So When Is LL gonna Start Making People HAve Payment Info Used To Sell On The MP??

[Eileen Fellstein]

My thought is everyone here should have to verify who they are on sign-up, period. Not just for this issue but for multitudes of issues all coming back to the same point of not having a point of accountablity for every avatar here. People are so afraid of others leaving if you do that, but other 'game' platforms do not have a problem with it. They even charge a susbsciption fee to everyone and their customer base is in the millions.

I realize people have alts especially to help in businesses. What with the current lack of a real privacy mode that you can actually work in, you'd never get a thing done after  fashion just from answering all the 'help me with your product I bought' IM's. They would just need to alow a liberal amount of alts per account is all.

To me the problem is in the wording of 'pay ment info'. Something like 'Verified user' would be more appropriate. No actual payment needs to ever have taken place if that is what LL decides but to me, it really needs to go a lot further than having someone bounce what could literally be anyone's ID number off a 3rd party database that flags them as 'Yup, this is an adult'.

[Pussycat Catnap]

Theyt don't use that database anymore. Haven't for a while now.

Getting all 'real ID only' is a bit severe... a bit invasive too... SL is still hosted in the free world. Facebook and Google may want to go all fascist on us and destroy a thousand years of individual rights (dating to the founding of Common Law in 1066, and a bloody struggle to get every single right you have along the way from there to here), but that's definately an anti-American stance to take.

 

[Betty Briand]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Theyt don't use that database anymore. Haven't for a while now.

Getting all 'real ID only' is a bit severe... a bit invasive too... SL is still hosted in the free world. Facebook and Google may want to go all fascist on us and destroy a thousand years of individual rights (dating to the founding of Common Law in 1066, and a bloody struggle to get every single right you have along the way from there to here), but that's definately an anti-American stance to take.

 

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That makes no sense.

And what or where is the free world?

[Ceka Cianci]

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Eileen Fellstein wrote:

My thought is everyone here should have to verify who they are on sign-up, period. Not just for this issue but for multitudes of issues all coming back to the same point of not having a point of accountablity for every avatar here. People are so afraid of others leaving if you do that, but other 'game' platforms do not have a problem with it. They even charge a susbsciption fee to everyone and their customer base is in the millions.

I realize people have alts especially to help in businesses. What with the current lack of a real privacy mode that you can actually work in, you'd never get a thing done after  fashion just from answering all the 'help me with your product I bought' IM's. They would just need to alow a liberal amount of alts per account is all.

To me the problem is in the wording of 'pay ment info'. Something like 'Verified user' would be more appropriate. No actual payment needs to ever have taken place if that is what LL decides but to me, it really needs to go a lot further than having someone bounce what could literally be anyone's ID number off a 3rd party database that flags them as 'Yup, this is an adult'.

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you can bet those that charge a subscription fee are riddled with hacks and stolen accounts constantly..

let alone the constant phishing that goes on..take the most popular one for instance..WoW,,so many stolen accounts that they had to create an external additional password system because it had gotten so bad..and even those get stolen and the account holder locked out by their own external log in security..

there are tons of gold farmers running around on other peoples accounts that are stolen.. i've had friends accounts that were on my friends list hacked tons of times and those  accounts hit me up like it was my friends because i was on their friends list..then they would throw out a site for me to go and buy gold..

i would Report the account right away..i don't have enough fingers for as many times as someone on my friends list was phishing me because of someone getting their account..they had even gotten mine back when i was trying out the lich king expansion..

i had went to an add-on site and that's all it took..a keylogger..a 4 year old account turned to crap in a matter of a few hours..

going subscribe won't make things better..it would make things worse on a bigger scale..because it would be more than content theft going on..SL deals with real money..

imagine someone just buying up tons of lindens on a stolen account ..because everyone having PIOF or even worse PIU would now have everyone as a target..because every account would hold a way to buying lindens or cashing them out..

imagine your account being put on suspension because someone had gained access and tried to cash out too many lindens on it..

SL is a heck of a lot less secure than WoW is that's for sure..

