Thunes to acquire payments platform Tilia LLC

[Love Zhaoying]

5 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Does that sound like a valid concern to you?

I suppose if everyone's concerns are equally valid then sure, why not?

I think the part that sounds "not based in reality" is the scenario where money is taken from your account and Thunes just laughs at you; that won't go over well at all with the credit card companies, banks, PayPal, etc. and Thunes won't be able to "keep" your money. (If you are not familiar with the process: you just challenge the charge with your bank/credit card company/etc.)

But other than that, sure. Why not? Your ideas are just as valid as mine.

Edited April 30 by Love Zhaoying

[Love Zhaoying]

7 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Amount they are actually doing.

About 15,000,000.000 USD a year.

Doesn't this figure imply that adding the transactions for all Second Life customers will significantly increase the amount of "international transfers" that Thunes performs?  (The Second Life economy is much bigger than US$15M/year, and includes many international users.)

I think it is significant, thanks for pointing out the numbers. (I like how you qualified your figures with "about".)

I did not notice the observation in your in-depth analyses that adding Second Life business would significantly increase the amount processed by Thunes, if your figures are correct.

 

[elleevelyn]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

*A tangent: I don't think we know how much equity the Lab might still hold in Thunes' ex-Tilia business unit (nor who else might still have a share). Do we? Thunes clearly bought the controlling stake, but I somehow don't think the asset is simply blended into their operational accounting.

i read on Inara blog that there is going to be some kind of townhall on May 20 where we may get some further tea leaves to ponder

[Jaylinbridges]

11 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Doesn't this figure imply that adding the transactions for all Second Life customers will significantly increase the amount of "international transfers" that Thunes performs?  (The Second Life economy is much bigger than US$15M/year, and includes many international users.)

Thunes claimed about $15 Billion in transactions last year, with a plan for $20-$25 Billion in the coming year.  They have done $65 Billion since they started.

"Since its launch eight years ago, Thunes has processed $65 billion in volume, charge a single fee each time it moves money that it says substantially undercuts the cost of traditional money transfers."

Second Life claims a $650 Million annual economy.  If that means $650 Million in transactions in and out, then that is only $0.65 Billion/year.  $0.65 Billion is a small part (3%) of Thunes $20 Billion/yr in transactions.  Clearly, SL will hardly make a dent in Thunes transfer volume.  

$ amounts all in USD.

 

Edited April 30 by Jaylinbridges

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Doesn't this figure imply that adding the transactions for all Second Life customers will significantly increase the amount of "international transfers" that Thunes performs? 

No.

SL's 0.5 Billion a year vs Thunes 15 billion a year. There's a typo, i hit . instead of ,. It was late and I was tired. So bite me.

 

5 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

The Second Life economy is much bigger than US$15M/year

That's 15 BILLION not 15 Million. About 30 times what SL's total turnover is.

 

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I did not notice the observation in your in-depth analyses that adding Second Life business would significantly increase the amount processed by Thunes, if your figures are correct.

SL would add about 1/30 th, and if Uncle Brad's claims that Tilla was "too expensive to keep, a millstone round SL's neck, etc., etc., etc., then Thunes won't be making any significant profit off SL, you can't have it booth ways, you can't believe Brad when he says "tilla too expensive to run" and believe Thunes will make money off SL.

 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Thunes claimed about $15 Billion in transactions last year, with a plan for $20-$25 Billion in the coming year.  They have made $65 Billion since they started.

"Since its launch eight years ago, Thunes has processed $65 billion in volume, charge a single fee each time it moves money that it says substantially undercuts the cost of traditional money transfers."

Second Life claims a $650 Million annual economy.  If that means $650 Million in transactions in and out, then that is only $0.65 Billion/year.  $0.65 Billion is a small part (3%) of Thunes $20 Billion/yr in transactions.  Clearly, SL will hardly make a dent in Thunes transfer volume.  

$ amounts all in USD.

I'm open-minded, I don't know where Zalificent got her figures.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

No.

SL's 0.5 Billion a year vs Thunes 15 billion a year. There's a typo, i hit . instead of ,. It was late and I was tired. So bite me.

Sorry, let me know if I should wait 10-12 hours every day before interpreting your posts and quoting figures. 🙂

Or, I could have questioned your figures, but I assumed you are precise since you are very self-assured in your posts!

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Sorry, let me know if I should wait 10-12 hours every day before interpreting your posts and quoting figures. 🙂

Or, I could have questioned your figures, but I assumed you are precise since you are very self-assured in your posts!

 

Well the THREE zeros after the typo might have been a clue, as people don't mention dollars to 1/10th of a cent, and since NONE of the other figures included fractions of a dollar.

