Premium accounts and texture/material fees...

[Gabriel Morico]

So, I've had a premium account for a while now, the main reason I chose to get one when I did was for the free texture uploads. Huge cost saver when it came to creating mesh with multiple texture sets. With the update to PBR, it seems the cost has gone back to normal (10L per texture; 50L per texture for non-premium https://gyazo.com/986b05a0761cf0b24c7b7e9ed1c0c7b2) and the PBR materials are an automatic 40L when uploading the .glb file (created from Substance), even if you're not using an emissive layer, it still charges for it. Unless I'm missing something, the preset to export .glb files required can't be changed. But regardless, if it can be changed or not, why have the prices a) gone back to normal for premium when the website lists them to be free uploads and b) become 5x the cost for non-premium members. 

Hopefully someone can shed some light on this, because it makes no sense to me.

[MadameGloom Ravenwood]

5 minutes ago, Gabriel Morico said:

So, I've had a premium account for a while now, the main reason I chose to get one when I did was for the free texture uploads. Huge cost saver when it came to creating mesh with multiple texture sets. With the update to PBR, it seems the cost has gone back to normal (10L per texture; 50L per texture for non-premium https://gyazo.com/986b05a0761cf0b24c7b7e9ed1c0c7b2) and the PBR materials are an automatic 40L when uploading the .glb file (created from Substance), even if you're not using an emissive layer, it still charges for it. Unless I'm missing something, the preset to export .glb files required can't be changed. But regardless, if it can be changed or not, why have the prices a) gone back to normal for premium when the website lists them to be free uploads and b) become 5x the cost for non-premium members. 

Hopefully someone can shed some light on this, because it makes no sense to me.

The same here, free textures were the main reason I upgraded, it really does save me a fortune,

I would like to know the answer as well.

[Gabriel Morico]

2 minutes ago, MadameGloom Ravenwood said:

The same here, free textures were the main reason I upgraded, it really does save me a fortune,

I would like to know the answer as well.

Yea, I knew I couldn't be the only one. Honestly a great perk, but I really feel bad for the creators who may be just starting or don't have the funds to get a premium account. 200L per texture set is insane. 

[Frionil Fang]

If you're uploading thew newly added 2048x2048 textures they are more expensive and not free even for Premium Plus, but if I recall there was talk about waiving it for PP accounts.

You can also just remove textures that are unused before you upload. Replace your emissive with the default blank texture from the picker and choose a black tint.

[Gabriel Morico]

8 minutes ago, Frionil Fang said:

If you're uploading thew newly added 2048x2048 textures they are more expensive and not free even for Premium Plus, but if I recall there was talk about waiving it for PP accounts.

You can also just remove textures that are unused before you upload. Replace your emissive with the default blank texture from the picker and choose a black tint.

That's a good point, I am using 2048x2048 textures, that's just what I've always used. When you replace the emissive, you mean when you select the individual upload versus the bulk and that dialog comes up showing the textures?

[Frionil Fang]

1 minute ago, Gabriel Morico said:

When you replace the emissive, you mean when you select the individual upload versus the bulk and that dialog comes up showing the textures?

Yeah, you can pick textures into the individual slots before you finalize the upload and remove ones that are unnecessary to save on money. I imagine that wouldn't be possible if you're doing a bulk upload though, haven't tried that with gltf materials.

Textures above 1024x1024 used to be resized automatically to fit the limit, but since the limit is now 2048x2048 they're uploaded as is and more expensively. You'll have to scale them down to an appropriate size yourself, maybe there's an option on export in your program or something.

[Gabriel Morico]

10 minutes ago, Frionil Fang said:

Yeah, you can pick textures into the individual slots before you finalize the upload and remove ones that are unnecessary to save on money. I imagine that wouldn't be possible if you're doing a bulk upload though, haven't tried that with gltf materials.

Textures above 1024x1024 used to be resized automatically to fit the limit, but since the limit is now 2048x2048 they're uploaded as is and more expensively. You'll have to scale them down to an appropriate size yourself, maybe there's an option on export in your program or something.

