Gaming SL / SL ''The Game''

[Cio Koba]

When some people read that LL wants to make Sl more like the game, they just burst in flames, others cry or scream, I, on the other hand thinks of it as the future of SL, a part of its salvation (if it really is vanishing).

Its not like SL becoming a game with quests and so (although a few fun quests or achievements for nubies would help aslo). Its more like making SL more playable.

One of the things that makes me log in everyday I can is my passion for motorbikes. I like to drive them in SL as atm i cant in RL. All of you have experienced driving in sl so i wont have to explain myself further. Now imagine that on a track. Of course you can lap it, of course its fun, even with all the bumping, sliding underground or flying. But it would be much better if those things didnt happen, more people would enjoy it, SL would be more popular.

This is my personal experience, sure people that like FPSs and like those things in sl too would agree with me, would like Sl to be more like a game. And I cant imagine the troubles people have when they play soccer, baseball or basketball (wow, scripting a bascketball game for Sl must be tough..).

I dont know how this gamification im talking will come, but its not only good for the people who play these sl games, its better for everyone, starting by content creators, who could make many more things and make much more money as there would be more people engaged in these activities.

After this I dont want to hear anyone say that if you want to play you better go to your xbox, cause above all we are enjoing Sl and thats what we like most.

[Randall Ahren]

With the motorbikes, you have to cross sim boundaries. You don't have to do that with soccer and other games, so that is one advantage. I've tried hockey in SL. It was kind of interesting. Bowling in SL is my favorite. Try Pando Carnival and Amusement Park for some good SL games.

[squashy Beeswing]

Where have LL stated they wanted to make SL more like a game?

Or do you mean they want it to run more smoothly like a "proper" "gaming" platform?  (Sorry; my knowledge of online gaming is limited so i can't really give examples.  I'm assuming you mean things like WoW?)

AFAIK, SL has always been laggy and glitchy as hell.  We'd all like that to improve.  That said, it's not going to to happen anytime soon so best accept the situation as is and continue to make the best of it.  It's what we all do; those of us who stick around, anyhow.

It's good to hear you're enjoying your SL, regardless.  :matte-motes-smile:

[Phil Deakins]

LL are not trying to turn SL into a game-like environment. What they've been doing is trying to make it appeal to people who like the messaging environments, such as MySpace and Facebook, and games. They are younger people's environments although some older people also partake in them, and LL has tried to make SL *look" appealing to the younger people. Specifically, the V2 viewer and not in SL itself.

The idea of being game-like isn't, and never was, seen as the future of SL. LL's hoped-for future has changed over time (along wiith all the people at LL) but in a different way. Initially, the SL-like enviroment was seen by LL as a serious internet future but, over time, it has changed to leaving SL more-or-less as it is and trying to get as much money as possible out of it while they can. The SL environment hasn't shown any signs of growing as a serious use of the internet - like websites did - so LL abandoned the work that they were doing in that direction. Now, all they are interested in is getting as much money as they can out of it, while they still can. That's not a criticism, btw. Any business should be doing  that. I vehemently criticise some of the ways they go about it though.

[Venus Petrov]

There was a thread once comparing SL to a 'game' and I argued that SL should not be marketed as a 'game' because real gamers would be disappointed.  However, my thinking has evolved and it no longer matters to me what people think of it as long as they think of it and those that become residents enjoy their time inworld.

[Jaylin Wytchwood]

SL is, what you make out if it.

You get RP, you got Combat, Exploration, Drive Bikes, Sail Yachts, Fly, Create... what do you miss? Quests?  Do a Hunt, lead a Roleplay, win a Sailing Regatta, Kill 10 Enemies at a combat sim, Build an Item that sells well..

What you do out ouf SL is entirely ours.

You wont get XP though, you dont have a Gear Spiral, God, who needs? 

SL has it all.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lyra Blackthorne]

I agree, everything is here whether you wish to scialize or game.  The problem for new people is finding their direction.  The new viewer certainly doesn't help...just look at the questions in the Answers section where they cannot find where to edit their avie or wear clothes with the Basic and Advanced modes.  And then there are the modesty skins they are born with that must not come with any messaging, given how many "how do I take my clothes off" questions.

