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The New System Avatars are Gruesome


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Prokofy Neva wrote:

You clearly haven't tried these new avatars if you persist in making this statement.

You fail to realize that these are all mesh, which is one reason they don't have parts you can take out, they are welded together.

I'm specifically talking about the hair and tie on one avatar I'm actually wearing both of which cannot be removed unless you take the entire hat and hair off with it, etc.

Again, newbies shouldn't be forced to have this.

As for the female avatars, if they work better, that's great, but I'm talking about the males.

People have trouble accepting the truth, and the bearers of the message, they think they are ignorant, unsophisticated, "don't know how SL works" blah blah. I've been in Sl 11 years.

Call me when a) you have tried all the male avatars b) mixed and matched every single element of their outfits. Bye!

I just tested the avatar you're using. The tie can be removed separately. The jacket and pants are joined. The hat and hair are joined, which is standard operating procedure with most mesh hats to get away from the old, absurd "peach basket" hats that have to be larger than the hair they go on top of. "Take off" from the avatar menu doesn't work for mesh items and never has because they're attachments.

As far as your being in SL for 11 years? That's the reason you're having problems. You expect things to be done "the way it's always been done" which "makes sense." The 2010 vintage starter avatars from when I joined were complicated too - sweaters made up of multiple different pieces that had to be manipulated separately, etc. Sliders for skin tone didn't work because the skins used tattoos for skin tone instead of the old system paint. However, I was able to figure them out fairly quickly.

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Prok, you realise you titled your OP The New SYSTEM Avatars are Gruesome, right?  That's probably why everyone thought you were referring to the new SYSTEM avis, which are the most recent release (or newest, if you will), and not the older all mesh avatars.  So far as the hat/hair combo goes, yes, pretty much all hair stores in SL make their 'with hat hair' as one unit, generally not bothering to build the hair that would be hidden under the hat at all.  You will find separate hats around SL, but they just don't look as good when worn on top of mesh/sculpt/prim hair.

I see that you dislike mesh in general, but as it's optional I don't see that as a problem for you.  If you are regularly losing attachments during TPs it's more likely a rendering issue than that the items are coming off or relocating themselves. Perhaps a better graphics card would help, perhaps not.  Still, it's all part of the charm of SL, and doubtless the reason you have stayed here so long.

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

You clearly haven't tried these new avatars if you persist in making this statement.

You fail to realize that these are all mesh, which is one reason they don't have parts you can take out, they are welded together.

I'm specifically talking about the hair and tie on one avatar I'm actually wearing both of which cannot be removed unless you take the entire hat and hair off with it, etc.

Again, newbies shouldn't be forced to have this.

As for the female avatars, if they work better, that's great, but
I'm talking about the
males.

People have trouble accepting the truth, and the bearers of the message, they think they are ignorant, unsophisticated, "don't know how SL works" blah blah. I've been in Sl 11 years.

Call me when a)
you have tried all the
male avatars
b) mixed and matched every single element of their outfits. Bye!

Sorry, Prok, you talking about male avatars has as much credibility as me recommending types of tampon.

***Call me when you know who Gary Lightbody is; he looks exactly like the one you think is really ugly,

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One more thing, if you are loosing mesh attachement/clothing when you TP, check where they are attached. The default for all attachments is now the right hand, rather than the head like it was back in the day (yay no more box hats). Anyway, many rigged mesh creators forget about this. You can have as many attachment, up to the total avi limit, on one spot. With rigged mesh, it doesn't matter where you attach it, the item is still going to go to the right place. If you have too much attached to the same point, however, you'll start having stuff come off when you TP. Think of it as having a stack of dishes balanced your hand. As long as you are in one place, no problem. You start moving, you'll start loosing stuff.

I regularly look where the mesh attaches. If a top goes to my right hand, I take it off then use the right click/attach to then choose something like the right pec for the attachment. The item will still look fine, just a better attachment point. Skirts/pants go to a hip, etc. Since I started doing that, I've not had a problem with loosing stuff when I TP.

