the telepathy thread

[Shining Sun]

My Grandfather Was a Quantum Physicist

I can see him now
smiling
in full dance costume
in front of the roundhouse
on a sunny afternoon.

Scientists have finally discovered
that the intimate details
of our lives
are influenced by things
beyond the stars
and beyond time.

My grandfather knew this.

   Duan BigEagle

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Did someone mention LED strobe lights?

Party! Party! Par-tay!

 

https://www.amazon.com/Roxant-Pulse-ULTRA-Bright-Strobe/dp/B01LVXCDKX/ref=asc_df_B01LVXCDKX/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312181335000&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13595253625053412611&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032898&hvtargid=pla-568390215079&psc=1

Does this kill the COVID if you shine it up your nether-regions?

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I'd not be surprised if you find that the whole of your musical creation ends up different, and greater, than you imagined, simply because playing the different instruments forces you to come at the project from different angles, sparking additional creativity.

That's one of my hopes!!

4 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

giving me quite a tingle

That is much more than most performers could hope for!

Lately I've been reviewing the meta-music that drives my past, how it connects to the actual source music I'm trying to use..made me tingle to discover those connections. ("Why do I like this song? Ouch, ear worm, let's not"..*overlay ear worm with source music*..."Ahhh, a connection!" *tingle*)

[Madelaine McMasters]

45 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Does this kill the COVID if you shine it up your nether-regions?

Absolutely!

Viruses need live hosts.

[Silent Mistwalker]

3 hours ago, Shining Sun said:

My Grandfather Was a Quantum Physicist

I can see him now
smiling
in full dance costume
in front of the roundhouse
on a sunny afternoon.

Scientists have finally discovered
that the intimate details
of our lives
are influenced by things
beyond the stars
and beyond time.

My grandfather knew this.

   Duan BigEagle

 

Aho!

[Silent Mistwalker]

50 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Does this kill the COVID if you shine it up your nether-regions?

Well I don't know about Covid but it could certainly kill the mood.

Oh.

OH!

You sly lion, you. 🤭

[Love Zhaoying]

I like the idea of sharing a quantum alignment between neurons with everyone. Even if we couldn't tell. 

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I like the idea of sharing a quantum alignment between neurons with everyone. Even if we couldn't tell. 

Feeling the quantum entanglement this morning...

[Luna Bliss]

On 7/29/2021 at 5:38 PM, Rat Luv said:

I was talking to my nan today and she reminded me of something...my grandad was welding one day and he kept seeing a shadow figure moving around in the yard. He put his mask up, because he was supposed to be working alone in that section, and wondered if another worker had turned up, or if someone had broken in. Then he saw the figure running into a warehouse shed, so he followed it inside but couldn't see anyone...then heard a massive crash and came out again, and a scaffold had collapsed exactly where he'd been standing  

He always said "Oh, I probably just imagined it, a load of rubbish really!" but she thinks that, deep down, he wondered if someone or something dragged him away in time...things like that can't be proved in a lab but I still think there are weird forces out there...

That is quite the interesting story! My mind races to make sense of it.

I had an experience where I felt somehow 'saved' too during an auto crash some years ago.  By "weird forces", as you say, or higher forces we can't usually access. Angels? Or are angels part of that 'higher Self'.

[Luna Bliss]

On 7/30/2021 at 2:58 PM, Shining Sun said:

My Grandfather Was a Quantum Physicist

I can see him now
smiling
in full dance costume
in front of the roundhouse
on a sunny afternoon.

Scientists have finally discovered
that the intimate details
of our lives
are influenced by things
beyond the stars
and beyond time.

My grandfather knew this.

   Duan BigEagle

That's an amazing poem    I love how Native Americans were so connected to their spirituality and to the earth -- or are those one and the same?

[Luna Bliss]

Reading a new book named "Real Magic", and finding it interesting:

About Real Magic

The chief scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) turns a critical eye toward such practices as telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition and psychokinesis. Are such powers really possible? Science says yes.

According to noted scientist and bestselling author of The Conscious Universe, Dean Radin, magic is a natural aspect of reality, and each of us can tap into this power with diligent practice.

