Breedables in SL.. Meeroos Creators have too much power?

[MasterEdward Avril]

The other night, I voiced my opinion on how I was fed up with meeroos..  it was my opinion, and in an open forum.  For this, I was banned.  However, the reason I was then told I was banned was for "Multiple Violations against the TOS".  Which, is completely untrue.

How did I find out?  I went to rez a meeroo a friend gave me, to put a new costume on it.. just to keep for decoration and what not..  and the nest vanished.. was TAKEN from me, with the Banned message I posted above.  And, if THAT wasn't enough..  They took the only two Meeroos I kept from my original group:  My two Clover's .. which I kept because my daughter loved them.. they were meepetted..  and yet they had to take those too?  

That brought me to the realization that.. they have just too much power.. what is to stop them from taking anyone and everyone's at whim?  If you upset them?  Be warned.. they WILL take your roos if you do.. and don't expect any reinbursemtent.

[Cinnamon Lohner]

Banned from what??  Your post is very unclear in that regard.  Banned from logging into SL?  Banned from owning meeroos.  What exactly is the nature of your ban?

--Cinn

[Griffin Ceawlin]

Which "open forum" was that? The one they pay to maintain? Or was it one of their inworld groups? I don't know that I would really consider either an "open forum."

In any case, if you're so "fed up with meeroos," why do you care?

[Dana Hickman]

---

Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

In any case, if you're so "fed up with meeroos," why do you care?

---

 

Probably because it's not about the breedable itself so much as the fact that creators are allowed to script in ways to return, delete, or cripple a valid purchased product at their own whim, without having to clearly and blatantly notify the customer before purchase. For whatever reason this kind of functionality is included, it amounts to nothing more than a "bait and switch" when it's used for ANY single thing other than post-copy (copybot) protection. Best advice is to research more before purchasing these kind of heavily scripted items, and to never purchase any ones that include a hidden recall, cripple, or delete function that the creator can mess with. OPs like this one are how others find out about these things, and because the creator's certainly not going to tip his hand on stuff like this.

[Qie Niangao]

As with so many things in SL, the Meeroo creators are dining out on the love of Lindens for as long as it lasts -- which will be until the next shiny comes along and starts making ripples in the economy.

Until then, the Meeroo-makers will enjoy free rein from LL to do as they damned please to their customers, even if some of those customers get so disgusted that they leave SL never to return.  We've seen that before, but in this case, I don't think there's much "leaving SL" actually happening over Meeroos yet.  Certainly, any victim worrying over the fate of their individual beloved Meeroos (gack!) are not prime candidates for quitting SL in protest.

 

[Ian Undercroft]

I note that you make reference to having purchased one of the novelty Halloween costumes. When they were announced on the official Meeroo Blog you posted by way of comment:

Just an fyi.. I am disgusted.. so.. if anyone wants to buy my entire inventory
of meeroo nests, AND my lives.. including Koi, Cales, Cinders, traits, more..
around 200 or more.. IM MasterEdward Avril in world asap... before they go poof

Yours appeared a lone voice of dissent. The "disgust" you expressed was unreasoned and appeared to me illogical. It now appears that you hypocritically went out and purchased that which you expressed "disgust" about. If, as appears, you were intending to "poof" your meeroos, why are you now bothered that you have been banned?

A possibility is, of course, that you simply posted your comment because you saw an opportunity to advertise nests for sale. You will, no doubt, be aware that advertising for sale is prohibited on the Meeroo website.

Alternatively, you're one of the many perpetual flamers and whingers that seem to plague the Meeroo Blog and Forums; always expressing "disgust" and threatening to leave but, unfortunately, never actually leaving.

Either way, in my view, it serves you right that you've had your come-uppence.

[Kylie Jaxxon]

sigh...I am so not with it on the fads of SL :smileysad:

[Ceka Cianci]

i've seen threads where horse breeders have had thier horses taken like that as well..

I can see if someone were to complain about something and not be allowed to purchase anymore..

but  they shouldn't have the poswer to take back what was sold to you ..not unless it was at fair market value or atleast a total refund..

it's theft otherwise..i don't care how much you irritated anyone..what is paid for is paid for..

this is the area that LL needs to have things able to be AR'd..imagine if all creators did this..

those scripts were really made for creators of builds that were taking part payment or payment at the end of the project..if payment wasn't received then they just blew them up..

now they are used for this crap..bleh

i would still AR them anyways just to see where it goes..