LL can put any system up that they want to try and make people accountable.. the ones that are good at getting around things will get around them just like they do with the worlds biggest populated subscription game..and they will still stay unaccountable and hidden leaving us robbed or to blame for who knows what..

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

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Eileen Fellstein wrote:

My thought is everyone here should have to verify who they are on sign-up, period. Not just for this issue but for multitudes of issues all coming back to the same point of not having a point of accountablity for every avatar here. People are so afraid of others leaving if you do that, but other 'game' platforms do not have a problem with it. They even charge a susbsciption fee to everyone and their customer base is in the millions.

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you can bet those that charge a subscription fee are riddled with hacks and stolen accounts constantly..

 

LL can put any system up that they want to try and make people accountable.. the ones that are good at getting around things will get around them just like they do with the worlds biggest populated subscription game..and they will still stay unaccountable and hidden leaving us robbed or to blame for who knows what..

 

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These people don't actually want security and 'accountability' - they want to destroy the fundamental right of privacy found in the free world, a right we've spent a thousand years fighting to obtain and preserve as the core underpinning of every other right we have, in order to gain a little short term profit for the CEO class.

The whole angle of 'accountability' is just smoke and mirrors.

But I like how you brought up WoW - because when WoW tried to do this, its users fought back by putting out some very sensative info on WoW's employees and their families... Those corporate overlords showed their true colors in objecting to having done to them exactly what they were planning to do to their customers, and backed off.

 

 

[161488303349]

u right about how ppl reflect on past ways. we all do that and is a good thing and try not put ourselfs into a hard place again so that we end up in a chit fight. is ego that mostly i think. ego can be a good thing sometimes tho. like there probly not be any rock n roll if not. can be quite a damager tho if just let it go loose

as ppl age they change and explore new ways, metallica the same, so the direction change as well for them

the diff with linkin park was an age gap thing i think, like u say already. like lp lots younger. lp really look at how their fans using the interwebz and why they doing in the way they do. is why lp made their widget so u could put on ur fan page and personal blog. linking to lp was a way for fans to be included.  some the record companies not get it at all. for a time, universal music specially, was forcing utube to block everything even from linking. was quite dumb that

linkin park also help pioneer vids on the interwebz that show them doing stuff other than just official buy me releases. was quite cool bc when they share their lives then it bring ppl into the lp family. like u our friend and we are mates. so that was cool. other ppl done that way as well but lp was probly the first big name band to reach that level of conciousness on the interwebz

otep was other band that was do that kinda thing as well at the time. i think they was one of the first to make a invite us to ur town thingy on their myspace. like u could frend them and vote on it and they would come ur home town. was way cool that. like they not say buy our concert tickets like commercial ppl do. just say if u want us to come we will. 1000s and 1000s ppl go on there and say pls come

most bands not want ppl to rip their stuff. is just some bands try be friends with u. bc friends and mates not rip each other off and not smash u. is more better that way. is pity that some bands and some record companies and some spose be fans not want to be friends and just treat everone else as commodity. is why we always end up with regulations and laws in the end. maybe one day will change. probly only tho when ppl change 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eileen Fellstein]

Ooo! ok, /me needs to clarify. I was not suggesting realID or anything like it as it related to giving up your personal privacy to the masses of SL. I actually lost friends over that exact point here during the redzone fiasco and would fight on my front porch with a garden tool if it will help ensure our anonymity as we see fit to the general pupulation.

What I mean is Linden Labs should know it. That way if I drop 3 tons of styrofoam on your sim from some jacked up alt, they just pull the plug on me and all my avis are banned for x amount of time.

And yea, some baddies will get around anything. Aways the case but it works pretty well. I do not use realID in wow ever so if someone is being a butt pain, I just go to a different toon a while leaving them with no trail of peanuts.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Eileen Fellstein wrote:

Ooo! ok, /me needs to clarify. I was not suggesting realID or anything like it as it related to giving up your personal privacy to the masses of SL. I actually lost friends over that exact point here during the redzone fiasco and would fight on my front porch with a garden tool if it will help ensure our anonymity as we see fit to the general pupulation.

What I mean is Linden Labs should know it. That way if I drop 3 tons of styrofoam on your sim from some jacked up alt, they just pull the plug on me and all my avis are banned for x amount of time.

