Jaimy Hancroft Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Hello fellow merchants and creators!! I am writing to bring up a severe issue that has recently affected my business, Deathrowdesigns (DRD), which has been running since 2008 in Second Life. Most of you might know us, especially during the time of Halloween. Just recently, Second Life finally got around to cracking down on TOS infringement of account sharing and deleted our entire marketplace listing – over 2000 listings down the drain. They kept our account on hold -> without any warning or reason. This has put a severe dent in our operations, Despite pointing out that Section 4.1 of the TOS mentions the possibility of obtaining written permission for sharing an avatar, support has consistently denied us a clear path or process to obtain this consent. We’ve received messages implying that sharing the account in any capacity will result in termination, which feels particularly targeted, especially considering other businesses appear to operate without similar scrutiny. Although my account is now released to me and me only, I cannot function or do business alone. DRD has well over 10,000 customers and over 3000 items that we manage. Handling all of it single-handedly really just isn't an option and manager solutions are just not there. It's just not possible for me to operate DRD on my own. I have my actual sister and our amazing CSR, Charlotte Bailey, without whom we wouldn't have been the success we are today. This does not only feel unfair but also goes to what is reasonably expected of a business in Second Life to be able to run operations when so greatly limited effectively. If other companies, such as Jessica Chung's, can operate 24/7, then indeed they are also sharing accounts. Why are we being singled out? I ask for the support of the community and their voice in this matter. We should sort out how a business person can run his business without landing into such punitive actions that actually might mean a loss of livelihood. . Thank you so much for reading about our situation. Any advice, support, or suggestions would be great. 22 5 1 36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fen Syakumi Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Generally, I have a pretty favorable view of Linden Labs' enforcement and moderation, but this just seems utterly pointless and smells of Netflix-esque enforcement. What is the rationale here, and how does it warrant such harsh consequences when there would appear to be no harm done in sharing a business account? Until LL make business accounts a formal reality, this is oddly restrictive and limits a lot of common sense operations. 24 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooky Shadow Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) I stand by you 100% LL isn't supportive of creators - I was kicked out of the Caspervend support group (which you need to pay to be in and is owned by Linden Labs) for asking about an issue that was effecting dozens of creators which was confirmed to be a legit issue they weren't aware of. LL has lost their way once again! How many more creators do we have to lose till LL sees there is a problem. Edited June 13 by Spooky Shadow 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie Gray Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 LL really do need to make provision for businesses, and also community management avatars to be shared. What has happened to DRD is terrible. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for them after all of the creativity, hard work, and money that has obviously been put into their business. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnchantedDream Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) This is horrible news, DRD is by far by favorite store on the whole grid. I am a huge bohemian life styler in real life and they cater to how i would love my dream house and my dream decor. Having a so called violation like this is obscure. There is an animation override store that can have an ao called "sexy child" and after thousands of complaints about it, they are still around and up and running, but drd gets the boot because of this???!!!! This is daft. I STAND! Edited June 13 by EnchantedDream 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sass Piggins Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 How absolutely frustrating and scary, I can't imagine. I hope they come up with an alternative solution. This seems a bit too far. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Graymark Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 This seems tremendously unfair, especially without clear, adequate explanation of a policy that is then applied evenly to all content creators across the Second Life platform. Do Linden Labs really not understand what a creative juggernaut DRD is? They cannot be unaware of the creative richness DRD continues to bring to Second Life after all of these years. I urge LL to reverse these unfair actions, or in some other way to work with one of the greatest creators SL has seen to ensure that they can do business and thrive here. DRD is an asset that should be supported. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elleon Bergamasco Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 SL Wiki says: "Should you give another person access to your account, you do so at your own risk; that is, if you permit someone to access your account, you are responsible for what that individual does while using your account." So if a business is willing to take that risk, and NOT hold Linden accountable, why would they shut down an extremely popular and creative business? This makes creators want to move to other platforms. Why would I invest hundreds of thousands of hours for SL content creation when they can take it away with A: no warning and B: no alternative? 