Will The New TOS on Child Avatars Ensnare Short Adults?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

We all know of the new war on child avatars, but any avatar under 18 will eventually be included,

from the TOS:

---------------------------------

Q: How do you define a child avatar?

A: We are relying on the community to use their best judgment to determine if they are using a child avatar or not. Creating a list of specifications for something like this can be a slippery slope, and we certainly don’t want to give out directions on how to circumvent any policies. If a reasonable person would look at the features of your avatar and consider it underage, we would recommend not engaging in adult activities on that account. Apart from considering the avatar's appearance, the team considers various other factors, such as the purpose for which the avatar is being used.

As mentioned in other Q&As, general physical characteristics that apply to adults as well as children such as avatar height, being of slim or petite build, gender identity (such as non-binary or gender non-conforming), or ethnicity are not sole or intrinsic qualities that might qualify an avatar as a child avatar.

-------------------------

I am 5 ft 5 inches tall, fully adult, have always represented myself as an adult and yet, i'm concerned.

I've not seen a clarification if under 18 avatars are allowed on A rated sims or not, obviously child avatars are banned, but no mention of say 17 year olds.

I'm short, sometimes I wear a young hair style, young looking clothes, sneakers, will all these combined cause someone to say, "oh no a child avi on adult land" when I tp home.. "AR them"?

They say height is not the determining factor, but I say it is.

If I wore the exact same outfit but was 7 ft tall, they wouldn't touch me, obviously an adult... but short... well AR them and see right?

I'm afraid the war on child avis will eventually encompass short adults, and every time you log in, you will run the risk of being ARed

Edited May 9 by BilliJo Aldrin
spelling

[stlshayne]

As has been said: we will all use our best judgement on what looks "adult" or not. 

 

In the picture you provided - the avatar has - forgive me - sizeable breasts, which I feel is adult enough. I see nothing markedly underage-looking. Height is just a single thing to take into account. 

 

Now - if this was a short, flat-chested, acne-ridden, braces-having, pigtail-wearing, Trapper Keeper holding avatar sporting a backpack, I might have a different opinion. But I don't think height is ever going be be the determining factor. 

[JacksonBollock]

7 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

We all know of the new war on child avatars, but any avatar under 18 will eventually be included,

from the TOS:

---------------------------------

Q: How do you define a child avatar?

A: We are relying on the community to use their best judgment to determine if they are using a child avatar or not. Creating a list of specifications for something like this can be a slippery slope, and we certainly don’t want to give out directions on how to circumvent any policies. If a reasonable person would look at the features of your avatar and consider it underage, we would recommend not engaging in adult activities on that account. Apart from considering the avatar's appearance, the team considers various other factors, such as the purpose for which the avatar is being used.

As mentioned in other Q&As, general physical characteristics that apply to adults as well as children such as avatar height, being of slim or petite build, gender identity (such as non-binary or gender non-conforming), or ethnicity are not sole or intrinsic qualities that might qualify an avatar as a child avatar.

-------------------------

I am 5 ft 5 inch, fully adult, have always represented myself as an adult and yet, i'm concerned.

I've not seen a clarification if under 18 avatars are allowed on A rated sims or not, obviously child avatars are banned, but no mention of say 17 year olds.

I'm short, sometimes I wear a young hair style, young looking clothes, sneakers, will all these combined cause someone to say, oh no a child avi on adult land when I tp home?

They say height is not the determing factor, but I say it is.

If I wore the exact same out but was 7 ft tall, they wouldn''t touch me, obviously an adult... but short... well AR them and see right?

I'm afraid the war on child avis will eventually encompass short adults, and every time you log in, you will run the risk of being ARed

Without the gravity defying boobs you'd look about 14.

With them you look like a LL sting operation in progress.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 minute ago, stlshayne said:

As has been said: we will all use our best judgement on what looks "adult" or not. 