Prok, you've not been here in a while and there have been a lot of changes just in the past year or so. Nothing stays the same.

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@Bobbie Faulds

Why all the fandom? I've stated an obvious truth and I'm not an entitlement freak, I've weathered SL now for 11 long years. Have you? I don't need to be told to be grateful I don't have just Ruth, that's ridiculous because we've always had more than that, and we had a lot more customization capacity in fact in the old days, as odd as that may seem.

First, you fail to realize that if I write "new system avatars," I'm talking about, er, new systems avatars. The ones just announced. Not any other ones. These are far more inflexible than past ones as the Lindens pummel the public for the reality of Project Sansar, where we will have less flexibility (unless we have a lot more money). Pull on the outfit and shut up.

I wouldn't even be trying to take a hat off unless it was a ridiculous hat that is like no real hate that any real Indian or wannabee hipster even wears in real life, much less in SL where people have all kinds of outlandish fashions.

SL designers and and the fan base are a lot more supine about designs inflicted on them than is reasonable. Whatever possessed the women of Second Life to accept the ugly, crippling convection that their inner thighs have enough space between them to drive a truck through, with convex hips unlike any human form in history, more like the forms of insects? It's astoundingly bad taste and form and there isn't any element of it that is event "arty" but I see women in these tortured get-ups all over. It's sad.

Just because I haven't posted on the forums while busy in RL doesn't mean I am somehow "out of date" in SL. Do you realize I have a rentals business where I log on every day and see customers in the latest fashion?

Once again, these avatars are plug ugly, even scary, and not versatile. That's an important thing for Linden to realize if they want to retain newbies and keep even oldbies interested. They were doing a lot better several iterizations ago when I saw many many people opt for the business attire avatars or even the Vampire avatars simply because they were more normal looking and easy to use.

I'm also hearing rumours that these new mesh avatars make you crash -- and here I had put them on in the first place thinking if they were system and LL-designed I wouldn't crash. So I have now gone back to The Boy Next Door for several sets ago (!) and crashing is far less. Go figure.

@Dresden It's hardly a conspiracy to point out the obvious that you're proving resistant to, and there aren't any facts that have been refuted here. Several seem to have "suddenly" realized I mean the new mesh avatars and couldn't grasp that was what the conversation was about to start with. Several admit that you can't pry apart the hat and hair and other things and *themselves* have said you can't mix and match as much, and yet "I'm the problem." So facts be damned, indeed.

@Keli May you've put up an avatar that you evidently believe is "gorgeous". But it's not. It looks too photorealistic for Second Life. The eyes are spaced too far apart, and are out of proportion to the other elements of the face. I think a major problem for some people is that they've spent their time too long with their nose in the highest fashion blogs and highest fashion events and have failed to realize just how ugly they've gotten, not Second Life, and not Real Life, but the Twilight Zone.

Once again, if you've mixed and matched that's fine, but not everything does and other people in this thread have made the same point.

You fanz should make up your mind. You're saying they "shouldn't" be mix and match because they are merely starter or you're "proving" that they are so versatile with mixing and matching one should never shop again. Which is it?

And none of these points are my point, which is that these avatars are ugly, they're not versatile, and they are an insult to the population at large. And newbies are not stupid and not children, they're real people.

@Innula Zenovka I don't know how many times I have to repeat this and listen to lectures such as you are giving. I AM TALKING ABOUT THE NEW MESH AVATARS JUST POSTED ON THE FORUMS. Discussions about past avatars are irrelevant. The new ones are INDEED MESH.

@Theresa Tennyson funny that you claim it is SOP when in fact I have various outfits that in fact don't conform to this rule. And it sounds like it is a *mesh* rule and once again there is reluctant to admit anything bad about mesh or anything about its realities: ugly, hard to use, hard to modify, reducing the freedoms of Second Life.

@Pixplumb Flanagan you do realize that if I titled my post the new SYSTEM avatars it means just these brand-new Linden-made avatars, right? I never even mentioned older avatars! It's just that the "itch to set people straight" is so rampant and wild on these forums that some people never get unstuck from that mode.

