Tier linked to stipend

[Female Winslet]

I’m sure I cannot be the first time person to think about this, so I apologize if this has been discussed to death and I am just missing it. 

I pay a certain fee to be a premium member. In exchange, LL gives me a small amount of tier (1024 m) and a small stipend of $300L per week. In my case, I also pay a monthly fee for quite a bit more than 1024 m of land because that small amount of tier did it’s job and got me hooked on how much fun land ownership can be. But that additional payment provides me with nothing in terms of additional stipend. 

I’ve been reading about the economics and business’s model of SL. It seems that most of the money is made by land tier. That makes sense given that land tier provides a predictable monthly income whereas Linden purchases are sporadic, irregular, small bits of income.  

So wouldn’t it make sense to link Linden income to tier to encourage people to buy up more land instead of saving funds for more less profitable Linden purchases?

I can only speak for myself, of course, but if I had a correspondingly greater stipend because of how much I pay in tier, I would instantly buy up even more land and bump myself up to the next level of monthly tier. As it is, I hold on to real life funds to buy Lindens now and then instead of using the money on more land purchases. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Female Winslet
Fixing topic

[Ethan Paslong]

49 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

I’m sure I cannot be the first time person to think about this, so I apologize if this has been discussed to death and I am just missing it. 

I pay a certain fee to be a premium member. In exchange, LL gives me a small amount of tier (1024 m) and a small stipend of $300L per week. In my case, I also pay a monthly fee for quite a bit more than 1024 m of land because that small amount of tier did it’s job and got me hooked on how much fun land ownership can be. But that additional payment provides me with nothing in terms of additional stipend. 

I’ve been reading about the economics and business’s model of SL. It seems that most of the money is made by land tier. That makes sense given that land tier provides a predictable monthly income whereas Linden purchases are sporadic, irregular, small bits of income.  

So wouldn’t it make sense to link Linden income to tier to encourage people to buy up more land instead of saving funds for more less profitable Linden purchases?

I can only speak for myself, of course, but if I had a correspondingly greater stipend because of how much I pay in tier, I would instantly buy up even more land and bump myself up to the next level of monthly tier. As it is, I hold on to real life funds to buy Lindens now and then instead of using the money on more land purchases. 

in short you want more stipend from LL to pay to LL for more land...?...  not sure where the logic is in that

LL is just turning their income away from what you say here, less income from the land, because it proved not to be a reliable source in long time span, the landmarket totally died last years. Now they'r aiming on sales fees and of course a raise of fees for the financial transfers.

[Female Winslet]

6 hours ago, Ethan Paslong said:

in short you want more stipend from LL to pay to LL for more land...?...  not sure where the logic is in that

Simple. LL doesn’t earn much directly, if anything, from land sales. The earning comes from people paying tier. More land purchased = higher tier payment. Which would seem to be highly desirable from LL’s perspective. 

[Ethan Paslong]

4 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

Simple. LL doesn’t earn much directly, if anything, from land sales. The earning comes from people paying tier.

no it's not that simple, the land economics are more complicated.

people have to be premium to get land = fee
people buy lindens to buy mainland = fee
people buy on mp to decorate their land = fee
people pay fo tiers = fee
people selling lindens after landsales = fee
people cashing out after landsales = fee
lot of land is sold by auction/special request for abandoned parcels = fee

They don't earn money from landsales?... perhaps not directly but there's so much more connected to it.

 

11 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

would seem to be highly desirable from LL’s perspective. 

hmm i'm not so sure, it's more desirable for the user than for LL.

[Klytyna]

8 hours ago, Female Winslet said:

It seems that most of the money is made by land tier

But 2/3rds of the grids land is "private estates" where the "estate owner" doesn't even have to be an Entitlement Club member, and tus wouldn't get stipend at all, and where they earn the money to pay their monthly "maintenance fee" (not tier), by renting to the many people in SL who are NOT Entitlement Club members.

So in point of fact, most of the "land based revenue" doesn't come from tier payers at all, or from stipend receivers...

...

So, despite Madlands plots being 33 % cheaper than Islands plots to maintain, and gettinga 10% price cut this earlier year, and more free land...

