New Article: "SL's loyal users embrace its decaying software and no-fun imperfections"

[Arielle Popstar]

13 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

That's the word, I couldn't remember it - "bitrot".  I had a boss that used a similar word, or more babbling like, "the bits are degrading", etc.  Us IT professionals know that's not really a thing except on physical media.  Sure, programs stop working over time. Sure, we see inventory missing - but it's a BIIIIIG database!

 

Interesting, Oz and Beq said Lumiya would suffer from "bitrot" due to it no longer being updated. Wondered what they meant and been looking for it to happen since but haven't seen any degradation yet from the app side.

[Rat Luv]

On 5/13/2024 at 7:06 PM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

https://www.documentjournal.com/2024/05/second-life-virtual-world-gamer-furry-identity-world/

I’ve seen griffins knocking back cider in English pub gardens, giantesses roaming the Grand Canyon, and a vorarephilic cake infiltrating a nightclub, handing out forks, begging other users to eat it.

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

I’ve seen griffins knocking back cider in English pub gardens, giantesses roaming the Grand Canyon, and a vorarephilic cake infiltrating a nightclub, handing out forks, begging other users to eat it.

Blade Runner! What do I win?

[Rat Luv]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Blade Runner! What do I win?

1L  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdUq2opPY-Q

 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

57 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Interesting, Oz and Beq said Lumiya would suffer from "bitrot" due to it no longer being updated. Wondered what they meant and been looking for it to happen since but haven't seen any degradation yet from the app side.

For example, individual "capabilities"  ("caps") are used for different features where the viewer must communicate with the server. Each of those also has a message format. If an old capability / message format is no longer supported, that piece won't work in the viewer without code updates. 

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

1L  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdUq2opPY-Q

 

 

The only time I saw that was on laserdisc at a college library!

[JacksonBollock]

Choose SECOND Life.

Anyway...it amused us at the time.

Edited May 16 by JacksonBollock

[Scylla Rhiadra]

9 hours ago, ValKalAstra said:

Under the lens of browsing through some of her exhibitions, I really don't think that she meant "decaying" in a negative way and more along the lines of a certain fascination for how game engines work and how Second Life is a bit of a technological portal into days gone.

I think this is exactly right. Well said; it's sort of what I've been trying to say, but said soooo much better.

9 hours ago, ValKalAstra said:

I think I'll ping her a mail and wonder if she would be willing to enter a discourse on the topic or maybe explain some things.

Caer has suggested something similar. They have obviously been on this forum, as they cite it, and if they are in this particular field (MMOs and games) they're likely familiar with the rough-and-tumble of these kinds of fora, so I probably shouldn't worry too much, but I'll confess that if they DO post here, I'll be watching anxiously behind half-closed fingers!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

The only time I saw that was on laserdisc at a college library!

Just in passing, Love, you were asking about the use of the term "affect" earlier. That scene (which is brilliant) is a pretty good example of how it might be used: what we hear and see from Roy is an expression of the "affect" of all he has experienced. The fact that he's capable of it (because affect is mostly about emotional and/or psychological responses) is, of course, what proves that he and the other replicants are fully "human."

[CaerolleClaudel]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think this is exactly right. Well said; it's sort of what I've been trying to say, but said soooo much better.

Caer has suggested something similar. They have obviously been on this forum, as they cite it, and if they are in this particular field (MMOs and games) they're likely familiar with the rough-and-tumble of these kinds of fora, so I probably shouldn't worry too much, but I'll confess that if they DO post here, I'll be watching anxiously behind half-closed fingers!

I actually *did* email them. I let them know about the discussion and gave them the link. I told Alice that some of us felt their participation would add quite a lot to the discussion, but I also warned them that several people were hostile toward the article. However, I feel the odds are low they will show up, as they likely are too busy to participate or perhaps might not want to wade into controversy. I sent the email yesterday PM but have yet to get a reply; no biggie as I told them I did not need a reply, I just wanted to make them aware of the discussion and invite them to participate. At the least they might read through the discussion even if they do not respond to it.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 hours ago, JacksonBollock said:

Choose SECOND Life.

Anyway...it amused us at the time.

Ouch.

The first Trainspotting is the movie that I mentioned above somewhere, I think, that I was unable to finish watching because of one particularly traumatizing scene.

I do love the Prodigy remix of Lust for Life though.

