Selling Sex Beds in Moderate Land

[Mylar]

I've been to a lot of furniture stores on moderate land that have sex beds out on display. A couple of these are even featured in the showcase. I was wondering if anyone knows the official policy on this. I have a bed I made that I would like to include sex animations in, but my shop is on moderate land, so I currently only have a few cuddle animations in it and made it modable, but I know people are looking for beds with a full set of animations in them.

I'm not really interested in what shop owners are getting away with, I'd like to know what the official policy is. If anyone knows, or could point me in the right direction to find out, it would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Thanks.

[Sassy Romano]

As far as I can still interpret, this is ok as long as the items/shop is not advertised in search.  It can be discovered but as soon as you promote the sale of such items in search then it needs to be adult.  Roll on the removal of M and just give us back G and A.

[Chelsea Malibu]

I understand the same as Sassy stated and have in fact been over this with SexGen.  We set SexGen as Adult since we allowed residents to test our stuff in the nude as long as they didn't emote in public chat.

You are allowed to have SexBed on Mature land as long as it is on a private parcel and out of public view (in a Home, etc.) but not in public.

When a store is in public and when you see sex furniture on display in a public Mature store, you will more than likely also see a sign posting no sex or no nudity.  The policy as it has been relayed to us is that Sex Animations are OK, but Sex Acts are not.

[Phil Deakins]

A correction for you:-

Using sex animations (e.g. in furniture) in stores on Mature land (Moderate in V2 isn't it?) is perfectly ok as long as the participants don't display any sex bits. It's necessary because people need to test stuff to know whether or not they want to buy it. That was clarified by LL during the introduction of Adult land.

[Phil Deakins]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

As far as I can still interpret, this is ok as long as the items/shop is not advertised in search.  It can be discovered but as soon as you promote the sale of such items in search then it needs to be adult.  Roll on the removal of M and just give us back G and A.

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To the best of my knowledge, it's ok to set them to show in search, but it's not ok to have a sex venue on mature land, whether it shows in search or not.

[Sassy Romano]

Adult

The Adult designation applies to Second Life regions that host, conduct, or display content that is sexually explicit, intensely violent, or depicts illicit drug use. A region must be designated Adult if it hosts, advertises, or publicly promotes:

•Representations of intensely violent acts, for example depicting death, torture, dismemberment or other severe bodily harm, whether or not photo-realistic (meaning that images either are or cannot be distinguished from a photograph).

•Photo-realistic nudity.

•Expressly sexually themed content, spaces or activities, whether or not photo-realistic. We broadly define what is "sexually themed" to include any sexually oriented activities and conduct.

Marketplace is more specific and under adult content states:-

 

• Content or items intended for use in, or primarily associated with, erotic or sexual roleplay.

Erotic roleplay?  What's that?  Does that include lingerie otherwise what purpose does it serve?  However, good news, it's ok to sell non-explicit sex animations under Moderate as long as they're rubbish, see here:-

 

• Intimate avatar animations, as long as they do not depict sexual activity that is explicit or highly realistic.

[Chelsea Malibu]

Sorry, I can't seem to find any reference to "Bits" in any policy and it seems that Sassy has found the proper nomenclature.

 

BTW Sassy, are you on the LL Adult Advisory Group?  If not let me know, we need to get you an invite into that forum.

[Sassy Romano]

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Chelsea Malibu wrote:

BTW Sassy, are you on the LL Adult Advisory Group?  If not let me know, we need to get you an invite into that forum.

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Don't think so, I don't get out much

[Phil Deakins]

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Chelsea Malibu wrote:

Sorry, I can't seem to find any reference to "Bits" in any policy and it seems that Sassy has found the proper nomenclature.

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I think thnat "bits" was a perfectly suitable word

[Phil Deakins]

The marketplace isn't anything to do with this "land" discussion. What I wrote in my first post in this thread is correct; i.e. that the selling of sex furniture and animations on Mature land is permitted, and that the using of sex animations in stores on mature land, for the purpose of deciding whether or not to buy it, is permitted, provided that avatars don't reveal any "naughty bits". It was all made very clear by LL in advance of Adult land being created. Nothing has changed since then.

