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So When Is LL gonna Start Making People HAve Payment Info Used To Sell On The MP??

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

  You are penalizing them for something that a few bad apples do.

 

No under LL's crazy rules, innocent people could be penalized for simply shopping, and we need to have bazillions of items memerized in our minds, along with knowing the thousands and thousands of full perm items.  That's impossible.

@ Ceka, of course I'm for SOPA.  Maybe not in it's current form, but some 'form' of SOPA is sanity.  The copyright belongs to the artist. 

Also, merchants are responsible for getting their own copyrights.  It is no one else's problems if there is no copyright holder in the first place.  Merchants should start putting dates right on the photoshopped picture just when the item is ready for launch; this item created by so-and-so, dated created, not full perm.  Then a merchant would have some ammunition.  Otherwise, I don't see where the proof of who made what first even exists?

As for Paypal, it offers up to 45 days to file a fradulent claim.  I do not think banks or credit cards offer that.  I'll have to call our credit card and ask how many days I have to file against something like this when I would have done nothing at all.

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Mayalily wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

  You are penalizing them for something that a few bad apples do.

 

 

@ Ceka, of course I'm for SOPA.  Maybe not in it's current form, but some 'form' of SOPA is sanity.  The copyright belongs to the artist. 

 

As for Paypal,

no it doesn't..it belongs to the owner..go read up on SOPA it's an owners law not a creators law..

As for pay pal..the majority of SL users cannot use pay pal..good bye grid i guess..

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

  You are penalizing them for something that a few bad apples do.

 

 

@ Ceka, of course I'm for SOPA.  Maybe not in it's current form, but some 'form' of SOPA is sanity.  The copyright belongs to the artist. 

 

As for Paypal,

no it doesn't..it belongs to the owner..go read up on SOPA it's an owners law not a creators law..

As for pay pal..the majority of SL users cannot use pay pal..good bye grid i guess..

It protects the copyright holder.  I do not see a difference as I as an artist can get my own copyrights, and so can those here. However, since there are no actual copyrights on SL, I don't see how anyone can prove when the item was even first made...?  << This point needs to be addressed. 

And yes I will again for the umpteenth time agree that ALL residents should be verified and provide some form of proof of when their creation was created; otherwise, there is no copyright in the first place.  You can't have it both ways, Ceka.  You want those that hold copyrights not to have them, and those that do not hold copyrights to somehow magically have them. 

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Mayalily wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

  You are penalizing them for something that a few bad apples do.

 

 

@ Ceka, of course I'm for SOPA.  Maybe not in it's current form, but some 'form' of SOPA is sanity.  The copyright belongs to the artist. 

 

As for Paypal,

no it doesn't..it belongs to the owner..go read up on SOPA it's an owners law not a creators law..

As for pay pal..the majority of SL users cannot use pay pal..good bye grid i guess..

It protects the copyright holder.  I do not see a difference as I as an artist can get my own copyrights, and so can those here. However, since there are no actual copyrights on SL, I don't see how anyone can prove when the item was even first made...?  << This point needs to be addressed. 

And yes I will again for the umpteenth time agree that ALL residents should be verified and provide some form of proof of when their creation was created; otherwise, there is no copyright in the first place.  You can't have it both ways,
Ceka.  You want those that hold copyrights not to have them, and those that do not hold copyrights to somehow magically have them. 


ok play time is over..

if there were not copy writes then how could anyone file a DMCA and have content taken down?

you create a digital file when it is on your computer.. you upload your texture and it is recorded..that user name is tied to your RL name..

copy - write exists the second the creation is created..having something under copy-write protection provides additional protection..it doesn't all of a sudden become copy written because you went and registered it..

so ya it does get copy -written when it is created in here..have you even looked into this at all?

as far as SOPA..seriously..look at who the big copy-write holders are that are backing this law and you will find why it is not a good thing..

copy-write holder does not equal artist in the big world..ever hear the term Sell out?

see copy writes can be sold or even taken away or sometimes contracted for someone else that is the owner but hires a creator..this may be where you think i am wanting my cake and eating it to..

see people sell their stuff and other people own them..like all those record labels out there with the same record label on all those different artists songs..the record label owns the copy writes not the singer or creator..

just ask prince how long it took him to get out of their grip..and he had all kinds of freedoms with them..

then go ask linkin park how they became who they are grip free..they did it without them through the internet and no big corp sucking up their creations..and they did it faster..

that fairy you have in your avatar..better hope you own it or have permission to use it or someone could have you in the court of law if SOPA passes..and not a civil court either..

any you tube links that have the slightest music DNA in them playing in the background that you link to anyone..puts you at risk of committing piracy as well as you tube if the up loader did not get permission from the owner of the writes to it..even if the song was playing on their tv in the other room..

 

as far as that bolded part..you haven't heard a word i have said..i'm a content creator..also a content owner..

i've been in this fight a long long time..long before SL..and telling the difference is an important part of being able to fight it well..knowing the big picture and what will result from things is a huge part of it..just looking at the paint job will get you hurting in a bad way..

you accuse me of being this whole wanting my cake and eating it too thing when you don't even understand a word i have even said lol

honestly..you have no idea what you are talking about? just listen to the things you are saying..forget about some win here and take it serious..because i'm not here for a win in some forum thread or to make myself look like i know what i am talking about..i do know what i am talking about..

want a real life shot..wait till some corporation calls you up one day because they infected your land with some bullcrap pollen that floated in on the wind and now tells you because they own this patent on that pollen gene what you have to do with your own land from here on out..

you want freedoms and channels taken away from the small creators so they land in the hands of corporations that block the channels that artists have been using to make it without some corporation owning their creations..that's SOPA...that's the law you are backing ..and you are dancing the same dance here in second life..

you want to go in nuking everything without thinking it through..that's fine..just be very careful of what you wish for..because you may just end up getting more restriction than you asked for..not may but will..

you have no idea what SOPA is and that is clear..because you can't tell he difference between owner and artist..

i can respect people having their opinions..

but if you go backing up something like SOPA  just because you think the paint job looks really nice..well we really have nothing else to say to each other from here on out..not unless we end up in a SOPA thread

i can't deal with someone that feels it's ok to cut off the underdogs because the big dogs feel safer to them..

if you misunderstand this post then so be it..i've wasted enough of my time on this..

 

 

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

  You are penalizing them for something that a few bad apples do.

 

 

@ Ceka, of course I'm for SOPA.  Maybe not in it's current form, but some 'form' of SOPA is sanity.  The copyright belongs to the artist. 

 

As for Paypal,

no it doesn't..it belongs to the owner..go read up on SOPA it's an owners law not a creators law..

As for pay pal..the majority of SL users cannot use pay pal..good bye grid i guess..

It protects the copyright holder.  I do not see a difference as I as an artist can get my own copyrights, and so can those here. However, since there are no actual copyrights on SL, I don't see how anyone can prove when the item was even first made...?  << This point needs to be addressed. 

