Linden Clarification Please

[Pamela Galli]

In a recently closed thread in GD Kristen Linden said topics should be related to SL. A discussion we have had more than once, since what the Guidelines say is:

• Off Topic Content: Please keep your commentary relevant to the discussion and within the format that the forum, board or question and answer area require. (For example, in the Answers section, please follow the Q&A format of the discussion.) Content that is blatantly off topic is not permitted. You may also not post regarding subjects that do not relate to Second Life except in the General forum discussion board.

(This is saying something different from “stick to the thread topic” , which we have also recently been reminded of.) 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Pamela Galli

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I am not often around here, and so am in no way qualified to comment (although that's never stopped me before), but I was a bit puzzled by the lock too. It wasn't a particularly nasty thread (the mesh one is waaaaay nastier), and the discussion actually was, mostly, about discussing politics IN SL, or in the forums here.

I mean, it's no great loss: the thread wasn't exactly a jewel or anything. I'm just, like you, a bit puzzled about the justification. Unpredictable moderation can make posting anything that isn't purely anodyne difficult, after all.

[Pamela Galli]

I am not questioning the lock per se, since it’s up to mods to decide if they think something has gone over some line, but want clarification of the stated guideline re off topic subjects in GD. 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I think we're really on the same page. Self-evidently, it is up to the mods to decide what is deserving of a lock (or should be nuked). There's certainly no point in complaining: I think exactly once in my time here I got a mod to reverse her decision (and she sent me a very nice note too). But clarifications are important, because without a stable and consistent set of ground rules, it can be all but impossible to know whether something that isn't run-of-the-mill is going to be judged acceptable or not.

[Love Zhaoying]

Carefully preserved and curated “derail” threads help to build and strengthen our forum community.

[Callum Meriman]

I'm going to take Kristin's action as a clear "Politics discussions are bad". From my opinion, and I think a few of the internationals feel the same: American politics are toxic. 

Politics and religion should always be off topic.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[Scylla Rhiadra]

37 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Carefully preserved and curated “derail” threads help to build and strengthen our forum community.

I think this is exactly right, Love.

I've often thought that LL doesn't really "get" the forums. They've certainly never figured out how to leverage them, or other forms of social media, as a means of strengthening in-world communities. At one time, it was pretty clear that they saw this place primarily as a way of outsourcing help (we had to fight like hell to get a General Discussion section added to this one).

I know this is itself a bit of a derail, but I think that the life and soul of a forum is the sum total of the conversations here -- the history, the present personal and group dynamics, and the dynamic as the community slowly changes over time. Moderation is a really important part of that: a completely unmoderated forum is like the Wild West, or Twitter on a really really bad day. But careful and thoughtful moderation can actually nurture the community. And that CAN, or should, impact on our relationship with in-world as well.

[Love Zhaoying]

I suspect moderation occurs more often when threads/posts are reported. No report = no lock. My puhsyckickally informed opinion.

[Luna Bliss]

6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I suspect moderation occurs more often when threads/posts are reported. No report = no lock. My puhsyckickally informed opinion.

Yes I believe we've got an overly enthusiastic net nanny of late...

  * referring to a forum member here....not a Linden..

Edited October 9, 2018 by Luna Bliss

[Pamela Galli]

12 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

I'm going to take Kristin's action as a clear "Politics discussions are bad". From my opinion, and I think a few of the internationals feel the same: American politics are toxic. 

Politics and religion should always be off topic.

I am going to take her actions as a not so clear “everything but SL is off topic”. 

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes I believe we've got an overly enthusiastic net nanny of late...

  * referring to a forum member here....not a Linden..

Sometimes, you can either

- Make an edumacated guess that maybe it got reported by one of the last to post

- Actually see where a Linden was paged..

I’ve learned the hard way, I think someone reported some of my old “for fun” threads; you don’t find out WHICH post when you are disciplined, which can be confusing. Rules are Rules, so you suck it up and move on. 

[Luna Bliss]

[Callum Meriman]

5 word story game is off topic. What are you listening to is off topic. Various threads wishing people in the paths of hurricanes are off topic. The derail thread is off topic. Change one word thread is off topic. SLUniverse is off topic. It's nearly Christmas is off topic. So just watched a movie is off topic. Discord Group is off topic. Net Neutrality is off topic. He-Man vs Captain America is off topic. Revolving Sushi is off topic.

But none of these create a huge amount of moderation workload. They are innocuous.

A political thread on the other hand will cause a lot of angst as both sides report each other and the Governance team have to break from ARs to clean up the forum mess.

[Blush Bravin]

I hope the clarification leads to all threads in GD must relate to SL. I would fully embrace a ban on political and religious discussions as related to real world events as well.

Perhaps a new section, Off-Topic, for non SL related discussions. But honestly, I don't see why LL would want to moderate discussions of topics that have no bearing on SL.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Blush Bravin

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

you don’t find out WHICH post when you are disciplined, which can be confusing. Rules are Rules, so you suck it up and move on. 

I wasn't disciplined, but did notice when a certain person appeared who had been bragging about reporting threads recently then a moderator locked the thread not long after.  It made me wonder, did P get reported a lot?

I don't believe I've ever reported anyone or any thread -- that seems too controlling and net-nanny-ish...

[Pamela Galli]

I am fine with any policy LL wants, including forbidding politics and religion. All I want is a clarification, in writing. 

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Drunk elephant is..in the room.

11 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I hope the clarification leads to all threads in GD must relate to SL. I would fully embrace a ban on political and religious discussions as related to real world events as well.

Hmm. I support educational discussions. Many people have little knowledge of world religions besides the dominant one in their country.

[Callum Meriman]

I guess recently too, we have had 2 people trying their best to disrupt. The forums have been chaotic as a result.

One has a very long name that breaks the forum, and doesn't even log into SL.

One was hurting. I was very happy to summon a linden specifically (my first time ever) to stop him going too far.

[Blush Bravin]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Hmm. I support educational discussions. Many people have little knowledge of world religions besides the dominant one in their country.

There are many avenues for people to find information about world religions and to discuss the topic. From what I've experienced in the SL forums it's not a very good avenue for such discussions. 

[Blush Bravin]

3 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

One was hurting. I was very happy to summon a linden specifically (my first time ever) to stop him going too far.

I think it's our responsibility to act as you did in cases like this. It's part of showing empathy and taking steps to provide protection when needed. So thank you for stepping up.

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

I was very happy to summon a linden specifically (my first time ever) to stop him going too far.

That makes sense. Yes I suppose if something got extreme I would report them.

[Luna Bliss]

6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Hmm. I support educational discussions. Many people have little knowledge of world religions besides the dominant one in their country.

Yes I think religion should be allowed. I haven't seen so many bad results...not to the degree toxic American politics seems to elicit.

[Blush Bravin]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes I think religion should be allowed. I haven't seen so many bad results...not to the degree toxic American politics seems to elicit.

I have seen both you and Love taken to task about hijacking a thread with posts about your preferred religious practices. It didn't both me so much though I thought it was totally out of place. And religious debates can be every bit as toxic as any political discussion. 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes I think religion should be allowed. I haven't seen so many bad results...not to the degree toxic American politics seems to elicit.

Our one “issue” not long ago was a misunderstanding, I think we both agree on a lot. I do tend to overreact. Perhaps was drunk-posting Lion.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Blush Bravin said:

I have seen both you and Love taken to task about hijacking a thread with posts about your preferred religious practices. It didn't both me so much though I thought it was totally out of place. And religious debates can be every bit as toxic as any political discussion. 

Yep. We were “sharing” (my words). Not sure who complained about it.