And yea, some baddies will get around anything. Aways the case but it works pretty well. I do not use realID in wow ever so if someone is being a butt pain, I just go to a different toon a while leaving them with no trail of peanuts.

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i understand you were talking about only LL knowing a users information on a subscription system..

i was basically saying second life is not a safe enough environment to do that..i lost people that i thought were my good friends that chose the redzone side when all that was going on..i was in the GZ group and in SLU and in here duking it out from the get go with RZ fan boyz and the creator and whoever else decided to show up..so were a lot of others..it still took forever and a day to get settled even proving it was against the TOS..

being involved in that only showed me just how easy it would be for people to be a target..it used to eat at me thinking of all those new people coming to SL not aware of the scans from quickware and RZ and being on LL viewers where everything is turned on by default in the media settings of the viewer..

that was an out in the open scam that took forever for LL to resolve even when there was tons of evidence that it was breaking the current TOS..

they didn't change anything but a little place in the CS..

then you have these super hero groups that are still at this time building databases on users with tons of information to where they have gotten so bold as to make phone calls or even show up at someones door..they have a global banning system as well...one that a user has to have them come out and install on your land..because they don't want anyone seeing how it's made..

this is on the current system we are under in second life..those holes would not be going away on a full subscription..

RZ type systems were never stopped..the only way to stop them is by users knowing they are there..the way the GZ hud works for that is..someone finds the offensive scanner and then it gets added to the hud..if they make changes to the scanner system..the GZ hud would have to be updated..and that is all by user awareness..

LL never fixed the media problem..they just fixed the CS to make it easier for some to read  more of what it covers..

so the same risks are still there that were here when RZ and quickware were around..

that's just a couple of holes that will be taken advantage of if they were to go full subscription..

do i think people should be honest with LL when they open an account here? yes i think they should..

do i think they should make a system where it would try to make people honest..i think thats when you put your honest users at more risk..

Zboy was on an honest account and so are those super heroes gathering information and stacking it on over 200,000 users last we heard..sure zboy was stopped..but he still has a huge database that is floating around out there..

and those super heroes have a database that just gets bigger every day..

going full subscription..you will have new users coming in here that do not know how insecure the place really is or that links can take you outside of the platform to places that can throw things onto a users system..like loggers and other types of malware..

making it harder to get in with people mostly being honest and having to use payment information to buy anything in here?

that's gonna be like putting a wolf right in the middle of a sheep's pasture while the sheep herder is out to lunch..it's gonna be easy free pickin's on any or as many targets that they see..

older people on the grid are a lot wiser than the fresh people coming here..

making it full subscription..the new user numbers would drop anyways because it would be subscription only..then add the wolves in waiting that are sizing them up as their next meal..

the damage to someone would be far worse than it would be to someone in WoW..because customer service here is as slow as a snail on the rocks..they can get all your stuff back from a WoW hack..they won't be able to get your stuff back from an SL hack..

it's a play at your own risk world..and that wouldn't change if it went full subscription..it would just make the wolves more dangerous and sheep more juicy than they were when it was not full script..

to be honest..i don't think LL is gonna change ..i think they are going to make adjustments here and there with things for people to do..but i think they are just gonna ride it out and see just how far this train goes before it hits the brakes..

a lot of issues they don't see as their problem..it's pawned off on the users..where blizz see's they have a problem and they try to phase it out..

look at WoW right now..anything good is in points rather than gold..can't sell honor points or things that get you the valuable stuff..gold lost it's value..that's why things look more expensive..gold is easier to get and reputation and points are harder to get..

they do that because of the black gold market..they can do that in that system..

Blizz figured their system to slow down that stuff because they know they could never stop it..

that's not happening here..because the system is a different system when it comes to currency..

in my opinion security and customer support is something LL should have pounded to the grind stone years ago..now they are kind of between a rock and a hard place with it..

maybe this new CEO has some ideas that won't cut LL's throat or ours..that would be great..otherwise..i don't see anything changing really...

the difference between blizz and LL..Blizz see's a problem that hurts their users and they say..ok time to get to work on it..