Edited May 16 by Scylla Rhiadra

[CaerolleClaudel]

6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Just in passing, Love, you were asking about the use of the term "affect" earlier. That scene (which is brilliant) is a pretty good example of how it might be used: what we hear and see from Roy is an expression of the "affect" of all he has experienced. The fact that he's capable of it (because affect is mostly about emotional and/or psychological responses) is, of course, what proves that he and the other replicants are fully "human."

I'm a bit confused. Is his affect an effect of all he has experienced? Perhaps I am misreading or I do not understand the difference between affect as a noun vs a verb as I think I do lol.

[Paul Hexem]

9 hours ago, ValKalAstra said:

I think I'll ping her a mail and wonder if she would be willing to enter a discourse on the topic or maybe explain some things.

 

16 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

They have obviously been on this forum, as they cite it, and if they are in this particular field (MMOs and games) they're likely familiar with the rough-and-tumble of these kinds of fora, so I probably shouldn't worry too much, but I'll confess that if they DO post here, I'll be watching anxiously behind half-closed fingers!

 

2 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I actually *did* email them. I let them know about the discussion and gave them the link. I told Alice that some of us felt their participation would add quite a lot to the discussion, but I also warned them that several people were hostile toward the article. However, I feel the odds are low they will show up, as they likely are too busy to participate or perhaps might not want to wade into controversy. I sent the email yesterday PM but have yet to get a reply; no biggie as I told them I did not need a reply, I just wanted to make them aware of the discussion and invite them to participate. At the least they might read through the discussion even if they do not respond to it.

If one of these article writers did show up, it would be a wonderfully good time, I think!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I'm a bit confused. Is his affect an effect of all he has experienced? Perhaps I am misreading or I do not understand the difference between affect as a noun vs a verb as I think I do lol.

Affect here is a noun, and is related to, but ultimately rather more complicated, than the meanings of the verb. The barebones dictionary definition of current usage (OED) is "A term used in psychology for the experience of feeling or emotion, mood, etc., as opposed to cognition and volition."

In my field, it's used most often to describe the complex and sometimes subtle ways in which our emotional responses can impact upon us, and upon our perceptions of and responses to the world around us. It is NOT a very common usage, though. Poetry and literature, or art in general, can produce a particular "affect" in those who experience that is much more difficult to describe comprehensively and accurately than what one might call the "intellectual content" of the piece.

Edited May 16 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Love Zhaoying]

17 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Just in passing, Love, you were asking about the use of the term "affect" earlier. That scene (which is brilliant) is a pretty good example of how it might be used: what we hear and see from Roy is an expression of the "affect" of all he has experienced. The fact that he's capable of it (because affect is mostly about emotional and/or psychological responses) is, of course, what proves that he and the other replicants are fully "human."

Yeah, makes sense. Of course, I'm more used to 'affect' applied literally to one's visage.

[JacksonBollock]

9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Ouch.

The first Trainspotting is the movie that I mentioned above somewhere, I think, that I was unable to finish watching because of one particularly traumatizing scene.

I do love the Prodigy remix of Lust for Life though.

Yeah, it is a tough watch for some people.

The second one not so much, I'd recommend giving it a go if you have the time 

[CaerolleClaudel]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Affect here is a noun, and is related to, but ultimately rather more complicated, than the meanings of the verb. The barebones dictionary definition of current usage (OED) is "A term used in psychology for the experience of feeling or emotion, mood, etc., as opposed to cognition and volition."

In my field, it's used most often to describe the complex and sometimes subtle ways in which our emotional responses can impact upon us, and upon our perceptions of and responses to the world around us. It is NOT a very common usage, though.

Sorry, yes, I do know of that denotation and of those connotations. I was just confused in that particular sentence, probably a reading comprehension issue on my part (you are the expert and I am just a layperson lol). I understood what you meant from context, though.

I guess I would have understood it more easily if instead of

"we hear and see from Roy is an expression of the "affect" of all he has experienced."

it had been:

"we hear and see from Roy is an expression of the "affect" created by all he has experienced." or something like that, sorry...

Sorry to be so picky and to essentially challenge your expertise, just trying to wrap my tiny brain around that sentence. Sorry for the pedantic derail, too. 😳

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Yeah, makes sense. Of course, I'm more used to 'affect' applied literally to one's visage.