 

In the picture you provided - the avatar has - forgive me - sizeable breasts, which I feel is adult enough. I see nothing markedly underage-looking. Height is just a single thing to take into account. 

 

Now - if this was a short, flat-chested, acne-ridden, braces-having, pigtail-wearing, Trapper Keeper holding avatar sporting a backpack, I might have a different opinion. But I don't think height is ever going be be the determining factor. 

 

Yea, "adult enough" to you , but what about the person reviewing an AR?

I've seen 15 year olds in RL with sizable breasts, I'd be more worried the rest of my shape.. slim hips would suggest a person under 18.

I know, i'm being paranoid, but I think I have a right to be , as should every adult  that's just over 5 ft tall

[stlshayne]

8 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

 

Yea, "adult enough" to you , but what about the person reviewing an AR?

I've seen 15 year olds in RL with sizable breasts, I'd be more worried the rest of my shape.. slim hips would suggest a person under 18.

I know, i'm being paranoid, but I think I have a right to be , as should every adult  that's just over 5 ft tall

That'd be a question for the people who review the ARs. I have decent faith that the people who do them, though, will err on the side of trusting that people - unless it's egregious - aren't portraying themselves as minors, though, since most companies like to retain their userbase and not cause a, uh, doo-doo storm. 

Edited May 9 by stlshayne

[Kathlen Onyx]

12 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

 

Yea, "adult enough" to you , but what about the person reviewing an AR?

I've seen 15 year olds in RL with sizable breasts, I'd be more worried the rest of my shape.. slim hips would suggest a person under 18.

I know, i'm being paranoid, but I think I have a right to be , as should every adult  that's just over 5 ft tall

Here is an idea. Make yourself look like an adult and not teeter on the edge. If YOU are that concerned that you might look like a teen then do something about it.

You are aware of the new rules so there is no claiming ignorance.  IF you were AR'd you'd only have yourself to blame since you are even questioning it yourself.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

22 minutes ago, stlshayne said:

That'd be a question for the people who review the ARs. I have decent faith that the people who do them, though, will err on the side of trusting that people - unless it's egregious - aren't portraying themselves as minors, though, since most companies like to retain their userbase and not cause a, uh, doo-doo storm. 

That's the point, my continued existence on SL shouldn't have to depend on the good judgement of people reviewing AR's.

I've been here over 14 years, but have never felt my SL existence is as threatened as it is right now.

And its too late, LL has already started the storm, with its new TOS. The only question is how far will it rage, and how many innocent people will it encompass, and ultimately destroy

Edited May 9 by BilliJo Aldrin
aded a line

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Here is an idea. Make yourself look like an adult and not teeter on the edge. If YOU are that concerned that you might look like a teen then do something about it.

You are aware of the new rules so there is no claiming ignorance.  IF you were AR'd you'd only have yourself to blame since you are even questioning it yourself.

I'm not teetering on the edge, I look at myself and see an adult, a fully grown, realistic height adult.

Of course around the 7 and 8 ft tall freaks that populate SL, some might say, oh look a child, better AR her.

 

[stlshayne]

As I've said, I don't think it'll ever be height-dependant. The avatar looks reasonably post-pubescent to me at least. If you're going around shopping and clubbing, I'd imagine you'd be fine. If you like to roleplay at high schools, you might need to reassess and make adjustments as to if you look above or below 18. 

[elleevelyn]

27 minutes ago, stlshayne said:

Now - if this was a short, flat-chested, acne-ridden, braces-having, pigtail-wearing, Trapper Keeper holding avatar sporting a backpack, I might have a different opinion. But I don't think height is ever going be be the determining factor. 

lucky for me then that I am not short. Altho tbh I have no idea what a Trapper Keeper is altho I do have a backpack. And neko ears and neko tail and chibi wings. But I am not short so I am good yes

[Sid Nagy]

Same song in a new thread.
Will it make over 200 pages of rinse and repeat too?