There is new work on search happening maybe that will help in finding destinations...though given past results more fearful than hopefull...and the new don't really know what to look for when they first land even if search worked. Finding answers in the wiki is even harder than finding what you want inworld.  The Answers forum is great but I am not sure many find their way there...mostly I think they just leave

SL is complicated and not like any other online enviornment; think personal greeters to help the new would be helpful.  There used to be a volunteer staffed mentor group for that but they were poofed.  .

[Dogboat Taurog]

you said it yourself with your x-box comment, sl will never be as smooth or reliable as a proper gaming system.

no serious gamer would use SL as a platform for fps games.

get an x -box.

[WADE1 Jya]

Not all gamers like the most technically advanced platforms best thats why retro emulation is still popular.

Gamers will play anything fun & interesting.

For example I still like a simple classic such as mario bros. 3 (or even pacman) better than the latest darkly realistic military glorification blockbuster.

[Wildcat Furse]

Second life is a LEGO for adults ...:smileyvery-happy: *meows*

(PS. a game ....)

[Cio Koba]

Ok, Sl will never be like a game console at the time to play games smooth .. but wouldnt it be great?

Imagine being in sl and being able to drive a car like in a decent car game, im not talking like GT5, but hope you get the idea, it would just be awsome.

[WADE1 Jya]

I'm getting into vehicles more again lately and am testing a new engine I currently have under development. What I find is a big part of vehicle "smoothness" is we simply need larger "levels".... viewing SL as a game for vehicles, sims are just too small to keep a fast speed up and not hit some kind of boundary.

It's mostly a scale issue there I think that unlimiting sim size would mostly solve. There's no technological limitation here just changing a bit of code (and a change to land sales operations & tier structure no doubt) :matte-motes-bashful:

[Penny Patton]

I agree that SL would benefit greatly from being more "game like" in certain respects. That's very different from suggesting SL should become a game, or suggesting it should do fast paced action/combat like can be done on a console or computer game.

Also, while I agree that SL will never be able to do combat well, there are plenty of things it could do, or could do better than it does now. These things include the interface (why is SL's UI trying to mimic a file editing programme or an old style web browser when it should be trying to mimic a game/social network?), animating in-world objects, non-player character objects to populate sims with "characters", etcetera.

These things would not only be useful for attracting "gamers", but would be exceedingly useful in LL's apparent goal of the moment ( or any of its previous goals).

[Penny Patton]

Also, RE:Sim Boundaries.

 

It always amazes me that people are so willing to scale everything up in SL to gargantuan proportions. Avatars are regularly 7-8' tall or larger. Vehicles, homes, etcetera all tend to be fully double scale.

Does nobody realize that this shrinks the effective size of a sim considerably?

When you double size vehicles and environments you effectively shrink sims down to 1/4th their actual size. Consider that effect on things like vehicles, population concetration, etcetera.

[Penny Patton]

Hell, consider it's effect on tier. Basically paying 4 times as much for what you're getting from land. There's a reason all videogames restrict character size even when they give you control over your appearance. SL doesn't even provide your correct height.

[Phil Deakins]

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Penny Patton wrote:

Also, RE:Sim Boundaries.

 

It always amazes me that people are so willing to scale everything up in SL to gargantuan proportions. Avatars are regularly 7-8' tall or larger. Vehicles, homes, etcetera all tend to be fully double scale.

Does nobody realize that this shrinks the effective size of a sim considerably?

When you double size vehicles and environments you effectively shrink sims down to 1/4th their actual size. Consider that effect on things like vehicles, population concetration, etcetera.

---

The reason why everything is unrealistically large in SL is the camera (the view position) inside buildings. If you have a home that's made to RL scale, and you are a typical RL height, then you'd feel utterly cramped in your home because of the camera position, and camming anywhere inside it would be really bad. So furniture has to be larger to cope with necessarily larger rooms and, therefore, avatars need to be larger to look reasonable on the furniture.

[Dogboat Taurog]

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WADE1 Jya wrote:

Not all gamers like the most technically advanced platforms best thats why retro emulation is still popular.

Gamers will play anything fun & interesting.

For example I still like a simple classic such as mario bros. 3 (or even pacman) better than the latest darkly realistic military glorification blockbuster.