27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamots Wind Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 As a person in IT security I can understand not wanting people to share accounts. However, it is VERY obvious that many stores across SL share one account to allow for customer service and management of large businesses like DRD. Taking this action against an obvious business account without having an alternative solution in place is wrong. If Linden Labs can provide a solution, like a group account for businesses, then fine, enforce this all you want. Otherwise, change the TOS wording to not apply to what are clearly business accounts. Second Life still exists because businesses like DRD keep making cool things for people to buy. If Linden Labs makes it difficult for creators to sell their creations, then they will leave. That loss would result in all the consumers eventually leaving too. Everyone I know shops at least weekly, if not daily, for new things to put in their homes or add to their avatars. Don't punish the people keeping SL alive. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimy Hancroft Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Elleon Bergamasco said: SL Wiki says: "Should you give another person access to your account, you do so at your own risk; that is, if you permit someone to access your account, you are responsible for what that individual does while using your account." So if a business is willing to take that risk, and NOT hold Linden accountable, why would they shut down an extremely popular and creative business? This makes creators want to move to other platforms. Why would I invest hundreds of thousands of hours for SL content creation when they can take it away with A: no warning and B: no alternative? Thats exactly what i've sent to them. but they kept hitting me back with NOPE CANT DO THAT. so i read trough and it does say you can get written permission but when i ask about that they stonewall us with threats to termintate if I let my csr or sister log in. My last message to them that never got answered : Thank you for releasing my account and resetting the password. I have received the instructions via email and will follow them promptly. I would like to reiterate that obtaining permission for sharing an avatar is mentioned in Section 4.1 of the TOS. It’s essential for businesses like mine to have the flexibility to manage operations effectively. You mentioned that Support is unable to provide this permission, but I believe there must be a way for businesses to obtain this consent, as highlighted in the TOS. Moreover, you can’t tell me that Jessica Chung is awake at her desk 24/7 managing her avatar. There should be a feasible solution for business operations. I will also explore the feedback portal for suggestions on improving store management without sharing accounts. Edited June 13 by Jaimy Hancroft 23 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoryRudd Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 I think it is very unrealistic to believe most businesses can be successful without the support of others. I do not understand how SL can single out one business when it is very apparent that some large monopolies are deffinately available 24/7 thus not operating as a 1 person avi. SL needs to provide business accounts that are exactly for that purpose. Also, for those of us that have been around for a very long sl time.....sl has already lost so many people, businesses and subscription is at a low.....we the consumers are the bread and butter that keeps the lindens flowing. Ummmm I would miss DRD if they cannot operate under this regime. SL fix it........ Rory (ummm not first avi either) 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossman Marques Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 I support DRD on this. It is well known many groups and businesses out there have multiple people using one acct for larger businesses. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Captain Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 It's idiotic of Linden Labs to do this. They should know better. DRD's got the finest made original stuff on sl. I was shopping there just the other day and thought it was just some error the marketplace site was down. To do this to one of their best content creators is just wrong. I should hope the Lindens can grow and use the brains to figure out how the larger business can operate better or this will have greater impact than just ONE businesses. Second Life needs all good creators like DRD it can get. Who will get taken down next? I been in sl for near 20 years, for whatever that matters, buying tons of stuff from DRD and the other great creators. Money that goes both in their pockets and the Linden Labs. Fix this Linden Labs. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimy Hancroft Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 Just now, RoryRudd said: I think it is very unrealistic to believe most businesses can be successful without the support of others. I do not understand how SL can single out one business when it is very apparent that some large monopolies are deffinately available 24/7 thus not operating as a 1 person avi. SL needs to provide business accounts that are exactly for that purpose. THIS 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBeatrix Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 The ToS is what it is, what LL wants it to be, and I'm not going to discuss it. But they should have issued a warning instead of deleting the Marketplace listing out of the blue, so you could have taken adequate measures. Once more, it was just LL's inability to communicate. @Jaimy Hancroft You, and other merchants, can request a feature for a new type of account, one that can be shared. If LL allows thousands of bots to roam around SL, why not creating a special account type that they know is shared by X, Y and Z accounts? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animats Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Can you open an account in the name of a corporation? Then, staff who access the account are not "sharing" it; they are acting as agents of the corporation. The corporation is the "person" owning the account. SL once had substantial companies with in-world presence. IBM once had an island. How was that done? How were "Motown" and "Zenescope" handled? This is a really good topic for the governance meeting at 2PM today. 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 34 minutes ago, Jaimy Hancroft said: This does not only feel unfair but also goes to what is reasonably expected of a business in Second Life to be able to run operations when so greatly limited effectively. If other companies, such as Jessica Chung's, can operate 24/7, then indeed they are also sharing accounts. Why are we being singled out? Not only them but Meli Imako has a staff of mesh creators of over 40 now that all access their MP store to add listings. Its pathetic how LL has always targeted some merchants to enforce their rules and not others. You have my 100% support. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimy Hancroft Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 5 minutes ago, animats said: Can you open an account in the name of a corporation? Then, staff who access the account are not "sharing" it; they are acting as agents of the corporation. The corporation is the "person" owning the account. SL once had substantial companies with in-world presence. IBM once had an island. How was that done? How were "Motown" and "Zenescope" handled? This is a really good topic for the governance meeting at 2PM today. Good idea indeed, where is this meeting ? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecla Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 28 minutes ago, Jaimy Hancroft said: Just recently, Second Life finally got around to cracking down on TOS infringement of account sharing and ... Has LL publicly stated anywhere that they are doing this or is this rumor based on an upswing in reports of it? Not saying rumors are not true, but curious if this is stated LL policy, particularly given as noted it is common practice for larger businesses. If LL is going to march forward with this with any dedication then it's going to disrupt a huge number of businesses. They need to find a solution fast or face significant blowback from the entire community, creators and their customers alike. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharwyn Chauveau Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 It's sad to hear that this happened to then ! I support DRD . LL gives off the attitude that they don't reallly care about the creator , to just wipe his MP is wrong . A proper business would have tried to solve the problem with an email . Hope things get better for you Jaimy ! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polyhistor Serpente Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 This needs to be fixed. There should either be official business accounts or a way to officially allow certain people to access an account with permission. At the very least there should have been some dialog before trashing the marketplace. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babydoll Bunny Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 This is all really disheartening. And I feel like this is a witch hunt, with favortism playing a massive part. There are literally hundreds of business' in SL ran by one single avatar, with multiple people handing things behind the scenes on that avatar. For a business to have success and be successful and grow, this is going to happen. One person cannot do it all 24/7. The Wiki clearly states, you do so at your own risk. DRD has been in business since 2008, and hasnt been compromised. So why is there a issue NOW? When, I can literally name 30 business' off the top of my head, ran the same way DRD has been. LL should WANT business' to be successful and thrive. And should encourage ways to manage such interprises. If they're not happy with account sharing perhaps they need to think out of the box, and offer some kind of business account option for business with success. I find it pretty odd really with all the breaches on Marketplace the last 2 weeks, that THIS is their focus. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimy Hancroft Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 Just now, Thecla said: Has LL publicly stated anywhere that they are doing this or is this rumor based on an upswing in reports of it? Not saying rumors are not true, but curious if this is stated LL policy, particularly given as noted it is common practice for larger businesses. If LL is going to march forward with this with any dedication then it's going to disrupt a huge number of businesses. They need to find a solution fast or face significant blowback from the entire community, creators and their customers alike. It's either that I'm assuming . OR we are really being singled out ... one or the other 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecla Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Just now, Jaimy Hancroft said: Good idea indeed, where is this meeting ? Discussion of topics relating to safety and security in Second Life. Please note this does not include the discussion of Reports anyone has filed, the outcome of investigations, or potential actions taken on abuse, DMCA or copywrite issues. Normal schedule is to meet once a month, every 2nd Thursday from 2:00pm - 3:00pm PT Location: https://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden Estate Services4/228/16/28 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Reposted the OP (as an archive) with comments for folks that never come to the forums. Lots of creator - readers and they really need to know this. TY. Stay strong. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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