 

[Ian Undercroft]

With respect Ceka, what you say is nonsense.

The Meeroos ToS gives you licence you access to the product and database. If you breach that licence, it may be terminated at the instance of the licensor. The meeroos will then "poof" because they are, for their continued existence, dependant on access to the database. The right of a licensor to terminate a licence in specified circumstances is a basic and elementary element of the law of contract.

[PeterCanessa Oh]

I'm replying to Dana as she has made the 'general' case: For whatever reason this kind of functionality is included, it amounts to nothing more than a "bait and switch"

As such I'd say it's not a matter for AR or at least not for AR alone.  There isn't much LL can do that will punish people who abuse abilities like this.  What I mean is that, at most, LL can remove the privilege of access to SL by banning people.  If you want them really punished you need to take it to RL.

Those affected need to launch a RL class action against the creators of these objects.  The usual response to that, of course, is "it's not worth hiring lawyers" - in which case this is simply inter-resident drama.  Either people care enough to do something real about it or they don't.  If they don't then the creators will just continue to get away with it.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Ian Undercroft wrote:

With respect Ceka, what you say is nonsense.

The Meeroos ToS gives you licence you access to the product and database. If you breach that licence, it may be terminated at the instance of the licensor. The meeroos will then "poof" because they are, for their continued existence, dependant on access to the database. The right of a licensor to terminate a licence in specified circumstances is a basic and elementary element of the law of contract.

---

if it doesn't clash with LL's TOS then thats not a problem..if it does then it's a problem..

does their tos violate the content users licens rights in LL's tos?

i don't know..i don't own meroo's lol

either i am reading it wrong or it doesn't sound like they are allowed to do it by LL's tos.

sounds like they can delete anything on their account..but not on any others..

if their contract is instide SL then it's as valid as a profile stating those silly disclaimers about IM's being shared..that is if it breaks the TOS..

i'm just gonna bold a couple parts that  caught my interest  to see what those really mean hehehe

 

7.3 You grant certain Content licenses to users of Second Life by submitting your Content to publicly accessible areas of the Service.

You agree that by uploading, publishing, or submitting any Content to any publicly accessible areas of the Service, you hereby grant each user of Second Life a non-exclusive license to access the User Content through the Service, and to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Content In-World or otherwise on the Service solely as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service under these Terms of Service. This license is referred to as the "User Content License," and the Content being licensed is referred to as "User Content."

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"Your interactions with the Service" may include use of the Second Life permissions system and the copy, modify, and transfer settings for indicating how other users may use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, or perform your Content In-World subject to these Terms of Service. Any agreement you make with other users relating to use or access to your Content must be consistent with these Terms of Service, and no such agreement can abrogate, nullify, void or modify these Terms of Service.

You acknowledge that when you receive a User Content License you receive only licensing and use rights: You therefore do not acquire ownership of any copies of the Content, or transfer of any copyright or other Intellectual Property Rights in the Content. You acknowledge that with respect to the use of the words "Buy" and "Sell" as used in this Agreement and throughout the Service in the context of User Content: (a) the term "Sell" means "to grant a User Content License in exchange for Linden dollars or other consideration in accordance with the Terms of Service," (b) the term "Buy" or "Purchase" means "to receive a User Content License in exchange for Linden dollars or other consideration in accordance with the Terms of Service," and © the terms "Buyer," "Seller," "Sale" and "Purchaser" and similar terms have corresponding meanings to their root terms. This includes User Content that may be Bought or Sold on the Second Life Marketplace web site.

 

7.5 You may delete copies of your Content from the Service, and the licenses you have granted for the deleted copies will terminate with certain limitations.

You may delete copies or instances of your Content that you have displayed In-World or that are in your Account inventory through the normal functionality of the Service, including by emptying the trash folder in your Account inventory. In such event, the licenses granted by you in this Section 7 shall terminate in the manner provided below, but only for those particular copies or instances of Content that you have deleted from the Service.

