Camming in close, problem

[Tari Landar]

Sorry if this isn't the most appropriate place, but I can't think of a better one.

I'm working on some pretty tiny things atm(not a first for me, so I'm not a complete noob on this). I'm running into a problem I've never had before though. It's been a while since I made something this tiny, so I might be missing something someone may be able to help with.

I used to be able to cam in very close on things like gems, that are itty bitty micros. Now I have all my settings what they were before, as far as I know, but I can't cam in as close as I used to be able to, and I don't know why. Now when I cam in, I can get kinda close, but not close enough. My camera tends to go right through what I am making, when it shouldn't.

An example, I'm making a ring-something I've done a lot-and I want to cam in really close on the gems-something I've been able to do in the past.  Just when I get to the point that I believe is close enough, the camera goes right through it(or the item turns transparent, it's hard for me to tell). I don't know if this is a setting I no longer have turned on(or off if that's the issue), but I've gone through everything I can think of, nothing is helping. When I scroll back my cam to get out of the item, I'm too far away.

Making the ring bigger, working on it, then resizing back down is the option I am using at the moment, but it's a pain in the butt when the item is already linked and I have to do this to every single piece(not too bad with a lower prim object, annoying with a higher prim one). But like I said, I've never had to do this before (except when I really was a noob and didn't know my cam controls very well).

Anyone got an insight? Did a setting change, or did I miss something? Could someone please run through whatever settings they know of-sort of a checklist as it were, in case I DID miss something.

I'm getting frustrated with myself, and I really need to finish this project, lol. I need to be able to cam in really close because I'm legally blind and I've learned my lesson about NOT getting close enough(and things end up being off, not centered, you get the drill). I hate constantly asking others to check my work to make sure I did it right(no depth perception makes doing some of these things very hard for me). I want to expand my work with tiny micros and such, but I can't with this limitation in place :(

Edited to add: I'm using phoenix viewer if that helps any. I do have firestorm too, but I have to keep my graphics down on that one to use it (guessing it's my system), and building doesn't go nearly as smooth for me.

[Alexia Gaelyth]

In Phoenix, there is an option (I believe under the edit preferences menu) that lets you disable your camera zoom's maximum zoom. You may want to check and make sure this isn't selected.

 

Good luck.

[Josh Susanto]

I just make everything about as big as possible for photographic purposes.

[Tari Landar]

I have the constraints disabled, the same way I always have. In phoenix this is under the advanced menu, btw, not that it matters much but I was checking the preferences area for any other setting that may have changed, didn't see any.

Some of the things I build I can make larger and then just shrink, but it's a pain in the butt when I'm working with linked objects that have dozens(at least) of pieces parts and they can't all be shrunk at the same time because of the size limitations. Not that it's not possible to individually shrink them of course, it's just not as easy when you've already got vision working against you. This is the very reason why I have to have others check my work, because after shrinking, not everything looks right, especially with sculpties. I might be a little bit too critical of my own work but things even being a tidge off, frustrates me sometimes.

Meh. I'll keep trying, lol. I know I never had this issue before but I haven't built anything with teeny prims in a good 6-8 months so, it's quite possible I am missing something. Probably something obvious too.

[Chosen Few]

Every camera in a 3D simulation has what's called a nearclip and a farclip.  Objects that are in between the two will be drawn; objects that are outside them won't be.  In SL, farclip is user configurable (we call it draw distance) but nearclip, unfortunately, is not.

In recent viewer updates, nearclip distance has been increased much further from the camera than it used to be.  This makes it very difficult to work on anything really small.  Get closer than a couple of centimeters, and the object disappears.  It's really annoying.

There are no user settings to change this, which of course is good news/bad news for you.  The good news is you're not doing anything wrong; you didn't bork your settings or anything like that.  The bad news is there's nothing you can do about it.

 

 

Camera contstraints, by the way, have nothing to do with this.  They simply restrict how far away from your avatar you can move your camera, prohibit the camera from going underground, etc.  They don't affect nearclip or farclip in any way.

[Tari Landar]

Dangit, lol.

Well ty for that explanation. I don't always follow all the technical jargon with some things, I just know what works and what doesn't, lol. I didn't think the cam controls had anything to do with it, I just know what settings I've always used and never had an issue til recently-which is why I thought maybe something moved, and I didn't notice(wouldn't be the first time, lol).

Oh well, at least the method I use now works. Not my preferable method, but it still functions. Thankfully my tester doesn't mind checking my work, too much

At least I'm getting better at my skills with micros, that's a plus

 

[Porky Gorky]

Good question and answers, I noticed the exact same thing, I've always zoomed right in to check the alignment of 2 prims, especially ones that have been cut as I learned long ago that you can't trust the numbers and everything needs to be perfect. I just assumed I had borked up my viewer settings as I've not been able to zoom in as far for quite a while now. 

