NextUP and other Gacha Replacements are still Gacha

[Blaise Glendevon]

9 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

Ya I did content creation for SL as did a bunch of my friends and I made quite a lot of money.  And lets not pretend like all these creators are out their making custom stuff.  Plenty of it is asset store purchases retextured.

Also hillarious way to admit that content creators had to trick people into spending more money to get paid.  Though I never hit an event that isnt packed to the brim immediately upon launching.  Guess everyone is spam tping to window shop.

It's not a trick. Unless you think all marketing is a trick. It's a game - you pay a pittance of what the item is worth and you get a prize. You trade or re-sell until you have all the pieces you want. All LL has done is made what you're getting a little more specific. 

[Finite]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Do you have proof that it is asset store purchases retextured or you just blatantly and wrongly accusing something with no evidence to back it? 

This is actually quite common in SL but it's not really the fault of the creators. Certain body makers require stores to be "established" before being given access to their rigs. Meaning new stores are required to use premade products or generic rigs when they start up.

[Blaise Glendevon]

3 minutes ago, Finite said:

This is actually quite common in SL but it's not really the fault of the creators. Certain body makers require stores to be "established" before being given access to their rigs. Meaning new stores are required to use premade products or generic rigs when they start up.

And it's not half the scandal the OP wants to make it out to be. I know several shops who make very cute clothes out of full-perm mesh with their own textures and designs. I remember even more that now outsource custom mesh to texture with their proprietary textures that started out that way. (You don't think all the mesh is being made in-house, do you?)

Edited October 5, 2021 by Blaise Glendevon

[Finite]

Just now, Blaise Glendevon said:

And it's not half the scandal the OP wants to make it out to be. I know several shops who make very cute clothes out of full-perm mesh with their own textures and designs. 

Ya I never had an issue with it. I was annoyed one time when I technically bought the same dress at the same event from two different vendors.. I take more issue with those that claim to be original mesh or those who charge original mesh prices for the premade they only dropped varying sets of solid colors over the map they were provided.

[Zia Underwood]

21 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Do you have proof that it is asset store purchases retextured or you just blatantly and wrongly accusing something with no evidence to back it? 

Also no one is being tricked to spend more money, I mean we do have brains of our own and well we can decide what we want and don't want. 

You have been making baseless claim, borderlining character attacks and this needs to stop. Unless you have the proof that this system is the same and not going about making baseless claims. I think you need to stop slandering.

I have proof.  Far more than you ever brought.  Documentation scientific studies.  You simply chose to ignore it.

As for asset flips and purchased designs from other designers.  Or copying designs off of pinterest and recreating them in SL.  Ya, it happens a lot.  Not every creator does custom mesh.  Not every designer can.  There is nothing inheritently wrong with using purchased items to fill your store if the terms of use allows it.  But it wouldnt really account for that arbitraty 105dollar per hour pay day you were discussing.

And lets discuss that for a moment because digital goods might take hours to make but after that initial time investment is made the continued sale of those items comes at an extremely low overhead.  Since you dont need to pay to store the items  you dont need to pay to make more of them.  Its a volume buisness.  They make up their initial time investment and everything after is profit.

I am in firm belief that if an artist feels there work is worth 105 dollars though they should charge it.  Or whatever that number is.  No need to hide it behind a gacha mechanic just say the number plainly so the customer can make a decision.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Zia Underwood

[Finite]

5 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

I have proof.  Far more than you ever brought.  Documentation scientific studies.  You simply chose to ignore it.

You've merely posted links to random things with no context. Basically just puppeteering off of other peoples views without providing any of your own arguments or explaining how they even apply to this discussion you created.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Finite

[Rowan Amore]

22 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

Now youre being disingenuous.  In the post above this one youre launching another defense of the NextUp styled systems. 

Let me ask you why are you here 4 day's in adamently defending them?

Because they are allowed.  I'm not defending them at all.  Only the FACT that they ARE within the terms LL set forth.  

Not sure what point you aren't grasping.  If you think they are not following.the rules that LL set down, then take.it up.with LL.  Just because you see them as the same as gachas, doesn't make it so.

And again, since you must have missed it, I think the new machines are worse.than gachas yet within the rules.

[Rowan Amore]

9 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

No need to hide it behind a gacha mechanic just say the number plainly so the customer can make a decision.

Which is exactly what the new machines do.  Here is the price, here is the item.  Buy, don't buy.  The decision is yours.

 

[Lysistrata Szapira]

Not going to argue for/against the replacement machines, but after seeing the examples set up at Shop & Hop, I didn't spend a single linden dollar on any machine because the vast majority of items were template crap or simply crap.  I may be more likely in the future to purchase from a Miepon machine since I can see what's coming up, but only if it contains quality items that I actually want.  I will never use the Next Up machines. 

 

 

[Zia Underwood]

10 minutes ago, Finite said:

You've merely posted links to random things with no context. Basically just puppeteering off of other peoples views without providing any of your own arguments or explaining how they even apply to this discussion you created.

What would it matter?  You arent interested in having your position changed.  Im going to cite the studies relevant to the topic.  I found and supplied sources which had to adhere to scientific or journalistic integrity to discuss the points I was attempting to make.  Hoping that would provide a backbone to my summerized points in the proceeding posts.