[Faithless Babii]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

As far as I can still interpret, this is ok as long as the items/shop is not advertised in search.  It can be discovered but as soon as you promote the sale of such items in search then it needs to be adult.  Roll on the removal of M and just give us back G and A.

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I dont want to be G or Adult..I prefer Mature..and I hope they keep it that way. No thanks to teenagers on my Sims :matte-motes-big-grin:

[Sassy Romano]

The definition of adult content makes no exclusion or implied exception for "as long as they don't display bits".  This was the subject of another forum thread, that the content of the meetings and statements from the likes of Blondin Linden who stated such has now been condensed into vague blurb, subject to interpretation.

Nobody is saying you're wrong, nor that it's right,  One can only take what is published by LL (that which I provided earlier) and make their own subjective interpretation.  Likelihood is that nobody would complain, if they do, then it's up to LL and how they choose to moderate their platform.

[Phil Deakins]

The text that you copied and pasted here doesn't state what I said explicitly. I'm referring to what Blondin stated explicitly in the public discussions at the time leading up to the introduction of adult land; i.e. that it's ok to use sex animations in stores for the purpose of deciding whether or not to buy, provided that no "naughty bits" are uncovered. Nothing has changed since then, and what I said about sex animations in stores on mature land is correct.

Incidentally, I've used the words "bits" etc. merely to avoid using the word "nude" or "naked", the first of which was used in this thread. The use of those latter words can be taken to mean that it's ok to do sex animations as long as no av is nude; e.g. wearing a scarf, hat or t-shirt, but nothing covering those "bits",. Of course, whilst it's perfectly ok to do nude sex in private on mature land, it's not ok to do nude sex is public places, such as stores. My choice of words meant that it's not ok to do sex animations in stores even if the avs are not nude but have their "bits" uncovered.

[Sassy Romano]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

The text that you copied and pasted here doesn't state what I said explicitly. I'm referring to what Blondin stated explicitly in the public discussions at the time leading up to the introduction of adult land;

---

 

Yes that's my point entirely and that of the other thread.  There is no longer ANY reference to the comments made by Blondin or any of the others.  Those comments are now effectively wiped from LL's memory so something has most definitely changed.  Comments by departed Lindens may hold no value.

Therefore, the only remaining definitive reference IS the text I pasted and that's the one which will be used no doubt in any disputes and none of us can presume to know the fine points of what is and what is not allowed in the absence of clearer definitions.  As with any laws/rules, they change over time, claiming what was once true may no longer be the case.  It's all up to LL.

 

[Ciaran Laval]

You can sell sex beds on moderate rated land and you can set the parcel to show in search, you can't invite people to get nekkid on said sex beds in the store.

[Phil Deakins]

There is still reference to what Blondin told us all. As far as I know, what he told us was never put into a more formal setting like the text you pasted, but it still exists for all to see, so it's not wiped from LL's memory at all. The formal setting doesn't get into specific details but, in answer to specific questions, Blondin gave specific answers and that's still good enough. Nothing has changed.

[Mylar]

well this turned into a lively conversation, and an interesting read :matte-motes-big-grin: Thank you, everyone, for your input. I went ahead and added the animations this morning, and I'll just be ready to yank the bed out if there are any problems. 

[Sassy Romano]

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Ciaran Laval wrote:

You can sell sex beds on moderate rated land and you can set the parcel to show in search, you can't invite people to get nekkid on said sex beds in the store.

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Yes but it it cannot use adult keywords which are found by search.  At that point the region must be adult.

[Sassy Romano]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

There is still reference to what Blondin told us all. As far as I know, what he told us was never put into a more formal setting like the text you pasted, but it still exists for all to see, so it's not wiped from LL's memory at all. The formal setting doesn't get into specific details but, in answer to specific questions, Blondin gave specific answers and that's still good enough. Nothing has changed.

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Do you have a link to that, something official from LL?  Again, this information that was once posted, office hour logs have now been removed (apparently).  Unofficial quotes and postings aren't quite the same so quoted text (easily manipulated) in a now closed forum doesn't really carry the same weight.

Blondin doesn't work at LL anymore, not sure if you're aware?