And you question everything, looking for the "silver lining" that would enable another "Cult of Pointless Positivity" head in the sand post.

[Jaylinbridges]

14 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

The Second Life economy is much bigger than US$15M/year

I didn't say that, Love did. I know, screwed up quoting system here.  

12 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Sorry, let me know if I should wait 10-12 hours every day before interpreting your posts and quoting figures

Or you could have simply checked Thunes transactions, on one of a dozen financial sites.  It was an obvious typo, so I didn't think it was worse mentioning.  

(Changed earnings to transactions - I don't think Thumes is profitable yet, since they keep needing venture capital.)

Edited April 30 by Jaylinbridges

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

And you question everything, looking for the "silver lining" that would enable another "Cult of Pointless Positivity" head in the sand post.

"Everything"? That's interesting. I'm sorry that any positive viewpoint offends you so, that you stoop to insults. I am sad for you!

3 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Well the THREE zeros after the typo might have been a clue, as people don't mention dollars to 1/10th of a cent,

I figured the typo was the extra zero after the decimal point.  

4 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

and since NONE of the other figures included fractions of a dollar.

Ahh, thanks! I will adjust my analytical method to account for that in the future!

 

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

12 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Sorry, let me know if I should wait 10-12 hours every day before interpreting your posts and quoting figures

Or you could have simply checked Thunes earnings, on one of a dozen financial sites.  It was an obvious type, so I didn't think it was worse mentioning.  

See my response to Zal, it is awkward to consider the possibility that she may be unintentionally "in error", rather than purely "wrong"!

[Jaylinbridges]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

See my response to Zal, it is awkward to consider the possibility that she may be unintentionally "in error", rather than purely "wrong"!

Yes !  

Edited April 30 by Jaylinbridges

[Zalificent Corvinus]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I'm open-minded, I don't know where Zalificent got her figures.

I did say you could GOOGLE for Thunes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidprosser/2023/06/08/thunes-takes-aim-at-a-60-trillion-market-opportunity-in-payments/

 

"Around $150 trillion of payments go through [the banking industry’s international money transfer network] Swift and the correspondent banks each year,"

 

That's one source, thereare others, some claim Thunes are chasing 45 Trillion in crypto-tax evasion business, others say 15 trillion, some claim they made 90 billion upto last summer, some say 65 billion. The sheer lack of clarity is another red flag.

 

This is the problem with crypto-crap tax evasion services. The stuff is DESIGNED to be hard to track and trace. 

For example, a criminal in France can move their illegally laundered money via Thunes from a real bank account, to Mpesa, a crypto money hider service in Kenya, and then to GoPay, in Indonesia, and then onto a USB crypto wallet stick, and take that to Laos, and "invest" it in illegal opiates, and it's almost impossible to trace once the funds goo crypto.

 

So, Thunes talk about how they "connect 3 billion crypto wallets to 4 billion nbank accounts" is worrying, and questionable at the same time, as that doesn't ACTUALLY bean they have 4 billion customers, just that their network POTENTIALLY connects them to that many wallets and accounts. Not that they actually ARE dealing with that many.

 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

6 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Does that sound like a valid concern to you?

I suppose if everyone's concerns are equally valid then sure, why not?

I think the part that sounds "not based in reality" is the scenario where money is taken from your account and Thunes just laughs at you; that won't go over well at all with the credit card companies, banks, PayPal, etc. and Thunes won't be able to "keep" your money. (If you are not familiar with the process: you just challenge the charge with your bank/credit card company/etc.)

But other than that, sure. Why not? Your ideas are just as valid as mine.

I am tickled that this did not get disputed.

Either I snuck this one by, or..*gasp* I won a point!

 

[Innula Zenovka]

22 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

SL would add about 1/30 th, and if Uncle Brad's claims that Tilla was "too expensive to keep, a millstone round SL's neck, etc., etc., etc., then Thunes won't be making any significant profit off SL, you can't have it booth ways, you can't believe Brad when he says "tilla too expensive to run" and believe Thunes will make money off SL.

I took his remarks to mean that Tilia has high fixed costs, and recovering these solely from transaction charges paid by users was not possible because the small number of users would have made the charges insupportably high.   

Thunes brings far more customers and transactions to the table, thus greatly reducing the amount they need to charge on each transaction to cover these fixed costs.

Edited April 30 by Innula Zenovka

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

25 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I'm open-minded, I don't know where Zalificent got her figures.

I did say you could GOOGLE for Thunes.

Sorry, if you post something, I expect you to post correct information. I'm just silly that way.