And yes I will again for the umpteenth time agree that ALL residents should be verified and provide some form of proof of when their creation was created; otherwise, there is no copyright in the first place.  You can't have it both ways,
Ceka.  You want those that hold copyrights not to have them, and those that do not hold copyrights to somehow magically have them. 


ok play time is over..

if there were not copy writes then how could anyone file a DMCA and have content taken down?

you create a digital file when it is on your computer.. you upload your texture and it is recorded..that user name is tied to your RL name..

copy - write exists the second the creation is created..having something under copy-write protection provides additional protection..it doesn't all of a sudden become copy written because you went and registered it..

so ya it does get copy -written when it is created in here..have you even looked into this at all?

as far as SOPA..seriously..look at who the big copy-write holders are that are backing this law and you will find why it is not a good thing..

copy-write holder does not equal artist in the big world..ever hear the term Sell out?

see copy writes can be sold or even taken away or sometimes contracted for someone else that is the owner but hires a creator..this may be where you think i am wanting my cake and eating it to..

see people sell their stuff and other people own them..like all those record labels out there with the same record label on all those different artists songs..the record label owns the copy writes not the singer or creator..

just ask prince how long it took him to get out of their grip..and he had all kinds of freedoms with them..

then go ask linkin park how they became who they are grip free..they did it without them through the internet and no big corp sucking up their creations..and they did it faster..

that fairy you have in your avatar..better hope you own it or have permission to use it or someone could have you in the court of law if SOPA passes..and not a civil court either..

any you tube links that have the slightest music DNA in them playing in the background that you link to anyone..puts you at risk of committing piracy as well as you tube if the up loader did not get permission from the owner of the writes to it..even if the song was playing on their tv in the other room..

 

as far as that bolded part..you haven't heard a word i have said..i'm a content creator..also a content owner..

i've been in this fight a long long time..long before SL..and telling the difference is an important part of being able to fight it well..knowing the big picture and what will result from things is a huge part of it..just looking at the paint job will get you hurting in a bad way..

you accuse me of being this whole wanting my cake and eating it too thing when you don't even understand a word i have even said lol

honestly..you have no idea what you are talking about? just listen to the things you are saying..forget about some win here and take it serious..because i'm not here for a win in some forum thread or to make myself look like i know what i am talking about..i do know what i am talking about..

want a real life shot..wait till some corporation calls you up one day because they infected your land with some bullcrap pollen that floated in on the wind and now tells you because they own this patent on that pollen gene what you have to do with your own land from here on out..

 

 

 

I know what a copyright holder is and isn't. Artist's sign away their publishing rights or they don't or they keep part royalities (a portion).  My agreeing with SOPA has nothing to do with simply music, and on music piracy you and I Ceka will always, always disagree period.  You think music is great.  I say music is crap now.  On that we will never see eye to eye on.  And, I need to clarify I am for a type of SOPA, just not SOPA in it's current form.  I do believe, however, some kind of "SOPA" will pass eventually, but perhaps not in it's current form.  Let's drop that for now and get back on topic. 

Now, your point about copyright is confusing.  Your point here -- username is tied to real name.  How can that be when we are discussing whether all residents should be verified or not with payment info? 

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Reading some of the comments here and and thinking about comments I have read in other threads, some people make it sound like they are finding copybotted goods left and right every time they shop the Market Place or In World.  If the copybotted goods are that pervasive on the Market Place, I'd think that the Creators should have no real problem locating that stolen merchandise themselves and then file the DCMA. 

It sucks that they should have to spend time doing this.  Not saying it doesn't.  But the way that some of you talk, you make it sound like half the goods for sale in SL are stolen.  Seriously.

I am not saying it is not a problem, but I get the feeling some of you are seeing goblins every time you turn a corner in SL.

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@ Mayalilly and other SOPA supporters.

Do you realise that the staunchest supporters of SOPA also owned some of the major websites that provided not only downloads to torrent type software but even included links to properties it would be illegal to download!

This fact alone should tell you what SOPA is really all about.

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Mayalily wrote:


 

I know what a copyright holder is and isn't. Artist's sign away their publishing rights or they don't or they keep part royalities (a portion).  My agreeing with SOPA has nothing to do with simply music, and on music piracy you and I Ceka will always, always disagree period.  You think music is great.  I say music is crap now.  On that we will never see eye to eye on.  And, I need to clarify I am for a type of SOPA, just not SOPA in it's current form.  I do believe, however, some kind of "SOPA" will pass eventually, but perhaps not in it's current form.  Let's drop that for now and get back on topic. 

Now, your point about copyright is confusing.  Your point here -- username is tied to real name.  How can that be when we are discussing whether all residents should be verified or not with payment info? 

music was just an example of the many types of content..i just used one type as an example..i wasn't about to go into the huge list hehehe

how we feel about music is irrelevant to all that...you have no idea of my range in taste of music..it's pretty wide hehehe

 

anyways..my point about copy writing something..you create something on your computer it is born and copy written right then and there..if you upload it to the net it is dated with an exact time again..in this world it will be showing an upload born date and exact time as well..

remember that letter you wanted to mail to yourself? there it is..your user name shows up as the creator and owner of that content with a date and time..payment info or no payment info it is tied to me..if i made it in world it is copy written and tied to the real world me also..payment info or no payment info..all with a date and time down to the very second it was created..

at this moment it does not exist anywhere else in the world but in my possession and also on the net in my inventory under my user name and on my computer where the original sits dated and with a time it was sealed..

i've just dated my content with even more evidence that it is mine..no date will show up earlier than mine  and the file sitting in a zip will be showing an even earlier date..i can upload it to my website server as well giving it another date..the more times i do this in different places..the more i build evidence to ensure the content was copy written by me originally..

the only thing that could stop me proving it was mine is if someone showed up with the exact same thing as mine and with an earlier creation date or showing proof of ownership of the copy writes..someone registering my copy written content does not give them rights over my content unless they can somehow show i sold my rights away to them..

you were saying there are no copy writes in second life..i'm just showing that yes there are..and that you don't need payment info on file to have them..

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

@ Mayalilly and other SOPA supporters.

Do you realise that the staunchest supporters of SOPA also owned some of the major websites that provided not only downloads to torrent type software but even included links to properties it would be illegal to download!

This fact alone should tell you what SOPA is really all about.

one thing you will notice in this is that you will never hear Napsters name come up..because they knew Napster was a great idea..they benefitted from it and still do today...

they just wanted control over those things..and they got it..

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

@ Mayalilly and other SOPA supporters.

Do you realise that the staunchest supporters of SOPA also owned some of the major websites that provided not only downloads to torrent type software but even included links to properties it would be illegal to download!

This fact alone should tell you what SOPA is really all about.

one thing you will notice in this is that you will never hear Napsters name come up..because they knew Napster was a great idea..they benefitted from it and still do today...

they just wanted control over those things..and they got it..

I worked as a label rep for 15 years.  Was actually the most fun job I ever had.  I worked my butt off but still had a blast doing it.  And I will be first in line to say that the business model of the Major Labels sucked.  There was so much greed and stupidity at the top it was nuts and I can point to more problems than the average person because I was in the middle of it.  When you think about it, when the soundtrack for a movie cost more than the DVD of the movie, something is askew!  Many, many other things.  One hit wonders, albums with only one song worth listening to, the mistreatment of musicians by the Labels, etc, etc.

But there is another side to this that many people don't realize the severity of what was going on with the illegal downloads.  In 2000, I was responsible for accounts with about  $5 Million in sales annually.  By 2005 that figure for the same group of stores had dropped to around 1.2 Million.  While I know that there were also other factors involved, based on the habits I knew of friends and others,  people just went hog wild downloading content.

