Madelaine McMasters Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Carole Franizzi wrote: I would not enjoy a conversation with a nuclear physicist nor a plumber about their field of knowledge as neither interest me (nor could be understood by me). What?! Aren't you at all curious to know why plumbers make more money than nuclear physicists? Sit with me a while and we'll disuss engineering and whatever it is you think you do for a living. The first one to get bored wins? Or loses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Carole Franizzi wrote: Seriously? I've heard claims that there are prejudices against short avies, tall avies, child avies, furries, vampires, subs, doms, nekos, etc., and this thread is about "prejudices" against the ugly ones....so tell me - if the pretty ones are also victims of prejudice, exactly what avatars are not subjected to discrimination, because, at this point, no other type comes to mind? Don't you think that it's truer to say that some people prefer certain avatars over others? In which case, we're discussing personal preferences and not instances of discrimination. "Prejudice" is a serious matter - I think we'd need to talk to a victim of RL racial (for example) discrimination to hear exactly what that entails and if it compares to these SL "cases". Your right, there's a huge difference between not liking someone because of the way they look and liking the way someone looks so much that it makes you feel too inferior to them to strike up a simple conversation. Equating that to some sort of prejudice is just absurd. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carole Franizzi Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Madelaine McMasters wrote: Carole Franizzi wrote: I would not enjoy a conversation with a nuclear physicist nor a plumber about their field of knowledge as neither interest me (nor could be understood by me). What?! Aren't you at all curious to know why plumbers make more money than nuclear physicists? Sit with me a while and we'll disuss engineering and whatever it is you think you do for a living. The first one to get bored wins? Or loses? Missy, I'll have you know I do a luuuuuuuuverly job in RL - one which I enjoy so much that whatever problems I might have, are instantly forgotten the moment I start working, Having said that...it's notoriously badly-paid so your point about plumbers is taken.... I'd be a plumber in my next the life, were it not for fact it would ruin my nails. Engineering? That's to do with engines, innit? Hell babes, I can't even change the tyre on my car, let alone understand how the engine works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carole Franizzi Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Carole Franizzi wrote: Seriously? I've heard claims that there are prejudices against short avies, tall avies, child avies, furries, vampires, subs, doms, nekos, etc., and this thread is about "prejudices" against the ugly ones....so tell me - if the pretty ones are also victims of prejudice, exactly what avatars are not subjected to discrimination, because, at this point, no other type comes to mind? Don't you think that it's truer to say that some people prefer certain avatars over others? In which case, we're discussing personal preferences and not instances of discrimination. "Prejudice" is a serious matter - I think we'd need to talk to a victim of RL racial (for example) discrimination to hear exactly what that entails and if it compares to these SL "cases". Your right, there's a huge difference between not liking someone because of the way they look and liking the way someone looks so much that it makes you feel too inferior to them to strike up a simple conversation. Equating that to some sort of prejudice is just absurd. ...Dres I'm well aware that some people dislike and are perplexed by my choice in avatar. I know because they've taken the trouble to IM me to inform me of their dislike/perplexity. But, claim that I'm a victim of prejudice???? Noooo! I reckon that people who (seriously) talk about being discrimnated against in SL need to get a grip and brush up on their history. You said it - absurd. Utterly absurb. Usburb. Udsburb. What you said. PS excuse the bolding but the formatting thing ain't working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 There is a reason why Mute turns avatars into nondescript, grey people .... and why Phoenix and Firestorm have a Derender feature. I don't even question if something offends me, I just mute/derender and forget. So far? No avatar I have seen has crossed that visual line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Carole Franizzi wrote: Missy, I'll have you know I do a luuuuuuuuverly job in RL - one which I enjoy so much that whatever problems I might have, are instantly forgotten the moment I start working Engineering? That's to do with engines, innit? Nooooo, engineering is an endeavor in which whatever problems I might have are instantly created the moment I start working! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwalyphi Korpov Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ima Rang Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Very interesting. I don't feel discomfort when I see people in wheel chairs or with colostomy bags, or amputees, but that could be because I grew up with a chronically ill father and spent a great deal of time in hospitals growing up. We also had a neighbor that was a veteran that had only one arm. I recall our first meeting when I was a young child, he told us to just call him monkey Joe, He swung himself everywhere like a monkey and he is a funny, goofy goober type of man with a wonderful sense of humor. He has been in a wheel chair for a quite a few years now. I don't recall if I was shocked or uncomfortable when I first met him, I was too young I guess. I wonder though, for individuals that do choose to present a visual representation of their disability or physical condition if it is similar to my own inability to "feel" right if I bop around SL with huge tits and volumous booty...because it simply is not my RL physical build. I have always been thin with more of what I consider a boyish shape (no hips). When I try on shapes that have a shapely hip and bottom, it "feels" uncomfortable. Strange huh? It took me 3 years in SL to wear a hair color that was not representative of my own...what I wear now is stil not too far off from my own, just a bit darker/longer. Perhaps it is a combination of attention seekers as well as those of us who have trouble connecting to a toon that does not as accurately as is possible in SL, represent our human form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celestiall Nightfire Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Very interesting topic Ishy. I agree that an avatar purposely designed to look like fecal matter is one that is trying to "grief". I too would have seen that as something undesirable to a beach location where people go to relax and or engage in flirting. (not sure what happens on your beaches...so just guessing here) Probably silly kids, and they wanted to get a reaction. As you're the sim owner and are trying to cultivate a certain atmosphere on your sim, then banning them is fine. The rest of your OP I cannot relate to. I have no problem with avatars in wheelchairs, amputees, or any other physical RL impairment being used. Nor, do I any problems relating to people in RL with various physical handicaps. My first two years in college, I roomed with and was an assistant to students who were quadriplegics. I bathed them, dressed them, toileted them, and got them ready for their day on campus. I lived with them, and assisted in all physical regards. Later, and for many years, I worked in nursing homes and hospitals. I've cared for all manner of bodies both alive and dead, and all ages. From the very elderly to children and babies. I worked at a children's hospital on the Burn Unit. Do, you know what it's like to be with badly burned children? You have to treat them the same as any other child, and you cannot let their physical appearance affect you. So an avatar in a wheelchair? No problem. An avatar with a colostomy bag? No problem. I've changed quite a few colostomy bags in my day, and the people who have them are already sensitive enough about their situation, so why would I want them to feel bad about a medical condition? I would have no problem with seeing any RL physical condition being displayed as a SL avatar. Ishy, you have a very lovely avatar. Yet, there are people who might find *your* avatar to be offensive. Think about it. Ugliness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayalily Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 No, not absurd. Prejudice in this example of the word: any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable. When I see a tall dark and handsome and super rich looking male avatar I have preconceived notions of "I'm not good enough"... "He'll never give me the time of day"... "I'll never measure up"...that sort of thing. It's a preconceived feeling that comes from insecurity, but I do definately notice I feel much more comfortable just talking to a regular every day looking avatar or even one that is a little odd. It's weird how I have this pre-judging feeling towards the ultra handsome avatars. It's kind of like I over look them before I even get to know them or give them a chance. That is a prejudice on my part, most definately. And, I need to get over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carole Franizzi Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Are we going to play Sematicopoly then? Okay, my turn to roll the dice. Prejudice – to pre-judge, to make assumptions, to form negative opinions about someone without having adequate information about them. Hardly the same thing as not liking something. I don’t like oysters. I don’t like the colour pink. I don’t like overly hot climates. I don’t particularly like blue eyes. I am happy I don’t have blue eyes. I am not usually attracted to people with blue eyes. That does not mean I think all people with blue eyes are stupid, ugly, uncultured, bad at sports. Pretty avies are not everybody’s cup of tea. Some people prefer having a funny avie. An old avie. A fat avie. A poo-avie. That is personal