I only dislike mesh in general, despite buying many mesh items including clothing, because it is ugly in many instances regardless of the "right settings" and because it is hard to edit. You can't adjust a jacket or boot; you have to disappear yourself in order to put something on, and look at yourself -- and other people as you land at infohubs and crowded events -- as bodyless people or headless people until they rez. It's the Valley of the Damned.

@SirLeighBastard I find it hilarious that I as a RL female with a male avatar have to endure a nasty crack like that when half the people in this thread are male tekkies dressed as female avatars, exempt from your offensive remarks. Since I've been dressing in male avatars since 2004, I think I do know something about the subject and you know where you can take it. And I'll remind you that if someone doesn't tell you their real-life gender on their Second Life profile, it is not fair game to out it, harass them about it, make vicious cracks about on the forums. I'm an exception to the general transgender rule of SL in that I'm happy to publish my RL name and gender, unlike any of you in this thread. So give it up. It's a lame and vicious form of intolerance to discredit people's ideas and it has no place in the modern world.

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Eh, you ramble so much and hate all that don't agree with you. You aren't even right when you continue to claim  "I don't know how many times I have to repeat this and listen to lectures such as you are giving. I AM TALKING ABOUT THE NEW MESH AVATARS JUST POSTED ON THE FORUMS. Discussions about past avatars are irrelevant. The new ones are INDEED MESH."

The only one with a hat that I can find when I go to Me - choose an avatar is under the "Classic" tab. The Dylan avatar. He does not look indian to me, but if you say so, I will accept it. These avatars are from 11.06.2015. 

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/New-Classic-Avatars-are-Now-Available-in-Second-Life/ba-p/2976888

In the terminology adapted by others than you, a mesh avatar is not an avatar who wear mesh clothes and hair. A mesh avatar is one whose body is made by rigged mesh that totally hide the default avatar and system clothes does not show on it. This is how merchants are supposed to advertise in the Marketplace. It is the terminology used by LL. https://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Buying-clothing-that-fits-your-avatar/ta-p/2570096

The quick way to test this is to go into appearance and edit the face. If you can change the eyes bigger, smaller, same with mouth, nose... then it is not a mesh head. If you can just click a system skin and see your body change to that skin, then it is not a mesh avatar. It is a classic avatar. No matter how much you stand on your porch and yell to the kids to "Git off mah property!".

All agree that the avatars you find under Me - choose an avatar - people are mesh. But you started this thread by complaining about all the starter avatars, some released in 2014, some a week ago, some mesh, some classic. You claim that it's not possible to switch skins between classic avatars... you are false and proved false, but you deny it. Your claim, and I quote: But it's not "some are mesh and some aren't" -- they are ALL mesh with this latest batch. No, the 2014 new avatars is all mesh. False claim from you again.

To try to back up, you then shift the complaints to: "But they are too realistic! My 1000 rental customers that I see daily look much better than that, you too-realistic fashion slaves! My customers are all original and not too realistic, but gorgeous!"

Eh, how can I even say something to that....

Just FYI: The most extreme "Invisible pony-riders" with a thigh gap is not LL created. It is residents who deliberately tweak default avatars and mesh avatars to achieve that look. You can't blame LL for peoples various taste.

 

 

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

 

@Theresa Tennyson funny that you claim it is SOP when in fact I have various outfits that in fact don't conform to this rule. And it sounds like it is a *mesh* rule and once again there is reluctant to admit anything bad about mesh or anything about its realities: ugly, hard to use, hard to modify, reducing the freedoms of Second Life.


I should have been more specific and said "Hats that are designed to be worn with long/full hair and that are intended for those not wanting to look like a clown wearing a haberdashed peach basket on their head."

My alt cousin is a hat-oriented young lady with long hair - she has many pre-mesh hairstyles with hats attached, and none of them are wearable without the hat even if it was unlinked.

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This is the avatar with hat and hair I can find. Dylan. He can be mixed as you wish. Original avatar, then another hairbase and hair, to the bottom lest yet a new hair and hairbase, to the bottom right added darker eyebrows and stubble. All over the original starter skin and shape.