You acknowledge that this termination will not apply to any other copies or instances of the same Content that you have not specifically deleted from the Service, including without limitation those that may be displayed elsewhere In-World and those that may be in the Account inventories of other users to whom you transferred copies.

You acknowledge that the Snapshot and Machinima Content License granted to Linden Lab and other users with respect to your Content will survive any such termination.

You also acknowledge that the Service Content License granted to Linden Lab with respect to your Content will survive any such termination solely as follows to permit Linden Lab: (i) to retain server copies of particular instances of your Content, including copies stored in connection with back-up, debugging, and testing procedures; and (ii) to enable the exercise of the licenses granted in this Section 7 for any other copies or instances of the same Content that you have not specifically deleted from the Service, including those that may be displayed elsewhere In-World or exist in other users' Account inventories.





 

[Venus Petrov]

I am not an owner of any type of breedable but it sounds like the jist of this tale of woe is to make sure you read and understand any agreement upon purchase, abide by the rules set forth by the seller, and enjoy your toys.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Venus Petrov wrote:

I am not an owner of any type of breedable but it sounds like the jist of this tale of woe is to make sure you read and understand any agreement upon purchase, abide by the rules set forth by the seller, and enjoy your toys.

---

mine would be dead in no time if they depended on me in world..i would get banned for meeroo cruilty..

some weeks momma may just not come home hehehehe

[MasterEdward Avril]

---

Cinnamon Lohner wrote:

Banned from what??  Your post is very unclear in that regard.  Banned from logging into SL?  Banned from owning meeroos.  What exactly is the nature of your ban?

--Cinn

---

They banned me from the game.. which is fine with me.. no biggie.. HOWEVER, stealing content that I PURCHASED and WAS IN MY POSSESION.. is against the LL TOS.

 

 

[MasterEdward Avril]

---

Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

Which "open forum" was that? The one they pay to maintain? Or was it one of their inworld groups? I don't know that I would really consider either an "open forum."

In any case, if you're so "fed up with meeroos," why do you care?

---

Read the entire story, sir.  I had saved TWO meeroos, for my RL Daughter, because she loved them.. they were at least 100 days old.. and I had planned on putting costumes on them FOR HER.  However, after banning me from the game fraudulently, they then STOLE those two meeroos as well.. which I PAID FOR, FED, AND MEEPETTED.. FOR MY DAUGHTER.

[MasterEdward Avril]

---

Dana Hickman wrote:

---

Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

In any case, if you're so "fed up with meeroos," why do you care?

---

 

Probably because it's not about the breedable itself so much as the fact that creators are allowed to script in ways to return, delete, or cripple a valid purchased product at their own whim,

without

having to clearly and blatantly notify the customer before purchase. For whatever reason this kind of functionality is included, it amounts to nothing more than a "bait and switch" when it's used for ANY single thing other than post-copy (copybot) protection. Best advice is to research more before purchasing these kind of heavily scripted items, and to never purchase any ones that include a hidden recall, cripple, or delete function that the creator can mess with. OPs like this one are how others find out about these things, and because the creator's certainly not going to tip his hand on stuff like this.

---

That is exactly the point.  To my knowledge, this is against the LL TOS.

[MasterEdward Avril]

---

Ian Undercroft wrote:

I note that you make reference to having purchased one of the novelty Halloween costumes. When they were announced on the official Meeroo Blog you posted by way of comment:

Just an fyi.. I am disgusted.. so.. if anyone wants to buy my entire inventory

of meeroo nests, AND my lives.. including Koi, Cales, Cinders, traits, more..

around 200 or more.. IM MasterEdward Avril in world asap... before they go poof

Yours appeared a lone voice of dissent. The "disgust" you expressed was unreasoned and appeared to me illogical. It now appears that you hypocritically went out and purchased that which you expressed "disgust" about. If, as appears, you were intending to "poof" your meeroos, why are you now bothered that you have been banned?

A possibility is, of course, that you simply posted your comment because you saw an opportunity to advertise nests for sale. You will, no doubt, be aware that advertising for sale is prohibited on the Meeroo website.