YOU feel ENTITLED to more handouts and subsidies, payed for by the non Madlanders non Entitlement Club members.

1 hour ago, Female Winslet said:

Simple. LL doesn’t earn much directly, if anything, from land sales. The earning comes from people paying tier. More land purchased = higher tier payment. Which would seem to be highly desirable from LL’s perspective.

Actually, they would make more money if they nuked your Madlands holdings and forced you to rent from an estate owner who pays more ($250/ month instead of $175/month per region), and who'd pass that price increase along to you with a markup...

That's why 2/3rds of the grid isn't Madlands...

 

[Callum Meriman]

If 1024m2 is L$300 a week, would it be a linear scale? L$19200 a week for a region?

If so, woohoo, I would rake in L$96000 a week! It would equal 4 free full regions!! And of course, with those 4 free regions... more money.

Lots and lots of money!

[Fionalein]

Silly question: .... why don't you pay two accounts and then use group shared lands? 2 Stipends and cheaper than 1024 tier too ...

Edited December 12, 2018 by Fionalein

[Hintswen Guardian]

Why on earth would they pay you for owning more land? Why wouldn't they just reduce the fees if they wanted to reward you for owning more land.

[LittleMe Jewell]

As Fionalein mentioned, just create more Premium accounts - that's what I did.  If you are self-disciplined and save the stipends of those alt accounts, at the end of your yearly membership, you can cash out the L$ stipends you've received and cover all but roughly US$12 of each next yearly fee.

At 8 Premium accounts, I have a total of 8192 sqm donated to my land group and the 10% bonus gives me another 819 sqm.  That's 9011 sqm of land I can own without incurring any additional monthly tier.  If I was self-disciplined enough to save all of my stipends for cash out, that 9011 sqm would cost me US$96 for the year.  

Since LL wants to make money off of tier, I don't know that it makes much sense for them to give you more L$ for owning more tier.  That is basically cutting into their profit margin.

Edited December 12, 2018 by LittleMe Jewell

[Female Winslet]

3 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

If 1024m2 is L$300 a week, would it be a linear scale? L$19200 a week for a region?

If so, woohoo, I would rake in L$96000 a week! It would equal 4 free full regions!! And of course, with those 4 free regions... more money.

Lots and lots of money!

And more tier you'd have to pay on those regions. Even if it was linear--and I don't know whether it would be--you'd still never make enough to offset tier payments. But I do see what you mean about large land holders owning a lot.

I had trouble deciphering Klytyna's post, but I think she is suggesting those who purchase private islands would be excluded from receiving a stipend. I don't see why. My whole point is premium membership and tier being kinda the same thing. I.e., the more you pay in, the more you get back. So I don't see why private region owners would not get the same.

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Female Winslet

[Klytyna]

36 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

I had trouble deciphering Klytyna's post

A common problem amongst Madlanders blinded by Entitlement issues...

36 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

but I think she is suggesting those who purchase private islands would be excluded from receiving a stipend.

No, I'mstating that A) you don't have to join the $72 a year Madlands Entitlement Club and get stipend to own a Private Region, and B) that the monthly fees payable on a private region are NOT "tier" but are Maintenance" and you can't apply your "free Madlander Entitlement Club land allowance" towards it for example.

39 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

I don't see why

Because they might NOT be Entltlement Club members...

48 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

So I don't see why private region owners would not get the same.

Might not receive stipend at all, and they don't pay tier... Is that too hard for you to decipher?

40 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

My whole point is premium membership and tier being kinda the same thing. I.e., the more you pay in, the more you get back

Not the same thing...

Entitlement Club Membership is $72 a year. You get about $60-$62 back a year in stipend, depending on the exchange rate.

That means you are paying about $1 a month for the FREE 1024 parcel, and getting 300 L$ a week.

As has been pointed out, if the stipend was linear with land ownership...

4 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

If 1024m2 is L$300 a week, would it be a linear scale? L$19200 a week for a region?

...then owning a $175/month tier Madlands region, would generate enough stipend to RENT a private region, from an estate owner paying a $249/month maintenance, AND the estate owners profit margin, and STILL have enough L$ let over to buy a NEW mesh body EVERY WEEK!