But wait, aren’t things like ESP and telepathy just wishful thinking and flights of the imagination? Not according to the author, who worked on the US government’s top secret psychic espionage program known as Stargate. Radin has spent the last forty years conducting controlled experiments that demonstrate that thoughts are things, that we can sense others’ emotions and intentions from a distance, that intuition is more powerful than we thought, and that we can tap into the power of intention (think The Secret, only on a more realistic and scientific level). These dormant powers can help us to lead more interesting and fulfilling lives.

Beginning with a brief history of magic over the centuries (what was called magic two thousand years ago is turning out to be scientific fact today), a review of the scientific evidence for magic, a series of simple but effective magical techniques (the key is mental focus, something elite athletes know a lot about), Radin then offers a vision of a scientifically-informed magic and explains why magic will play a key role in frontiers of science.

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/551604/real-magic-by-dean-radin-phd/

[Luna Bliss]

An excerpt from the Real Magic book:

Chapter 1
 

Beginning
 

This book is about magic.

Not the fictional magic of Harry Potter, the feigned magic of Harry Houdini, or the fraudulent magic of con artists. Not blue lightning bolts springing from the fingertips, aerial combat on broomsticks, sleight-of-hand tricks, or any of the other elaborations of artistic license and special effects.
 

This is about real magic.
 

Occultists sometimes use the Old English spelling magick to distinguish fictional and stage magic from the real deal. We’ll use the more common term, magic, to avoid unnecessary associations with the occult.
 

Real magic falls into three categories: mental influence of the physical world, perception of events distant in space or time, and interactions with nonphysical entities. The first type I’ll call force of will; it’s associated with spell-casting and other techniques meant to intentionally influence events or actions. The second is divination; it’s associated with practices such as reading Tarot cards and mirror-gazing. The third is theurgy, from the Greek meaning “god-work”; it involves methods for evoking and communicating with spirits.
 

Unlike books that discuss beliefs about magic from psychological or historical perspectives, or that list recipes for spell-casting, the goal here is to explore real magic from an evidence-based scientific perspective. Why a scientific approach? You wouldn’t know it by reading most college textbooks, but there’s a vast scientific literature that informs our understanding of real magic. When I was in college, none of my coursework mentioned anything about that literature. But now, after four decades of experimentally studying magic, motivated by scientific curiosity and without a religious background that might have biased me to be overly sympathetic about metaphysical concepts, I’ve come to two conclusions.

First, there’s no doubt that science is the most accurate lens on reality that humanity has developed so far. What we’ve collectively discovered about the nature of Nature over the last three or four centuries, from the quantum to the cosmological, is an awe-inspiring testament to our creativity and imagination. Technologies based on that knowledge provide proof that our discoveries are valid. So, when considering real magic, it would be foolish to just throw away what we’ve already learned.
 

But second, reality viewed through the lens of science is an exceedingly thin slice of the whole shebang. Science is tightly focused on the objective, measurable, physical world. That focus excludes the one and only thing you can ever know for sure--your consciousness, that inner spark of sentience that you call “me.”
 

While science as a practice has primarily concentrated on the objective world, scientific methods are extremely powerful, so if we wish we can redirect our lens to look inward and explore what consciousness is capable of. When we do that, we are startled to find whole new realms of knowledge. One of the consequences of taking this inner perspective is that the idea of magic transforms from an impossible fantasy into an aspect of Nature that we can begin to study. From this stance, terms such as paranormal and supernatural are seen as quaint and antediluvian, similar to how modern medicine no longer needs the concept of “bad humors” when discussing the origins of disease.
 

We’ll explore this new realm of knowledge through two major themes. First, based on a substantial body of experimental evidence, we can state with a high degree of confidence that real magic exists. Second, there are rising trends in science suggesting that what was once called magic is poised to evolve into a new scientific discipline, just as medieval astrology and alchemy evolved into today’s astronomy and chemistry. The new discipline will be the study of the psychophysical nature of reality, that mysterious, interstitial space shimmering between mind and matter. Understanding how this enigmatic space works in a way that’s consistent with the rest of science requires a new worldview--the lens through which we understand reality.
 

Another theme we’ll discuss is that magic didn’t miraculously disappear with the rise of the scientific worldview. Magic is still intensely present. Prayer is a form of intentional magic, a mental act intended to affect the world in some way. Wearing a sacred symbol is a form of sympathetic magic, a symbolic correspondence said to transcend time and space. Many religious rituals are forms of ancient ceremonial magic. The abundance of popular books on the power of affirmations and positive thinking are all based on age-old magical principles.
 