Alternatively, you're one of the many perpetual flamers and whingers that seem to plague the Meeroo Blog and Forums; always expressing "disgust" and threatening to leave but, unfortunately, never actually leaving.

Either way, in my view, it serves you right that you've had your come-uppence.

---

I suggest you pay attention, and not make "guesses" as to the reasoning.  For you to say "serves me right" is simply irresponsible on your part.  What you are saying is.. if you say something negative about the company..  "serves them right" to steal content that YOU PAID FOR.. and ban you from the game.  Remind me not to do business with you.

[MasterEdward Avril]

---

Ceka Cianci wrote:

i've seen threads where horse breeders have had thier horses taken like that as well..

I can see if someone were to complain about something and not be allowed to purchase anymore..

but  they shouldn't have the poswer to take back what was sold to you ..not unless it was at fair market value or atleast a total refund..

it's theft otherwise..i don't care how much you irritated anyone..what is paid for is paid for..

this is the area that LL needs to have things able to be AR'd..imagine if all creators did this..

those scripts were really made for creators of builds that were taking part payment or payment at the end of the project..if payment wasn't received then they just blew them up..

now they are used for this crap..bleh

i would still AR them anyways just to see where it goes..

 

---

I have AR'd them.  For all breaks in the TOS, which.. they have.  Stealing content that I paid for.. is just that.. STEALING.. and that is illegal ANYWHERE.

[MasterEdward Avril]

---

Ian Undercroft wrote:

With respect Ceka, what you say is nonsense.

The Meeroos ToS gives you licence you access to the product and database. If you breach that licence, it may be terminated at the instance of the licensor. The meeroos will then "poof" because they are, for their continued existence, dependant on access to the database. The right of a licensor to terminate a licence in specified circumstances is a basic and elementary element of the law of contract.

---

Have you read that TOS, sir?  I have.  I did not break ANY TOS, yet they felt the right to do what they did.

[MasterEdward Avril]

---

PeterCanessa Oh wrote:

I'm replying to Dana as she has made the 'general' case: For whatever reason this kind of functionality is included, it amounts to nothing more than a "bait and switch"

As such I'd say it's not a matter for AR or at least not for AR alone.  There isn't much LL can do that will punish people who abuse abilities like this.  What I mean is that, at most, LL can remove the privilege of access to SL by banning people.  If you want them really punished you need to take it to RL.

Those affected need to launch a RL class action against the creators of these objects.  The usual response to that, of course, is "it's not worth hiring lawyers" - in which case this is simply inter-resident drama.  Either people care enough to do something real about it or they don't.  If they don't then the creators will just continue to get away with it.

---

IF necessary, this will go to RL, I assure you.

[MasterEdward Avril]

---

Venus Petrov wrote:

I am not an owner of any type of breedable but it sounds like the jist of this tale of woe is to make sure you read and understand any agreement upon purchase, abide by the rules set forth by the seller, and enjoy your toys.

---

Their TOS states.. "altering scripts.. etc"  Which I have not done.  EVER.

[Venus Petrov]

Then do not waste your time here, sir.  File an Abuse Report.

[MasterEdward Avril]

---

Venus Petrov wrote:

Then do not waste your time here, sir.  File an Abuse Report.

---

Which I have done, but I wanted others to know the "Abuse of power" they posess, and use, at WHIM.

[Melita Magic]

I'm sorry to hear that.

Meeroos are a big investment. I express myself there as well although I hope they wouldn't see it as negative since I do also say many positive things, and am active and proactive in the meeroo community.

It is very scary to me that my investment could just POOF. I do not think that should ever happen, once something has been purchased. At least give the person an opportunity to give their belongings to someone else, or to sell them. If they want to stop them posting there, or playing in future that is another thing and within their rights I guess. But, taking belongings seems above that.

Can you appeal your ban there?

[Ian Undercroft]

You say that I don't know the full story. That may be because you seem incapable or unwilling to tell us what that might be. Having re-read your post here, my impression is that we have selective snippets. I should also add that I have searched against your name on the Meeroo website and your only post (at least your only post now visible) is that which you claim got you banned and which I earlier set out in full. What had caused you to express disgust in that post? Had the issue which led to you being banned already arisen? If so, how can you claim the post expressing disgust got you banned?