New Article: "SL's loyal users embrace its decaying software and no-fun imperfections"

[Rahadin]

That article is what TV Tropes calls "Cowboy BeBop at His Computer"

[Codex Alpha]

6 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

You're defending something with way too many mistakes and misconceptions way too hard.

Also, I laugh at you if you think LL or the use of SL is somehow fighting against a repressive political and cultural system and not simply existing to fleece us out of way overpriced server space.

That's more of a mission of the forum regulars. Frankly I don't want to see any of that 'stink' as the front facing, or gateway or up front thing people see when they come here. People can do it all they want, but stop using SL to peddle a political agendar or 'social change'. It alienates as many people as it thinks it empowers, and whether or not it really gets new customers or not is up to debate. How many come for the Rainbows, and how many stay away because of the Rainbows?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

That's more of a mission of the forum regulars. Frankly I don't want to see any of that 'stink' as the front facing, or gateway or up front thing people see when they come here. People can do it all they want, but stop using SL to peddle a political agendar or 'social change'. It alienates as many people as it thinks it empowers, and whether or not it really gets new customers or not is up to debate. How many come for the Rainbows, and how many stay away because of the Rainbows?

Interesting way you define "stink."

Speaking of agendas.

Paul, you were looking for a proper definition of "heteronormative"?

Edited May 14 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Interesting way you define "stink."

Speaking of agendas.

Paul, you were looking for a proper definition of "heteronormative"?

Trying to figure out "stink". Maybe it's the opposite of "pink"?

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

When viewed through a wider lens, the question becomes 

How many come for the chance to express their individuality and connect with like-minded people, and how many stay away because of it?

I believe that the freedom of expression and creativity SL offers and the communities that have sprung up because of those freedoms are by far the most common reasons for people to explore SL, and those who stay away from the platform because of them would find very little of interest to them personally if they were to venture here out of curiosity.

[Paul Hexem]

11 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Paul, you were looking for a proper definition of "heteronormative"?

There are perfectly acceptable, classic, forum banned words for that. We don't need to invent new ones!

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

There are perfectly acceptable, classic, forum banned words for that. We don't need to invent new ones!

Lol, but that word isn't new. Stoppit. 😂

[Codex Alpha]

nm, I actuall like the front portal right now, it's much better. less rainbows.

Hopefully it's a return to early SL marketing. www.secondlife.com, now featuring video of the many fun things everyone can do.

Now keep it clean of political and social agendas, and I think it will be good to welcome EVERYONE

Edited May 14 by Codex Alpha

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

nm, I actuall like the front portal right now, it's much better. less rainbows.

Hopefully it's a return to early SL marketing. www.secondlife.com, now featuring video of the many fun things everyone can do.

Now keep it clean of political and social agendas, and I think it will be good to welcome EVERYONE

I do get that you are a gallant and brave Culture War Warrior, and enjoy turning every thread into a crusade, but do you think, just possibly, you could help keep THIS thread "clean of political and social agendas"? Because so far, after . . . 2 posts? . . . you're the main contributor to the promotion of "agendas" here.

None of this is relevant to the article in question. Please take it elsewhere.

Edited May 14 by Scylla Rhiadra
Grammar

[Istelathis]

9 hours ago, ValKalAstra said:

 

Another example that makes this point even more salient has got to be someone creating a simulated computer entirely from within Minecraft that is powerful enough to play Tetris. That's really not what the game Minecraft was ever intended to do. It's a kid's game about building houses, castles and exploring strange worlds.

 

/me pulls lever on train track

 

Even minecraft at this point, runs doom 🤣

In world of warcraft, before you could fly on Azeroth, a lot of us would be jumping around on walls to find inaccessible areas, as well as levitating or blinking our way to different areas.  I was on moonguard, back when it was mostly roleplayers, and loved all of the RP people used to create, it was so much fun even if I did not directly involve myself.  The wars we would have in southshore were epic, I remember everyone lining up on their horses, the speeches that were given, it was so much fun.. even having a drink in a tavern while adventuring with a few strangers and discussing the local events.

