Farthington Whetmore Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 16 years in SL using the SL Viewer and I have never had such an annoying change to all my graphic and lighting settings as a result of this recent update: I now have to crank Brightness (exposure) setting to 1.5 even in Midday... Also the Show Invisible option in the Highlighting and Invisibility menu is no longer there... What's going on? Thanks for your help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Sorry, I'm not going to be much help, but I'm pretty sure somebody who can help would want to know a couple things: This recent update, that's the new 7.0.0.580717 - GLTF Material Import project viewer, right? Is your display set to use HDR? If so, is there any chance it started using a new calibration profile coincident with the update? Come to think of it, you may want to supply all the text in the Help / About Second Life window, using the handy "Copy to Clipboard" button. Somebody who actually knows something would likely want other details there. (Even less helpful tangent: At first I wondered if the "recent update" might have been the new Windows 11 update that's given me a hard time, though nothing display related. But it's evidently the viewer update at issue because, yeah, I too see no "Highlight Transparent" option in the Advanced menu, at least in that new project viewer. To be honest, I never knew that's where "Highlight Transparent" lives, having learned Ctrl+Alt+T before ever seeing it on that menu.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elleevelyn Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: This recent update, that's the new 7.0.0.580717 - GLTF Material Import project viewer, right? yes, i think OP is talking about the 7.x project viewer. The latest: Second Life Release 6.6.13.580700 (64bit) has the Highlight Transparent option on menu Advanced \ Highlighting and Visibility as expected 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Dan Linden Posted July 7, 2023 Lindens Share Posted July 7, 2023 Highlight Transparent has been moved to the Build > Options menu so it is available to anyone without the need to enable the Advanced menu. I also want to call out the handy menu filter in the top bar, just left of your L$ balance, where you can type "transparent" and all relevant menus remain visible. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always Incognito Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Its an old posting, did u solve it? I have the same situation. I have to use windlight Studio Light to see what Im doing 😅 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Always Incognito said: Its an old posting, did u solve it? I have the same situation. I have to use windlight Studio Light to see what Im doing 😅 And I have the same question: Is this with the PBR project viewer, version 7.mumble? I've noticed that it does indeed get very dark compared to other viewers in many lighting conditions, but if you're seeing this with an updated 6.something viewer, that's something else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always Incognito Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: And I have the same question: Is this with the PBR project viewer, version 7.mumble? I've noticed that it does indeed get very dark compared to other viewers in many lighting conditions, but if you're seeing this with an updated 6.something viewer, that's something else. I dunno? Ill try to have a look after work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always Incognito Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 6 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: And I have the same question: Is this with the PBR project viewer, version 7.mumble? I've noticed that it does indeed get very dark compared to other viewers in many lighting conditions, but if you're seeing this with an updated 6.something viewer, that's something else. I just paste from SL "about" here as i cant tell: Second Life Release 7.0.0.580782 (64bit) Release Notes You are at 237.2, 35.0, 29.8 in Sweetbay located at simhost-02e93ee9d8e4e7516.agni SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Sweetbay/237/35/30 (global coordinates 257,773.0, 259,619.0, 29.8) Second Life Server 2023-06-09.580543 Release Notes CPU: 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-11700KF @ 3.60GHz (3599.86 MHz) Memory: 32505 MB OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10/11 64-bit (Build 22621.1992) Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080/PCIe/SSE2 Windows Graphics Driver Version: 31.0.15.3203 OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 532.03 Window size: 2560x1369 Font Size Adjustment: 96pt UI Scaling: 1 Draw distance: 128m Bandwidth: 10000kbit/s LOD factor: 1.75 Render quality: 