Oh I see now what you mean now...I didn't realize that limit had been increased. That's an understandable reason for a charge then, obviously more space/processing. But, the premium plus texture perk was the selling point for me. Thank you for the input!  

[Qie Niangao]

Not sure I'm following this thread, but just to make sure, y'all saw this recent blog post, right? I gather the change is still "coming soon" though.

 

 

[Gabriel Morico]

12 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Not sure I'm following this thread, but just to make sure, y'all saw this recent blog post, right? I'm gather the change is still "coming soon" though.

 

 

I hadn't seen that yet. But must be what Frionil Fang was referring to. I just coming back from a short break, excited about the new FS PBR release, but was baffled with the cost during uploading. I didn't even realize the texture limit had been increased. Thank you!

Edited June 24 by Gabriel Morico

[Madi Melodious]

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Not sure I'm following this thread, but just to make sure, y'all saw this recent blog post, right? I gather the change is still "coming soon" though.

 

So, pitchforks and torches did have some kind of effect.   

Interesting. 

[Qie Niangao]

11 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said:

So, pitchforks and torches did have some kind of effect.   

Interesting. 

Hard to read it any other way.

Of course the 1% have the very best torches and wield their pitchforks with practiced polo field aplomb!

[AmeliaJ08]

IMO the people who splurged for PP really, really got... well I can't say it but wow, the stuff that was promised was not delivered. I mean... isn't that like... fraud? I don't know, I assume there's a length terms and conditions that makes it all okay but yeah, they said they were going to offer things for free that they have not supplied.

[Midnoot]

9 hours ago, Gabriel Morico said:

Oh I see now what you mean now...I didn't realize that limit had been increased. That's an understandable reason for a charge then, obviously more space/processing. But, the premium plus texture perk was the selling point for me. Thank you for the input!  

There they go , making premium even more pointless than it used to be. Lolol

[Zalificent Corvinus]

10 hours ago, Gabriel Morico said:

So, I've had a premium account for a while now, the main reason I chose to get one when I did was for the free texture uploads

Premium accounts do NOT get free texture uploads, only Premium Plooooosse.

 

10 hours ago, Gabriel Morico said:

gone back to normal for premium when the website lists them to be free uploads and b) become 5x the cost for non-premium members.

It didn't "go back to nomal" for Premium uses, it went to 10 for Pemium Plooose. And it's 50 ls for Non Plooooose members because 2k resolution textures are 4 times the size of regular 1024 textures, use 4 times the storage space, and 4 times the steaming bandwidth and should be used sparingly.

 

They have already announced that charging Plooosse members 10 LS for a 2k texture is being cancelled.

 

2K Texture pricing also has NOTHIING to do with Gltf PBR uploads, which was based on the assumption that a gltf materials upload would have four 1024 textures in it.

 

 

[Polenth Yue]

8 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Of course the 1% have the very best torches and wield their pitchforks with practiced polo field aplomb!

I'm a tiny. Which means I'm heavily armed with pointy sticks and protest signs. 'Tis tradition.

[Gabriel Morico]

17 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Premium accounts do NOT get free texture uploads, only Premium Plooooosse.

It assumed it was kind of self explanatory I could only be talking about Prem+, since it's the only one that offered free texture uploads.

 

17 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

2K Texture pricing also has NOTHIING to do with Gltf PBR uploads, which was based on the assumption that a gltf materials upload would have four 1024 textures in it.

Yea, I understand that now, like I mentioned above. I wasn't aware the size limit even increased to begin with, just mistakenly tied the increase to the PBR update. 

[SylviElle Zaftig]

Sigh...thanks for letting us know the changes. I just booted up my PBR FS and saw that indeed it's 40L for a 2048 upload. All the clothing I make has a 15 texture/color HUD + normal spec + HUD tex + vendor tex = 190L...with 2048 it's 760L...I sell my items for normally less than 350L for a fatpack. WTF IS THIS!