He need new clothes. Bomber jacket, hoodie and jeans. Then a more drastic change. New skin and eyes. So a new style in clothes, beard and hair. It's not much left of the starter avatar but his shape and eyebrow shape. The shape fits nicely into newer mesh clothes that support males with at least 5 sizes, XS - XL. No tweaks needed. I had to wear M in one jacket and S in another, much as in RL where an American made jacket can be bigger than one made in China, even if the label say it's the same size.

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

 

@Innula Zenovka I don't know how many times I have to repeat this and listen to lectures such as you are giving. I AM TALKING ABOUT THE NEW MESH AVATARS JUST POSTED ON THE FORUMS. Discussions about past avatars are irrelevant. The new ones are INDEED MESH.

 

 The new avatars are system avatars wearing skins which can be changed from your inventory.   In this respect they are identical to my avatar who, as I said, has a shape I've been tweaking since 2007 and who wears skins applied from my inventory.    They are wearing mesh clothes, but so does my avatar.

In this respect they are very different from the rather older avatars which are designated as "mesh" in your library folder.   This is easily testable.

Take a look at, for example, Dylan -- the new male avatar whose hat is, as you complained, part of the same mesh object as is his hair.   This is what he looks like when all his mesh clothes and alpha layers are removed:



Now, let's take a look at one of the rather older avatars, introduced a couple of years ago, which are designated as "mesh" in the library folder.   I chose "Johnny" for this example.  



Note that Johnny is wearing an item called "Johnny -- body", while there is no corresponding item for Dylan.

Here is what Johnny looks like when you remove all his attachments, including his mesh body.



He's the default male system shape and skin -- the male version of Ruth, I guess.   

Johnny's appearance depends on his wearing the mesh item "Johnny -- body," and while he's wearing it he can't wear system clothes at all, or change his hair or skin or anything.

Dylan, in contrast, looks the same (apart from his hair) with or without his other attachments, same as my avatar does and (I imagine) does yours.   He go into any store in SL or the marketplace and wear any clothes, system or mesh, he likes, and change his skin and edit his shape same as you and I have always done.

I don't see any difference between these latest avatars, as opposed to their outfits,  and the ones available when I started back in 2007 (other than that they look a lot better) apart from the fact they aren't wearing system hair.  

They are wearing mesh clothes and hair, certainly, but that doesn't make them mesh avatars in the sense that most people understand the term, any more than would your avatar turn into a "mesh avatar" if you bought a one-piece mesh suit and wore it.

 

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So we are all on the same page, let's define terms..

Default avi/System avi-A basic shape provided by LL that you can go into edit shape and it responds to all the sliders. Textures for clothing and skin are applied directly to it when you wear...You use add if you want to layer item, like a shirt, then add a sweater that's on the shirt layer then wear a jacket, for instance.

System Clothes-These are the older clothing type. You have the nderwear layer that uses icons that look like tidy whities/undershirt, Shirt, represented by a shirt and goes to the waist of the avi. Pants, represented by an icon of a pair of pants. Jacket layer that looks like a jacket that covers both the upper torso as well as lower. Skirt...that's obvious. The templates for these layers are making a comback as the basis for applier used on full mesh bodies (more about that later).

Mesh clothes/hair- These are attachments utilize an outside program and are imported in. They use a standard sizing determined by major designers, much like the sewing pattern designers got together in RL and standardized their patterns so you didn't have an "8" in Butterick that was a "6" in Vogue patterns.

Mesh avi-These are additions...think of putting on mesh jumpsuit over the default avi. If it's fitted mesh, which most are, they will respond to the same slider that you use on your default avi so are customizable to a point. They can differ by creator, depending on the shape of the chest, butt and legs. You can wear mesh clothing on them, though you will have to make some adjusments. Mesh avis don't include a mesh head. Those are purchased separately. For skins, you need an applier. This is a scripted way of adding a texture, same way you do to mesh clothing. Fortunately, all but a couple of holdouts work with the universal Omega system. Appliers are sold separately from skins as you are purchasing a skin for your avi. Some are free, some provide all the colors they make with your purchase, some you have to purchase each tone separately. Just depends on the maker.