LL..Where is the duct tape? oh we're out of duct tape? we'll just get some the next time we go to town..who took the last of the coffee!!!\o/

LOL

[Eileen Fellstein]

I understand and agree with most of what you're saying Ceka. Except the 'superhero' handle you so generously hang on those. lol. I'd tend to go with something like 'Epic Failure' myself

don't get me started lol.

Unfortunately, what I see, even being a firestorm fan is in order to have real security or anything close to it, we'll have to arrive at a point where it's one platform, one veiwer for all. At this point that probably is not likely to happen short of a full sequil and starting over with a blank grid.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Eileen Fellstein wrote:

I understand and agree with most of what you're saying Ceka. Except the 'superhero' handle you so generously hang on those. lol. I'd tend to go with something like 'Epic Failure' myself

don't get me started lol.

Unfortunately, what I see, even being a firestorm fan is in order to have real security or anything close to it, we'll have to arrive at a point where it's one platform, one veiwer for all. At this point that probably is not likely to happen short of a full sequil and starting over with a blank grid.

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lol i stand corrected on the use of the word Hero hehehehehe'

and ya thats another thing..LL hasn't even put the media or music filters in for their own viewer..

we need something for media on a prim..but they could still add those other filters until they get that figured out..

i just never understood why they never added more protection when it is right there infront of them..

ya know?

it just doesn't make sense to me..well i take that back..they just don't want people filtering the direction their platform is going havign all this web based stuff now..

they probably never will put a filter in for media on a prim..=(

[Ceka Cianci]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

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Eileen Fellstein wrote:

My thought is everyone here should have to verify who they are on sign-up, period. Not just for this issue but for multitudes of issues all coming back to the same point of not having a point of accountablity for every avatar here. People are so afraid of others leaving if you do that, but other 'game' platforms do not have a problem with it. They even charge a susbsciption fee to everyone and their customer base is in the millions.

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you can bet those that charge a subscription fee are riddled with hacks and stolen accounts constantly..

 

LL can put any system up that they want to try and make people accountable.. the ones that are good at getting around things will get around them just like they do with the worlds biggest populated subscription game..and they will still stay unaccountable and hidden leaving us robbed or to blame for who knows what..

 

---

These people don't actually want security and 'accountability' - they want to destroy the fundamental right of privacy found in the free world, a right we've spent a thousand years fighting to obtain and preserve as the core underpinning of every other right we have, in order to gain a little short term profit for the CEO class.

The whole angle of 'accountability' is just smoke and mirrors.

But I like how you brought up WoW - because when WoW tried to do this, its users fought back by putting out some very sensative info on WoW's employees and their families... Those corporate overlords showed their true colors in objecting to having done to them exactly what they were planning to do to their customers, and backed off.

 

 

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to some i think getting all kinds of doors locked and having all kinds of security sounds safe and sounds like the best way to go to them at the time..but a lot don't understand what they give up when they do that..

then i think we also have those that know exactly what they are asking and what things would do as far as impact and want that impact to happen..

then you have those that also know what would  be given up..and try to show those that think it all sounds good.. just what they would be giving up in the bigger picture.. hehehehe

it's at just about every turn it seems with a wide range of content..from types of RP that should be allowed on the grid to as wide as who should be allowed on the grid..

it's a none stop battle against people trying to squash what others decide to do with their own second lives..or what some decide is fair that others don't..

it's crazy at times..

one persons idea of fair could be another persons invasion..and it is most times..these forums get loaded with those topics hehehehe

 

that blizz thing..

oh ya i totally remember that..that was after the thread went up where people were not only closing their subscriptions..but they were asking to have their accounts deleted permanently because they were done with it..it was the last straw with quite a few users..

but ya i had forgotten about them doing that to those blizz guys..

[Rene Erlanger]

Wow...I've been away since Mar 2011.....seems this Redzone saga is still running (or equvilants)

[Ceka Cianci]

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Rene Erlanger wrote:

Wow...I've been away since Mar 2011.....seems this Redzone saga is still running (or equvilants)

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Not really..it just pops up from time to time in conversations hehehe