Will there be a marked difference between 1024 vs 2048 textures? I mean REALLY marked difference (cuz atm, i'm not seeing any)? Also the gfx load in a crowded club with everyone wearing upwards of 10 - 20 2048 dpi textures? gahhhhh!! >.<

PS. have been on the normal Premium since 05. *bangs head on her kb*

[Zalificent Corvinus]

14 minutes ago, SylviElle Zaftig said:

I mean REALLY marked difference

Yes, they take four times as long to stream, decode and load.

 

[Gabriel Morico]

49 minutes ago, SylviElle Zaftig said:

Sigh...thanks for letting us know the changes. I just booted up my PBR FS and saw that indeed it's 40L for a 2048 upload. All the clothing I make has a 15 texture/color HUD + normal spec + HUD tex + vendor tex = 190L...with 2048 it's 760L...I sell my items for normally less than 350L for a fatpack. WTF IS THIS!

Will there be a marked difference between 1024 vs 2048 textures? I mean REALLY marked difference (cuz atm, i'm not seeing any)? Also the gfx load in a crowded club with everyone wearing upwards of 10 - 20 2048 dpi textures? gahhhhh!! >.<

PS. have been on the normal Premium since 05. *bangs head on her kb*

There's got to be some way to offset the cost, making it free for premium plus is great, but I'm sure there's a large amount of creators that don't have that tier account. If not in world, then do away with marketplace commission, lessen mesh upload cost, make it more affordable for people to get the premium plus. 

[Codex Alpha]

1 hour ago, SylviElle Zaftig said:

Sigh...thanks for letting us know the changes. I just booted up my PBR FS and saw that indeed it's 40L for a 2048 upload. All the clothing I make has a 15 texture/color HUD + normal spec + HUD tex + vendor tex = 190L...with 2048 it's 760L...I sell my items for normally less than 350L for a fatpack. WTF IS THIS!

Will there be a marked difference between 1024 vs 2048 textures? I mean REALLY marked difference (cuz atm, i'm not seeing any)? Also the gfx load in a crowded club with everyone wearing upwards of 10 - 20 2048 dpi textures? gahhhhh!! >.<

PS. have been on the normal Premium since 05. *bangs head on her kb*

Technically you still win regardless, if you get 100 sales of this item it's still a profit. You can't look at the upload cost, but rather what you will net for the product over time. Yes, it is expensive though.

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, SylviElle Zaftig said:

Sigh...thanks for letting us know the changes. I just booted up my PBR FS and saw that indeed it's 40L for a 2048 upload. All the clothing I make has a 15 texture/color HUD + normal spec + HUD tex + vendor tex = 190L...with 2048 it's 760L...I sell my items for normally less than 350L for a fatpack. WTF IS THIS!

Will there be a marked difference between 1024 vs 2048 textures? I mean REALLY marked difference (cuz atm, i'm not seeing any)? Also the gfx load in a crowded club with everyone wearing upwards of 10 - 20 2048 dpi textures? gahhhhh!! >.<

PS. have been on the normal Premium since 05. *bangs head on her kb*

Then don't use 2048 textures.

Everything you've ever sold, ever, has had a maximum resolution of 1024 per texture. All uploading them at higher resolution did was put yourself at the mercy of an automatic texture rescaler.

[SylviElle Zaftig]

27 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Then don't use 2048 textures.

Everything you've ever sold, ever, has had a maximum resolution of 1024 per texture. All uploading them at higher resolution did was put yourself at the mercy of an automatic texture rescaler.

NO KIDDING!

Just working out the cost of things moving forward. There are a LOT of ppl in-world (customers) who don't know how much it costs to make something. I only buy FP mesh, so I don't have the TIME sink cost of making the actual mesh...for me, I spend most of my time perfecting/manipulating as much as I can, the provided base textures for these items. That's MY time cost that I don't really figure into the price of my items (a lot of my consideration for pricing my items are the initial outlay for the mesh + upload costs of textures + possibly how many bodies the mesh is rigged for). Having a 4x increase in upload fees for one texture seems like a lot. PLus if I ever do decide to use PBR, that's what...another 3-5 textures? at 40L? I've made some good money on SL, at one time something I could actually live off of in RL...but this price hike...is...painful, no matter if I still only upload in 1024 (with extra PBR textures).