So, basically you are asking for a "buy one Madlands region, get an Island region FREE" deal, with a mesh body throws in every week as a sweetener.

You are asking for more cash back than you pay in. You are suggesting that LL pay you more than $325 per month in stipend because you pay them $175 a month in tier?

Entitled much? You seem to have trouble deciphering common sense, and the idea that people might react badly to your mathamatically inept concept of what's beneficial to a business like LL.
 

[Female Winslet]

1 minute ago, Klytyna said:

You are asking for more cash back than you pay in. You are suggesting that LL pay you more than $325 per month in stipend because you pay them $175 a month in tier?

No, I am not. That would be silly.

Your math assumes a linear relationship between dollars paid in and stipend received. I believe I have already covered that this is not necessarily a suggestion for a linear increase like that. It's a suggestion that stipend should increase as one pays more and more in tier. I have made no suggestion about how much stipend should increase with tier payments. I'm suggesting it makes sense to have *some* increase, but not specifying how much of an increase. 

[Klytyna]

2 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

Your math assumes a linear relationship between dollars paid in and stipend received.

 

2 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

I have made no suggestion about how much stipend should increase with tier payments

 

1 hour ago, Female Winslet said:

Even if it was linear--and I don't know whether it would be--you'd still never make enough to offset tier payments

You seem to have failed basic math...

5 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

If 1024m2 is L$300 a week, would it be a linear scale? L$19200 a week for a region?

That's more stipend than the tier needed to "earn" it, your claim that it wouldn't offset tier payments is fraudulent.

...

6 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

I'm suggesting it makes sense to have *some* increase

No, it really doesn't, you are asking for a bigger discount. That means less money for LL, that means that Madlands becomes cheaper, and Islands sales drop, which means LL make less money.

They make less money because...

 

1. They are giving you back MORE of the money you pay them.
2. The extra land sales generated by cheaper Madlands, means LESS sales of Islands which EARN THEM MORE MONEY, meaning a cut in their earnings.

It makes NO sense at all, from LL's perspective, for them to give you MORE FREE MONEY, because you are part of the MINORITY who live in the Madlands, especially when they have commited to a financial strategy of moving AWAY from Madlands based revenues, towards other fees that will reach a larger section of the SL population.

 

[Callum Meriman]

1 hour ago, Female Winslet said:

And more tier you'd have to pay on those regions.

L$19200/week is US$76.19 per region stipend. My existing regions would earn me L$96000/week or US$380 a week @ 252 sell.

$380*52/12 = US$1650 a month stipend.

This lets me get 8 free full regions, or 17 homesteads - gratis  - no extra tier.

I actually love this idea! Woohoo.

 

Edit: and of course, the fun part... 17 free homesteads on top of my existing would be L$441,600/week (US$1742) or US$7593 a month stipend

I can now have 79 homesteads... oops 79 is US$26082 ... Infinate money I can retire

(Smile Ms Winslet, I am just having fun, Linear won't work, we all know this!)

Edited December 12, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[Female Winslet]

Just now, Callum Meriman said:

L$19200/week is US$76.19 per region stipend. My existing regions would earn me L$96000/week or US$380 a week @ 252 sell.

$380*52/12 = US$1650 a month stipend.

This lets me get 8 free full regions, or 17 homesteads - gratis  - no extra tier.

I actually love this idea! Woohoo.

Yes, I did the math and figured out what it would be using a linear progression. I like the idea too, but it’s a bit silly. So it would have to be something other than linear. 

That said, I still think the idea of some increase makes sense for people paying more land. I’m just not sure of how much of an increase. 

[Callum Meriman]

2 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

I like the idea too, but it’s a bit silly. So it would have to be something other than linear.

I know, see my friendly kitten smile!

a small increase would flow on to creators - that would help them - but the lab have said that the sources and sinks are very finely balanced. It was by raising the Lindex fees that they could afford to give more land/drop teir.

Ebbe has said that such manipulation is something to be done incredibly carefully and over a long time. Small movements with a lot of planning, and over many years. There is a real danger of unintended consequences when playing with these levers.