Pamela Galli Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said: . I can only believe that one or more users reported the thread. I don’t. I think she was scanning the forum and noticed the thread title, which made it sound like something a mod should weigh in on.Lindens are pretty responsive to reports, but they don’t require one. Edited October 10, 2018 by Pamela Galli 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Pamela Galli said: I don’t. I think she was scanning the forum and noticed the thread title, which made it sound like something a mod should weigh in on.Lindens are pretty responsive to reports, but they don’t require one. You may be right, Pamela. Though, if LL now has a trigger finger, it may well be from a recent increase in reports in other threads. We’ve had more contentious debate under the same watchful eyes. If I’m right, clarification might make things worse. Be careful what you ask for? ;-). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @Pamela Galli Neither of us know, so we'll just have to disagree as to the most likely cause, Pam. I've seen it enough times where threads have been unjustifiably locked not long after one or more people made negative noises about it. The conclusion that one or more interfering busybodies report stuff simply because they really don't like it is so very easy to arrive at. It was a big part of the reason why one long-time user (BilliJo) stopped using this place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: If I’m right, clarification might make things worse. Be careful what you ask for? ;-). Kind of like, I’ll stick with a random and capricious God, I don’t want him to tell me my sins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said: @Pamela Galli Neither of us know, so we'll just have to disagree as to the most likely cause, Pam. I've seen it enough times where threads have been unjustifiably locked not long after one or more people made negative noises about it. The conclusion that one or more interfering busybodies report stuff simply because they really don't like it is so very easy to arrive at. It was a big part of the reason why one long-time user (BilliJo) stopped using this place. Well we all know that mods sometimes make decisions we don’t agree with or understand. And some people report things for reasons we don’t agree with. But the mods have said they can’t monitor every thread in every forum, and depend on us to call their attention to things that need it. Otherwise we end up with the kind of unmoderated viciousness that in the past plagued the forum, where a handful of trolls ruined every thread they entered, just for the attention, or vented unbridled rage on people. Edited October 10, 2018 by Pamela Galli 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 And of course, mods sometimes make decisions because they are not aware of the forum guidelines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionalein Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 *starts taking bets on how long this thread will last until it's locked* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 If it gets locked without the clarification that was asked for, then it would speak volumes, as they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 43 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said: Well we all know that mods sometimes make decisions we don’t agree with or understand. And some people report things for reasons we don’t agree with. But the mods have said they can’t monitor every thread in every forum, and depend on us to call their attention to things that need it. Otherwise we end up with the kind of unmoderated viciousness that in the past plagued the forum, where a handful of trolls ruined every thread they entered, just for the attention, or vented unbridled rage on people. Moderators are human too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said: If it gets locked without the clarification that was asked for, then it would speak volumes, as they say. If it does, it will probably be because some participants in the thread thumbed their noses at the mods by deliberately trying to derail. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said: If it does, it will probably be because some participants in the thread thumbed their noses at the mods by deliberately trying to derail. Or started some argument..I propose that the original question is both valid and of interest. I hope we get an answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: I'm starting to feel restricted at just the thought of being restricted. I better post this quick: 13 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: < she posts a religious picture and quote> An example of how one person repeatedly derails, in defiance of guidelines and mods. Edited October 10, 2018 by Pamela Galli 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 15 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said: Qft I had to lookup QFT. Technically, as an actual Avatar, everything Shri Anandamayi Ma ever said was Truth! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) I'd hate to see Religion banned as a topic of discussion, though I'd understand it if the discussion always tended to devolve into extreme hatred. My only experience with it being mentioned on this forum was the lovely connection I made with Love regarding it in the Sansar section, and then an interesting woman who had a more Chinese slant to her Buddhist beliefs and so we did comparisons between Hinduism, Yoga, and her philosophy. Although I can't really say I would call some of these 'religions' per say...they are more systems of growth toward something deeper (and some call this aspect of life 'God' while some do not). Anyway, would a moderator have to make the distinction between Spirituality and Religion? Would be confusing. Edited October 10, 2018 by Luna Bliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: I understand where this view comes from, and I have a lot of sympathy with it. Like LittleMe Jewels' observation that religion and politics "just always seem to devolve into nasty spats rather than any sort of actual discussion or debate," it's sensible, based on observation, and founded on a wholly laudable principle of trying to maintain civility and peace. That said . . . I can't say that I like the idea of preemptively banning certain kinds of discourse under the assumption, however well-tested, that it will necessarily devolve into nastiness. I didn't, for instance, think that the locked thread under discussion here was particularly nasty. The openly partisan bits of it were, for sure, predictable, dull, and unedifying. But nasty? Perhaps i have a thick skin, or have been inured to belligerent political discussions by other venues I'm on (and the old forums, which were much, MUCH harsher), but I didn't see anything there that warranted a shut down. I absolutely agree that bullying and outright trolling need to be controlled, but I saw neither of those, nor do I think they are necessary components of such discussions. Are posts that bellow one mindless political screed or another boring and even unpleasant? Sure, but I'm reminded of the oft-repeated refrain I've heard from people here and in-world about the offensive and objectionable parts of SL: if you don't like it, don't go there. Or don't read it: the same principle surely applies? I think it's dangerous to merely assume that discussions about religion and politics are going to be sh*tstorms. And I worry that a "ban" can be applied so broadly that all we will have left here WILL be threads about how awful (or wonderful) mesh is, or how to use Omega appliers. (Not that there is anything wrong with those.) A requote is in order! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 11 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said: In general, I think most derails are harmless. If the original topic has not been answered (if a question) or not met its normal end of discussion, then the derails are usually pretty short lived. However, I am a firm believer that politics and religion are not good for discussions on forums unless the forum is specifically set up for it. Those two topics just always seem to devolve into nasty spats rather than any sort of actual discussion or debate. If there is one sure way to ensure that a thread is going to go downhill in a hot mess, just start posting political or religious views. Wow how bad did it get here (remembering Pamela mentioned this too). I haven't seen it happen with religion as a topic here, but I have no doubt it could get very nasty judging from other forums. Reminds me of this woman who messaged me inworld saying she would not shop at my Christmas shop because some of my items were labeled 'Xmas' instead of 'Christmas'...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 6 hours ago, Phorumities said: Any time a person posts from a right wing viewpoint, it is denounced by a vocal minority of members AND some mods as trolling. Until that mindset is corrected, political posts in here are pointless and ban bait. If you could learn how to post your viewpoint respectfully you would not be reported so much. Until you learn the difference it would be best (so you don't get banned) not to mention politics at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 ..without politics and religion, doesn’t that make forums anarchistic bastions of secularism and agnosticism? It would make sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Reminds me of this woman who messaged me inworld saying she would not shop at my Christmas shop because some of my items were labeled 'Xmas' instead of 'Christmas'...lo At least it wasn’t XXXmas... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 6 hours ago, Phorumities said: Any time a person posts from a right wing viewpoint, it is denounced by a vocal minority of members AND some mods as trolling. Until that mindset is corrected, political posts in here are pointless and ban bait I’m sorry if this is your experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 32 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I'd hate to see Religion banned as a topic of discussion, though I'd understand it if the discussion always tended to devolve into extreme hatred. My only experience with it being mentioned on this forum was the lovely connection I made with Love regarding it in the Sansar section, and then an interesting woman who had a more Chinese slant to her Buddhist beliefs and so we did comparisons between Hinduism, Yoga, and her philosophy. Although I can't really say I would call some of these 'religions' per say...they are more systems of growth toward something deeper (and some call this aspect of life 'God' while some do not). Anyway, would a moderator have to make the distinction between Spirituality and Religion? Would be confusing. More derailing. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 17 hours ago, Pamela Galli said: You may also not post regarding subjects that do not relate to Second Life except in the General forum discussion board. (This is saying something different from “stick to the thread topic” , which we have also recently been reminded of.) Perhaps we will find out that going off-topic is ok, except when it results in reportable drama etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Perhaps we will find out that going off-topic is ok, except when it results in reportable drama etc. That would require a rewrite of the guidelines: Off Topic Content: Please keep your commentary relevant to the discussion and within the format that the forum, board or question and answer area require. (For example, in the Answers section, please follow the Q&A format of the discussion.) Content that is blatantly off topic is not permitted. You may also not post regarding subjects that do not relate to Second Life except in the General forum discussion board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pamela Galli said: 14 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: I'm starting to feel restricted at just the thought of being restricted. I better post this quick: Quote < she posts a religious picture and quote> An example of how one person repeatedly derails, in defiance of guidelines and mods. Well Pamela, I did consider this interpretation too, as it's been obvious to me for some time that you dislike me quite a bit, but I imagined for a second you developed a more sunny disposition for a moment or 2. However, your interpretation of WHY I posted that is wrong. I did not post what I did to "repeatedly derail", nor was I posting it in "defiance of guidelines and mods". The reason I brought it up is because I feel anxious that a topic I hold dear to me would be banned (as many here are now including 'religion' along with 'politics' as a possible reason for exclusion in this forum). The way I deal with the anxiety is often through a joke -- by being silly in saying I wanted to post something religious before we would be banned from it forever...just a bit of rebellion in a silly way...with no intent of derailing or defying guidelines or moderation. Edited October 10, 2018 by Luna Bliss 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: However, your interpretation of WHY I posted that is wrong. I did not post what I did to "repeatedly derail", Sadly, many consider posts even slightly off-topic to be derailing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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