Question about Skins, bodies, etc

[Margo Sciarri]

I've been in SL for 14 yrs., and until lately I've never seen an issue like the one that's going on now.  I don't know the reasons behind it, but skin creators aren't making skins for Catwa - and now with update of Belezza body, they have a neck tab for LeLutka head.  I guess this ties into the few male skins made by Belezza that are for LeLutka only.

Are other body creators going to follow suit?  I like what I have now, in doing this you are snubbing a lot of people in the community.  I'm trying to understand what's going on, but with no explanation, it's hard to do so.

[Charalyne Blackwood]

Are you talking about conventional appliers or BOM? The Skinnery makes really good BOM skins for Catwa that come with matching base bodies. They also have good BOM body skins with various features (shading for small breasts, fit lean bodies, plump shapes, etc...) that match the head skins.

[Echelon Alcott]

37 minutes ago, Margo Sciarri said:

I've been in SL for 14 yrs., and until lately I've never seen an issue like the one that's going on now.  I don't know the reasons behind it, but skin creators aren't making skins for Catwa - and now with update of Belezza body, they have a neck tab for LeLutka head.  I guess this ties into the few male skins made by Belezza that are for LeLutka only.

Are other body creators going to follow suit?  I like what I have now, in doing this you are snubbing a lot of people in the community.  I'm trying to understand what's going on, but with no explanation, it's hard to do so.

I doubt that major skin content creators will follow suit. Despite the fact that Lelutka has been very popular, Catwa still holds a sizeable market share, and any creator that only caters to Lelutka will be losing a lot of potential sales. For data on mesh heads market share, refer to Lucia Nightfire's statistics released a couple of weeks ago [link].

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Margo Sciarri said:

they have a neck tab for LeLutka head

It's really a Universal neck.  Lelutka started it but I believe others have followed.  This is from Catwa's blog about her newer HDPro heads...

Universal Neck is a collaboration between mesh head and body creators to all use a common neck, ensuring that you will not have to worry about neck seams and neck fixes in future

So.it may SAY Lelutka but it means Universal.

[steeljane42]

4 hours ago, Echelon Alcott said:

I doubt that major skin content creators will follow suit. Despite the fact that Lelutka has been very popular, Catwa still holds a sizeable market share, and any creator that only caters to Lelutka will be losing a lot of potential sales. For data on mesh heads market share, refer to Lucia Nightfire's statistics released a couple of weeks ago [link].

Potential sales in many cases are not worth the efforts and time, though. And from some recent(ish) threads with some creators input it's pretty obvious.

While Lucia's stats are very much appreciated it's by no means a representation of market/sales. For example TMP's classic freebie bodies are pretty high on the list, yet there's basically zero new content made for it (and the old TMP sized clothes are not always a good fit either). Only exceptions are singular new releases some creators put up, because new way to get the devkit for Legacy is to make one release for their classic bodies (which is a big improvement over sharing your real identity reqs. they had before). Belleza Freya is somewhat similar and despite the update is getting dropped in favor of Reborn, which is not as widely used according to those stats, but I would guess people who are after the new shiny are more likely to spend money on new releases as well.

Likewise the most popular head on that list is Genus Strong (the free one), but you barely see anything new made for Genus anymore. It's somewhat true to all those Catwa Catyas as well, lots has been stuck with that head since its 2016 release and didn't upgrade since. They are (in most cases) do not represent current market, thus there's also barely any new releases for Catwa in general, and even less so for their old not HDPro line.

There's also still plenty avatars who didn't bother to get any mesh bodies and heads as well, especially if you explore regions that are very far from the fashion, events and so on. So you could say creators lose potential sales by not making skins for them, or not making those standard XXS to L sized mesh clothes too, but in reality it would't cover the time spent as those people just don't shop a lot (or at all).

December's survey from Seraphim is very much what I see around popular events, especially on the opening days.

https://www.seraphimsl.com/2021/12/02/the-results-mesh-head-survey/

Edited January 6, 2022 by steeljane42
typos

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Female skins for Catwa are still around. I still see gifts and sales for them on occasion. New releases for male skins - I'm not sure. There are stores that still carry them, but I'm not sure how often new skins come out. If you're looking for stores that still support Catwa, have a peek at this Flickr gallery put together by a Catwa CSR here.

 

32 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

December's survey from Seraphim is very much what I see around popular events, especially on the opening days.

https://www.seraphimsl.com/2021/12/02/the-results-mesh-head-survey/

What I found most interesting about those survey results when they were first released was how many people bought 5+ heads over the last two years! That seems like a lot to me, but I mostly rock the freebies unless something really knocks my socks off (it happens, but definitely not that often). But I'm fairly faithful to Catwa myself. I don't think anything could get me to abandon it for daily use.

 

[Echelon Alcott]

2 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

December's survey from Seraphim is very much what I see around popular events, especially on the opening days.

https://www.seraphimsl.com/2021/12/02/the-results-mesh-head-survey/

Very cool to see Seraphim's survey. Despite the fact that the sample size is small, especially for male avatars at only 201 responses, the data points are from people who shop. I've always wondered how Lucia collects her data, to understand what segment of the SL population her stats are from.

Is there an equivalent to Seraphim's mesh head survey for mesh bodies?

