Blaise Glendevon Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: Roe V Wade just takes away the federal powers of creating abortion laws, and gives it back to the each state individually. Roe V wade has nothing to do with Gay Marriages or anything like that. This is incorrect. The precedent in Roe v Wade that the right to abortion is based on a right of privacy used as the foundation of Lawrence v. Texas (the Supreme Court ruling that made sodomy laws illegal), Romer v. Evans (the ruling that establishes that states cannot make laws that discriminate against LGBTQ+ folks), and Obergefell v. Hodges (the ruling that legalized same sex marriages.) Not to mention Griswold & Casey, two rulings that assure the right to contraception. Edited May 20, 2022 by Blaise Glendevon 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Glendevon Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: Let me preface this by saying I am all for body autonomy. But I think that each state or each province in Canada should be able to create their own laws based on body autonomy. So, a two-tiered system where poor and working class folks will be denied human rights depending on where they happen to have been born? Cute. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said: So, a two-tiered system where poor and working class folks will be denied human rights depending on where they happen to have been born? Cute. . Edited May 20, 2022 by Codex Alpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said: So, a two-tiered system where poor and working class folks will be denied human rights depending on where they happen to have been born? Cute. Never said that. I said I am all for body autonomy, let me say that again. I am all for my body my choice. But I don't think the federal goverment should have the final say on the laws dictating states and provinces in Canada. So please do not assume that I want that. I am merely saying, that I live in Ontario. So laws here on things are totally different than laws that are say in Quebec. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Just now, Sammy Huntsman said: But I don't think the federal goverment should have the final say on the laws dictating states and provinces in Canada. And here in the US, it is "state" ("provincial") law that has the final word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Glendevon Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: Never said that. I said I am all for body autonomy, let me say that again. I am all for my body my choice. But I don't think the federal goverment should have the final say on the laws dictating states and provinces in Canada. So please do not assume that I want that. I am merely saying, that I live in Ontario. So laws here on things are totally different than laws that are say in Quebec. By arguing this, you are arguing that some people should have more or better rights depending on what state (or province) they're born in and whether or not they have the money to move (or the money to see that, for example, vulnerable members of their families are cared for if they re-locate.) Quit acting brand new. These laws will only effect people without the resources to relocate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Just now, Blaise Glendevon said: By arguing this, you are arguing that some people should have more or better rights depending on what state (or province) they're born in and whether or not they have the money to move (or the money to see that, for example, vulnerable members of their families are cared for if they re-locate.) Quit acting brand new. These laws will only effect people without the resources to relocate. again never said that, stop putting words in my mouth. I don't think anyone should have to move or have to relocate. But I also think that the federal government having the final say with certain laws, is just way too far reaching. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 20, 2022 Author Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said: Does one of those eras take place after 2000? As far as I've seen LGBTQ have had a Pride Decade and have been kicking it for awhile now. Your continue cries of oppression and unfair treatment is not the norm in the West - and no there is no war against women in the US. What more can I and others do for you that we haven't already? This is more of a cry for attention than anything else at this point. Go to another country, preferably a third world or non-democratic one, and fight your social justice war there - where it is actually needed. FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS I don't think you're aware of what's happening to the US at governmental and judicial levels, and how many are concerned we might slip into a proto-autocracy where marginalized groups such as women, people of color, and LGBTQ+ people are much less protected if certain trends are not reversed. But it's more than what could happen after Roe is overturned along with the laws that will likely fall after it because the greater oppression is happening against LGBTQ+ folks now. Florida seems to be the craziest of states with the 'don't say gay' bill, but more states are following suit with oppressive laws against women and LGBTQ+ people: Edited May 20, 2022 by Luna Bliss 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) NOTE: You never answered my question or addressed what I actually posted. This is all about human rights though. You have the right to be anything you want to be, as long as you don't trample on the right of others in doing so. You can be a gay teacher in a school, and have all the rights and respect that a teacher in that capacity should have. Who is against that? However, you have no right to teach our children about your sexuality, that is our job as parents. In short, it means that you already have your rights, but now you are going well and beyond that and starting to affect other people's lives - in some of these school cases without the express permission of the parents. Now who is against your rights? Do you have rights to educate children about sex subjects? How are you oppressed for an example, for being a gay teacher who just teaches Reading Writing and Arithmetic? Consider also that this would be exactly the same (and has been) and issue with STRAIGHT based sex education and was also equally railed against by concerned parents. No matter what side politically or socially we may be on, we MUST unite together on human rights. That's the only unifying argument to have. Anything else? PS. Regarding the video. I had teachers all through school that I NEVER heard anything about their private lives, their sexuality, their stories from home. EVER. BECAUSE THEY WERE PROFESSIONALS. There is a time and place. The workplace and when children are involved especially. Edited May 20, 2022 by Codex Alpha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 20, 2022 Author Share Posted May 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said: NOTE: You never answered my question or addressed what I actually posted. This is all about human rights though. You have the right to be anything you want to be, as long as you don't trample on the right of others in doing so. You can be a gay teacher in a school, and have all the rights and respect that a teacher in that capacity should have. Who is against that? However, you have no right to teach our children about your sexuality, that is our job as parents. In short, it means that you already have your rights, but now you are going well and beyond that and starting to affect other people's lives - in some of these school cases without the express permission of the parents. Now who is against your rights? Do you have rights to educate children about sex subjects? How are you oppressed for an example, for being a gay teacher who just teaches Reading Writing and Arithmetic? Consider also that this would be exactly the same (and has been) and issue with STRAIGHT based sex education and was also equally railed against by concerned parents. No matter what side politically or socially we may be on, we MUST unite together on human rights. That's the only unifying argument to have. Anything else? You need to watch the video I posted, and read more of what I've already written. You're not grasping the issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 If only we had an LGBTQ+ sub forum where derailing threads by trolls wishing debating the right of LGBTQ+ people to exist in society wasn't permitted. 