From a conventional scientific perspective, these widespread practices are considered examples of infantile magical thinking, fairy tales. Some scientists even use the word magic as a synonym for nonsense, because it implies the scientifically appalling idea that some things “just happen” for no discernible or plausible cause. But magic doesn’t mean “no cause.” It just means that we haven’t yet developed scientifically acceptable theories to explain these effects. As we’ll see, there are already important hints that may lead to such theories, so it’s best to think of real magic not as something impossibly mysterious, but as a forerunner of the future of science.
 

 Magic Is Everywhere
 

The possibility that magic is real can be terribly unsettling to those who’d prefer that it not exist. Consider A. J. Ayer (Sir Alfred Jules Ayer, 1910-1989), a prominent British philosopher who specialized in logical positivism. This is a critical philosophical position that utterly rejects any sort of metaphysical, religious, or magical concepts. As might be expected, Ayer was a hardcore atheist. At age seventy-seven, he died. Fortunately, he was resuscitated, and to everyone’s surprise he reported a near-death experience (NDE). He described it as consisting of repeated attempts to cross a river and “a red light, exceedingly bright, and also very painful . . . responsible for the government of the universe.” Ayer retained his atheism, but declared that the experience had “slightly weakened” his conviction that death “will be the end of me.”1
 

That Ayer reported this experience is more astounding than it may seem. Lifelong logical positivists are tough. They don’t “slightly weaken” their intellectual positions on anything. The link between magic and Ayer’s NDE is theurgy, the third category of magic. NDEs suggest that there may be forms of disembodied awareness, or spirits. For many who’ve experienced an NDE it’s a virtual certainty that such spirits exist.2 But so far there’s no strictly objective way to tell if that’s the only viable interpretation. We’ll revisit this issue in more detail later.
 

Another example of magic intruding into the mundane world involves William Friedkin, the director of the movie The Exorcist. Before he made his famous film, Friedkin hadn’t witnessed an exorcism; afterward he decided to do so. He spent time with Father Gabriel Amorth, a Vatican exorcist. His experience with Father Amorth did not overcome his prior agnosticism. But after showing a video of a terrifying exorcism to three prominent neuroscientists and three psychiatrists and not getting the blithe dismissal that he expected from those experts, it “scare[d] the Hades out of him.”3
 

A third example is provided by historian Michael Shermer, a prominent skeptic of all things paranormal. In Shermer’s September 2016 column in Scientific American, he asked, “Is it possible to measure supernatural or paranormal phenomena?” His answer was an unambiguous no:
 

Where the known meets the unknown we are tempted to inject paranormal and supernatural forces to explain unsolved mysteries. We must resist the temptation because such efforts can never succeed, not even in principle.4
 

“Not even in principle” is reminiscent of a quip attributed to Mark Twain: “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”5 Shermer justified his confidence by citing Caltech physicist Sean Carroll, because Carroll concluded that the laws of physics “rule out the possibility of true psychic powers.” Why? Because, Shermer continued, “the particles and forces of nature don’t allow us to bend spoons, levitate or read minds.” Furthermore, according to Carroll, we know that there aren’t new particles or forces out there yet to be discovered that would support them. Not simply because we haven’t found them yet, but because we definitely would have found them if they had the right characteristics to give us the requisite powers.6
 

Sidestepping what history teaches us about going public with such conceits, Shermer nevertheless concluded with certainty that searching for paranormal or supernatural forces “can never succeed.” With that, he slammed the door shut.
 

So far, this is standard skeptical fare. But the peculiar aspect of this story is that two years prior to slamming the door, Shermer encouraged the exact opposite. In his October 2014 column in Scientific American, he opened with the following surprising admission:
 

Often I am asked if I have ever encountered something that I could not explain. What my interlocutors have in mind are not bewildering enigmas such as consciousness or U.S. foreign policy but anomalous and mystifying events that suggest the existence of the paranormal or supernatural. My answer is: yes, now I have.7
 

He went on to describe an event in June 2014, when he was planning to marry his fiancée, Jennifer Graf. Her grandfather was the closest she had to a father figure, but tragically he died when she was sixteen years old. One of the few heirlooms she kept from her grandfather was a 1978 Philips transistor radio. Shermer tried to get it to work. He put in new batteries, looked for loose connections, and tried smacking it on a hard surface. It still wouldn’t work. So he gave up and placed it in the back of a desk drawer in their bedroom. Three months later, Shermer and Graf were married at their home in California. She was feeling sad that her grandfather wasn’t there to give her away. After the wedding ceremony, something strange happened. They heard music. They traced it to the desk drawer in the bedroom. It was the grandfather’s radio, playing a love song.
 