I can't drum up the documentation now, but there were Universities that saw their total bandwidth use drop in excess of 25% when they blocked access to file sharing sites.  That is a huge number.

During the course of those five years I watched a lot of small distributors fold.  Finally, in 2005, while my company was still some how miraculously still solvent, the bank walked in and pulled their line of credit, effectively closing it, doing it before they took a loss.

Bottom line to me is that I would not have so much minded losing my job to a new business model, that is a move to online music sales.  It still would have hurt, but such is life.  But I didn't lose my job to that.  It was stolen from me by thieves.  While we can point a lot of fingers at the Music Labels, it by no means justifies the thievery that went on by people who thought they should get it all for free.

On a final note, I don't like the heavy handedness today of the RIAA.  I am against it too.  But my perspective on why they are that heavy handed is a little different.

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

@ Mayalilly and other SOPA supporters.

Do you realise that the staunchest supporters of SOPA also owned some of the major websites that provided not only downloads to torrent type software but even included links to properties it would be illegal to download!

This fact alone should tell you what SOPA is really all about.

one thing you will notice in this is that you will never hear Napsters name come up..because they knew Napster was a great idea..they benefitted from it and still do today...

they just wanted control over those things..and they got it..

I worked as a label rep for 15 years.  Was actually the most fun job I ever had.  I worked my butt off but still had a blast doing it.  And I will be first in line to say that the business model of the Major Labels sucked.  There was so much greed and stupidity at the top it was nuts and I can point to more problems than the average person because I was in the middle of it.  When you think about it, when the soundtrack for a movie cost more than the DVD of the movie, something is askew!  Many, many other things.  One hit wonders, albums with only one song worth listening to, the mistreatment of musicians by the Labels, etc, etc.

But there is another side to this that many people don't realize the severity of what was going on with the illegal downloads.  In 2000, I was responsible for accounts with about  $5 Million in sales annually.  By 2005 that figure for the same group of stores had dropped to around 1.2 Million.  While I know that there were also other factors involved, based on the habits I knew of friends and others,  people just went hog wild downloading content.

I can't drum up the documentation now, but there were Universities that saw their total bandwidth use drop in excess of 25% when they blocked access to file sharing sites.  That is a huge number.

During the course of those five years I watched a lot of small distributors fold.  Finally, in 2005, while my company was still some how miraculously still solvent, the bank walked in and pulled their line of credit, effectively closing it, doing it before they took a loss.

Bottom line to me is that I would not have so much minded losing my job to a new business model, that is a move to online music sales.  It still would have hurt, but such is life.  But I didn't lose my job to that.  It was stolen from me by thieves.  While we can point a lot of fingers at the Music Labels, it by no means justifies the thievery that went on by people who thought they should get it all for free.

On a final note, I don't like the heavy handedness today of the RIAA.  I am against it too.  But my perspective on why they are that heavy handed is a little different.

 

you are probably gonna hate me now  =(


i was in the chat rooms in Napster back then when there was nothing on Napster..a lot of the complaint was the cost of what companies were charging for music on some silly piece of plastic called a CD...$20.00 and it wasn't even new music..it was music pulled from albums put to CD..

if they would have left well enough alone they would have seen a boost in sales...people were just testing music mostly at first to hear what was what and if it was worth the 20.00 to dish out for something that could scratch  from being dropped and become useless....

it probably wouldn't have been so bad if Lars and big head from Metallica and Dre would not have jumped in to boost against what was going on..then Garth brooks and his silly stunt with trade in shops wanting sales from those..it just seemed to really get flooded after those guys jumped in..especially Metallica..Dre really came later after he saw the attention Met was getting..

Metallica and Dre and brooks DL's went through the roof because they warned people they better not  DL them..that just filled the place with those DL's till it went down..it gave people a target  to go after that they could see..

i know you saw nothing but thieves in Napster..but there was a movement going on ..and all those bands did was help boost it when they laid out threats..

when we seen artists jumping on the side of Napster..real good artists like Alanis Morissette..that only boosted the feeling even more..Linkin Park was a real big boost as they were giving their music away back then and backing up what was going on..

i paid for the music that i was downloading..i had them on better quality already sitting in my house on LP's and cassettes and even CD's..

i just got them for my mp3 player so i didn't have to carry around a bunch of CD's or cassettes..

i still have the original exe for Napster and the last one when it was still live..

I'm sorry you lost a really good job because of what happened back then..But i can't be sorry i was involved in that..

it opened the flood gates for people that wanted their stuff downloaded rather than having to go to a label..

2000 to 2005 i can't help but remember being the boy band years or really commercial filled content because artists were seeing they could do it on their own..that or getting picked up from labels because they were being heard when a label would have just tossed them to the side any other time..

we had power in choice of who was gonna make it in music and the power left a lot of those places that used to hold them back..

now the big threat is here to try and close that door again and there is gonna be another movement..

i'm not trying to glorify the ones that were there just because there was opportunity to steal free music..but without their numbers we wouldn't be hearing half the bands we are today..that whole thing changed the music industry and i can't help but be glad that happened..

but i am really sorry that you got hurt by all that..and i can understand the anger and resentment you feel..i feel bad about that part i honestly do..and i hope you don't hate on me because i was there on the other side..

i just want you to know we were not all there stealing..there was a passion behind that whole thing as well..it may not have been the creators intention  of it or it may have been i don't know..but it ended up that way..

i just know what we were going on about in chat and in IM's and when we would see someone from the other side make a threat and then see numbers jump..it just felt like something that was gonna either get us all in trouble or make a difference..

i guess because i talked about owning the music i was downloading and wasn't passing mine around that they didn't bother with me..you could make copies of music you owned then as long as you didn't share it..but they did go after others in there..i didn't hear if anything happened to them or not but i know our chat was monitored ..

i was there until it went offline..

then later other programs came out where you could pay for the music and that's what i did..it was better quality and you didn't end up with half songs..or those silly guys labeling something as a song and it really be them yelling stuff like "i am watching gay porn!!" hehehe

well i hope you don't hate me after reading this..but i could understand if you did..it really sounded like a nice job and again i'm sorry  about  what happen to you.. =(

 

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

@ Mayalilly and other SOPA supporters.

Do you realise that the staunchest supporters of SOPA also owned some of the major websites that provided not only downloads to torrent type software but even included links to properties it would be illegal to download!

This fact alone should tell you what SOPA is really all about.

one thing you will notice in this is that you will never hear Napsters name come up..because they knew Napster was a great idea..they benefitted from it and still do today...

they just wanted control over those things..and they got it..

I worked as a label rep for 15 years.  Was actually the most fun job I ever had.  I worked my butt off but still had a blast doing it.  And I will be first in line to say that the business model of the Major Labels sucked.  There was so much greed and stupidity at the top it was nuts and I can point to more problems than the average person because I was in the middle of it.  When you think about it, when the soundtrack for a movie cost more than the DVD of the movie, something is askew!  Many, many other things.  One hit wonders, albums with only one song worth listening to, the mistreatment of musicians by the Labels, etc, etc.

But there is another side to this that many people don't realize the severity of what was going on with the illegal downloads.  In 2000, I was responsible for accounts with about  $5 Million in sales annually.  By 2005 that figure for the same group of stores had dropped to around 1.2 Million.  While I know that there were also other factors involved, based on the habits I knew of friends and others,  people just went hog wild downloading content.