preference. Some people are homophobic. Such people assume they know the characteristics (this is where the pre-judging bit comes in) of the person just because they are homosexual. People with a homophobic prejudice might think that all homosexuals have annoying lisps, wear pink cashmere sweaters and will jump on them even if they themselves are wholly unattractive. This is prejudice. See the difference? I have my old, ugly, fat avie named Carole. I think she’s great. I prefer her to the hawt babe type. However, I do have a couple of super-hawt babe avies. Does my preference for Carole over my other ones mean I’m prejudiced against hawt babe avies? If it does, it means I’m prejudiced against myself. Which, frankly, I can’t even begin to get my head round (I am making pre-conceptions about myself, despite not knowing me, the person, as an individual. ????!!!!!?????) The phenomenon of prejudice IS serious business. Where it does exist, it’s a dreadful thing. You think it silly to associate the term “prejudice” with only serious matters? Well…since term includes the plight of women through the ages, of blacks, homosexuals, Jews, Muslims, of the disabled, I find it slightly offensive to correlate the term with something as banal as an on-line game avatar. It’s doubly ridiculous in the context of SL since, in my three years here, I’ve heard it claimed by every single avatar category which exists that they are victims of discrimination. What does it mean, oh wise one, when every single category of being claims to be victim of prejudice? Might I suggest that it simply means that there is not one single type of avatar which is liked by everyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carole Franizzi Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Mayalily wrote: No, not absurd. Prejudice in this example of the word: any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable. When I see a tall dark and handsome and super rich looking male avatar I have preconceived notions of "I'm not good enough"... "He'll never give me the time of day"... "I'll never measure up"...that sort of thing. It's a preconceived feeling that comes from insecurity, but I do definately notice I feel much more comfortable just talking to a regular every day looking avatar or even one that is a little odd. . How can you have a preconceived notion about yourself? The fact that you know yourself means that formulating preconceptions (“pre” as in “before” - in this case, “before knowing yourself”) about yourself is impossible. What you are referring to is an inferiority complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carole Franizzi Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Madelaine McMasters wrote: Carole Franizzi wrote: Missy, I'll have you know I do a luuuuuuuuverly job in RL - one which I enjoy so much that whatever problems I might have, are instantly forgotten the moment I start working Engineering? That's to do with engines, innit? Nooooo, engineering is an endeavor in which whatever problems I might have are instantly created the moment I start working! Yeah, but, let's focus on the important stuff - can you or can't you change a tyre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloise Baily Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I bloody love it when you talk sense Carole. I have never understood this. When I take photos, if there is something I don't like in the background, I move my cam. If these people aren't hurting anyone then look away. It's rude to stare anyway. Ishy, I am surprised by you being the person to post this. I would have thought that you of all people would be able to allow people to be "their imagination" even if they are only 12, or Ca. stoners, and even if they are only doing it for the sh*ts and lulz. At the end of the day, it's your viewer, your cam view. The only thing SL provides that I would wish for in RL is wings. I wanna fly dammit! but other than that then really, life is too short to get upset by a walking turd when most of you laugh at Ren & Stimpey or Family Guy no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloise Baily Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I hate it when you argue though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloise Baily Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Elle Benusconi wrote: Daniel S. Hamermesh, a professor of economics at the University of Texas, Austin and author of a new book "Beauty Pays" wrote in an op-ed piece in yesterdays New York Times that "Ugly People" are subject to discrimination based on their looks. Dr Hamermesh advocates ugly people being covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act due to the disadvantages they face, both financially and socially, and society must be made to be less judgmental about a persons looks. Upon consideration of the article I was left with two conclusions. First, soon we will see the formation of the "Ugly Lobby" And second, lawyers will latch on to this, and a new group of lawyers specializing in "Ugly Discrimination" cases will flood our over burdened court with this sort of case. Ironically, the news was also covering the arrest