They were stunned into silence. Finally Graf whispered, “My grandfather is here with us. I’m not alone.” The radio continued to play that evening, fell silent the next day, and never worked again. Shermer’s reaction: “I have to admit, it rocked me back on my heels and shook my skepticism to its core.” As a result, he wrote, still reeling with awe:
 

[If] we are to take seriously the scientific credo to keep an open mind and remain agnostic when the evidence is indecisive or the riddle unsolved, we should not shut the doors of perception when they may be opened to us to marvel in the mysterious.
 

What happened between his modest proposal calling for openness in the face of the mysterious and two years later when he slammed the door shut? I can’t speculate about Shermer’s change of heart, but one thing we do know is that when one encounters a belief-shattering event it’s not uncommon to promptly forget about it, or even to deny that it ever happened. Psychologists use the term repression to describe such cases.8 As magician Peter Carroll once put it, “When people are presented with real magical events they somehow manage not to notice. If they are forced to notice something uncontrovertibly magical they may become terrified, nauseated, and ill.”9
 

Shermer’s experience suggests that real magic is always present, patiently waiting just below the calm surface of the everyday world. Every so often its tentacles brush our leg, causing shivers to shoot up our spine. It’s that electrifying quality that makes magical fiction so captivating, magical stage illusions endlessly entertaining, and magical fraud so easy to perpetrate.
 

The word magic comes from the Greek word magos, referring to a member of a learned and priestly class, which in turn derives from the Old Persian word magush, meaning to “be able” or “to have power.” In the early nineteenth century, the word magic also took on the connotation of entertainment, delight, or attraction. Magic also implies exotic, alien, or the “other.” This subtext is an important reason why magic is persistently alluring. But that allure often manifests in the sense of watching a train wreck--simultaneously attractive and repulsive. Our magic, which is a core facet of our religious practice, is of course fascinating and perfectly acceptable. But their practices are dangerous, outrageous, and evil.
 

Incidentally, the word fascinate comes from the Latin fascinatus, meaning “to bewitch or enchant.” The words bewitch and enchant have roughly the same meaning as magic, as do the words charm and glamour. Magic is everywhere.
 

 Power
 

As in ages past, many people interested in real magic today are motivated by a desire to wield power--power to get wealth, fame, love, or sex. All of these applications are possible, and there are plenty of books, videos, websites, and smartphone apps that provide recipes for magical rituals and spells.
 

Some folks, especially those who subscribe to an orthodox religious faith, may recoil from the idea of spell-casting. Many traditional religions teach that magic and witchcraft are fundamentally demonic and evil. But the way magic is used is completely up to the magician. The power itself, like any fundamental force of the universe, is morally neutral. Atomic fission and fusion are just aspects of the way the physical world works. Questions of morality arise when we use such natural phenomena to create weapons.
 

Magical power intended to manipulate or exploit others is called black magic. It’s intensely seductive because, as the existentialist philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre once wrote, “Hell is other people.”10 That is, as social creatures, we must depend on others who may or may not be interested in our desires, and that can easily lead to personal conflicts. Use of magic to resolve these conflicts egregiously violates the Golden Rule, so it’s immoral.

[Luna Bliss]

On 7/30/2021 at 2:03 PM, Madelaine McMasters said:

“Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it.” ― Voltaire

The idea that religious/spiritual belief buffers people from the harshness of reality is hardly my invention. It's widely held, including by the religious and spiritual communities. Google "comfort spirituality" to see evidence of this. For evidence of some contention, Google "comfort religion". That there are so many religious belief systems leads me to wonder if the devil is in the details. People who've found the truth are often very sensitive to challenge. Those looking around for it seem less threatened.

“Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it.” ―         Voltaire

Yes indeed, a good quote. But let's apply it to you too, and not just those who believe there is a spiritual dimension to the Universe as well as the physical dimension we can see and/or measure.  
Didn't you "find your truth" and so stopped seeking it when you decided all those who bring quantum realities into their experiences and conception of the world are engaging in "quantum woo"?  You've claimed this without really knowing much about quantum science at all (it's been very apparent) -- about studies in consciousness and the vast number of theoretical physicists attempting to bridge consciousness and known physics with quantum realities.

Haven't you "found your truth" when you allow no other notion of the spiritual but your own conception of it? I've tried to point out there is more to a spiritual reality than some "daddy God" who is there to comfort through the trying times. I totally get that this is what it means to you, but you seem unable to comprehend there are other ways of perceiving a spiritual dimension to the Universe, and instead project what you believe it to be onto others.

Perhaps you need the comfort, as you seem quite threatened by these ideas -- the comfort of imagining you have it all figured out with known scientific laws and proofs, imagining there is some totally understandable Universe if you could just find the right laws to apply to it. In other words, this limited science is your religion (and as I've said before, when you misuse science in this way it is NOT science...it is Scientism).
Quantum realities in science are much more difficult to understand and prove. But we are progressing, and moving beyond a notion of reality that is perceived as mechanical and functioning like a machine.

As we've discussed before (was it 2 or 3 years ago?), I have no problem with atheism. I revealed that my best friend is an atheist, and that I feel it's absurd that an atheist could never be president in the U.S. as it is not a moral issue. I expressed atheists are actually a marginalized group deserving of protection.
Why can't you show me the same respect? Why do you have to add your commentary on how I must be delusional when I (or others) speak of our beliefs and experiences, armed now with your new favorite book pointing to the illogical fallacies humans often engage in, acting like an arm-chair Psychologist who consistently misapplies these patterns without any awareness of the greater amount of information that would be needed to correctly apply them. Since you pride yourself in being so scientific and objective why can't you see that you simply can't allow their experience and so must find confirmation for your viewpoint in whatever way you can in your mission to discredit their experience.

[Madelaine McMasters]

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

What happened between his (Shermer's) modest proposal calling for openness in the face of the mysterious and two years later when he slammed the door shut? I can’t speculate about Shermer’s change of heart,

Shermer never slammed the door shut. He never really opened it. He stands, as ever, willing to enjoy the mysterious while remaining skeptical of paranormal causes.

https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2014/12/04/shermer-has-a-woo-experience-admits-there-may-be-something-to-it/

Here are Shermer's own words explaining the misinterpretation of his recounting of the experience as an acceptance of the paranormal. They were written immediately after his experience and description of it, not two years later.

"To clarify matters... (deleted dead reference to fuller explanation) ...my experience in no way implies something paranormal or supernatural. As I’ve always said (and repeat here), there’s no such thing as the paranormal or supernatural; there is just the normal, the natural, and mysteries as yet unexplained by natural law and chance/contingency.

Much has been made of the subtitle of the original column (stating that my skepticism was shaken to the core), a variation of which was used for the Online title of the essay. As is common in all magazine and newspaper articles, essays, and opinion editorials, the editors write the title and subtitle in a way that will make the article seem more compelling to read, and that is the case here. My Scientific American editors give me much freedom in choosing my own titles and subtitles, but when they have done rewrites for previous columns I have always felt they were better than my original, and this one seemed good to me at the time. But now I see that many readers took it in a way I had not intended. My skepticism is in fine shape."

 

Though I'm retired, I still get numerous design engineering publications. All of them solicit "tales from the field", of either challenging design problems or the troubleshooting of memorable malfunctions. Spooky device behavior is routine fare, and the contributors delight in sussing out the actual causes. My father and neighbor, who sometimes collaborated on small projects for NASA had many such stories. Decades later, I have my share. I suspect Michael Shermer heard explanations from engineers and scientists after the telling of his story that further shift the probabilities in favor of natural explanations.

 

7 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

But wait, aren’t things like ESP and telepathy just wishful thinking and flights of the imagination? Not according to the author, who worked on the US government’s top secret psychic espionage program known as Stargate. Radin has spent the last forty years conducting controlled experiments that demonstrate that thoughts are things, that we can sense others’ emotions and intentions from a distance, that intuition is more powerful than we thought, and that we can tap into the power of intention (think The Secret, only on a more realistic and scientific level). These dormant powers can help us to lead more interesting and fulfilling lives.