I can't drum up the documentation now, but there were Universities that saw their total bandwidth use drop in excess of 25% when they blocked access to file sharing sites.  That is a huge number.

During the course of those five years I watched a lot of small distributors fold.  Finally, in 2005, while my company was still some how miraculously still solvent, the bank walked in and pulled their line of credit, effectively closing it, doing it before they took a loss.

Bottom line to me is that I would not have so much minded losing my job to a new business model, that is a move to online music sales.  It still would have hurt, but such is life.  But I didn't lose my job to that.  It was stolen from me by thieves.  While we can point a lot of fingers at the Music Labels, it by no means justifies the thievery that went on by people who thought they should get it all for free.

On a final note, I don't like the heavy handedness today of the RIAA.  I am against it too.  But my perspective on why they are that heavy handed is a little different.

 

you are probably gonna hate me now  =(

i was in the chat rooms in Napster back then when there was nothing on Napster..a lot of the complaint was the cost of what companies were charging for music on some silly piece of plastic called a CD...$20.00 and it wasn't even new music..it was music pulled from albums put to CD..

if they would have left well enough alone they would have seen a boost in sales...people were just testing music mostly at first to hear what was what and if it was worth the 20.00 to dish out for something that could scratch  from being dropped and become useless....

it probably wouldn't have been so bad if Lars and big head from Metallica and Dre would not have jumped in to boost against what was going on..then Garth brooks and his silly stunt with trade in shops wanting sales from those..it just seemed to really get flooded after those guys jumped in..especially Metallica..Dre really came later after he saw the attention Met was getting..

Metallica and Dre and brooks DL's went through the roof because they warned people they better not  DL them..that just filled the place with those DL's till it went down..it gave people a target  to go after that they could see..

i know you saw nothing but thieves in Napster..but there was a movement going on ..and all those bands did was help boost it when they laid out threats..

when we seen artists jumping on the side of Napster..real good artists like Alanis Morissette..that only boosted the feeling even more..Linkin Park was a real big boost as they were giving their music away back then and backing up what was going on..

i paid for the music that i was downloading..i had them on better quality already sitting in my house on LP's and cassettes and even CD's..

i just got them for my mp3 player so i didn't have to carry around a bunch of CD's or cassettes..

i still have the original exe for Napster and the last one when it was still live..

I'm sorry you lost a really good job because of what happened back then..But i can't be sorry i was involved in that..

it opened the flood gates for people that wanted their stuff downloaded rather than having to go to a label..

2000 to 2005 i can't help but remember being the boy band years or really commercial filled content because artists were seeing they could do it on their own..that or getting picked up from labels because they were being heard when a label would have just tossed them to the side any other time..

we had power in choice of who was gonna make it in music and the power left a lot of those places that used to hold them back..

now the big threat is here to try and close that door again and there is gonna be another movement..

i'm not trying to glorify the ones that were there just because there was opportunity to steal free music..but without their numbers we wouldn't be hearing half the bands we are today..that whole thing changed the music industry and i can't help but be glad that happened..

but i am really sorry that you got hurt by all that..and i can understand the anger and resentment you feel..i feel bad about that part i honestly do..and i hope you don't hate on me because i was there on the other side..

i just want you to know we were not all there stealing..there was a passion behind that whole thing as well..it may not have been the creators intention  of it or it may have been i don't know..but it ended up that way..

i just know what we were going on about in chat and in IM's and when we would see someone from the other side make a threat and then see numbers jump..it just felt like something that was gonna either get us all in trouble or make a difference..

i guess because i talked about owning the music i was downloading and wasn't passing mine around that they didn't bother with me..you could make copies of music you owned then as long as you didn't share it..but they did go after others in there..i didn't hear if anything happened to them or not but i know our chat was monitored ..

i was there until it went offline..

then later other programs came out where you could pay for the music and that's what i did..it was better quality and you didn't end up with half songs..or those silly guys labeling something as a song and it really be them yelling stuff like "i am watching gay porn!!" hehehe

well i hope you don't hate me after reading this..but i could understand if you did..it really sounded like a nice job and again i'm sorry  about  what happen to you.. =(

 

No, I'm not going to hate you.

The whole industry was a mess in many ways.

At the start, no one could really know what the end result was going to be.  Among other things, if allowing some free downloads would have resulted in more sales, etc, so a "war" erupted.  But for everyone I knew who claimed being allowed some free down loads could result in more sales, when I asked what the last CD they bought was all I was answered with was blank looks.

As far as Garth goes, I had a pretty low opinion of him after he said that one of the reasons he was against the sale of used CD's was because it cut into the song writer's earnings.  To which I replied, "Mr I Have More Money Than My Children's Children Can Spend, then why aren't you lobbying for a better pay scale for the song writers."

So because of the of what had become available because of the internet, a new sales model was needed.  We Sales and Acct Reps tried telling that to the executives even before Napster really took off but our voice fell on deaf ears.

It is really the people who think that music should just be free that I still have little respect for.  Those who think of it as an entitlement.  I am still friends with many musicians and somehow the huge majority of people don't realize how hard most musicians  work at their trade.  To get ready for a concert tour, Mick Jagger runs seven miles a day.  He doesn't just get on stage and start prancing about.  He has to make sure he is in shape in order to do it.  And they don't sweat just because they are under hot lights.  They are really working up there.

Thanks

 ETA to add, despite my experience, I am still against SOPA and so also are all my musician friends!  That is very telling.

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:


 

I know what a copyright holder is and isn't. Artist's sign away their publishing rights or they don't or they keep part royalities (a portion).  My agreeing with SOPA has nothing to do with simply music, and on music piracy you and I Ceka will always, always disagree period.  You think music is great.  I say music is crap now.  On that we will never see eye to eye on.  And, I need to clarify I am for a type of SOPA, just not SOPA in it's current form.  I do believe, however, some kind of "SOPA" will pass eventually, but perhaps not in it's current form.  Let's drop that for now and get back on topic. 

Now, your point about copyright is confusing.  Your point here -- username is tied to real name.  How can that be when we are discussing whether all residents should be verified or not with payment info? 

music was just an example of the many types of content..i just used one type as an example..i wasn't about to go into the huge list hehehe

how we feel about music is irrelevant to all that...you have no idea of my range in taste of music..it's pretty wide hehehe

 

anyways..my point about copy writing something..you create something on your computer it is born and copy written right then and there..if you upload it to the net it is dated with an exact time again..in this world it will be showing an upload born date and exact time as well..

remember that letter you wanted to mail to yourself? there it is..your user name shows up as the creator and owner of that content with a date and time..payment info or no payment info it is tied to me..if i made it in world it is copy written and tied to the real world me also..payment info or no payment info..all with a date and time down to the very second it was created..

at this moment it does not exist anywhere else in the world but in my possession and also on the net in my inventory under my user name and on my computer where the original sits dated and with a time it was sealed..

i've just dated my content with even more evidence that it is mine..no date will show up earlier than mine  and the file sitting in a zip will be showing an even earlier date..i can upload it to my website server as well giving it another date..the more times i do this in different places..the more i build evidence to ensure the content was copy written by me originally..

the only thing that could stop me proving it was mine is if someone showed up with the exact same thing as mine and with an earlier creation date or showing proof of ownership of the copy writes..someone registering my copy written content does not give them rights over my content unless they can somehow show i sold my rights away to them..

you were saying there are no copy writes in second life..i'm just showing that yes there are..and that you don't need payment info on file to have them..

