Modify permissions changed when sending items in a box.

[Alexis Savon]

Hello and hopefully this is something simple I'm just missing.

I am trying to box wearable items I've created to send to other AVs, friends, alts, etc.

The items themselves are full perm but do contain no-mod scripts and animations.

If I drag and drop the item onto the AV or into their profile all the permissions are retained correctly and they can modify.

If I place the items into another container (box) so I can send multiple items at once, then they come out as no-mod when the recipient takes them into inventory. The box is full perms BTW.

I've been in SL for 13 years but just came back to it after several years off so I'm not sure if something has changed regarding the permissions system but I've never had this issue before.

Just FYI for what i've already tried:

All prims have been checked and are FP

I've used the Edit>Content>Adjust Content Permissions on both the items and the box and everything is set correctly.

I've check both the item and box while they;re in inventory and of course the Modify checkbox is grayed out so can;t change anything there.

The no-mod scripts and animations are from another creator so I can't make any changes to their permissions

 

Thanks for any help

[Alyona Su]

14 hours ago, Alexis Savon said:

• Thanks for any help

In SL you can embed objects into other objects and each object has the permissions of Copy, Transfer, Modify. These permissions are restrictive - meaning they are either allowed or not allowed.

So, when embedding one item into another item, the permissions go with it. For example:

• Box A - Copy, Not modify, No-transfer.
• Box B - No-Copy, Yes Modify, Yes Transfer.
  • But Box A inside Box B - Take into inventory.
    • In Inventory, Box B now reports: No-Copy, No-Modify, No-Transfer.

This is because the Box B takes on the permissions of Box A that is inside it. If you Rez Box B you will see that Box B still has its original permissions: No-Copy, Yes to Transfer and Modify, though the Box A inside it still maintains its permissions: Yes-Copy and No-Transfer or Modify.

So all objects that contain other things will take on the permissions of those other things when in your inventory.

Two important things to know:

• If you set permissions while an object is rezzed, take it into inventory, then change permissions. For the next owner: There will be two sets of permissions: One set while it is in inventory (the permissions you changed them to) and another set of permissions when they rez it (the original permissions you set while it was rezzed).
• As the owner, you always have full permissions. If you are a creator, make certain all items have the permissions set the way you want them - both rezzed-permissions and inventory-permissions.

The dual permissions system (Inventory versus rezzed) was a bug, but creators liked it so now it is thought of as a feature. BUT it can trip-up some creators.

[Alexis Savon]

Thanks for the reply Alyona,

I'm aware that what you posted is "supposed" to be how permissions work but my situation is a little different.

First, the *slam bit* which is where you change permissions while an object is in inventory and they are not applied until the object is rezzed.

I can't change the modify permissions while the object is in inventory so it doesn't apply to this particular situation.

In my situation:

Box A (container) Copy/Mod/Transfer

Box B (item) Copy/Mod(with no-mod scripts and anims)/transfer when it's placed into Box A

When Box A is given to another person

Box A still Copy/Mod/Transfer

Box B becomes Copy/No-Mod on entire item/Transfer

So next owner permissions are not being retained on Box B but are reverting to the most restrictive permissions because of the no-mod scripts and anims.

However, when Box B is transferred directly to another person it stays Copy/Mod(no-mod scripts and anims)/Transfer

Thanks

[Alyona Su]

Sounds like it's working as intended.

If the box is copy/mod and the contents are copy/no-mod and that's what you want the next owner to have then that's what they'll get. If you want the box to also be no-mod then you have to set the box to no mod. The box and the contents have separate permissions. So I'm just not understanding what you WANT and and what is HAPPENING that you do not want.

Explain what you WANT to happen then explain what IS happening, then explain the difference (what is happening that you don't want or vice-versa).

Edited October 15, 2019 by Alyona Su

[Alexis Savon]

It's definitely not working as intended.

I'll see if I can clarify.

What I WANT to happen is they get the items in the box with Copy/Mod/Trans permissions.

What is happening is they are getting the items in the box with Copy/No-Mod/Trans permissions

 

If I don;t use a box, they get the items with Copy/Mod/Trans permissions but that's very inefficient when sending multiple items or if I ever want to put anything up for sale.

[Bree Giffen]

The items with no-mod scripts are still modifiable even though they say 'no mod' in the inventory list of the box. 

[Alexis Savon]

Hello Bree and I'm aware that they will say no mod in inventory but the items become entirely no mod in world.

Thanks

[Nova Convair]

6 minutes ago, Alexis Savon said:

Hello Bree and I'm aware that they will say no mod in inventory but the items become entirely no mod in world.

Thanks

Not true if you do it right.

If that really happens then one of the scripts sets permissions on rez.

[Alyona Su]

Rez the box. Put the items you want to include inside the box. Click the PERMISSIONS button in the edit window. Select the TYPE of items you want to set permissions for. Set the permissions you want those items to have. Click the set permissions button at the bottom of that widget. Click the button at least two or three or five times to ensure the system applies the permissions you want. Take the box. Transfer the box to an alt to test it (or trusted friend) - they rez the box and the inners should all have the permissions you set.

Obviously permissions you cannot change are for those you do not have access to (because another creator, etc.)

[Alexis Savon]

Hello Nova, 

if that were the case then the items would do the same things when transferred directly.

Alyona, I've done all that but I did it again and clicked the button ten times with the same result

If anyone is in world and interested, I have a test item and test box that contains the item that I can send to you.

Unless it's something specific to my AV (and alts), you'll get the direct transferred item with full perms and the boxed item (Which is the exact same item) will be no-mod 

Thanks

[Mollymews]

SL does some weird stuff on the region server sometimes.  Suggest you try doing a setup on another region and see what happens

if is not the region server, then second suggestion is to do a setup with prim boxes rezzed brand-new, and see if the same thing is happening with new prims as well

 

[Alexis Savon]

Hi Molly,

I tried both of those lol, I went to a premium sandbox, no change,

I created the test item from scratch, then ran the installer package which adds the anims and scripts. no change.