That is the kind of vibe I get from the article.  Basically, SL is a huge sandbox, that has what she perceives as bugs that residents embrace and make use of.  As @Scylla Rhiadra had mentioned, it was for a different demographic, not for SLers, I think a lot of her views are tied into techno mysticism, and I read it with that in mind.

[Ineffable Mote]

1 hour ago, Codex Alpha said:

 How many come for the Rainbows, and how many stay away because of the Rainbows?

How many other target markets are interested in SL, or anything like it, outside of the Pink Pound? I don't see it, and in any case look at how empty Meta and Sansar both were/are, outside of the drummed up hype. The closer to 12-14 year old market for IMVU and Roblox isn't at all viable for Second Life. There are only so many ways to keep the lights on and running, with a 20+ year old and heavily stagnated platform.

https://www.thebritishacademy.ac.uk/blog/pink-pound-hidden-history/

Edited May 14 by Ineffable Mote

[Ayashe Ninetails]

6 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

Even minecraft at this point, runs doom 🤣

Doom runs on everything now, I think. I saw some guy got it to run in Notepad. The real question is does it run in Second Life somewhere? 

 

7 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

I was on moonguard, back when it was mostly roleplayers, and loved all of the RP people used to create, it was so much fun even if I did not directly involve myself.

I was on Moon Guard, too! It had some fantastic guilds and a tight community and really was a great place to roleplay. Our Goldshire was truly legendary, though. It's its own meme.

 

10 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

techno mysticism

No comment.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 minutes ago, Ineffable Mote said:

How many other target markets are interested in SL, or anything like it, outside of the Pink Pound? I don't see it, and in any case look at how empty Meta and Sansar both were/are, outside of the drummed up hype. The closer to 14 year old market for IMVU and Roblox isn't at all viable for Second Life. There are only so many ways to keep the lights on and running, with a 20+ year old and heavily stagnated platform.

https://www.thebritishacademy.ac.uk/blog/pink-pound-hidden-history/

I am going to gently but firmly request that we not pursue this subject here any further.

The article makes literally NO mention of the LGBTQ+ community in SL. It's simply not relevant to a discussion that has, so far, been wide-ranging, informative, interesting, and mostly very civil.

Anyone who wants to discuss the LGBTQ+ community in SL can start their own thread, but please don't derail this one with a digression that will surely bury it in flaming and unwelcome drama.

[Istelathis]

4 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

No comment.

I think it is fun to think about, same with paganism, and spirituality in general.  I have no faith in any of it, but can kind of understand it.  I can feel spiritual, while playing games, or in SL, if it s a sense of appreciation, and at times a feeling of awe and wonder - that is usually where it stops though.  Then people start making funny rules, wearing silly hats, and pushing people into little boxes, creating enemies, make a religion of it, and well that just ruins it all for me.  

[Scylla Rhiadra]

31 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

/me pulls lever on train track

 

Even minecraft at this point, runs doom 🤣

In world of warcraft, before you could fly on Azeroth, a lot of us would be jumping around on walls to find inaccessible areas, as well as levitating or blinking our way to different areas.  I was on moonguard, back when it was mostly roleplayers, and loved all of the RP people used to create, it was so much fun even if I did not directly involve myself.  The wars we would have in southshore were epic, I remember everyone lining up on their horses, the speeches that were given, it was so much fun.. even having a drink in a tavern while adventuring with a few strangers and discussing the local events.

That is the kind of vibe I get from the article.  Basically, SL is a huge sandbox, that has what she perceives as bugs that residents embrace and make use of.  As @Scylla Rhiadra had mentioned, it was for a different demographic, not for SLers, I think a lot of her views are tied into techno mysticism, and I read it with that in mind.

I've seen some amazing things in Minecraft, including the production of a working CPU actually in-world.

The idea of porting one game inside another is also a really interesting concept. The article doesn't get into that sort of thing, but it seems to me that this is definitely another way in which users craft spaces for themselves outside of the confines of the platform design.