 

Yes, but one hard drive crash could wipe that all out, couldn't it?  Backup of course is necessary for most people who are serious about their files, especially when it's a business.  But....does that mean every creator on SL has backups and proof if their harddrive should crash?

However, a creator could still do other things to assure potential customer's that this is an original by them such as including a pair of underwear in each set of clothing that has their trademarked logo on it, for an example, and even include this logo underwear with skins.  Any items without a logoed bra or underwear would then become items to stay away from.  Not that we would have to wear the bra, underwear, baldcap, etc, but they would be included in the folder with a trademark. 

Not all people want trademarks or logos ON their clothing as I hate trademarks and logos in rl, as I'm not into status symbols and do not wear clothes because they represent a designer or some kind of "status".  I buy nothing with a logo in rl, as I can't stand that kind of stuff, so I wouldn't like logo clothing in SL either.

But there are some simple DO's that a creator could do when listing their items...

1.  Put Username, Date Created, and state not a full perm item right on the photoshopped picture of the outfit when it is first launched either MP or inworld.

2.  A seller could include a logo with underwear or make a piece of underclothing that completely disappears when worn, even if underwear.  Thus, clothing that DOES NOT have underwear in the listing description would be items a shopper would than know to avoid. 

State right in the description of the item that YES the clothing you are about to purchase includes a set of my original logo name underwear, or bald cap for skins and hair, etc.  For furniture and accesories, I haven't thought of anything yet.  But, as seller's it is your responsibility to fully protect YOURSELF.  Shopper's should not be punished as if what you said above Ceka holds true, then a shopper could prove to LL that they have nothing they copybotted and therefore their account should not be suspended for what someone else did. 

p.s.  I still don't want to shop anymore.  That may or may not change.  This thread has made me rethink a lot of things and how they are so haphazard here.  Seller's do need to present themselves with a little more transparency and professionalism.  Such as this is the kind of seller and their description on MP I would avoid:  This is purdy hatt.  If there is a some kind of a system either with underwear, baldcaps or...(other not thought of yet items -- perhaps some kind of notecard with a creator's logo), at least shopper's would have some way of knowing whether a dealer is upfront or not.  And I do avoid the seller's who cannot write out a simple sentence.  The shady ones do sound like the one's stating in their whole description:  this purdy hatt. 

I don't wish to derail the thread into for or against SOPA and the reasons why or why not.  However, it's the creator's business and the responsibility of their items should not be put onto consumer's. 

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:


 No, I'm not going to hate you.

The whole industry was a mess in many ways.

At the start, no one could really know what the end result was going to be.  Among other things, if allowing some free downloads would have resulted in more sales, etc, so a "war" erupted.  But for everyone I knew who claimed being allowed some free down loads could result in more sales, when I asked what the last CD they bought was all I was answered with was blank looks.

As far as Garth goes, I had a pretty low opinion of him after he said that one of the reasons he was against the sale of used CD's was because it cut into the song writer's earnings.  To which I replied, "Mr I Have More Money Than My Children's Children Can Spend, then why aren't you lobbying for a better pay scale for the song writers."

So because of the of what had become available because of the internet, a new sales model was needed.  We Sales and Acct Reps tried telling that to the executives even before Napster really took off but our voice fell on deaf ears.

It is really the people who think that music should just be free that I still have little respect for.  Those who think of it as an entitlement.  I am still friends with many musicians and somehow the huge majority of people don't realize how hard most musicians  work at their trade.  To get ready for a concert tour, Mick Jagger runs seven miles a day.  He doesn't just get on stage and start prancing about.  He has to make sure he is in shape in order to do it.  And they don't sweat just because they are under hot lights.  They are really working up there.

Thanks

 ETA to add, despite my experience, I am still against SOPA and so also are all my musician friends!  That is very telling.

ya i don't believe music should be free either and i really didn't think it should have been free then either..but seeing the price jump so high..something was gonna give somewhere..talk about timing with the net becoming so popular at that time..i remember cable and DSL being new in a popular way.. then making downloads like light speed after getting that from dial up..

video cams being the new popular thing also and streaming just starting up because you had speeds that could watch things then..

i didn't want artists to really get hurt or anyone really..well cept Lars and big head  and brooks..Dre was really not that loud lol

he just saw a spot light and went for it..

there were some really funny napster flash scenes people made about them..i bet they are on you tube now..i'm looking right now to see lol

 

Aaaanyways i'm gonna multi task here and look and type  lol..

before mp3 it was wav files we had to play with..and if you had a song on your computer and were in like yahoo or comic chat..if nobody else had it they couldn't hear it lol not unless you were on mic and playing it..

wow that really seems like a long time ago..i was still in school then when napster came out..0.0

i bet when napster came around those executives wish they had listened to you guys hehehe

well it's good to see we ended up on the same side this time =)

 

ok i found a couple of them..these bring back funny  memories hehehe i remember even these were up for download on napster even though you could link to them hehehehe

omg i forgot about elton john  lol and i don't even remember sheryl crow or the others..Met was pretty much the loudest..

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


 No, I'm not going to hate you.

The whole industry was a mess in many ways.

At the start, no one could really know what the end result was going to be.  Among other things, if allowing some free downloads would have resulted in more sales, etc, so a "war" erupted.  But for everyone I knew who claimed being allowed some free down loads could result in more sales, when I asked what the last CD they bought was all I was answered with was blank looks.

As far as Garth goes, I had a pretty low opinion of him after he said that one of the reasons he was against the sale of used CD's was because it cut into the song writer's earnings.  To which I replied, "Mr I Have More Money Than My Children's Children Can Spend, then why aren't you lobbying for a better pay scale for the song writers."

So because of the of what had become available because of the internet, a new sales model was needed.  We Sales and Acct Reps tried telling that to the executives even before Napster really took off but our voice fell on deaf ears.

It is really the people who think that music should just be free that I still have little respect for.  Those who think of it as an entitlement.  I am still friends with many musicians and somehow the huge majority of people don't realize how hard most musicians  work at their trade.  To get ready for a concert tour, Mick Jagger runs seven miles a day.  He doesn't just get on stage and start prancing about.  He has to make sure he is in shape in order to do it.  And they don't sweat just because they are under hot lights.  They are really working up there.

Thanks

 ETA to add, despite my experience, I am still against SOPA and so also are all my musician friends!  That is very telling.

ya i don't believe music should be free either and i really didn't think it should have been free then either..but seeing the price jump so high..something was gonna give somewhere..talk about timing with the net becoming so popular at that time..i remember cable and DSL being new in a popular way.. then making downloads like light speed after getting that from dial up..

video cams being the new popular thing also and streaming just starting up because you had speeds that could watch things then..

i didn't want artists to really get hurt or anyone really..well cept Lars and big head  and brooks..Dre was really not that loud lol

he just saw a spot light and went for it..

there were some really funny napster flash scenes people made about them..i bet they are on you tube now..i'm looking right now to see lol

 

Aaaanyways i'm gonna multi task here and look and type  lol..

before mp3 it was wav files we had to play with..and if you had a song on your computer and were in like yahoo or comic chat..if nobody else had it they couldn't hear it lol not unless you were on mic and playing it..

wow that really seems like a long time ago..i was still in school then when napster came out..0.0

i bet when napster came around those executives wish they had listened to you guys hehehe

well it's good to see we ended up on the same side this time =)

 

Very Cool

I do hope that I am not getting off on too much of a side track, but it's interesting that some feel that the "Single" has now come full circle.  I had a link to an excellent article on this but am unable to find it right now. 

