Josh Susanto Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 "A deadline for WHAT?" you ask?Not to worry.My actions will be well within my rights, and you'll know what I've done when I've done it.The good news for LL is that they can move the deadline any time they like, simply by making responsible decisions, and carrying them out.The current deadline is that they have until they shut off my magic boxes to eliminate any possibility that DD will steal anything from me without me being duly compensated and in a timely fashion. And again you ask "the deadline for WHAT?".And again, I say that I fully intend to stay within my rights, and that you'll know what I've done when I've done it.In the meantime, I should explain that, unlike LL, I at least do try to fully prepare for all my deadlines.Thus I have completed Step One:I have opened an IMVU account with the avatar name CommerceTeamLinden.See you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super String Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I couldn't stop wondering... Maybe Josh's a hacker... or a blogger or a reporter? or a lawyer? or a taxman? Maybe Josh happenes to be a Linden's wife and is going to slap her husband's ass... Maybe Josh is as rich as Mark Zuckerberg and is going to buy Linden Lab and fire CommerceTeam Linden... Maybe Josh is Kim Jong-un who is preparing to launch a rocket toward Linden's building... Mayebe......................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Well, those things probably can't ALL be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumn Osterham Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 No, your username in IMVU is Guest_CommerceTeamLinden. Get a VIP cheapskate. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ry0ta Exonar Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Autumn Osterham wrote: Get a VIP cheapskate. ;-) LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Autumn Osterham wrote: No, your username in IMVU is Guest_CommerceTeamLinden. Get a VIP cheapskate. ;-) (emphasis mine) ROFLMFAO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super String Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Josh seriously we should not talk to them, we should talk to "other" lindens, I mean employees that are NOT in commerce/website/marketplace team. Let this disaster be informed to RL friends who know Lindens in other departments, or tell a blogger or reporter or other IT/game industry fellow who knows someone in executive level. I'm sure everyone can find someone through friend's friends, social network (whether RL or SL) is very powerful. I believe today's disaster (wrong store name/item) and continuing mysterious money stolen scandal are surely unbearable mistakes for a company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 >Get a VIP cheapskate. I will. I just wanted to test the thing out a bit first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tateru Nino Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I imagine that there's very little you could do with an IMVU account by that name that would not be actionable defamation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Tateru Nino wrote: I imagine that there's very little you could do with an IMVU account by that name that would not be actionable defamation. You just HAD to ruin the surprise .. didn't ya? Doggone it. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 >I imagine that there's very little you could do with an IMVU account by that name that would not be actionable defamation. But CommerceTeam Linden is not a specific user. Who, exactly, will I have defamed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tateru Nino Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 That would all depend on what you do or say. Defamation can be of a specific person, a group of people, or an organisation. Also, the use of the word "Linden" in association with anything said or done that relates to or refers to Linden Lab or Second Life can be treated as trademark infringement. Obviously, you'd be legally free and clear to express negative opinions under a different name - so long as you didn't present any opinion as fact. Can of worms, though. Makes for interesting theatre, but I'd talk to a lawyer first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Commerce Team Linden would seem to be a public figure, and not a person. That will be sort of a moot point after LL gets liquidated in 6 months anyway, and I seriously doubt they'll succed with legal action against me in that time, especially since they'll have to explain to people why they were swatting flies instead of digging themselves out from under a mountain of their own fecal matter. In the meantime, my IMVU CommerceTeam Linden bot will mostly just regurgitate absurd statements from CTL's posts on this forum. Surely that doesn't automatically qaualify as defamation, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tateru Nino Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Josh Susanto wrote: Commerce Team Linden would seem to be a public figure, and not a person. See? That right there is why you should talk to a lawyer first. Josh Susanto wrote: That will be sort of a moot point after LL gets liquidated in 6 months anyway, and I seriously doubt they'll succed with legal action against me in that time, especially since they'll have to explain to people why they were swatting flies instead of digging themselves out from under a mountain of their own fecal matter. The legal people are separate, and I don't think reasonable people think that a business employing over 200 people can only do one thing at a time, especially when they're in entirely different domains. Josh Susanto wrote: In the meantime, my IMVU CommerceTeam Linden bot will mostly just regurgitate absurd statements from CTL's posts on this forum. Surely that doesn't automatically qaualify as defamation, does it? Only if you omit the context. But it is classic trademark infringement, either way. There's no question of that in my mind - and in order to keep the trademark, the Lab would have to take action against you as soon as it became aware of it. If a trademark holder doesn't take action, they can lose the trademark. Plus, you also lost at least one legal leg when you made the original forum post. Like I said, it would make entertaining theatre, and it would be interesting to see how the Lab tackles it, and what causes of action they'd select. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtwtfss71 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'm just curious Josh. You've said in other threads I've read of yours that you sell your items at 9L each. I'm assuming this is because you wish to not pay a percentage to SL. I get it, but, as a designer, I'm not sure how aware you are of how YOUR business decision (based on anger and nothing more, in my opinion) actually hurts the rest of the designers who value their time and creative know-how and need to charge more for their products to actually make it worthwhile. Not trying to be mean. I just think change starts from within. You aren't perfect. Calm down and take a look at yourself first before judging others. P.S. Not sure, since you obviously aren't contributing to SL's bottom line in any way, how your threats would be taken seriously anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madman626 Fall Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 who are you to make that call thats just your view,, other might think the same about your contributing to SL's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 > You've said in other threads I've read of yours that you sell your items at 9L each. I have recently begun to increase some of my prices. >I'm assuming this is because you wish to not pay a percentage to SL. I was doing it as an incentive to get SLM's delivery system to work correctly before I would raise my prices, and it seemed to have basically worked, so I began to raise my prices gradually as long as the good delivery rate held. In recent months, deliveries have really gone pretty smoothly, so you will see some of my prices beginning to creep up as a reflection of sales rates for the specific items. Since the DD deployment I have continued to raise prices. The reasons being A) that my own deliveries really are continuing just fine as far as I can tell (I'm only using MB, natch) and B) the 9L thing was intended to be used as a long-term thing, as-needed, in order to provide a model incentive system for other merchants who want LL to do something specific before being allowed to collect commissions... but now I don't see any long term for SL as a whole, and I'm just trying to pick up some additional coin while it's still possible. >I get it, but, as a designer, I'm not sure how aware you are of how YOUR business decision (based on anger and nothing more, in my opinion) actually hurts the rest of the designers who value their time and creative know-how and need to charge more for their products to actually make it worthwhile. Why do you believe that you need to charge more? My most profitable items tend to take only a few minutes to produce, and I have essentially zero training or licensed software that could be used to rationalize charging much more than I do charge in order to offest production costs. If other designers feel that they're somehow unable to compete with my rocks and whatnot, maybe they should have considered that before getting a bunch of impressive diplomas and buying a bunch of applications they don't even need to make a rock in the first place. It's not really my problem that they didn't calculate form my possible existence before they decided to "become designers" rather than just start designing. Moreover; raising my prices to approach those of my competitors is only an approach to demand price if, as my competitors do, I should also buy listing enhancements to generate additional demand. I won't do that because buying listing enhancements is essentially no different from gambling (with which I have moral issues as a sincere capitalist) That is: buying listing enhancements is betting that LL won't do something to destroy a large part of their utility by borking their own market website or things connected to it. In my own observation, that's not such great bet, and I see that a lot of other people are finally catching on to this point just recently. >Not trying to be mean. I just think change starts from within. You aren't perfect. Calm down and take a look at yourself first before judging others. How is me becoming a nicer person going to magically stop LL from destroying itself? I really don't see the connection. They need to make specific changes to their decision process and they need to make them NOW. How I feel about that or about them is totally beside the point. But someone has to keep putting up the red flag for them or they'll just let themselves get comfortable again. My fellow users mostly deserve a lot better than to let that happen, as, probably, do most of the people working at LL. Being nicer is not going to help these people. Even when I have asked for help to send a free book to Rodvik, no one seems especially interested in the project, and I actually got a warning from the moderator about the thread, including a link to a guidelines page that (naturally) contained no text. >P.S. Not sure, since you obviously aren't contributing to SL's bottom line in any way, how your threats would be taken seriously anyway. Because the real bottom line has far less to do with sales commissions than with recruiting and retaining new users. For about 5 years, I have been a fanatical advocate of Second Life membership. But now I'm becoming a fanatical critic. And there are a lot more people like me who just aren't being transparent about this shift in thinking, or at least not yet. If LL can't change my mind at this point, they're only going to have a harder job trying to change the minds of new users who log on and, right away, find a bunch of things not working correctly which, if they stick around at all, they'll quickly discover haven't worked correctly for months, or possibly years. So I'm inviting them to change my mind. In fact, I'm begging them to change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtwtfss71 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Okay. Now that was a very thought provoking thread. It was to the point and not full of anger. I bet you convince more people to help the cause with that kind of talk. Well done. And no, I'm not being sarcastic. I mean that sincerely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 >who are you to make that call thats just your view,, other might think the same about your contributing to SL's Thanks, but I think this kind of discussion is OK. I like to think that I mostly understand pretty well why a lot of people don't agree with certain decisions I make, and I'd rather have a dialogue that looks at it from several angles than simply be dismissive. I have a real distaste for dismissiveness, in fact. If I need to have my mind changed about something, I seriously hope that someone will let me know, and I extend the same basic respect to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 >Okay. Now that was a very thought provoking thread. It was to the point and not full of anger. I bet you convince more people to help the cause with that kind of talk. Well done. And no, I'm not being sarcastic. I mean that sincerely. Wow. That is a really weird response. Thank you, though. I'm happy to re-examine my thinking any time with your help, if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtwtfss71 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I just think that you have some very good points and when you say them in a thoughtful, mature way, you will get farther than you would by coming across as angry. I understand your frustration so I'm just trying to say that the threats likely won't get the right kind of attention. Your more calm and thoughtful response, however, certainly got my attention and raised my level of respect for you and your message. You have some really good points and you've allowed me to hear them. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tateru Nino Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Absolutely, that's the sort of thoughtful speech that he should have led off with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 I still try to use thoughtful speech with other merchants. But there are already a bunch of other people using it with the Lindens and not getting any result. I can play good cop with the Lindens when more people start playing bad cop with the Lindens. I think things might finally be headed that way, so if the Lindens suddenly start seeing me as someone who does more than insult them, I'll not waste the opportunity, you can be dead sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 What are you going to do when the deadline is reached? Cancel your account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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