5 Advanced Lighting Model: Enabled Texture memory: 9299MB Disk cache: Max size 1638.4 MB (56.8% used) J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.10.4 Audio Driver Version: FMOD Studio 2.02.13 Dullahan: 1.12.4.202209142021 CEF: 91.1.21+g9dd45fe+chromium-91.0.4472.114 Chromium: 91.0.4472.114 LibVLC Version: 3.0.16 Voice Server Version: Vivox 4.10.0000.32327.5fc3fe7c.571099 Packets Lost: 279/12,790 (2.2%) July 25 2023 07:59:52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Yep, it's that first line, the viewer is 7.0.etc, so it's the PBR project viewer (or maybe it's a candidate view now, dunno). And yeah, it looks very dark for me, too, kinda as if the gamma has been cranked too far. Pretty sure they're still tweaking that, along with other things to make it match the pre-PBR conditions as much as practical. Just to add confusion: eventually in the PBR project they intend to make it possible for terrain to have the new glTF materials, and that'll be another thing that will look very different (and generally much better). Meanwhile, on Mainland, we've had a markedly dimmer mid-day illumination ever since EEP, which they could have fixed any time but I'm guessing they're now waiting for all the PBR changes to kick in, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardy Lay Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Dark at mid-day? Really? I don't see that at all, unless I have shadows enabled and I am in deep shade, like, in a house or under a huge tree or under a rock. What's the dynamic range of PBR compared to what we have in older viewers? I am seeing that the dynamic range seems to be much greater. Sunlight is BRIGHT, except where it doesn't fall. The inside of a sealed box is dark at Noon, if shadows are enabled. The irrational background illumination on all objects from all directions is apparently gone, as it should be. Script those local light to shut off when the Sun is up to lessen the burden. I love messing with people that override environment to Midnight then complain about the darkness! Where it's dark, add a light source. Where it's cold, wear appropriate clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Beauchamp Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ardy Lay said: Dark at mid-day? Really? More exactly, more contrasted... The new PBR renderer is using a HDR (high dynamic range) color scale to render the scene, instead of a ”linear” scale. If you got a HDR monitor, with contrast not set too high, it might pass, but others will find the scene overexposed under the Sun and underexposed inside a building or under shadows... The latest code (the PBR viewer changed several times regarding which color scale it uses) uses HDR for new extended environment sky settings with a non-zero ”reflection probe ambiance” parameter, and forces HDR off (linear colors on) when that parameter is set at 0. For legacy sky settings (the ones that do not have a ”reflection probe ambiance” parameter at all), the default is to ”auto-adjust” to HDR (i.e. force HDR on), so legacy scenes with legacy sky will definitely look different... You may change this by changing the ”RenderSkyAutoAdjustLegacy” debug setting to FALSE, which will then cause the viewer to render scenes under a legacy sky in the linear color scale. I find it sad that 1.- the default for that settings is not FALSE and 2.- that it is not exposed in the menus (e.g. next to the environment settings options). I would also like to see a setting to force HDR off, including under new skies with a non-zero reflection probe ambiance: after all, LL cannot control what type of monitor you got... Edited July 25, 2023 by Henri Beauchamp 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Just recalling the VERY LONG AND PAINFUL switch to EEP. That "your stuff will still look OK" idea is certainly questionable and not so surprisingly. I hope they don't switch over before they have things solved this time. Hopefully those lessons have been learned. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardy Lay Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) I don't feel like I am having troubles with it. Second Life Release 7.0.0.580782 (64bit) Release Notes You are at 217.1, 168.2, 61.6 in Lusk located at simhost-0492fe10b030d1133.agni SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Lusk/217/168/62 (global coordinates 255,705.0, 256,680.0, 61.6) Second Life Server 2023-06-09.580543 Release Notes CPU: 13th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-13900K (2995.2 MHz) Memory: 32509 MB OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10/11 64-bit (Build 22621.1992) Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080/PCIe/SSE2 Windows Graphics Driver Version: 31.0.15.3168 OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 