---

i doubt if you could reliably play pacman here, let alone mario.

[Penny Patton]

>The reason why everything is unrealistically large in SL is the camera

That's one reason, and that only applies to buildings, really. It's a good point, tho, and the reason I've been petitioning Linden Lab to improve SL's camera placement. Really, changing a few settings in the debug menu drastically improves the SL camera and allows for 1=1 scale buildings with no camera problems.

One thing I do need to address, "avatars need to be larger to fit the furniture which needs to be larger to fit the buildings". The problem with this is that camera height is relative to your avatar. Make your avatar larger and the camera is lifted higher.Increase your avatar height by one foot and your camera raises higher by one foot. So no matter what you do, the building will have to be larger scale than the furniture inside of it. Best to keep your avatar realistically sized, reducing the need to up-scale further.

 

 Better still to simply fix the camera. Using just SL's existing camera attributes you can get  camera placement identical to most any third person videogame made since 2005. It's a huge improvement. I've even demonstrated it for a couple Lindens with a 1=1 scale model of my very own real life apartment. Complete with furnishings and a 2.45m high ceiling. (Typical for real world apartments, yet shorter than many SL avatars.)

[Cio Koba]

Hi Penny! Ive been reading several of your posts and you always say something againts actual AV size. You are so right!

Smaller Avs mean more space in the sim and less prim usage so its only win with it. Specially now that mesh comes in which the bigger the mesh is the more prims it counts. I think people are starting to realize this so i think is just a matter of time .

As I think you know my point here was to make sl more game like, not a game, so I completely agree with your statement about the interface.

Thanks for your posts!

[Melita Magic]

Games have been around in Second Life for a while. Type games in search, you should get many results.

Greedy Greedy, things like that. Also there are basketball games. I have some on my Favorites list, in case I ever make room somewhere to put one.

The thing I like perhaps best about Second Life is that there is something for everyone. I hope it never goes just all one way over all others.

As for racing tracks some were made long ago, I've seen other ones that have much improved physics. Someone recently gave me a car ride for the ocean, and the cars on it stay on the track no matter what. I'm sure that could happen for go karts and tracks. 

[Penny Patton]

The games available in SL are all very, very simple and limited.Also, things like vehicles in SL are extremely crude compared to vehicles in even games more than ten-fifteen years old now.

I don't believe the argument ever was for making SL into a videogame. The suggestion was to improve those elements that make SL a more engaging and immersive world. Elements videogames have gotten very good at where SL started out way behind the curve and has since failed to improve at all.

 

I really should be able to create, say, a scary village sim with a few frightened or creepy non-player "characters" that look like avatars, are dressed and animated as well as avatars can be, scripted so you can interact with them. I should be able to use the same sort of "NPC" objects to create animals roaming the landscape. Zombies, ghosts and other creatures that jump out of the shadows at you.

In more social sims I should be able to use such "NPC objects" to create local wildlife to help bring an environment to life, and automated hosts to provide information to visitors in a much more lifelike way than the lifeless scripted objects and group invite bots we have today.

 

 We should be able to rig up objects (prims, sculpts, meshes) to animation skeletons, giving yet more life to SL's currently very static environments.

[Penny Patton]

It's important to make the distinction between elements people might describe as "game like" as opposed to turning SL itself into a game.

We only call such elements "game like" because videogames make up the bulk of virtual worlds, they are kissing cousins to SL.

Such elements, such as being able to lend more animation to vehicles, environments, and even avatar attachments, a more streamlined and easier to use interface that is more appropriate for the SL environment, the ability to script things such as camera features and windlight settings....all of these things would benefit more than just those looking for a "videogame".

They'd bring more life to what is currently a very static environment. They'd open up all kinds of opportunities for a more engaging world, even for those here to socialize, shop, and do business. They'd make educational projects far more powerful and evocative. They'd give marketing in SL more mass appeal.

 

Imagine educational recreations of historical environments, not just models but living, breathing worlds full of historical characters to talk to, and animated environments you can interact with to learn more about the period.

Imagine fully interactive movie trailers in the form of interactive sims.

Imagine cars, jeeps, tanks in SL with suspensions which react to uneven terrain.

So many possiblities which would make SL a much more powerful platform for everyone, and a much more marketable platform for LL.