Sure I don't have to use it...but if there is a HUGE increase in quality (like how when 512 was upgraded to 1024 upload, you could tell the huge difference esp for the edges on system clothing -less jagged edges), then it'll be logical to upload everything as 2048.

 

@Codex Alpha Yes, i know...that's the nice thing about SL, one upload and u can sell it infinitely...but as with everything, not everything will sell. At 190L outlay for an one outfit (barring mesh purchase or upload) for textures, I wasn't constantly hesitating to upload/produce. If I was happy with my texture work, I'd upload it and HUD it esp if it was something *I* particularly loved to wear...whatever if someone else buys it. Now if ti's going to cost me 4x more...I'll be more hesitant. YES I KNOW THERESA! I don't have to upload at 2048 -_-.

[SylviElle Zaftig]

3 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Yes, they take four times as long to stream, decode and load.

 

yes that's the underlying problem I am foreseeing...esp in a busy club. I DJ, I socialize when I have time away from my shop/photoshop...I like looking and perving at other people's outfits. I like looking at people's avatars, period. The lag that 2048 textures is going to produce ugh. And we all know that most creators (some of whom already use FOUR 1024 textures for a pair of skinny ass jeans) are going to for sure upload at 2048. I have a TINY tee that has TWO textures (body/sleeves), that could have been textured using ONE texture...SO many things in SL, yes, even new mesh is so unoptimized...and now 2048 texture size.

Been in SL since 2005, I've seen pretty much EVERY iteration of SL that LL has put out, sometimes unhappy but proceeded with my creative side anyway no matter how painful (I AM LOOKING AT U OMEGA APPLIERS!!!) and time consuming. This new stuff is making me feel disinclined to make new stuff. I don't think I could leave SL lmao, not after 20 years. The sky isn't falling...but it's lowered a bit lol.

[Ilyra Chardin]

I'm so confused by the "recently allowed 2048 texture upload," as we've had that ability for years now. Second life would reject any texture larger than 2048. When uploading art work, I've always uploaded it as 1800 x 1200 or 1200 x 1800. But now, and I am premium, they've charged L$40.

For regular textures, I don't use anything higher than 1024. I do think this L$40 charge is a bit much. And while I'm not premium plus, I do think that charging any upload fees (even if they've "fixed it" with a fee for a certain amount of uploads) is a breach of their promised unlimited uploads for free to premium plus members.

Lastly, cause I'm on a roll. LOL.

Please don't try to justify the hike in costs with a slap for the residents (aka customers)

For example, when i joined SL, we had first and last names. Then it was taken away, and now it costs from $14.99 to $49.99 to change an avatar name. People have tried justify those costs by citing how much work it takes to change the avatar name. But...um...all second life avatars have unique primary keys. The avatar name is a field in a table and the update can be accomplished in nanoseconds.

The same is true for the argument that bigger textures require more storage, which is costly. This is not an entirely accurate statement as in the industry storage costs have continued to decrease substantially over time.

That's my 2 cents (L$4) <--- inflation 

Edited June 26 by Ilyra Chardin

[Polenth Yue]

1 hour ago, Ilyra Chardin said:

I'm so confused by the "recently allowed 2048 texture upload," as we've had that ability for years now. Second life would reject any texture larger than 2048. When uploading art work, I've always uploaded it as 1800 x 1200 or 1200 x 1800. But now, and I am premium, they've charged L$40.

For regular textures, I don't use anything higher than 1024. I do think this L$40 charge is a bit much. And while I'm not premium plus, I do think that charging any upload fees (even if they've "fixed it" with a fee for a certain amount of uploads) is a breach of their promised unlimited uploads for free to premium plus members.

In the past, larger uploads were resized to 1024. To avoid the 2K fee, you'll need to resize them to 1024 before you upload them.

I never really got why people recommended letting SL do the resizing, as I tested it, and the quality was worse than resizing them at my end. But anyway, that's over now, because it allows the textures to be larger. Only upload a file bigger than 1024 if you're aiming for a 2K texture.