of reputed actress Daryl Hannah in front of the White House yesterday, whom I've always thought looks like Abe Lincoln with blond hair. Just thought I'd take the opportunity to throw that in before it's against the law. Funny that. I always think Rene Zelwegger looks like she's had her face pushed in from the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carole Franizzi Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 OMG! OMG! Eloise!!!!!! Too tickled to see your name to say anything else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloise Baily Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Carole Franizzi wrote: OMG! OMG! Eloise!!!!!! Too tickled to see your name to say anything else! /me salutes. Ay oop chuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 /me sends a hello to the ever beautiful Carole. PS I wanted to use the word *lovely* but the Lithium software threw an error: ERROR 173LWL PERMISSION DENIED ILLEGAL USAGE OF LWL RESERVED KEYWORDS THIS ACCOUNT IS REPORTED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloise Baily Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Storm you spelt it wrong. It's Luuurvely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ima Rang Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Eloise Baily wrote: Elle Benusconi wrote: Daniel S. Hamermesh, a professor of economics at the University of Texas, Austin and author of a new book "Beauty Pays" wrote in an op-ed piece in yesterdays New York Times that "Ugly People" are subject to discrimination based on their looks. Dr Hamermesh advocates ugly people being covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act due to the disadvantages they face, both financially and socially, and society must be made to be less judgmental about a persons looks. Upon consideration of the article I was left with two conclusions. First, soon we will see the formation of the "Ugly Lobby" And second, lawyers will latch on to this, and a new group of lawyers specializing in "Ugly Discrimination" cases will flood our over burdened court with this sort of case. Ironically, the news was also covering the arrest of reputed actress Daryl Hannah in front of the White House yesterday, whom I've always thought looks like Abe Lincoln with blond hair. Just thought I'd take the opportunity to throw that in before it's against the law. Funny that. I always think Rene Zelwegger looks like she's had her face pushed in from the middle. Haha! I have always thought she looked like she constantly smelled a turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I bet Daria would have a mouthful to say about 'too ugly'. And, I would read every word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Ima Rang wrote: Eloise Baily wrote: Funny that. I always think Rene Zelwegger looks like she's had her face pushed in from the middle. Haha! I have always thought she looked like she constantly smelled a turd. Lol... I'm glad I'm not the only one. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Singer Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Elle Benusconi wrote: Upon consideration of the article I was left with two conclusions. First, soon we will see the formation of the "Ugly Lobby" And second, lawyers will latch on to this, and a new group of lawyers specializing in "Ugly Discrimination" cases will flood our over burdened court with this sort of case. Seems, in order for that to happen, a person would have to be legally declared "ugly"... can you imagine?... lol. ...Dres dres...I can't believe those words came out of your mouth.... think about what you just said for a moment... if doesn't come to you then play word replacement. @whoever said "intent" yes, exactly.... some people make their intent clear... some not so much.... those I tend to ask (and err on the side of innocence) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Mayalily wrote: No, not absurd. Prejudice in this example of the word: any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable. When I see a tall dark and handsome and super rich looking male avatar I have preconceived notions of "I'm not good enough"... "He'll never give me the time of day"... "I'll never measure up"...that sort of thing. It's a preconceived feeling that comes from insecurity, but I do definately notice I feel much more comfortable just talking to a regular every day looking avatar or even one that is a little odd. It's weird how I have this pre-judging feeling towards the ultra handsome avatars. It's kind of like I over look them before I even get to know them or give them a chance. That is a prejudice on my part, most definately. And, I need to get over that. Dictionary definitions sometimes fail to capture the true implications of a word in regular, everyday use. I mean honestly, how often do you hear prejudice used in reference to something favorable? What you're talking about is your own insecurity... just because you can twist that around in your mind to fit the definition of prejudice, doesn't mean it actually makes any sense... hence, absurd. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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