531.68 Window size: 1919x1169 Font Size Adjustment: 96pt UI Scaling: 1 Draw distance: 64m Bandwidth: 10000kbit/s LOD factor: 4 Render quality: 5 Advanced Lighting Model: Enabled Texture memory: 15296MB Disk cache: Max size 1638.4 MB (100.0% used) J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.10.4 Audio Driver Version: FMOD Studio 2.02.13 Dullahan: 1.12.4.202209142021 CEF: 91.1.21+g9dd45fe+chromium-91.0.4472.114 Chromium: 91.0.4472.114 LibVLC Version: 3.0.16 Voice Server Version: Not Connected Packets Lost: 2/5,319 (0.0%) July 25 2023 15:27:26 Edited July 25, 2023 by Ardy Lay 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardy Lay Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) I should probably add that I am not using your monitor to view Second Life. I am using my monitor. That can make a huge difference! This setting is very colorful. Like, it's Kodachrome advertisement colorful, and that is quite deliberate. I use a monitor rated for HDR-1000 that has been color-calibrated recently. It looks so good compared to what I was using that the old monitors got relegated to back-office work. Edited July 25, 2023 by Ardy Lay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Beauchamp Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 15 minutes ago, Ardy Lay said: Like, it's Kodachrome advertisement colorful, and that is quite deliberate. Not my taste... But just a question of taste, of course... 😜 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardy Lay Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) Hmm, perhaps I should increase the size of the "Disk cache." Texture memory: 15296MBDisk cache: Max size 1638.4 MB (100.0% used) Oh, I see. It's set to 4096MB and just hasn't gotten there yet or has purged textures that haven't been used for a bit. Edited July 25, 2023 by Ardy Lay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chike Nightingale Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Ardy Lay said: I don't feel like I am having troubles with it. Second Life Release 7.0.0.580782 (64bit) Release Notes You are at 217.1, 168.2, 61.6 in Lusk located at simhost-0492fe10b030d1133.agni SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Lusk/217/168/62 (global coordinates 255,705.0, 256,680.0, 61.6) Second Life Server 2023-06-09.580543 Release Notes CPU: 13th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-13900K (2995.2 MHz) Memory: 32509 MB OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10/11 64-bit (Build 22621.1992) Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080/PCIe/SSE2 Windows Graphics Driver Version: 31.0.15.3168 OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 531.68 Window size: 1919x1169 Font Size Adjustment: 96pt UI Scaling: 1 Draw distance: 64m Bandwidth: 10000kbit/s LOD factor: 4 Render quality: 5 Advanced Lighting Model: Enabled Texture memory: 15296MB Disk cache: Max size 1638.4 MB (100.0% used) J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.10.4 Audio Driver Version: FMOD Studio 2.02.13 Dullahan: 1.12.4.202209142021 CEF: 91.1.21+g9dd45fe+chromium-91.0.4472.114 Chromium: 91.0.4472.114 LibVLC Version: 3.0.16 Voice Server Version: Not Connected Packets Lost: 2/5,319 (0.0%) July 25 2023 15:27:26 I am still using Second Life Release 6.6.14.581101 (64bit). When the version 7 and above auto installs for me, will selecting Use Region Settings and not doing individual settings, set everything right? I was thinking that, for example, in Bellisseria, LL would have set everything to how it would all look and work best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardy Lay Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Anthony Marques said: Use Region Settings and not doing individual settings This is usually what I do but I am also spending most of my time or parcels where I set the environment. It sure doesn't hurt to try. Do make some effort to adjust your display for good contrast and color and look at some calibration samples before judging Second Life rendering. I find that most of the computers I have been asked to fix have been monkeyed with to not stress unprotected old eyeballs on white web pages. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always Incognito Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 7 hours ago, Ardy Lay said: I don't feel like I am having troubles with it. Second Life Release 7.0.0.580782 (64bit) Release Notes You are at 217.1, 168.2, 61.6 in Lusk located at simhost-0492fe10b030d1133.agni SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Lusk/217/168/62 (global coordinates 255,705.0, 256,680.0, 61.6) Second Life Server 2023-06-09.580543 Release Notes CPU: 13th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-13900K (2995.2 MHz) Memory: 32509 MB OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10/11 64-bit (Build 22621.1992) Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080/PCIe/SSE2 Windows Graphics Driver Version: 31.0.15.3168 OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 531.68 Window size: 1919x1169 Font Size Adjustment: 96pt UI Scaling: 1 Draw distance: 64m Bandwidth: 10000kbit/s LOD factor: 4 Render quality: 5 Advanced Lighting Model: Enabled Texture memory: 15296MB Disk cache: Max size 1638.4 MB (100.0% used) J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.10.4 Audio Driver Version: FMOD Studio 2.02.13 Dullahan: 1.12.4.202209142021 CEF: 91.1.21+g9dd45fe+chromium-91.0.4472.114 Chromium: 91.0.4472.114 LibVLC Version: 3.0.16 Voice Server Version: Not Connected Packets Lost: 2/5,319 (0.0%) July 25 2023 15:27:26 Thanks it looks Good! Im a bit allergic to colours tho 😆 I need to add that i like the way LL are going with the viewer. But atm the balance is not good for me as dark parts become too dark and i have had trouble to find a way to not ruin the Good stuff But be able to see details in the dark parts. Overall it can look Good on a distance like in your pic. Sadly i dont have time to tweak the viewer much as i work full time and have a busy RL ( Im on the bus now 😆) I hope LL Will fix it for me? 🥹❤️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 One thing I noticed as I spend more time with the viewer in interior settings is that it's more realistic about how dark these spaces would be without any light sources. Used to be that one could navigate easily around "subterranean" spaces with no light sources at all (even at night) but now it really is dark down there in the dark! (This is actually pretty handy in one of my builds where Dune Glowglobe-inspired lights follow you around.) There's a new release today, 7.0.0.581126, and I just noticed it has a setting in World / Environment called "Midday (Legacy)" as well as "Midday", which may have been there before for all I know. To me, Midday (Legacy) is pretty much the same as it used to be: nostalgic for the good ol' days before Windlight—which is useful for the "placing geometry" part of building. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardy Lay Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: One thing I noticed as I spend more time with the viewer in interior settings is that it's more realistic about how dark these spaces would be without any light sources. Used to be that one could navigate easily around "subterranean" spaces with no light sources at all (even at night) but now it really is dark down there in the dark! (This is actually pretty handy in one of my builds where Dune Glowglobe-inspired lights follow you around.) There's a new release today, 7.0.0.581126, and I just noticed it has a setting in World / Environment called "Midday (Legacy)" as well as "Midday", which may have been there before for all I know. To me, Midday (Legacy) is pretty much the same as it used to be: nostalgic for the good ol' days before Windlight—which is useful for the "placing geometry" part of building. We can finally properly model darkness as a lack of light. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardy Lay Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Wow. I came back and looked at my post with a machine that doesn't do HDR at all and ... oh wow. Yeah, that snapshot is HOT with color on it. I am going to have to keep this in mind. My snapshots are TOO POWERFUL! Oh well. I am a cartoon character, after all. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Beauchamp Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 On 7/28/2023 at 1:44 PM, Ardy Lay said: Wow. I came back and looked at my post with a machine that doesn't do HDR at all and ... oh wow. Yeah, that snapshot is HOT with color on it. I am going to have to keep this in mind. My snapshots are TOO POWERFUL! Oh well. I am a cartoon character, after all. Congratulations ! You just understood what the issue is all about: a ”one color scale fits all monitors” is vowed to fail. Today, most monitors owned by, I would bet, 80% of the SLers are not HDR. LL's devels should keep this in mind and verify on a ”mainstream” monitor what their renderer looks like on it, once in a while... 🫣 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 I feel like HDR itself isn't all that well behaved (in Windows 11, at least). It makes video gorgeous, but simple stuff like snipping a screendump of a Facebook page that looks fine in Chrome will simply disappear faint hairlines in the layout that some poor Meta webdev must have spent weeks getting just right. (At first I thought I was going blind but looking at each miserable pixel in Gimp and they're all-0xF White As They Can Be.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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