Cristiano Midnight Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 6 hours ago, Daniel Voyager said: On the block of adult rated regions using Mobile... The lab have responded via Second Life Feedback portal saying that "We understand your concerns and we are considering all options". Would love to know what the possible options might be ? I would imagine some type of more granular ratings on parcels maybe or some other change to the ratings system. My home is in an adult sim just because that was the best deal for what I wanted, but there is nothing adult about it compared to my other land in an M sim. A lot of users are in a similar situation. so they do need to come up with some method for access that abides by the adult content app store nonsense. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 I keep coming back to LL's ambitions for Mobile - Apple Store and then I think about Moderate regions and both public adult nudity and child avatars in theory being allowed in them. It just seems like a recipe for disaster to me. I think LL could take a few approaches. 1) Ban child avatars from moderate regions. 2) Ban public adult nudity on moderate regions. 3) Develope some sort of sub category for Moderate regions MN (Moderate Nudity) etc which child avatars aren't allowed in. 4) Develop some sort of way to censor content depending on your personal preferences. I.e. those who can only access G content see everyone wearing underwear etc even if that particular adult isn't wearing any. I suppose this might cause issues with people not knowing they're around nude people though..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Two words that sink all these grand ideas. legacy content as in, all content the predates the new rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 35 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: Two words that sink all these grand ideas. legacy content as in, all content the predates the new rules. I thought the lab was intending to clean up the MP of content that had not sold for a couple or three years. Would that not go a long way to cleaning up this legacy content you think is problematic? And if the creator is no longer around anyway, wouldn't it be best to block its distribution? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 No. That just removed stuff from the market place that no one was buying. legacy content exists forever and is everywhere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 5 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: No. That just removed stuff from the market place that no one was buying. legacy content exists forever and is everywhere So what's the problem with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 12 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: Im still trying to imagine being a noob, signing up on mobile and logging in for the first time. Id log on, land whereever brand new noobs log in these days, stand there for a few minutes, nothing happens, I’d go this game is b***sh** , quit and uninstall. Then l’d tell all my friends what a crap game Second Life is. Congrats LL, you just lost someone that might have stayed if they had joined on a computer. 😂 This can happen on PC as well. Consider that the new generation uses Mobile for a lot of things, so just because you and I dont use or maybe even like it, they will. It also depends on how LL programs their UI and UX interface. I'm sure it will be custom to fit on Mobile and run fast. How they will downplay the graphics and crunch textures and objects not optimized AT ALL for mobile - I don't know. Perhaps with a Mobile App and Apple, LL will open that market up to creators who can create especially for those platforms. Many of us can make efficient stuff for Mobile platforms as it is.. This way we might actually get rewarded for the extra work we put in, and LL can benefit from a faster platform. Until then, they're going to have to find a way to discourage inefficient practices - perhaps increase the Land Impact for items that use 8 x 1k textures (soon to be 8 x 2k textures) for each item. Since I don't spend my time having virtual sex here, I'm perfectly fine to work within the constraints of Apple or what LL needs for mobile, and I'm sure there are many many more creators that will too - they're just not present on the forums to add their voices. In addition to how SL exists in its current state. Edited May 23 by Codex Alpha Gotta clarify before someone strawmans me 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: So what's the problem with it? There is not and has never been any system for rating content. We can only rate the land the content is placed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 24 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: There is not and has never been any system for rating content. We can only rate the land the content is placed on. So? Add another permission flag to differentiate between Adult and non-adult. Another region cap and it's ready to go. There will be a debate whether the flag should be on or off by default for the legacy stuff but sure that would get sorted. OS Firestorm already has an extra checkbox that was going to be used for Export but was never enabled. In the Viewer code it can be converted to a Adult rating checkbox. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istelathis Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: So? Add another permission flag to differentiate between Adult and non-adult. Another region cap and it's ready to go. There will be a debate whether the flag should be on or off by default for the legacy stuff but sure that would get sorted. OS Firestorm already has an extra checkbox that was going to be used for Export but was never enabled. In the Viewer code it can be converted to a Adult rating checkbox. My guesstimate, is that if Apple really pushes LL to change significantly we will see such a thing occur. All adult rated items (or whatever other categories that are not deemed appropriate for the mobile audience) will not be downloaded for the mobile client, it simply will not exist. It is quite the undertaken, it would be an expensive pursuit, and would probably require a lot of temp jobs filtering through the marketplace as well as property flagging each individual item. I know that sounds unrealistic to many people, but there are no simpler solutions, other than gatekeeping all mobile users to G rated regions, which would be a magnificent flop the likes of which might surpass Sansar. I mean alternatively, we may log into SL one day with large portions of our inventory missing, which would still have required a bunch of temp workers going through the marketplace, deleting inappropriate items, plus going through everyone's property to ensure they meet the requirement's of apple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 52 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: So? Add another permission flag to differentiate between Adult and non-adult You can't change the flags on no-mod content. Also, nobody sane will volunteer to go re-flag all the mod content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 46 minutes ago, Istelathis said: but there are no simpler solutions Yes there is. Drop mobile support for Awful Mac or better yet. Drop mobile altogether. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 3 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: You can't change the flags on no-mod content. Also, nobody sane will volunteer to go re-flag all the mod content. Sure you can, It would be a new flag not restricted by the no mod the same as the Copy and Transfer flags are not affected by it. Amazing what a crew of volunteer moral minority residents can accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 45 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: So? Add another permission flag to differentiate between Adult and non-adult. Another region cap and it's ready to go. There will be a debate whether the flag should be on or off by default for the legacy stuff but sure that would get sorted. OS Firestorm already has an extra checkbox that was going to be used for Export but was never enabled. In the Viewer code it can be converted to a Adult rating checkbox. This fails. Who gets to go around the entire grid flagging objects as adult content or not. can't depend on all the end users knowing they need do this, let alone expecting them to do it right or consistently. I would be a significant job to do it for a single region, let alone the entire grid. - If the switch is set to adult by default, the mobile client is locked out of all but g rated regions (which presuming no adult content is on G, which it is!) - If the switch is set to not-adult by default, then the mobile client is unrestricted and this whole adventure was for nothing. We can't rely on end users to log in and then correctly and meticulously flag all their rezzed stuff. We can't even rely on them to log in, or even know about this new thing. Automatically flagging objects based on creator decision, puts responsibility onto creators, many of which aren't in SL anymore and fails again if people have modded the content. Again, flagging all objects with 'naughty_animation' as adult requires those animations to accurately flagging by someone, does not take into account copies or re-uploads, or context (all the OG kink furniture used built in animations). There is no solution that can possibly involve flagging existing rezzed content. Drawing a line and requiring new content be flagged also fails as it requires creators to know, care and do it correctly. There is a commercial argument to be made for not doing it correctly and accepting a slap on the wrist at some point later when eventually discovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 3 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Yes there is. Drop mobile support for Awful Mac or better yet. Drop mobile altogether. Simple. I'd like to hear what the Android store has to offer. I agree with the mac mobile though but then I don't have one so I'm possibly biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 Just now, Arielle Popstar said: Amazing what a crew of volunteer moral minority residents can accomplish. So what happens if your morality police are denied entry to someone's land. As they should be. Find a way to do it anyway and a residents space has been violated. Expect a visceral pushback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 23 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: I'd like to hear what the Android store has to offer. I agree with the mac mobile though but then I don't have one so I'm possibly biased. The Google Play store has similar restrictions, but Android does allow side loading. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: This fails. Who gets to go around the entire grid flagging objects as adult content or not. can't depend on all the end users knowing they need do this, let alone expecting them to do it right or consistently. I would be a significant job to do it for a single region, let alone the entire grid. Volunteers. The Moral Minorities in IMVU are always flagging content that is determined to be Adult that's aside from the creators themselves who are motivated to rate their old and new content properly. Quote - If the switch is set to adult by default, the mobile client is locked out of all but g rated regions (which presuming no adult content is on G, which it is!) - If the switch is set to not-adult by default, then the mobile client is unrestricted and this whole adventure was for nothing. Quite a bit of content can be put to Adult simply through Database UUID searches. For example any furniture containing a humping animation is set to Adult. Any content named *****, *ick, *ock etc is set to adult, etc Quote We can't rely on end users to log in and then correctly and meticulously flag all their rezzed stuff. We can't even rely on them to log in, or even know about this new thing. If it is done from the database, it should not need every individual item to be set to Adult. Quote Automatically flagging objects based on creator decision, puts responsibility onto creators, many of which aren't in SL anymore and fails again if people have modded the content. Then set it to non-adult unless it fulfills the conditions I already mentioned. For the rest leave it to residents to report it. Quote There is no solution that can possibly involve flagging existing rezzed content. I think you're making more of it then it is. It's been done before on other platforms and yeah it wasn't easy or quick but it can be done. Quote Drawing a line and requiring new content be flagged also fails as it requires creators to know, care and do it correctly. There is a commercial argument to be made for not doing it correctly and accepting a slap on the wrist at some point later when eventually discovered. It is not that hard once someone understands what is considered Adult (does require the Lab to know what is which is questionable) and whether the Lab becomes as draconian as Imvu is, remains to be seen. Edited May 24 by Arielle Popstar cleanup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istelathis Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 (edited) Perhaps this is what LL meant when they said they are going to take proactive measurements, something or another, at the roundtable. All uploads have to be approved, I wonder if that is the case if that might also be a reason why we are seeing an increase in the cost of texture uploads.. I mean beside the fact that they are higher resolution, complete speculation on my part, don't take it too seriously. Edited May 24 by Istelathis 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahadin Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 If the intent is to appease Apple, maybe users should only be able to go on General regions if they are on an iOS device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, Istelathis said: My guesstimate, is that if Apple really pushes LL to change significantly we will see such a thing occur. All adult rated items (or whatever other categories that are not deemed appropriate for the mobile audience) will not be downloaded for the mobile client, it simply will not exist. It is quite the undertaken, it would be an expensive pursuit, and would probably require a lot of temp jobs filtering through the marketplace as well as property flagging each individual item. I know that sounds unrealistic to many people, but there are no simpler solutions, other than gatekeeping all mobile users to G rated regions, which would be a magnificent flop the likes of which might surpass Sansar. I mean alternatively, we may log into SL one day with large portions of our inventory missing, which would still have required a bunch of temp workers going through the marketplace, deleting inappropriate items, plus going through everyone's property to ensure they meet the requirement's of apple. Does LL really think this is gonna help. More and more i think all of this is prepping Second Life for sale. Better idea, scrap the mobile app, its gonna fail anyway, and will save LL a lot of time and effort 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 8 minutes ago, Rahadin said: If the intent is to appease Apple, maybe users should only be able to go on General regions if they are on an iOS device. I can see it now.. this second life thing sucks... there is no sex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 9 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: Does LL really think this is gonna help. More and more i think all of this is prepping Second Life for sale. Better idea, scrap the mobile app, its gonna fail anyway, and will save LL a lot of time and effort I'm not so sure about the effort part. I did some research on app creation and found out it typically requires about 6 months to create a game. It's been taking the Lab a lot longer then that and they are only creating the viewer part as the server side already exists. It wasn't having to create it all from scratch either as aside from the renderer, much of it has been done before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 14 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: I'm not so sure about the effort part. I did some research on app creation and found out it typically requires about 6 months to create a game. It's been taking the Lab a lot longer then that and they are only creating the viewer part as the server side already exists. It wasn't having to create it all from scratch either as aside from the renderer, much of it has been done before. The bulk of game development time is in content creation. Levels, characters, mechanics, art, music and so on. This was just an engine port. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 3 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: The bulk of game development time is in content creation. Levels, characters, mechanics, art, music and so on. This was just an engine port. So you're saying that out of the typical 6 months time required by a developer, the greater majority goes to the content creation? The engine port shouldn't even take that long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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