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 20, 2022 Author Share Posted May 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said: PS. Regarding the video. I had teachers all through school that I NEVER heard anything about their private lives, their sexuality, their stories from home. EVER. BECAUSE THEY WERE PROFESSIONALS. Often my teachers would talk about what they did on the weekend, and who they did it with. They might talk about their vacation and the people they were with. Teachers are role models and need to appear human and reveal some of their real selves to establish trust and connection with students. Being professional does include a degree of RL sharing. But now that is illegal if the teacher has a same-sex partner (in Florida). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 20, 2022 Author Share Posted May 20, 2022 And what about a student in class who has two mommies she mentions in a report regarding what she did over summer vacation, for example. The teacher can be fired for commenting on it or trying to explain. They really do want to erase LGBTQ+ folks. This is just the beginning. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) . Edited May 20, 2022 by Codex Alpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Often my teachers would talk about what they did on the weekend, and who they did it with. They might talk about their vacation and the people they were with. Teachers are role models and need to appear human and reveal some of their real selves to establish trust and connection with students. Being professional does include a degree of RL sharing. But now that is illegal if the teacher has a same-sex partner (in Florida). Sure, perhaps a few teachers did in my time in high school too, but they only went so far, because if they DID start dragging their personal lives into the school and with students, it would not have been acceptable. A teacher can be engaging, supportive and a wonderful mentor to a student, yet you don't need to know that they go to a Presbyterian vs a Catholic church, or that they have wild sex in underground clubs every Thursday night from 2am to 5am, or that they like to drink Crown Royale and do jelly shots with hookers on the weekends either. 7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: And what about a student in class who has two mommies she mentions in a report regarding what she did over summer vacation, for example. The teacher can be fired for commenting on it or trying to explain. They really do want to erase LGBTQ+ folks. This is just the beginning. No they don't, they want professionalism. Edited May 20, 2022 by Codex Alpha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 20, 2022 Author Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Codex Alpha said: Sure, perhaps a few teachers did in my time in high school too, but they only went so far, because if they DID start dragging their personal lives into the school and with students, it would not have been acceptable. A teacher can be engaging, supportive and a wonderful mentor to a student, yet you don't need to know that they go to a Presbyterian vs a Catholic church, or that they have wild sex in underground clubs every Thursday night from 2am to 5am, or that they like to drink Crown Royale and do jelly shots with hookers on the weekends either. Professionalism. What do your extreme examples have to do with what is actually happening in Florida. Teachers are unable to reveal who their spouse is when describing common events like vacations without fear of being fired. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 20, 2022 Author Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said: 12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: And what about a student in class who has two mommies she mentions in a report regarding what she did over summer vacation, for example. The teacher can be fired for commenting on it or trying to explain. They really do want to erase LGBTQ+ folks. This is just the beginning. No they don't, they want professionalism. So its professional for a straight male teacher to say he went on vacation with his wife but unprofessional for a gay male teacher to say he went on vacation with his male spouse? Edited May 20, 2022 by Luna Bliss 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: What do your extreme examples have to do with what is actually happening in Florida. Teachers are unable to reveal who their spouse is when describing common events like vacations without fear of being fired. They wouldn't get fired over telling relevant stories eg. "I had an amazing weekend camping everyone we had so much fun. We went hiking up to this mountain lake, we ate hot dogs and enjoyed marshmellows. Even the dogs had fun, running and barking as they had the whole park it seems to themselves. It didn't even rain... How was your weekend, kids?" They would get fired over details that would be unprofessional or unneeded. You see it's not just that they can't mention it, they WANT to mention it because their is an agenda behind it, and it is not a teachers job to make a political or social point as a teacher. They are there to teach reading writing and arithmetic. See how the story can be told, leaving out any controversial issues, tells a nice story, and then includes the children, all the while remaining professional at all times? Edited May 20, 2022 by Codex Alpha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 20, 2022 Author Share Posted May 20, 2022 Just now, Codex Alpha said: You see it's not just that they can't mention it, they WANT to mention it because their is an agenda behind it, and it is not a teachers job to make a political or social point as a teacher. They are there to teach reading writing and arithmetic. omfg They want to be human like everyone else and have the same rights as a straight person. There is no agenda to make a political or social point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: What do your extreme examples have to do with what is actually happening in Florida. Teachers are unable to reveal who their spouse is when describing common events like vacations without fear of being fired. They can use terms like "partner" "significant other" as well as a few other terms if you aren't actually exaggerating (which you probably are) that the Florida law would make it illegal to identify the gender of one's partner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 20, 2022 Author Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said: They wouldn't get fired over telling relevant stories You're just making that up without reading the numerous reports as to what is actually happening there. Maybe do some reading and come back to the thread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 20, 2022 Author Share Posted May 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: They can use terms like "partner" "significant other" as well as a few other terms if you aren't actually exaggerating (which you probably are) that the Florida law would make it illegal to identify the gender of one's partner. Do some reading and come back. Not in the mood to educate you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 I'm well aware of the issues, and instead of trying to respond to known unknown 'reports' or cases or exceptions to the rule you want to put forward, I can only comment on the arguments you present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Dakota Linden Posted May 20, 2022 Moderators Share Posted May 20, 2022 Ladies and Gentlemen, we are done. I strongly encourage all of you to take any and all political discussions elsewhere. 1 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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