I think Chosen Few should render up a few hundreds mini copies of himself so we can all carry one around in our pockets, It would make life so much easier. Would be more useful than Google.

Porky "how on earth am I going to network my washing machine to my router?"

Chosen "Well, you simply have to ....(insert ridiculously concise technical explanation here)...."

Porky "Gee Chosen, thanks, your amazing!!!!!"

Chosen "Yes. Yes I am"

:smileywink:

 

 

[Madeliefste Oh]

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Porky Gorky wrote:

 

I think Chosen Few should render up a few hundreds mini copies of himself so we can all carry one around in our pockets, It would make life so much easier. 

 

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Unfortunely he has chosen just to have a few around.

[Tiffy Vella]

Tari, there is a solution. I work constantly with the teensiest prims, and there's a simple trick to stop those close up prims from being cut off. In Phoenix, go to preferences/input & camera/camera options. Slide the camera view angle down to the minimum, (.09) and minimise the window. You will find this helps immensely while you are cammed in close. When you want your normal eyes back again, simply close the window, and your view will revert to normal.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

Another trick, a very simple one, is building in larger scale. When finished, scale the entire thing down to the right size.

[Porky Gorky]

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

Unfortunely he has chosen just to have a few around.

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BOOO!

He's so selfish!

Maybe if he spent less time helping people on the forum and spent more time perfecting human cloning & shrinking we could really get this project off the ground. :smileyhappy:

[Chosen Few]

Heh, thanks for the kind words.

I have to say I'm not sure if the multiplicity thing would be good or bad.  I'd certainly get a lot more done.  However, I shudder to think what would happen if any two of me were to find something to argue with each other about.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Chosen Few wrote:

However, I shudder to think what would happen if any two of me were to find something to argue with each other about.

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We would get some very long forum threads I think, probably some helpful ones though.

[Coby Foden]

How about using:

Ctrl-0 => zoom in
Ctrl-9 => reset zoom to normal
Ctrl-8 => zoom out

When you press Ctrl-0 few times and then Alt cam closer, you can get really big close view of the tiny items.

[Chosen Few]

Those controls work, but if you're going to use them, it's worth being aware of what they actually do.  They change the focal length of the camera.  Zooming in makes the view more orthagraphic, and zoming out makes it more fisheyed.   The camera itself stays stationary during these adjustments, rather than physically moving closer to, or further from, the object.  It's analogous to what happens if you adjust a zoom lens on a RL camera, but far more extreme.

Because of this, controlling the actual rotation, pan, and dolly positon of the camera can become clumsy.  If you're zoomed way in, any tiny movement of the camera can have a huge effect on the field of view.  Conversely, if you're zoomed way out, it takes a ton of camera movement in order to make small changes to the filed of view.  Fluid, fine control is not impossible, but it is relatively difficult.

[Tari Landar]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

Another trick, a very simple one, is building in larger scale. When finished, scale the entire thing down to the right size.

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What often sounds simple...isn't usually for someone who lacks any depth perception whatsoever

I'm legally blind, and dealing with things being right in position perfectly, is not my strongest thing. In fact, sometimes I am downright terrible at it. This is where scaling down is a pain in the butt. Because sometimes when I scale things down, like a ring I was working on earlier for example, the prims aren't quite aligned the same way they were when it was big. Then I have to go in and move every single one, which is ok and I expect time consuming things,b ut I can save myself a few steps(few hundred in some cases, lol) if I never have to scale down and reposition a million times.

This is the method I've been using-the scaling, but my hubby has to constantly check my work. Which much as I love him, and love that he's willing, this doesn't always make me feel so good when I've been working for days or weeks just to realize I'm an idiot and it's not even aligned properly, lol. I know, it's my own personal issue, but, yeah, it happens. It frustrates me too, sometimes. He doesn't make me feel that way, I make me feel that way, but it's still annoying. Embarassing when I do miss something and a customer has to tell me-which has happened more than once(and it's why he now checks everything, lol). I don't mind making mistakes, I do mind making the same ones over and over and not realizing it.

That's why i liked being able to cam in super close, lol. I didn't get the whole "dangit I'm a moron" feeling, especially when *I* find the problem, and not someone else.

I know, longer explanation than needed and some think it's tupid, I don't mind.

Wish they'd leave well enough alone with some things though, lol.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Tari Landar wrote:

Because sometimes when I scale things down, like a ring I was working on earlier for example, the prims aren't quite aligned the same way they were when it was big.

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Yes depending on the item you're working on, that can happen, it quite often does actually. In some cases it works really well though.

Another advice that won't help out in most cases, or better phrased, not for most people, is build in mesh instead. you can build as small or big as you want without ever having to worry about allignment.