FYI,

The current items i'm working on are collars and I'm using the No9 Peanut creators kit by Wendy Starfall.

I'm going to reach out to that group as well and see if anyone has encountered something like this.

I'm also going to try with different scripts (not using the creators kit) and see what the results are.

Thanks

[Mollymews]

4 minutes ago, Alexis Savon said:

The current items i'm working on are collars

ah! ok. I did wonder why you wanted this particular arrangements of permissions

modify permissions for the giver.  no-modify for the givee

as you say, it should work, but it isn't and I dunno why either of the top my head.  Just that it has to be something. If you like send me a IM inworld and I can have a look at it, I might spot something

[Alexis Savon]

Will do the next tiem I'm online and thanks

 

[Alexis Savon]

Will do the next tiem I'm online and thanks

 

I sent you three items Molly,

The original collar

the basic prim collar \

the box containing both collars

The separate collars should be full perm (not counting the no-mod scripts and anims)

Thanks

[Qie Niangao]

I need to find time to try replicating something like this in-world. One thing I'll test is whether it matters if the container is stocked while rezzed on the ground as opposed to attached... or have you already tried this?

[Mollymews]

12 hours ago, Alexis Savon said:

I sent you three items Molly,

i got and had a play

i couldn't replicate what is happening for you. I am unsure what your workflow is to arrive at the situation you find yourself in.  I sent you an IM (you were offline so hopefully you will get next time you are on) and I also sent you a test box with a box in contents with another box inside that, with the permissions set as you have posted.  The test box permissions are all as they should be when the box is transferred to another account

so I dunno why it works as it should for me and not for you. if is not the server then is something about your workflow which is different to mine I think

[Alexis Savon]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

I need to find time to try replicating something like this in-world. One thing I'll test is whether it matters if the container is stocked while rezzed on the ground as opposed to attached... or have you already tried this?

I haven't tried stocking it while it's attached. Good idea though. I'll try that method when I'm able

[Alexis Savon]

1 minute ago, Mollymews said:

i got and had a play

i couldn't replicate what is happening for you. I am unsure what your workflow is to arrive at the situation you find yourself in.  I sent you an IM (you were offline so hopefully you will get next time you are on) and I also sent you a test box with a box in contents with another box inside that, with the permissions set as you have posted.  The test box permissions are all as they should be when the box is transferred to another account

so I dunno why it works as it should for me and not for you. if is not the server then is something about your workflow which is different to mine I think

I received your test boxes Molly and they were all fine but they didn't contain any scripts. If I send the collars (boxed) unscripted they retain their permissions correctly.

It's has to be something to do with adding the no-mod scripts and anims and the way SL is applying the next owner permissions. 

As Nova mentioned earlier about one of the scripts settings permissions when rezzed, I could understand it if the same thing happened on a direct transferred item but since those are fine it's really bugging the heck out of me lol.

I've been in SL for almost 13 years and I use to send items this way all the time and never had this problem and it could be some act of stupidity on my part.

What about the items I sent you? were the direct transferred items full perm and the boxed items no-mod?

Thanks

[Mollymews]

Just now, Alexis Savon said:

It's has to be something to do with adding the no-mod scripts and anims and the way SL is applying the next owner permissions.

ah! ok.  I will have a go at that and see what happens

[Alexis Savon]

As for workflow,

Create the prim item(s) with full perms on all prims

Run the installer and it adds the scripts and anims. some of which are no-mod.

Take the item(s) into inventory and send to an alt for testing

Received item(s) on alt still has all the correct permissions. Full perm on the prims and no-mod on some of the scripts and anims

Create full perm box for sending multiple items

Place same item(s) sent to alt in box

Send to alt

Alt rezzes box in world and copies items to inventory.

Alt either wears or rezzes the item on ground

Items are all now no-mod on the entire item 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Alexis Savon
correction

[Alexis Savon]

Just an update,

Redid the exact same steps today as the past two days and now my alts are getting the boxed items with the correct permissions.

I'll just mark this one up to SL being it's usual wierd self on some days.

Thanks again to everyone for all the help.

Additionally, thanks again Molly for all your help in testing.

*muah*

Edited October 16, 2019 by Alexis Savon

[Alyona Su]

16 hours ago, Alexis Savon said:

The current items i'm working on are collars and I'm using the No9 Peanut creators kit by Wendy Starfall.

The Open Collar fiasco was a real drama-cesspool. The Peanut No.9 is no longer open source and is now a private enterprise (which is why they are no-modify) - I recommend you get the still-open-source version of the Open Collar scripts and try with those. Because the peanut No.9 version is now a private creators work, who knows what kind of wonky "security" she is putting into them (and may likely be the very source of this frustration you face)?

Just thinking aloud.

[Alexis Savon]

5 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

The Open Collar fiasco was a real drama-cesspool. The Peanut No.9 is no longer open source and is now a private enterprise (which is why they are no-modify) - I recommend you get the still-open-source version of the Open Collar scripts and try with those. Because the peanut No.9 version is now a private creators work, who knows what kind of wonky "security" she is putting into them (and may likely be the very source of this frustration you face)?

Just thinking aloud.

I may look at doing that.

SL permissions have always been a little on the "touchy" side, requiring certain steps is a certain order to get what you want, then add in other creators content with perms that you have no control over and things can go sideways.

But at least it's cleared up for the moment.

[Whirly Fizzle]

Out of interest, what region were you doing your testing on?
Is it possible a region restart or roll to a different server version fixed it?