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

3 minutes ago, stlshayne said:

As I've said, I don't think it'll ever be height-dependant. The avatar looks reasonably post-pubescent to me at least. If you're going around shopping and clubbing, I'd imagine you'd be fine. If you like to roleplay at high schools, you might need to reassess and make adjustments as to if you look above or below 18. 

LOL, keep your clothes on and you will be fine, great.

I don't rp, and I'm too old for high school anyway.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Same song in a new thread.
Will it make over 200 pages of rinse and repeat too?

 

They locked the other thread didn't they? I set the topic on this one, so until someone hijacks it, it can go on indefinitely.

I am asking a legitimate question, if you choose to mock it, that's fine.

 

Edited May 9 by BilliJo Aldrin
added a line

[stlshayne]

3 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

LOL, keep your clothes on and you will be fine, great.

I don't rp, and I'm too old for high school anyway.

I never said your clothes had to be on. did I? I said your avatar looked adult to me, but if you got into situations like school roleplay it might get into context dependency. 

[Sid Nagy]

7 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

They locked the other thread didn't they? I set the topic on this one, so until someone hijacks it, it can go on indefinitely.

I am asking a legitimate question, if you choose to mock it, that's fine.

 

The answer has been given dozens of times already in several threads.
But carry on talking in circles as long as you like.

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

13 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

The answer has been given dozens of times already in several threads.
But carry on talking in circles as long as you like.

 

What was the answer? I wanna know.

At what height will you no longer be considered underage?

Perhaps LL should add a single line to the TOS. "To be considered an adult, you avatar must be over "X" feet tall.

As I already posted, be 5 ft 5 and look a certain way.... ooo its a child report it, be 7 ft and look the exact same, oh it's ok, its an adult carry on.

I say height is ALWAYS the determining factor

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

25 minutes ago, stlshayne said:

I never said your clothes had to be on. did I? I said your avatar looked adult to me, but if you got into situations like school roleplay it might get into context dependency. 

It looks adult to you, thats cool, you won't AR me, but to the next person, if I don't look like an adult to them... AR em

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Al

19 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

The answer has been given dozens of times already in several threads.
But carry on talking in circles as long as you like.

 

Can I assume you won't be commenting any more in here, since you obviously consider this thread a waste of time?

I assure you, there are many many short adults that have the same concern as me, and that really hasn't been addressed, except in the negative.

[Jaylinbridges]

You have nothing to worry about.  Those ears define your avatar as a bunny rabbit, and not a non adult appearing human, eg Child.  I would add a short tail as an added precaution.

Animal avatars are not part of the child AP rules.  Although that is one of the unanswered questions.  The most important question IMO. I have nothing covering my rear end openings as a cat.  I am afraid to leave my skybox now.

 

Edited May 9 by Jaylinbridges

[JacksonBollock]

5 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

What was the answer? I wanna know.

At what height will you no longer be considered underage?

Perhaps LL should add a single line to the TOS. "To be considered an adult, you avatar must be over "X" feet tall.

As I already posted, be 5 ft 5 and look a certain way.... ooo its a child report it, be 7 ft and look the exact same, oh it's ok, its an adult carry on.

I say height is ALWAYS the determining factor

 

It's all a bit of a circular discussion, but there are normally 6 or so visual cues.

A combination of these generally contributes to developing a somewhat accurate perception of age - hardly ever just one in isolation.

1. Proportions: Adult and child avatars can be differentiated based on body proportions. Children have larger heads in relation to their bodies, shorter limbs, and more rounded facial features. Adults typically have longer legs and arms relative to their torso, and their heads are smaller in proportion to their bodies.
    
2. Facial Features: Adults tend to have more defined facial features, such as sharper jawlines and more pronounced cheekbones, whereas children's faces are generally softer and less angular.
    
3. Textures and Skin: The texture used for skin can indicate age. Adult avatars might have more detailed textures that include subtle signs of aging like wrinkles or less elasticity, whereas child avatars often have smoother, more uniform skin.
    