In the Bladerunner scene, the director had the challenge of communicating affect indirectly. We don't have a "narrator" who can describe what he's feeling, so the language, which is a bit like the visible tip of an iceberg, has to carry the weight of communicating how intense and very human are his responses to his experiences in life.

In this case, I think, it succeeds brilliantly: there is a reason that this is possibly the best known and most quoted scene from the movie. It's enormously powerful -- and of course produces an "affect" in us that is testimony to its effectiveness. (See what I did there? 😏)

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

you are the expert

Caer, if there is one thing easily demonstrable from my thousands of posts here, it is that I am as capable as anyone else of mucking up a communication, sounding incoherent, being incomprehensible, etc.!

[CaerolleClaudel]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Yeah, makes sense. Of course, I'm more used to 'affect' applied literally to one's visage.

I guess 'affect' *is* often applied, at least in psychology (to my limited knowledge and experience), refers to how we express what we feel, rather than what we actually feel, now that you mention it. Based on the way I process things, I see it more as the confluence of all the internal emotions we are experiencing in a particular context.

[CaerolleClaudel]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Caer, if there is one thing easily demonstrable from my thousands of posts here, it is that I am as capable as anyone else of mucking up a communication, sounding incoherent, being incomprehensible, etc.!

See, *this* is more what I am used to, I guess, where there are experiences which then produce the affect (from your reply to Love):

"and of course produces an 'affect' in us that"

Again, sorry to be so picky or dense, but thanks for the discussion, even though I am a ***** writer (esp when dashing off posts ugh), language is important to me. And ofc any reference to the OED is going to make me swoon lol.

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

In the Bladerunner scene, the director had the challenge of communicating affect indirectly. We don't have a "narrator" who can describe what he's feeling, so the language, which is a bit like the visible tip of an iceberg, has to carry the weight of communicating how intense and very human are his responses to his experiences in life.

In this case, I think, it succeeds brilliantly: there is a reason that this is possibly the best known and most quoted scene from the movie. It's enormously powerful -- and of course produces an "affect" in us that is testimony to its effectiveness. (See what I did there? 😏)

I give it credit for being effective, but I wasn't all that affected.  Fair?

(Forcing all that emotion into 1 scene, where if you hadn't bought into the artificial person's "humanity" before, then wasn't necessarily going to work with everyone to the same degree.)

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

I give it credit for being effective, but I wasn't all that affected.  Fair?

(Forcing all that emotion into 1 scene, where if you hadn't bought into the artificial person's "humanity" before, then wasn't necessarily going to work with everyone to the same degree.)

 

YMMV, as always!

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

YMMV, as always!

Another way to explain my viewpoint on the movie:

Phillip K. Dick was an awesome writer. Many of his novelettes, novels, and short stories were made into movies - but not until after his death.  The original novel "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" on which "Blade Runner" is based had a completely different "feel" to it than the movie.  I was misfortunate that my college "Science Fiction" professor made us read it IIRC.  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Androids_Dream_of_Electric_Sheep%3F).

Anyway, coincidentally (or not), the original story is also connected in ways to Alfred Bester's short story, "Fondly Fahrenheit". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fondly_Fahrenheit)

I hope you'll be happy to hear (as a professional), that of all the written vs. "movie versions" by Dick and Vonnegut (at least), I always preferred the written version. (Asimov, well..never was the biggest fan. Didn't watch "The Foundation Series" yet. Thought "I, Robot" was pretty awesome even if it strayed far, far, from the source material. "Bicentennial Man" was ok, hard to screw that one up with Robin Williams.)

Q: What's all this have to do with the current topic?

A: Assume for a minute that the article was about "realities only previously written about, becoming true or real within Second Life".  I'd say, Second Life did an OK job over the last 20+ years. But no, she didn't touch on that (AFAIK), or really make many references to written fiction; I just picked them up upon reading her article - because that's where I come from in reading it.

 

Edited May 16 by Love Zhaoying

[CaerolleClaudel]

12 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I give it credit for being effective, but I wasn't all that affected.  Fair?

(Forcing all that emotion into 1 scene, where if you hadn't bought into the artificial person's "humanity" before, then wasn't necessarily going to work with everyone to the same degree.)

 

That speech, and the improvised 'tears in the rain,' omg. To me, especially moving considering the sociopathy Roy consistently exhibited until that point.