Edited May 14 by Scylla Rhiadra
Ugh don't ask

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Istelathis said:

I think it is fun to think about, same with paganism, and spirituality in general.  I have no faith in any of it, but can kind of understand it.  I can feel spiritual, while playing games, or in SL, if it s a sense of appreciation, and at times a feeling of awe and wonder - that is usually where it stops though.  Then people start making funny rules, wearing silly hats, and pushing people into little boxes, creating enemies, make a religion of it, and well that just ruins it all for me.  

The kind of critical approach that this article takes is, in theory anyway, "demystifying": it's trying to show how the quantifiable mechanics of a system -- code, rules, etc. -- work unseen to create what may appear as "natural" or even "mystical" ways of doing and understanding things, but are actually artificial constructs imposed by design.

So, when one does something that in some sense "subverts" design by exploiting a glitch or a cheat or whatever, one is actually pulling aside the curtain and showing the wheels and pulleys and the little man trying hard to control everything behind the scenes. Every subversion that highlights the realities of code and design is also in that sense a reminder that none of this is really mystical or magical or natural: it's all just been coded to seem that way.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, Istelathis said:

I think it is fun to think about, same with paganism, and spirituality in general.  I have no faith in any of it, but can kind of understand it.  I can feel spiritual, while playing games, or in SL, if it s a sense of appreciation, and at times a feeling of awe and wonder - that is usually where it stops though.  Then people start making funny rules, wearing silly hats, and pushing people into little boxes, creating enemies, make a religion of it, and well that just ruins it all for me.  

Not to focus too much on this and risk throwing this thread off-track, but you've accurately described my experience in Pagan communities years ago. Interesting to learn about and I greatly respect and appreciate it, but some favored a lot of strict rules that not everyone followed in their own practice. Many seemed made up as they went along. Totally fine for others, but not the vibe for me.

To try and pair that with technology, though...not a fan. Tech does not make me feel anything on that level (quite the opposite, really).

[Paul Hexem]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

you're the main contributor to the promotion of "agendas" here.

I certainly had nothing to do with it.

29 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I was on Moon Guard, too! It had some fantastic guilds and a tight community and really was a great place to roleplay. Our Goldshire was truly legendary, though. It's its own meme.

Say what you want about Moon Guard, but the people are always very amicable and friendly whenever I fire my sub back up.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Not to focus too much on this and risk throwing this thread off-track, but you've accurately described my experience in Pagan communities years ago. Interesting to learn about and I greatly respect and appreciate it, but some favored a lot of strict rules that not everyone followed in their own practice. Many seemed made up as they went along. Totally fine for others, but not the vibe for me.

To try and pair that with technology, though...not a fan. Tech does not make me feel anything on that level (quite the opposite, really).

And the very real danger is that buying into the "tech is magic!" or "tech brings us nearer to God!" argument simply turns our tech overlords into priests whom we permit to wield unlimited power over us through the ways in which they use code to reshape and ultimately control our lives. Father Zuckerberg and Father Musk know best . . .

Which, again, is what, on a more micro level, this article is about: how SL residents have resisted and subverted the dictates of the Holy Church of Linden.

[Luna Bliss]

18 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

24 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

I think it is fun to think about, same with paganism, and spirituality in general.  I have no faith in any of it, but can kind of understand it.  I can feel spiritual, while playing games, or in SL, if it s a sense of appreciation, and at times a feeling of awe and wonder - that is usually where it stops though.  Then people start making funny rules, wearing silly hats, and pushing people into little boxes, creating enemies, make a religion of it, and well that just ruins it all for me.  

The kind of critical approach that this article takes is, in theory anyway, "demystifying": it's trying to show how the quantifiable mechanics of a system -- code, rules, etc. -- work unseen to create what may appear as "natural" or even "mystical" ways of doing and understanding things, but are actually artificial constructs imposed by design.