LL tried making mesh avis but there were major problems. You could only wear the clothing it came with. There was no mechanism to change the skin. They were head to toe covers so included the head...Those were gruesome. They came with no instructions so I know SL lost a lot of potential players because of their frustration.

With the newest, the skin doesn't look like flat paint and you can wear any clothes you like. As I stated before, many hair makers no longer provide hats separate from hair when they are working with mesh to avoid the hair cutting through the hat.

Hope this littlie "dictionary" helps us all get on the same page when referring to avis in this discussion.

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@Bobbie thanks for that tutorial it's helpful, but it doesn't change the basics here that emerge even from your post and Innula's pictures: THESE NEWS ONES are gruesome TOO. They look like the Children of the Damned. There are certain angles where their eyes look ghoulish. They are indeed hard to work with and here's the icing on the cake:

 

they crash your browser.

 

Several people tipped me off to the fact that these new mesh avatars may be what's constantly crashing my browser when I haven't had that kind of plague in years. It is not on my side as I've checked everything and have a clean install of SL. Finally, I took off "Dylan". From that moment on, I haven't crashed.

Yes, I know, "Works On My Machine," is your answer -- but didn't on mine and some others. And they are hideous and I abandoned using them -- which, BTW, I had only started to do because of another clothing problem persisting still which Lindens have tried to fix in my inventory.

It's always instructive to see the inability of people to tolerate the slightest criticism on the forums. Trigger alert!

 

"then another hair base and..."

I'm chuckling because you still don't get it. Mix and match means mix and match WITHIN the set of that avatars, if you are new, and don't have $3000 for a new hair or skin. Not put on a new expensive hair you buy outside of the system.

So let me try to break it down ONCE AGAIN: If you take off Dylan's hat, his hair goes away with it! And you don't have OTHER hair from another avatar IN THAT SERIES or somewhere else that fits. Surely you'll be able to see your own pictures here also illustrate how creepy they all are.

 

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

 

So let me try to break it down ONCE AGAIN: If you take off Dylan's hat, his hair goes away with it! And you don't have OTHER hair from another avatar IN THAT SERIES or somewhere else that fits. Surely you'll be able to see your own pictures here also illustrate how creepy they all are.

 



I think you will find it is, in fact, very possible to switch skins and hairs around in the new set.

It would also be very possible for Dylan to head off to Free Dove or one of the many other places giving out free skins and hairs to new residents and choose something there, just as I did back in 2007 when I started.

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First of all, most hats are sold with the hair attached all in one piece. I've bought a few hairs that way as it is a real pain in the butt trying to add a hat on top of a hair and head and make it fit right. So you're never going to get that hair on without the hat because they are one whole piece.

Second, if you scroll down to the bottom of your inventory you'll see a folder called Library. There you will find the other default avatars and everything they are wearing. You can use one of the hairs from them. 

Finally, if you think the default avatars you get now are ugly, you should have seen them a few years ago when I started playing. They were way worse than the newer ones. Everyone has to start with the same avatars. You are not special and got an extra ugly one just for you (smiles). It's just the way it is there's nothing you can do about it. You just need to do what everyone else has done and suck it up and get to work. It took me 3 months before I was satisfied enough to adventure out into nightclubs and stuff. It was a lot of hard work, but it was fun too. 

If you need any help I'd be happy to help you find decent, cheap, and or free stuff that looks good. Send me an IM inworld.

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  • 11 months later...

"Whatever possessed the women of Second Life to accept the ugly, crippling convection that their inner thighs have enough space between them to drive a truck through, with convex hips unlike any human form in history, more like the forms of insects? It's astoundingly bad taste and form and there isn't any element of it that is event "arty" but I see women in these tortured get-ups all over. It's sad."

 

I just coudn't agree more.

 

I hate that gap, i hate the invisible pony riders, i just hate them with all my heart.

 

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  • 1 month later...
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