The definitive cited text is all that now exists in an official form from LL, personal judgement beyond the scope of that remains just that, personal judgement against any interpretation that LL makes, it's that simple to me.  Doesn't bother me either way what someone else chooses to do *shrugs*

[Couldbe Yue]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

The text that you copied and pasted here doesn't state what I said explicitly. I'm referring to what Blondin stated explicitly in the public discussions at the time leading up to the introduction of adult land; i.e. that it's ok to use sex animations in stores for the purpose of deciding whether or not to buy, provided that no "naughty bits" are uncovered. Nothing has changed since then, and what I said about sex animations in stores on mature land is correct.

Incidentally, I've used the words "bits" etc. merely to avoid using the word "nude" or "naked", the first of which was used in this thread. The use of those latter words can be taken to mean that it's ok to do sex animations as long as no av is nude; e.g. wearing a scarf, hat or t-shirt, but nothing covering those "bits",. Of course, whilst it's perfectly ok to do nude sex in private on mature land, it's not ok to do nude sex is public places, such as stores. My choice of words meant that it's not ok to do sex animations in stores even if the avs are not nude but have their "bits" uncovered.

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I always understood it that way as well - no sex, no pink bits and you're fine.

Before the move I had my store reviewed by Blondin and he said I could stay on mature as long as I didn't advertise - meaning not using adult keywords.  which of course made absolutely no sense to me as the idea that a word in a classified was considered so abhorrent yet the item being on sale wasn't, was outside my comprehension and so I moved. 

With hindsight I should have stayed on mature and done what some of the others did and just santised the ads but then in those days I misunderstood LL and assumed a level of consistency and competence that was subsequently proved otherwise.

hey ho

 

[Phil Deakins]

I'm not going looking for the links but you can find it all in the archived forums. It's all still there.

 

A story:-

Soon after the adult land was launched and the deadline for the removal of sex places was passed, someone, who presumably held a grudge, ARed my bots which were on sexbeds for the purpose of demonstrating the animations. There was a male-female pair on one bed, a female on another bed, with the other ball for customers, and a male on third bed, with the other ball for customers. The bots were in the store but behind a wall so they were not in plain sight. They were covered so they didn't show any "bits", and, if that were not enough, no animation could last for more than 30 seconds on those demo beds, so that people would find it difficult to use them for their jollies. When the 30 seconds was up, the animation automatically changed to STAND. The out of plain sight part and the 30 second limit were in place before any adult land was ever mentioned, and I put tops on the female bots because of the adult rules (like the male bots, they already head the other bit covered). None of that was mentioned in the AR, of course.

The first Linden who dealt with the AR simply sent me a warning, and told me to remove the bots, without ever going to see for him/herself so, knowing that it was the wrong decision, I appealed, but the next Linden (it may have been the same one) upheld the decision, also without going to see for him/herself. Through sheer ineptitude, neither of those two discovered that the bots were actually allowed. I know the first one didn't go and look because, if s/he had, s/he wouldn't have left the bots on the beds - s/he would have logged them out. I removed the bots after the first one so the second one wouldn't have been able to see, but I did describe it all in the appeal. The AR Lindens dealt with the AR in the manner of, "The AR sounds about right to me and I can't be bothered checking so, here, have a warning."

So I wrote a notecard to their boss - Harry Linden - explaining it all. I included quotes, with urls, of what Blondin had clearly stated in public. Harry was the only one of them who actually used his brain. He removed the warning and confirmed that the bots were ok. I put the bots back, and they've been there ever since.

It's possible that the first two Lindens didn't know what was and wasn't allowed, but that only speaks to their, or LL's, incompetence.

Nothing has changed since then and the sex furniture in stores, and demo bots, are still allowed on mature land.

Incidentally, it's not the only time that I've found incompetence in the AR team and Harry has been the straight one.

[Blaze Nielsen]

A bed is an inanimate object, just like you see in a furniture store. Where it becomes adult is putting two people on it with their clothes off. We have about 150 beds in our store at Bartlett & Nielsen with no nudity signs around the store as a warning. If we see couples testing the animations, thats fine. When we see them without clothes we show them the exit immediately. Our sims are rated moderate and we don't allow "adult" activity in the nude.