Im not conjuring anything from some abstract sense of how the world works based on an internal belief structure.  Im digesting the data Ive read and Ive formulated an opinion from that.  The truth is you simply dont want to hear it.  You just want to keep loot boxes in the game.   One is but left to wonder why.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Zia Underwood

[Kitteh Whiskers]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:51 AM, Zia Underwood said:

"You can see what you're buying but players are not playing for the thing they are buying.They are playing for the next thing to be revealed in most instances."
-I don't pay for an item I don't want. I just wait or return the next day

 "Also I've been seeing bots on these gacha sims running around collecting the unclaimed rares."
- I have yet to see this.
 

"Why am I not happy?" 
-Perhaps something no one here can answer for you.
 
"It's not like any of us know what the ratios on these things are going to be and lets be real LL isn't going to go around and make sure every content creator is being fair and above board. "
- I've been very lucky. Haven't felt exploited. Can't feel that way when my patience pays off AKA getting a rare item for only 50L. If anything I'm taking advantage of the creator for getting a quality item for much much less, yet they graciously allow it. 

 

 

I will repeat over and over again, if you don't want to play it, don't. If you don't like it, look the other way. Just like "skill gaming" and prostitution in sl, it will continue unless it is all banned or the game closes. For now, breathe. 
 

 

 

[Finite]

14 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

  You just want to keep loot boxes in the game.   One is but left to wonder why.

I actually don't care. I thought I would care when they banned gacha but I've only played two conveyer vendors from a single merchant since the change. They were literally all the same item with varying color skins. One was a dragon mount the other some funny little rock avatar. I haven't seen any of the new ones at any of the events I regularly attend so it hasn't really effected me as much as I thought it would initially.

I just think the thing you are railing against are small potatoes compared to other things in SL that do the exact same thing you're angry with the new gachas about but at a far worse rate.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Finite

[Blaise Glendevon]

10 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

  You just want to keep loot boxes in the game.   One is but left to wonder why.

I have said it before on this thread. I liked gacha - I liked playing and selling and swapping. I liked the big marketplaces full of secondhand items that used to be up on the grid. I liked the fun of it all. That is why. 

Why can't you just let people have their game and play as you like? There is a difference between having concerns about your community and insisting we all wear a parachute to step down from a curb in case we trip.  

[Solar Legion]

1 hour ago, Robin Kiyori said:

Could.. you explain what you believe I am doing? I am not speaking for all people that are ND,   just the ones that like me have things that make us more susceptible to forming addictive patterns.

 

Also..what is there to agree/disagree on? my point was that as a specturm.. no two peoples' needs are going to be the same..

It is not what I believe you are doing - it is what you are doing: Speaking for anyone outside of yourself. Which you even did in this post after a fashion.

That is fine and dandy when dealing with an actual government or actionable (meaning can be taken to court) issues/situations. This is neither.

[Solar Legion]

As for the rest of the responses from the OP: We get it, you're on a Crusade.

Sit down. The Windmills aren't being affected.

[Zia Underwood]

9 minutes ago, Finite said:

I actually don't care. I thought I would care when they banned gacha but I've only played one conveyer vendor from a single merchant since the change. They were literally all the same item with varying color skins. One was a dragon mount the other some funny little rock avatar. I haven't seen any of the new ones at any of the events I regularly attend so it hasn't really effected me as much as I thought it would initially.

I just think the thing you are railing against are small potatoes compared to other things in SL that do the exact same thing you're angry with the new gachas about but at a far worse rate.

Youve been incredibly invested in the conversation for someone who doesnt care.

What other things work like gacha in sl other than traditional gambling?  

[Zia Underwood]

3 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

As for the rest of the responses from the OP: We get it, you're on a Crusade.

Sit down. The Windmills aren't being affected.

Is this a Don Quixote reference?

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Zia Underwood said:

 

What other things work like gacha in sl other than traditional gambling?  

Subscription boxes which are allowed also.  You don't know what's in it but since everyone gets the same.thing and there is no resell, it's allowed.

[Finite]

1 minute ago, Zia Underwood said:

Youve been incredibly invested in the conversation for someone who doesnt care.

What other things work like gacha in sl other than traditional gambling?  

No-devil and if people in SL have a gambling addiction they are playing that and not playing some gacha... It's an open discussion board. I don't need or am required to have an agenda to participate.

[Zia Underwood]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Subscription boxes which are allowed also.  You don't know what's in it but since everyone gets the same.thing and there is no resell, it's allowed.

Single payment single item delivery.  No possibility of abuse.  Not the same thing.

[Zia Underwood]

9 minutes ago, Finite said:

No-devil and if people in SL have a gambling addiction they are playing that and not playing some gacha... It's an open discussion board. I don't need or am required to have an agenda to participate.

Well your not in every discussion on the forum are you?  This one must have drawn you in for a reason.  I certainly have a reason for being here.

[Finite]

Just now, Zia Underwood said:

Well your not in every discussion on the forum are you?  This one must have drawn you in for a reason.  I certainly have a reason for being here.

 I paid 150L for this expertly crafted dragon mount from a conveyer vendor. https://imgur.com/cuMVsqz

You charge 249 for this balloon chair thing. https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Lyric-My-Dark-Day-Floating-Balloon-Bench/4453475

So lets be real... Who has the agenda here?

[Dyna Mole]

I think maybe this dead horse has been beat enough.  Tempers are starting to get a bit thin, so it's time to move on.