So I am into the findom fetish, and if I use rlv to take money from someone then they regret it can I be in trouble?

[DlRUS Rage]

I recently had an encounter with a sub who gave me a considerable amount of L and then afterwards they regretted it so I gave it back to them, because I am nice. but it got me to thinking if I didn't would I have gotten in trouble?

[Lindal Kidd]

Your post title is considerably different from how you explain the situation in your post.

RLV does not allow you to forcibly take $L from someone, even if they consented to that. They must (as you explain in your post) actually voluntarily send you the $L.

If you wanted to be a strict findomme, you would not get in trouble with LL if you kept a gift. All such payments are considered to be the choice of the payer.

(I'm nice too, and if it were me, like you and like Wulfie, I'd return the money. But you don't have to.)

[Lindal Kidd]

7 minutes ago, belindacarson said:

Incorrect.

 

There are items, that you grant debit permissions to, that can allow somebody to check your l$ balance, and take your l$.

 

This only works when the wearer specifically activates the device so it is their choice to do so, ie consensual.

 

do a search on the marketplace for rlv wallet and you'll see some of these items.

That is different from RLV. You're speaking of objects that request debit permissions. Yep, those exist. Some are quite legitimate, like rent boxes and tip jars. They need this permission in order to grant refunds or share revenue with group members. Some are used by scammers to take money from you, and you should NEVER allow an object someone gives you (as opposed to something you bought) to have this permission.

RLV does not, in itself, have this "feature". The RLV wallets you mention are indeed very nasty devices, making use of both RLV restrictions (you can't take the sucker off) AND the debit permission LSL call (once you grant permission, the object can take money from you as long as it is worn/rezzed in world).

[Lindal Kidd]

15 hours ago, DlRUS Rage said:

 

Your misunderstanding isn't really answering my question they are busy answering you, please don't answer in areas you aren't experienced in.

I'll be just as stupid as I want, so there. As for "not experienced", I taught the definitive course in Second Life safety for over ten years, me bucko.

[Quartz Mole]

On 10/19/2023 at 3:54 PM, belindacarson said:

There are items, that you grant debit permissions to, that can allow somebody to check your l$ balance, and take your l$.

A scripted object belonging to you can take money out of your account and give it to someone else if you rez it and grant it debit permissions.    It can't, though, check your L$ balance, either with regular LSL or with RLV. Neither experience permissions nor RLV can automatically grant debit permissions to a script -- they have to be granted manually, by clicking OK in the big scary debit permissions dialog box.

Once an object has debit permissions it could drain your account very rapidly, using a method I won't spell out but which will readily occur to most scripters, which is why you should never grant debit permissions to an object someone else gives you unless you're very sure you trust them, but it can't check your L$ balance and remove the lot in one go.  

On 10/18/2023 at 6:13 AM, DlRUS Rage said:

I recently had an encounter with a sub who gave me a considerable amount of L and then afterwards they regretted it so I gave it back to them, because I am nice. but it got me to thinking if I didn't would I have gotten in trouble?

If the person who'd given you the L$ filed an abuse report, the Governance Team would investigate the matter.    The outcome -- and consequences for for you, if any -- would, I assume, depend on the specific circumstances surrounding the case.   

I'm locking the thread, since the question has been answered and because tempers seem to be getting frayed.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

Maybe?

Even if it wasn't against any rules and you couldn't get into trouble with LL, it feels wrong to keep money that was given during fetishplay if they regret it, at least when it's "a large amount."

In that situation, the right thing to do would be to give it back, and stop findomming that person if they're prone to regret.

If it can't be given back because it was already spent, then the right thing to do would be to just stop taking more.

Findom is a consent thing, without that it's just stealing. 😋

 

For what it's worth, LL has access to all IMs between you and that other person. If it's very clear that the person was okay with you taking the money with scripts, you should be fine. Otherwise I imagine LL would rather treat it as fraud.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Wulfie Reanimator

[animats]

3 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Some are used by scammers to take money from you, and you should NEVER allow an object someone gives you (as opposed to something you bought) to have this permission.

Maybe protections against objects that can debit should be stronger. Require both an experience permission and the yellow popup. LL takes abuse by experiences seriously, because they give objects considerable power over avatars and have griefing potential.

Quote

"In order to create an experience, you must first obtain an experience key from Linden Lab. Experience keys uniquely identify your experience and allow you to use the powerful experience functions in LSL. Abusive experiences may also be reported by experience key, allowing Linden Lab's customer support team to investigate and manage the situation accordingly. Experience keys are only available to Premium members."

[Lindal Kidd]

Quite right, Wulfie. Frankly, I had not seen "RLV wallets" until Belinda pointed them out. I expect I was drawing a fine distinction at least in part to prove I wasn't wrong. And I'm not, technically.

But yeah, these are potentially very nasty critters, all technical distinctions aside.

[belindacarson]

22 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

RLV does not allow you to forcibly take $L from someone, even if they consented to that. They must (as you explain in your post) actually voluntarily send you the $L.

If you wanted to b

Incorrect.

 

There are items, that you grant debit permissions to, that can allow somebody to check your l$ balance, and take your l$.

 

This only works when the wearer specifically activates the device so it is their choice to do so, ie consensual.

 

do a search on the marketplace for rlv wallet and you'll see some of these items.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

24 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

That is different from RLV.

Most people have no idea where the boundary between LSL and RLV is. 😋

I wouldn't focus on specific terms like this, same with OP's interchangeable use of "give/take." We still get the idea. (I say this to both of you.)

Edited October 19, 2023 by Wulfie Reanimator

[DlRUS Rage]

On 10/18/2023 at 12:42 PM, Lindal Kidd said:

Your post title is considerably different from how you explain the situation in your post.

RLV does not allow you to forcibly take $L from someone, even if they consented to that. They must (as you explain in your post) actually voluntarily send you the $L.

If you wanted to be a strict findomme, you would not get in trouble with LL if you kept a gift. All such payments are considered to be the choice of the payer.

(I'm nice too, and if it were me, like you and like Wulfie, I'd return the money. But you don't have to.)

 

19 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Quite right, Wulfie. Frankly, I had not seen "RLV wallets" until Belinda pointed them out. I expect I was drawing a fine distinction at least in part to prove I wasn't wrong. And I'm not, technically.

But yeah, these are potentially very nasty critters, all technical distinctions aside.

Your misunderstanding isn't really answering my question they are busy answering you, please don't answer in areas you aren't experienced in.

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, DlRUS Rage said:

 

Your misunderstanding isn't really answering my question they are busy answering you, please don't answer in areas you aren't experienced in.

Her answer was correct.  You said RLV was being used to TAKE the money when in fact, it is LSL that has been allowed to GIVE you money.  RLV itself does not have that function. RLV locks the wallet but LSL gives the consent to take the money.  

Whether you find the information useful or not, others might.