So, when one does something that in some sense "subverts" design by exploiting a glitch or a cheat or whatever, one is actually pulling aside the curtain and showing the wheels and pulleys and the little man trying hard to control everything behind the scenes. Every subversion that highlights the realities of code and design is also in that sense a reminder that none of this is really mystical or magical or natural: it's all just been coded to seem that way.

I agree, but it is interesting how energy or 'chi' can actually be felt in SL as well as in any other venue online that provides a real-time contact point between people.  It's remarkable to feel this when in the presence of another in the physical world, but to feel it without being physically present even more so.

Of course Reiki practitioners are trained to sense this, but some who have had no training can sense it as well.

It pretty much dissolves our common perception of what physical reality is.  Truly mystical.

Edited May 14 by Luna Bliss

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

I agree, but it is interesting how energy or 'chi' can actually be felt in SL as well as in any other venue that provides a real-time contact point between people.  It's remarkable to feel this when in the presence of another, in the physical world, but to feel it without being physically present even more so.

Of course Reiki practitioners are trained to sense this, but some who have had no training can sense it as well.

It pretty much dissolves our common perception of what physical reality is.  Truly mystical.

I'm not, as you know, what you would likely call a "spiritual person" (although I feel I am, in my own way), but I do think that SL and other platforms can legitimately function as sites of spirituality. Our experiences here in SL are different from RL, but they are in their own way no less "real."

Key though is that the spirituality is emanating from you and not from the code or the platform. A church or temple or holy place is a pile of stones or a collection of trees, until we lend it spiritual significance. Same with SL, I'd argue.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

And the very real danger is that buying into the "tech is magic!" or "tech brings us nearer to God!" argument simply turns our tech overlords into priests whom we permit to wield unlimited power over us through the ways in which they use code to reshape and ultimately control our lives. Father Zuckerberg and Father Musk know best . . .

Which, again, is what, on a more micro level, this article is about: how SL residents have resisted and subverted the dictates of the Holy Church of Linden.

Oh absolutely! That's something I hadn't considered, but you're exactly right. I know enough about the cyberpunk genre to know you never let individuals or corporations have that kind of power. 👀 I mean, I'm the sort of person who can't even fathom letting too many smart devices into my life are you kidding with this magic tech stuff. 😄

 

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Father Zuckerberg and Father Musk know best . . .

Omg. Nightmare fuel, thanks, lol.

[Luna Bliss]

23 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Key though is that the spirituality is emanating from you and not from the code or the platform.

Yes, I'm not a techno-utopian in any sense of the word. I consider this movement destructive.

Edited May 14 by Luna Bliss

[Leslie Trihey]

2 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

That's more of a mission of the forum regulars. Frankly I don't want to see any of that 'stink' as the front facing, or gateway or up front thing people see when they come here. People can do it all they want, but stop using SL to peddle a political agendar or 'social change'. It alienates as many people as it thinks it empowers, and whether or not it really gets new customers or not is up to debate. How many come for the Rainbows, and how many stay away because of the Rainbows?

I see alienating the type of people that get upset by rainbows as a win. 👍

Edited May 14 by Leslie Trihey

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

29 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I agree, but it is interesting how energy or 'chi' can actually be felt in SL as well as in any other venue that provides a real-time contact point between people.  It's remarkable to feel this when in the presence of another in the physical world, but to feel it without being physically present even more so.

Of course Reiki practitioners are trained to sense this, but some who have had no training can sense it as well.

It pretty much dissolves our common perception of what physical reality is.  Truly mystical.

From a less mystical perspective (not to discount your own interpretation in any way), it's an interesting illustration of how the human brain can adapt to interpret different stimuli as representing familiar situations, etc.

It seems that since everything we experience in either RL or SL is merely information fed to our brains via various senses, the source of the information is less important than how our brain interprets it to define our perception of reality.  In the absence of more traditional forms of social interaction and intimacy our brains are remarkably adept at finding other ways to fill the emotional and psychological voids.

Edited May 14 by Fluffy Sharkfin
typo