[steeljane42]

4 minutes ago, Echelon Alcott said:

Very cool to see Seraphim's survey. Despite the fact that the sample size is small, especially for male avatars at only 201 responses, the data points are from people who shop. I've always wondered how Lucia collects her data, to understand what segment of the SL population her stats are from.

Is there an equivalent to Seraphim's mesh head survey for mesh bodies?

It says at the very bottom of the post you linked earlier. Bots gathering stats around the grid using her script, so there's no segments. And segments are important in this case.

I think they had a body survey a year ago, but lots has changed since. There's some stores that did surveys last year, both on flickr and in-world, but those stats are usually in favor of bodies that are already supported by said creator with an exception of heavy PR campaigns like Kupra and Reborn had. In which case those did end higher than you'd think they would otherwise.

Usually it's maitreya>legacy>kupra(now reborn often takes 3rd spot)|freya>maitreya petite>legacy perky, though. And I don't keep up with guys' clothing/fashion or check such stores, so no idea about male bodies.

2 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

What I found most interesting about those survey results when they were first released was how many people bought 5+ heads over the last two years! That seems like a lot to me

Lots people enjoy changing their looks often, and 4k (2k during black friday) for the "default" Evo/Evox head is not really too much compared to some other expenses. Decent furniture is most often in that range, fatpacks of clothes are usually 1.5 to 2.5k too, and the worst of all - rent/tier (unless it's a super cheap skybox or 1024sqm parcel). So 4k(2k) to play with a new look is really not all that bad.

Also considering chronical altoholism that affects lots of SL users it's safe to assume those 5+ heads are split between 2+ avatars in a decent number of cases.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

Lelutka requires a whole other template to create, catawa I believe accepts BOM skins well as they are.  I do not have a catawa head myself, I find it a bit confusing. (the huds)

What irks me about the skins now is you have to fork out money for head skins then find a matching body skin that you like... Its all rather confusing. and I have been around same as you.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Tarina Sewell

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

Lots people enjoy changing their looks often, and 4k (2k during black friday) for the "default" Evo/Evox head is not really too much compared to some other expenses. Decent furniture is most often in that range, fatpacks of clothes are usually 1.5 to 2.5k too, and the worst of all - rent/tier (unless it's a super cheap skybox or 1024sqm parcel). So 4k(2k) to play with a new look is really not all that bad.

Also considering chronical altoholism that affects lots of SL users it's safe to assume those 5+ heads are split between 2+ avatars in a decent number of cases.

That's a very good point! I forgot about alts. Mine is dressed in group gifts, free heads, and gift card hauls for the most part, so I tend to forget the costs of maintaining one properly. For this account, I typically change my entire look (and/or species) every few days, but with all of the free heads that have been given out over the last few years, I've got 20-22ish heads to play with for that (not all human). I did purchase about 5 in my collection, but only one was in the 5k range. The cheapest was 50L on sale, marked down from 2k. One half-priced Lel and the rest under 350L. I might be a bit obsessed with finding discounts and grabbing every freebie I can get my hands on. 😂

 

41 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

What irks me about the skins now is you have to fork out money for head skins then find a matching body skin that you like... Its all rather confusing. and I have been around same as you.

This is true! 17 years for me in SL and I still have trouble figuring out how skins are configured when shopping for demos. Then I eventually give up and just toss on something purple because hey at least it's all one single layer.

 

[Marianne Little]

We have talked about this before. Lelutka lowered their price the same time as Catwa increased the price on their HD Pro heads. Then Lelutka had 2 sales on all new heads, and 2 gifts of both male and female heads in 2020 and 2021. Or was it more sales and gifts?

This drove the customer base to Lelutka. I read that a creator of makeups said that sales of Catwa makeups did not cover the upload price. (She had many makeups in one pack, not only 1 upload) People will not use time and money on other heads.

Those who did not want to pay for a head, got the free Lelutkas for them, their alts and told all their friends about it.

Those who can and are willing to pay for a head, find no new Catwa skins in events. And that Catwa HD Pro cost 2000 more than full priced Lelutka does not help. The Markedplace price is 5910, I am not sure, maybe it is a bit cheaper inworld.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Marianne Little
added a sentence

[Maitimo]

10 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

We have talked about this before. Lelutka lowered their price the same time as Catwa increased the price on their HD Pro heads. Then Lelutka had 2 sales on all new heads, and 2 gifts of both male and female heads in 2020 and 2021. Or was it more sales and gifts?

This drove the customer base to Lelutka. I read that a creator of makeups said that sales of Catwa makeups did not cover the upload price. (She had many makeups in one pack, not only 1 upload) People will not use time and money on other heads.

Those who did not want to pay for a head, got the free Lelutkas for them, their alts and told all their friends about it.

Those who can and are willing to pay for a head, find no new Catwa skins in events. And that Catwa HD Pro cost 2000 more than full priced Lelutka does not help. The Markedplace price is 5910, I am not sure, maybe it is a bit cheaper inworld.

On the plus side, skins made for Genus fit perfectly on Catwa HDPro, so as long as you are BOM, buy Genus skins/makeup instead. You don't need them to be Catwa-specific unless you have an older (not HD-Pro) Catwa head.