Originally, given the technology and manufacturing techniques, the single was all you could buy.  And it allowed for a song to be about 3 minutes long.  But as manufacturing processes improved finally the LP Album made it's debut.  And they could hold around 45 minutes worth of music without degrading the audio.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_%28music%29

Some albums had 'filler' songs to take up space but generally there were no 'bad songs.'  Also the whole idea of 'concept albums' evolved.'  There are to this day some artists who will not sell a 'single' because they consider their album an entire package/experience.

But then with the advent of the CD, suddenly you could get about 70 minutes worth of music on it and some executives and musicians decided that they needed to fill all the empty space and hence were born 'junk songs.'  But then also, some greedy people said we are giving you twice the music so we should be able to charge you a higher price. 

But people got pissed with the junk and said give us our singles back.  I don't want to buy an album of junk just to hear one song.  So now we are back where the single in many ways is what dominates the market.  It's an interesting thing.

 

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Mayalily wrote:


Yes, but one hard drive crash could wipe that all out, couldn't it?  Backup of course is necessary for most people who are serious about their files, especially when it's a business.  But....does that mean every creator on SL has backups and proof if their harddrive should crash?

However, a creator could still do other things to assure potential customer's that this is an original by them such as including a pair of underwear in each set of clothing that has their trademarked logo on it, for an example, and even include this logo underwear with skins.  Any items without a logoed bra or underwear would then become items to stay away from.  Not that we would have to wear the bra, underwear, baldcap, etc, but they would be included in the folder with a trademark. 

Not all people want trademarks or logos ON their clothing as I hate trademarks and logos in rl, as I'm not into status symbols and do not wear clothes because they represent a designer or some kind of "status".  I buy nothing with a logo in rl, as I can't stand that kind of stuff, so I wouldn't like logo clothing in SL either.

But there are some simple DO's that a creator could do when listing their items...

1.  Put Username, Date Created, and state not a full perm item right on the photoshopped picture of the outfit when it is first launched either MP or inworld.

2.  A seller could include a logo with underwear or make a piece of underclothing that completely disappears when worn, even if underwear.  Thus, clothing that DOES NOT have underwear in the listing description would be items a shopper would than know to avoid. 

State right in the description of the item that YES the clothing you are about to purchase includes a set of my original logo name underwear, or bald cap for skins and hair, etc.  For furniture and accesories, I haven't thought of anything yet.  But, as seller's it is your responsibility to fully protect YOURSELF.  Shopper's should not be punished as if what you said above Ceka holds true, then a shopper could prove to LL that they have nothing they copybotted and therefore their account should not be suspended for what someone else did. 

p.s.  I still don't want to shop anymore.  That may or may not change.  This thread has made me rethink a lot of things and how they are so haphazard here.  Seller's do need to present themselves with a little more transparency and professionalism.  Such as this is the kind of seller and their description on MP I would avoid:  This is purdy hatt.  If there is a some kind of a system either with underwear, baldcaps or...(other not thought of yet items -- perhaps some kind of notecard with a creator's logo), at least shopper's would have some way of knowing whether a dealer is upfront or not.  And I do avoid the seller's who cannot write out a simple sentence.  The shady ones do sound like the one's stating in their whole description:  this purdy hatt. 

I don't wish to derail the thread into for or against SOPA and the reasons why or why not.  However, it's the creator's business and the responsibility of their items should not be put onto consumer's. 

 

zip drives are a dime a dozen for content backup..you can get them in keychains as well and carry them around with you or  put them anywhere..a safe if they want..lots of options... as well as having online storage like a server..there are lots of ways to back things up..and if i were serious i would wait like a month before i ever let my things out for sale after i created them..

if a creator doesn't protect their stuff with backups then it's on them and nobody else..

as far as logo's and things like that  to identify a creators work..i would hope my work doesn't look like anyone elses to where i would need a logo or something else to define my work is mine..i can't speak for others..

logos to me are just advertising like a bumper sticker.. although on some products they do enhance them i think =) if they have a really nice logo..like sun glasses..they work well on those =)

sorry if i am just jumping around and giving short answers.. but i'm really tired from no sleep lol

i work nights and the holidays have me running around on empty today it seems hehehe

 

as far as some shopper getting banned for buiying content that they were not aware was botted content..like from the market place for instance..they are not going to be banned..

all LL is going to do is pull the content when it gets DMCA'd..they will just be out of the content and the money they spent on it..

they are not to blame for buying that content..not unless they somehow knew it was stollen and it could be proven they knew and then went to buy it..

that would probably take having to find a conversation of them talking about it from LL logs..and thats gonna be really rare case unless they were set up..

a content creator is responsible for their content and thats it..not LL not you or me ..

we take our own risks hosting it where we host it..if we feel it is not a safe place to host it and still do..then it's on us..not on the customers  or the place it's hosted..

all i was saying basically before is it's not a bad thing to educate all users..especially new users ..because they become the biggest victums..

and thats not me blaming them for anything..it's more of a look out so you don't get taken  kind of thing..and also if they see something..just drop an IM to the creator if they do happen to see soemthing they are suspicious about..

thats basically all anyone can ask..

i wouldn't be worried about getting banned for shopping..you are not going to get banned if you happend to end up with botted content..

if it were to get DMCA'd it would fall on the theif and just go missing from everyones inventory that had bought that content..

sorry if i repeated anythign in this or missed something..my eyes are really heavy right now hehehehe

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


 No, I'm not going to hate you.

The whole industry was a mess in many ways.

At the start, no one could really know what the end result was going to be.  Among other things, if allowing some free downloads would have resulted in more sales, etc, so a "war" erupted.  But for everyone I knew who claimed being allowed some free down loads could result in more sales, when I asked what the last CD they bought was all I was answered with was blank looks.

As far as Garth goes, I had a pretty low opinion of him after he said that one of the reasons he was against the sale of used CD's was because it cut into the song writer's earnings.  To which I replied, "Mr I Have More Money Than My Children's Children Can Spend, then why aren't you lobbying for a better pay scale for the song writers."

So because of the of what had become available because of the internet, a new sales model was needed.  We Sales and Acct Reps tried telling that to the executives even before Napster really took off but our voice fell on deaf ears.

It is really the people who think that music should just be free that I still have little respect for.  Those who think of it as an entitlement.  I am still friends with many musicians and somehow the huge majority of people don't realize how hard most musicians  work at their trade.  To get ready for a concert tour, Mick Jagger runs seven miles a day.  He doesn't just get on stage and start prancing about.  He has to make sure he is in shape in order to do it.  And they don't sweat just because they are under hot lights.  They are really working up there.

