary. Even in the most 'innocent" of "RPS" as a poster said it.. is there really that much demand or need to have specific details on skin anyway (on a child avatar)? I'd say no. Keep in mind that I may be unaware of creators who are making 'child avatar' skins or w/e with full details on them.. then I'd ask them why? Of course, for a mature adult out there I also would think 'who cares if they have details', as they are roleplaying or recreating real life situations in SL that are 1) Innocent and 2) Would seem strange if all bodies were non-descript Barbie types... So I can see both sides.. What won't change is "Pervert", and "misuse" with any policy because they will be impossible to police anyway.. unless you have "Panty Police" going around SL camming under people's clothes to see if they have a 'modesty layer' on or not. It should begin and end with any AR report is if a child avatar is engaged in non-G or family friendly ways in SL and be done with it. Allow the most freedom, but reminding everyone what acceptable behaviours are.

because everyone has to make sacrifices, that' just how life works.

Wrong, "Moderate" doesn't allow promotion of sexual activities in public nor private: "Residents in these spaces should therefore expect to see a variety of themes and content. Stores that sell a range of content that includes some "sexy" clothing or objects can generally reside in Moderate rather than Adult regions. Dance clubs that feature "burlesque" acts can also generally reside in Moderate regions as long as they don't promote sexual conduct, for instance through pose balls (whether in "backrooms" or more visible spaces). However if any of these businesses uses adult-oriented search tags, the region may be categorized as Adult and blocked from appearing in non-Adult search."

Why are you on such a tirade to make everything and everyone modest in SL?

We all have to go after it because no body comes with it indeed. But we only see a handfull quite "normal" adults using kids avi's here. A huge part won't come, they'r no idiots... for a reason! Sexuality is nearly as normal in large parts of the kidscommunities as in the adult ones.