4. Clothing and Style: The way avatars are dressed can also provide cues. Adults might wear more sophisticated, complex, or professional clothing, while children's attire often includes brighter colors, simpler patterns, and more casual styles.
    
5. Animations and Gestures: The movement of an avatar can give age-related clues. Adult avatars might have animations that reflect more mature behaviors, while child avatars might have movements that are more playful and less restrained.
    
6. Height in Environmental Context: In addition to the raw measurement of height, how height is portrayed in relation to other objects and avatars in the environment can provide context that helps in differentiating ages.

[Sid Nagy]

From the faq:

Q: Does the height or gender of my avatar define it as a child avatar?

A: No. We review many factors from an Abuse Report to come to a final conclusion, and height or gender alone are not grounds for Governance action.

Edited May 9 by Sid Nagy

[brodiac90]

3 minutes ago, JacksonBollock said:

It's all a bit of a circular discussion, but there are normally 6 or so visual cues.

A combination of these generally contributes to developing a somewhat accurate perception of age - hardly ever just one in isolation.

1. Proportions: Adult and child avatars can be differentiated based on body proportions. Children have larger heads in relation to their bodies, shorter limbs, and more rounded facial features. Adults typically have longer legs and arms relative to their torso, and their heads are smaller in proportion to their bodies.
    
2. Facial Features: Adults tend to have more defined facial features, such as sharper jawlines and more pronounced cheekbones, whereas children's faces are generally softer and less angular.
    
3. Textures and Skin: The texture used for skin can indicate age. Adult avatars might have more detailed textures that include subtle signs of aging like wrinkles or less elasticity, whereas child avatars often have smoother, more uniform skin.
    
4. Clothing and Style: The way avatars are dressed can also provide cues. Adults might wear more sophisticated, complex, or professional clothing, while children's attire often includes brighter colors, simpler patterns, and more casual styles.
    
5. Animations and Gestures: The movement of an avatar can give age-related clues. Adult avatars might have animations that reflect more mature behaviors, while child avatars might have movements that are more playful and less restrained.
    
6. Height in Environmental Context: In addition to the raw measurement of height, how height is portrayed in relation to other objects and avatars in the environment can provide context that helps in differentiating ages.

I agree but would also add 3 things. 

1. Profile content including things like their profile picture, description, picks and groups. 

2. How they talk and act. 

3. The sorts of accessories they have or are wearing - children are more likely to be holding things like toys, teddy bears, games, candy and anything else usually associated with children. 

[Dorientje Woller]

17 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Al

Can I assume you won't be commenting any more in here, since you obviously consider this thread a waste of time?

I assure you, there are many many short adults that have the same concern as me, and that really hasn't been addressed, except in the negative.

This is what I mention in my RL tab of my profile:

"Anyone that has troubles with the height and size of my avatar in here, let me be so bold to tell you that not everyone is granted with supermodel sizes. I am slender and petite in real life and my avatar is a reflection of me." There was a second part on it too: "Anyone who objects to my avatar, please file your complaints with my parents, coz I haven't created myself".

[Kathlen Onyx]

15 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

It looks adult to you, thats cool, you won't AR me, but to the next person, if I don't look like an adult to them... AR em

You post a picture where we can't tell how tall you are.  LL is never going to tell at what height you won't be considered a child because they have already said it's not the ONLY factor in determining if you are underage or not.  What you are asking for the FAQ's already stated they are not going to give an exact height.  You want a guarantee that no one will AR you for looking underage and you just are not going to get that.

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

8 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

From the faq:

Q: Does the height or gender of my avatar define it as a child avatar?

A: No. We review many factors from an Abuse Report to come to a final conclusion, and height or gender alone are not grounds for Governance action.

Don't bother. She already KNOWS all this.  It's just a way to continue the other thread because it was locked.