Thanks

 ETA to add, despite my experience, I am still against SOPA and so also are all my musician friends!  That is very telling.

ya i don't believe music should be free either and i really didn't think it should have been free then either..but seeing the price jump so high..something was gonna give somewhere..talk about timing with the net becoming so popular at that time..i remember cable and DSL being new in a popular way.. then making downloads like light speed after getting that from dial up..

video cams being the new popular thing also and streaming just starting up because you had speeds that could watch things then..

i didn't want artists to really get hurt or anyone really..well cept Lars and big head  and brooks..Dre was really not that loud lol

he just saw a spot light and went for it..

there were some really funny napster flash scenes people made about them..i bet they are on you tube now..i'm looking right now to see lol

 

Aaaanyways i'm gonna multi task here and look and type  lol..

before mp3 it was wav files we had to play with..and if you had a song on your computer and were in like yahoo or comic chat..if nobody else had it they couldn't hear it lol not unless you were on mic and playing it..

wow that really seems like a long time ago..i was still in school then when napster came out..0.0

i bet when napster came around those executives wish they had listened to you guys hehehe

well it's good to see we ended up on the same side this time =)

 

Very Cool

I do hope that I am not getting off on too much of a side track, but it's interesting that some feel that the "Single" has now come full circle.  I had a link to an excellent article on this but am unable to find it right now. 

Originally, given the technology and manufacturing techniques, the single was all you could buy.  And it allowed for a song to be about 3 minutes long.  But as manufacturing processes improved finally the LP Album made it's debut.  And they could hold around 45 minutes worth of music without degrading the audio. 

Some albums had 'filler' songs to take up space but generally there were no 'bad songs.'  Also the whole idea of 'concept albums' evolved.'  There are to this day some artists who will not sell a 'single' because they consider their album an entire package/experience.

But then with the advent of the CD, suddenly you could get about 70 minutes worth of music on it and some executives and musicians decided that they needed to fill all the empty space and hence were born 'junk songs.'  But then also, some greedy people said we are giving you twice the music so we should be able to charge you a higher price. 

But people got pissed with the junk and said give us our singles back.  I don't want to buy an album of junk just to hear one song.  So now we are back where the single in many ways is what dominates the market.  It's an interesting thing.

 

ya my father has tons of 45's hehehe he got them from my grandmother and from when he was little also..he even has his player from when he was little...he has like all his stuff from when he was little and all his music..like this big wall of albims..

it's really cool lol

he has his mixing board from liek the 80's..it has all these levers on it and his two turn tables and even his sterios from back then..he's like a pack rat when it comes to that stuff..but a really well organized one LOL

it's all in his man cave..hehehehehe

we were never allowed to go in there until we wer e like teenagers unless it was with him..and still my sister was never allowed in there till she was like 17 lol

she is a klutz hehehe

he has superman comics like form when he doied and all kinds when he was little too...and he gave me his collection of heavey metal magazines.all because he saw me reading oen and that i had a couple of them..i loved the fantasy art and stuff in them..so he dug them out and told me to take good care of them..

omg i'm rambling lol

i need to go take a nap or i'm never gonna stop..

i'll see you later hehehe  ni ni's hehehe

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I myself am a customer and a former content creator.

I started out when the Marketplace was still the SLX.

I did not even have PIOF status, let alone PIU. 

I do not presume to limit who can and cannot post up their wares on the Marketplace.

You, have no right to even suggest such a move by Linden Lab. 

Content theft in Second Life is as old as the prgram itself - do as Peggy has said and use the proper channels.

Or: Cancel your account and make your own grid, where you can control who gets to put their wares up and who does not.

It's a shame your friend had her content ripped: It happens every day.

Now, guess what sunshine? Not everyone HAS payment information to put on file, let alone use. Not everyone is willing to trust Linden Lab with that information either.

Such people would be locked out of putting their wares up on the Marketplace if Linden Lab thought like you (and thankfully, they don't). Your "right" to a secure market ends where their right to withold their payment information begind.

Care to guess which right trumps the other? 

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Ry0ta Exonar wrote:

I have a feeling that's quite irrelevant. I filed DMCAs on 10 avatars so far and 7 of them had PIU or PIOF status.

I think it's more important to educate people not to buy stolen items on the marketplace because as long as they don't bring profit to the thieves, they gain nothing. So I'd like to see a prominent warning sign on every page of the marketplace which goes something like "WARNING! Disclaimer - Linden Lab has no responsibility for the content of the items sold by each seller on the marketplace. Please note that some people may be selling unusable, illegal and/or stolen goods. Purchase of stolen goods may lead to the termination of your account. Read More..." and clicking on it will open some kind of shopping safety tips page so that people can learn more.

 

Unfortunately, this will solve nothing. First of all, the average person is not at risk for purchasing legally if there is no certain way to determine whether or not the goods are being sold legally so, unless Linden Lab then can prove the person making the purchase knew full well that it was a stolen product, they have no right to remove an account and will be creating more problems then they solve. Secondly, the most that will happen is the purchaser lose that item sometime in the very distant future but that said, purchasing stolen items are often far cheaper and honestly do you think people are going to spend more when they can get away with a cheaper, lifted version?

I don't mean to pick on your suggestion, something does need to be done and I feel Linden Lab once again, has their hands tied and chosing not to get involved is a strategy to get the most out of the situation and not risk bad publicity either way.  That said though, I do like the original suggestion as most people who do have pament information shown, are the ones who are going to cash out anyway and certainly will be the most prominent sellers so, Linden Lab should consider doing something because as it stands, it's far too easy to steal and get away with it.

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Solar Legion wrote:

I myself am a customer and a former content creator.

I started out when the Marketplace was still the SLX.

I did not even have PIOF status, let alone PIU. 

I do not presume to limit who can and cannot post up their wares on the Marketplace.

You
, have no right to even
suggest
such a move by Linden Lab. 

Content theft in Second Life is as old as the prgram itself - do as Peggy has said and use the proper channels.

Or: Cancel your account and make your own grid, where you can control who gets to put their wares up and who does not.

It's a shame your friend had her content ripped: It happens every day.

Now, guess what sunshine? Not everyone HAS payment information to put
on file
, let alone
use.
Not everyone is willing to trust Linden Lab with that information either.

Such people would be locked out of putting their wares up on the Marketplace if Linden Lab thought like you (and thankfully, they don't). Your "right" to a secure market
ends
where
their
right to withold their payment information begind.

Care to guess which right trumps the other? 

She has every right to suggest this and honestly, what's so difficult about making a simple PayPal connection to your Second Life? Unless you have something to hide, a small inconvience is all that is required on your part and don't even bring up this trust issue because each time you log into Second Life, they log information that if legally requested, can be used to gain your personal details as provided by your Internet Service Provider.  You are not anonymous, unless you spend your time trying to be as anonymous as possible, which is more reason you should not t be trusted, not the other way around.

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Unfortunatly going PIOF won't change a thing either..

They went PIOF to upload mesh and still mesh is being stolen..Not long after mesh was on the grid did stolen mesh content start showing up on the Market Place..

Let alone you still have those steeling net content from other games an sites and bringing it here selling it as their own..They have to be PIOF to be able to do that..

Can't blame the NPIOF for that theft..It won't slow down if the grid went PIOF..they will just find harsher ways  that will be more hurtfull to someone somewhere just to get on the grid to steal..

it's sad but really there is no way to stop content theft =(

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Solar Legion wrote:

I myself am a customer and a former content creator.

I started out when the Marketplace was still the SLX.

I did not even have PIOF status, let alone PIU. 

I do not presume to limit who can and cannot post up their wares on the Marketplace.