5 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

So, Thunes talk about how they "connect 3 billion crypto wallets to 4 billion nbank accounts" is worrying, and questionable at the same time, as that doesn't ACTUALLY bean they have 4 billion customers, just that their network POTENTIALLY connects them to that many wallets and accounts. Not that they actually ARE dealing with that many.

Since you brought it up earlier: Nobody is saying US users want to use Crypto to hide their money..except you!

I have never seen posts about that in the forum, except some Crypto-bros making silly statements that LL should use Blockchain. That's not the same.

Except when you brought it up, saying that all Americans want to "hide their money", etc.  Sorry, that's not cool.

ETA: TIL, this (your attitude) is possibly an example of "jingoism"! Cool!

Edited April 30 by Love Zhaoying

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I am tickled that this did not get disputed.

Either I snuck this one by, or..*gasp* I won a point!

No point in disputing it. Thescenario of funds vanishing into Thunes and noot coming out again is the substance of basically all the negative reviews the company got on TrustPilot,.

I did say that, if you choose to dispute those reviews, thats a YOU thing.

Not my problem.

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

want to use Crypto to hide their money

Hiding money from Tax men and Law Enforcement is what crypto was invented for. It has NO legitimate uses.

 

Thunes is already moving crypto for Money Hiders in other parts of the world, acquisition of  American MTL's would allow access to the American market for Money Hiding. That's kind of the point.

Company that admits to specialising in moving in crypto, wants access to move crypto in the USA.

 

Edited April 30 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

No point in disputing it. Thescenario of funds vanishing into Thunes and noot coming out again is the substance of basically all the negative reviews the company got on TrustPilot,.

I did say that, if you choose to dispute those reviews, thats a YOU thing.

Not my problem.

 

Ah, sorry - I missed the fact you were referencing "actual reviews". It is genuinely difficult to parse your posts with all the rants.  What's a fact? What's hyperbole? What's a rant? Hard to tell.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Zalificent Corvinus said:

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

want to use Crypto to hide their money

Hiding money from Tax men and Law Enforcement is what crypto was invented for. It has NO legitimate uses.

Again: I have seen no info that people are en mass doing that.  Most people know their money is not safe with any crypto currency.  Maybe your local country's Press paints Americans with some weird brush.

[Love Zhaoying]

Real Life calls! Enjoy discussing amongst yourselves!

(Or "ranting", as it were.)

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

26 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Ahh, thanks! I will adjust my analytical method to account for that in the future!

Is that the same "analytical method" that caused to to suggest that maybe Thunes would finally allow people to pay for SL with Paypal?

Despite that having already been a thing for over a decade and a half ? You seem to have a habit of POSITIVELY suggesting cool new things, that we ALREADY have and have had for over a decade.

 

You need a NEW method. One that actually works.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Is that the same "analytical method" that caused to to suggest that maybe Thunes would finally allow people to pay for SL with Paypal?

Despite that having already been a thing for over a decade and a half ? You seem to have a habit of POSITIVELY suggesting cool new things, that we ALREADY have and have had for over a decade.

 

You need a NEW method. One that actually works.

Well you see, I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. I thanked the other person who let me know PayPal has been an option for awhile.

Your response when replying about making an error was: "bite me".

See the difference? 

ETA: I meant "analyzing" YOUR posts; trying to understand them. Making sense of them.

Edited April 30 by Love Zhaoying

[Coffee Pancake]

11 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Tilla appears to be a quicker, easier, and cheaper way of getting 48 Money Transfer Licences in the USA, than doing it them selves from scratch.

If that's how little Tilia went for ... we have about 2 years to come up with an alternative for the SL economy

[Persephone Emerald]

3 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

No.

SL's 0.5 Billion a year vs Thunes 15 billion a year. There's a typo, i hit . instead of ,. It was late and I was tired. So bite me.

 

That's 15 BILLION not 15 Million. About 30 times what SL's total turnover is.

 

SL would add about 1/30 th, and if Uncle Brad's claims that Tilla was "too expensive to keep, a millstone round SL's neck, etc., etc., etc., then Thunes won't be making any significant profit off SL, you can't have it booth ways, you can't believe Brad when he says "tilla too expensive to run" and believe Thunes will make money off SL.

Brad/Oberwolf said the primary advantage for Thunes in this deal is that they will aquire the licenses Tillia holds that allows them to operate in the US (50 states, each with their own license - or is it only 48 licenses?). Thunes thus gains access to the whole US market for their services, which is a huge financial benefit to them. Linden Lab unloads Tillia, which was not as profitable as they'd hoped because they couldn't get enough other gaming companies to pay for using its services. Thunes *might* be able to market it better.

Even if they don't, what Thunes really wants are those licenses. After the 5 year deal, we'll see what happens, but until then SL is safe.

Edited April 30 by Persephone Emerald