Dean Radin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Radin

Project Stargate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project
"The Stargate Project was terminated and declassified in 1995 after a CIA report concluded that it was never useful in any intelligence operation. Information provided by the program was vague and included irrelevant and erroneous data, and there was reason to suspect that its project managers had changed the reports so they would fit background cues.^[4] The program was featured in the 2004 book and 2009 film, both titled The Men Who Stare at Goats,^[5][6][7][8] although neither mentions it by name."

When I described Klee Irwin's work as "Quantum Woo", you said this... "Totally agree - that video was quantum woo."
Irwin is a snake oil salesmen, who has funded Dean Radin.

Here are three refutations of Randin's mind/matter interaction experiments using a double slit:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0211511 (Failure to reproduce)
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.01891/full (Refutation)
https://osf.io/qdkvx/ (Failure to reproduce)

In the interest of fairness, here's Radin's commentary on the second refutation:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.00726/full

And here's the response to the commentary:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.596125/full

In the final commentary, Walleczek and Stillfried effectively accuse Radin of malpractice.

Also note that support for the Von Neuman-Wigner interpretation of QM that "consciousness causes collapse", the object of Radin's double slit research, has waned. Wigner himself recanted, effectively making it the Von Neuman Disagrees with Wigner interpretation.

I'd not heard of Phenoscience Laboratories (home of Walleczek and Stillfried) before, but they seem to be focused on consciousness research in the Bohm tradition.

16 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Perhaps you need the comfort, as you seem quite threatened by these ideas

I won't be continuing this conversation, either because the fear you instill in me might cause me to wet myself, or because I don't believe you'll make any headway.

[Love Zhaoying]

In my experience, doing it is a lot more fun than just talking about it. Telepathy, I mean of course.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Love Zhaoying

[Madelaine McMasters]

36 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Oh, my! This makes me..tingle!

Both "paranormal" and "supernatural" mean what we want them to mean, when we use the words. 

As do "normal" and "natural" ;-).

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

 

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Oh, my! This makes me..tingle!

Both "paranormal" and "supernatural" mean what we want them to mean, when we use the words. 

As do "normal" and "natural" ;-).

 

Exactly!!! (You caught my post before I trashed it, thinking the post was unnecessarily negative. Sorry!)

[Luna Bliss]

11 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Shermer never slammed the door shut. He never really opened it. He stands, as ever, willing to enjoy the mysterious while remaining skeptical of paranormal causes.

*Cherry-picking at its finest*

Two possible errors by a researcher with a 30 plus years career would not invalidate everything they've ever done. I would think you'd be aware of this, but your lack of scientific standards and logical thinking shows itself yet again. Some does not equal all, and we cannot invalidate an individual totally based on a supposed few errors -- we'd have to totally invalidate every researcher that ever lived.
Even worse, you try to back up your beliefs by using some tiff between two opponents as evidence -- we simply can't get to the bottom of it as we are not privy to what actually transpired between them in private. Neither do I accept the opinion of die-hard materialists who want to dismiss their opponent.

BTW, I posted the Real Magic book for those who might be unaware of the history regarding psi phenomena and spirituality, and to demonstrate the vast amount of scientific research being done in this area, and not as some type of definitive proof of psi.

The Journal Of Parapsychology does have a good reputation -- their research is scientific -- but they are dismissed by die-hard scientists who believe only materialism is valid and so dismiss psi phenomena from the get-go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Parapsychology

Edited August 2, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

11 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I won't be continuing this conversation

I hope this means you'll assess your responses to those posting their psi experiences too.

My primary goal here has not been to prove if psi experiences exists or not via experiments, and I don't base my perception of reality on only what has been proven and announced in the NYTimes -- I'll leave proof to the researchers I've pointed to.
My concern has been the allowance of some space for those who want to share their psi experiences without you jumping in to tell them they're delusional, based on your screwy personal experiences with friends where you fooled them, your obsession with books that demonstrate that humans do think illogically at times, and your unmovable belief in an exclusively materialistic world view based on the scientists you approve of.

My RL experiences have been very different, as I have witnessed actual psi phenomena, personally and with others, and so of course I believe in some cases psi phenomena is real.