You
, have no right to even
suggest
such a move by Linden Lab. 

Content theft in Second Life is as old as the prgram itself - do as Peggy has said and use the proper channels.

Or: Cancel your account and make your own grid, where you can control who gets to put their wares up and who does not.

It's a shame your friend had her content ripped: It happens every day.

Now, guess what sunshine? Not everyone HAS payment information to put
on file
, let alone
use.
Not everyone is willing to trust Linden Lab with that information either.

Such people would be locked out of putting their wares up on the Marketplace if Linden Lab thought like you (and thankfully, they don't). Your "right" to a secure market
ends
where
their
right to withold their payment information begind.

Care to guess which right trumps the other? 

Okay, you're not willing to trust LL with payment info, yet you expect consumer's to trust you and LL with their money when they purchase.

The onus is on LL and the creator's to make some sort of trustworthy and transparent marketplace both on website AND inworld as there are many of the same items inworld as I stated earlier in this thread. 

I think with SOPA looming, it's time for seller's to have a verified seller's account before they are even able to sell.

SL is a business with real money being transferred, and you except buyer's to just except the "buyer beware" idea?  0.o

And if you are too young to have a business checking account, why should I want to deal with underage teenage seller's trying to sell in an adult business world?

 

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Setekh Ichtama wrote:


Solar Legion wrote:

I myself am a customer and a former content creator.

I started out when the Marketplace was still the SLX.

I did not even have PIOF status, let alone PIU. 

I do not presume to limit who can and cannot post up their wares on the Marketplace.

You
, have no right to even
suggest
such a move by Linden Lab. 

Content theft in Second Life is as old as the prgram itself - do as Peggy has said and use the proper channels.

Or: Cancel your account and make your own grid, where you can control who gets to put their wares up and who does not.

It's a shame your friend had her content ripped: It happens every day.

Now, guess what sunshine? Not everyone HAS payment information to put
on file
, let alone
use.
Not everyone is willing to trust Linden Lab with that information either.

Such people would be locked out of putting their wares up on the Marketplace if Linden Lab thought like you (and thankfully, they don't). Your "right" to a secure market
ends
where
their
right to withold their payment information begind.

Care to guess which right trumps the other? 

She has every right to suggest this and honestly, what's so difficult about making a simple PayPal connection to your Second Life? Unless you have something to hide, a small inconvience is all that is required on your part and don't even bring up this trust issue because each time you log into Second Life, they log information that if legally requested, can be used to gain your personal details as provided by your Internet Service Provider.  You are not anonymous, unless you spend your time trying to be as anonymous as possible, which is more reason you should not t be trusted, not the other way around.

I agree wholeheartedly, it makes me wonder what they are afraid of.  Thus, my trust diminishes even further. 

Good post, btw. 

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Mayalily wrote:


Solar Legion wrote:

I myself am a customer and a former content creator.

I started out when the Marketplace was still the SLX.

I did not even have PIOF status, let alone PIU. 

I do not presume to limit who can and cannot post up their wares on the Marketplace.

You
, have no right to even
suggest
such a move by Linden Lab. 

Content theft in Second Life is as old as the prgram itself - do as Peggy has said and use the proper channels.

Or: Cancel your account and make your own grid, where you can control who gets to put their wares up and who does not.

It's a shame your friend had her content ripped: It happens every day.

Now, guess what sunshine? Not everyone HAS payment information to put
on file
, let alone
use.
Not everyone is willing to trust Linden Lab with that information either.

Such people would be locked out of putting their wares up on the Marketplace if Linden Lab thought like you (and thankfully, they don't). Your "right" to a secure market
ends
where
their
right to withold their payment information begind.

Care to guess which right trumps the other? 

Okay, you're not willing to trust LL with payment info, yet you expect consumer's to trust you and LL with their money when they purchase.

The onus is on LL and the creator's to make some sort of trustworthy and transparent marketplace both on website AND inworld as there are many of the same items inworld as I stated earlier in this thread. 

I think with SOPA looming, it's time for seller's to have a verified seller's account before they are even able to sell.

SL is a business with real money being transferred, and you except buyer's to just except the "buyer beware" idea?  0.o

And if you are too young to have a business checking account, why should I want to deal with underage teenage seller's trying to sell in an adult business world?

 

i remember back when me and my bf played UT..if we wanted to be able to use the forums for  UT that we had to use our email from our ISP..

i don't think people can lie about at least their location if they are using an ISP email..

i'm not sure if there are a lot of work arounds that someone could do or not with that..but it may be something they could use on the market place..

you can't really lie to your isp since they kind of know who you are already hehehehe

and the good thing is everyone has one and i believe they only get one shot to use it..if someone got banned from the forums..they really couldn't get back in using even one of their other isp emails that an isp would give them because it tied to the same computer..it was something like that..

but maybe since everyone has one and there are no real restrictions to use them like some can't use certain pay information and stuff..that it may be a way to go and also to keep people from lying about their info ....as much hehehe

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:


Solar Legion wrote:

I myself am a customer and a former content creator.

I started out when the Marketplace was still the SLX.

I did not even have PIOF status, let alone PIU. 

I do not presume to limit who can and cannot post up their wares on the Marketplace.

You
, have no right to even
suggest
such a move by Linden Lab. 

Content theft in Second Life is as old as the prgram itself - do as Peggy has said and use the proper channels.

Or: Cancel your account and make your own grid, where you can control who gets to put their wares up and who does not.

It's a shame your friend had her content ripped: It happens every day.

Now, guess what sunshine? Not everyone HAS payment information to put
on file
, let alone
use.
Not everyone is willing to trust Linden Lab with that information either.

Such people would be locked out of putting their wares up on the Marketplace if Linden Lab thought like you (and thankfully, they don't). Your "right" to a secure market
ends
where
their
right to withold their payment information begind.

Care to guess which right trumps the other? 

Okay, you're not willing to trust LL with payment info, yet you expect consumer's to trust you and LL with their money when they purchase.

The onus is on LL and the creator's to make some sort of trustworthy and transparent marketplace both on website AND inworld as there are many of the same items inworld as I stated earlier in this thread. 

I think with SOPA looming, it's time for seller's to have a verified seller's account before they are even able to sell.

SL is a business with real money being transferred, and you except buyer's to just except the "buyer beware" idea?  0.o

And if you are too young to have a business checking account, why should I want to deal with underage teenage seller's trying to sell in an adult business world?

 

i remember back when me and my bf played UT..if we wanted to be able to use the forums for  UT that we had to use our email from our ISP..

i don't think people can lie about at least their location if they are using an ISP email..

i'm not sure if there are a lot of work arounds that someone could do or not with that..but it may be something they could use on the market place..

you can't really lie to your isp since they kind of know who you are already hehehehe

That doesn't help us if we have items taken out of our inventory that we paid for.  The way the rules are now, it helps the seller but punishes the buyers. 

And Ceka, yes you were rambling quite a bit and not reading my posts yesterday.  I said DON'T put logos on the clothing themselves.  I said put logos were people cannot see them, such as include underwear, baldcaps, etc.  And then the creator's should state that yes all my items come with my original logoed underwear/baldcap, and were registered and copyrighted on this date, along with none of my items are full perm.

However, what I'm finding in this thread is that people are living in their own little me world and not listening to consumer's.  I give up. 

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