I've helped others who've encountered overwhelming experiences where their world view was shattered, in the Spiritual Emergence Network:
https://www.spiritualemergencenetwork.org/
When dealing with these people you'll discover the abhorrent treatment by others close to them, ranging from ridicule to forcing them into psychiatric institutions. Fortunately, many make their way to supportive people who help them through the crisis.

This is not some game, some parlor trick or 'having funzies with your friends'. These people are often terrified because their entire perception of the world changes. I don't think most people understand what it means to have their world view change so significantly in that respect -- it can take months if not years to adjust.

Nobody on this thread has shared such earth-shattering experiences but it has been apparent they felt very intensely about what they did share. I can't help being protective and attempting to tamp down those who jump in off the bat to discredit them, like you frequently do.
You treat them like they're some type of experiment to validate your own world view, like one of your engineering projects you're certain you can resolve in your favor by tweaking their mind, instead of as real people who deserve some acceptance and support. This is what bugs me about you -- you seem to think other people's minds are there for your manipulation -- like the neighbor you created false memories in (lying to her about what you experienced together so as to plant a memory that didn't actually occur).

Anyway, I guess you feel justified in invalidating people's perceptions because you're so certain their experience is invalid?  I'm not asking you to believe it's valid, I've only been asking you to allow them to speak without attempting to prove they are wrong. It's THEIR experience, not yours to control.
There's a difference between discussing a subject in an abstract manner vs psychoanalyzing another's experience -- I'm not sure you comprehend the difference.

[Madelaine McMasters]

10 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

In my experience, doing it is a lot more fun than just talking about it. Telepathy, I mean of course.

There are so many ways to communicate, it's fun to explore them.

[Luna Bliss]

Excitedly waiting for this book by the theoretical physicist F. David Peat, a cohort of David Bohm.

Blackfoot Physics: A Journey into the Native American Worldview

"One summer in the 1980s, theoretical physicist F. David Peat went to a Blackfoot Sun Dance ceremony. Having spent all of his life steeped in and influenced by linear Western science, he was entranced by the Native American worldview and, through dialogue circles between scientists and native elders, he began to explore it in greater depth.

Blackfoot Physics is the account of his discoveries. In an edifying synthesis of anthropology, history, metaphysics, cosmology, and quantum theory, Peat compares the medicines, the myths, the languages, and the entire perceptions of reality of the Western and indigenous peoples. What becomes apparent is the amazing resemblance between indigenous teachings and some of the insights that are emerging from modern science, a congruence that is as enlightening about the physical universe as it is about the circular evolution of humanity's understanding. Through Peat's insightful observations, he extends our understanding of ourselves, our understanding of the universe, and how the two intersect in a meaningful vision of human life in relation to a greater reality".

[Silent Mistwalker]

Gee. Scientists are finally starting to catch on. It's about time.

[Arielle Popstar]

 

[Luna Bliss]

Investigating F David Peat's book on synchronicity now:

Synchronicity: The Bridge Between Mind & Matter

http://www.fdavidpeat.com/bibliography/books/synchronicity.htm

synchronicity.htmttp://www.fdavidpeat.com/ideas/synchronicity.htm

"As physicists search for a unified field theory, so Carl Jung and others searched for synchronicity -- the unifying principle behind meaningful coincidence, individual consciousness and the totality of space and time. Now, F. David Peat joins these two quests into one intriguing journey to show the connection between quantum theory and synchronicity, and to open the way to an exciting new understanding about the bridge between matter and mind.

In exploring the nature of energy, time, chance, causality and coincidence, Peat draws on the works of Jung, Wolfgang Pauli, Ilya Prigogine, David Bohm, John Wheeler and others. What emerges is evidence of a hidden order, of a creative universe that expresses itself in individual lives.

With fascinating historical anecdotes and incisive scientific analysis, this important work combines ancient thought with modern theory to reveal a new way of viewing our universe that can expand our awareness, out lives, and may well point the way to a new science for the twenty-first century".

Edited August 4, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Arielle Popstar]

Interesting talk by Nassim Haramein relating to new discoveries on Quantum mechanics and current thinking on the nature of entanglement, likening the connections to micro wormholes between particles. He also mentions some of the innovations that it is leading to in the near future. Worth a watch.

 

PS, he is considered somewhat fringe but the way he lays it out makes a lot of sense. He is great for not using highly technical jargon and speaks in layman terms.