Neighboring Sim on Mainland rezzing Prim on Parcel - How to Stop?

[Darrius Gothly]

One of my clients is having a horrible problem with a neighboring Sim/Parcel on Mainland. The client owns all but a single 1024 sqm parcel on their Mainland Sim. Next to them is another Sim with a Parcel adjoining theirs. Approximately every two minutes a Prim owned by one of the group members that owns the adjoining parcel will appear on my client's Object List (under the About Land Objects info window).

I visited there today and wrote a simple LSL script to detect when the prim appears, and sure enough it does cycle on and off. They made me an Owner of the Land Group and I made sure their Land Options were set to prevent Object Entry and Object Creation for anyone except Group Members. I also double checked and the owner of the intruding prim is NOT a member of their group.

I have never seen a situation where a prim can be rezzed against Land Options or moved onto a Sim/Parcel against Land Options ... but sure enough it is happening. The client has IM'd the prim owner and they are completely clueless as to what it might be. Because it only lasts a few seconds, it is not possible to identify it before it vanishes. I also suspect it is extremely small and possibly invisible too .. but that's just a theory.

If anyone has experienced this problem as well and might have some information or ideas, please reply on this thread or send me an IM either in-world or here on the Community Forums. Many thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

[gefeit Dufaux]

The situation sounds like an temporary object or particle. But particle is texture, that can't on object list. 

so, it's  possible a child object - temporary object which owned by root prim that rezeed  on their land. You can demand they remove the object, or report abuse to LL.

[Darrius Gothly]

 

---

gefeit Dufaux wrote:

The situation sounds like

 

an temporary object or particle. But particle is texture, that can't on object list. 

so, it's  possible a child object - temporary object which owned by root prim that rezeed  on their land. You can demand they remove the object, or report abuse to LL.

---

 

Thank you for the suggestion gefeit. The client has spoken with the owner of the invading object, but they are not able to tell what it might be either. To their knowledge they have nothing that would do that. The client has also reported the abuse AND filed support tickets ... again with no reply or "fix" from LL. That is why they contacted me, in hopes I might be able to find the object or a way to block it.

On a Private Island Estate, the Land Manager would be able to identify the object and remove it. But since this is Mainland, the "Land Manager" is Linden Lab and so far they have ignored all requests for help.

[Phil Deakins]

It sounds like a non-temporary prim or a temporary prim that took a while to get there. Both can and do move onto neighboring land against the land settings. Until I abandoned 3/4 of the sim I'm in, the sim next to me was for combat (it's now for sale ). Non-temp prims would often come across from the combat stuff, and stay. The way of dealing with them was to set auto-return to 1 minute. Between me abandoning that side of the sim, and the combat sim going up for sale, some fired objects moved onto the abandoned land, and they are still there there (the auto-return was automatically turned off when I abandoned the land).

If your prim is temporary, it would stay for around a minute and not just a few seconds, unless it takes most of the minute to move from its source to the parcel.

You could try opening the About Land box and clicking on the owner when the prim shows, and quickly clicking the Show button. That will highlight it even if it's tiny and transparent. Of course, if the parcel is large, it could take some time to spot it but, with patience, you should eventually be able to find it. However, it doesn't sound like finding the prim will do any good. It's the source that needs to be found.

[Darrius Gothly]

 

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

You could try opening the About Land box and clicking on the owner when the prim shows, and quickly clicking the Show button. That will highlight it even if it's tiny and transparent. Of course, if the parcel is large, it could take some time to spot it but, with patience, you should eventually be able to find it. However, it doesn't sound like finding the prim will do any good. It's the source that needs to be found.

---

 

I suggested this too, but there are two problems with this approach:

 

1. The prim only stays about one minute at most even though auto-return is not turned on.
2. They have all but 1024 sqm of the full Sim, so finding a micro-prim on a nearly full sim from ground to 4096m ... umm .. OWWWCH!!

I had hoped that when they "Return" it (via the Objects tab of About Land) that the Prim Owner would get a message and thus know what it was ... but apparently it vanishes too fast for the Return to actually take. I think we're back to hoping a Linden can come by and find/remove it .. whatever it is.

 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

I have the same problem on one of my ML parcels...a mystery prim appears, I can never find it, then it goes away. I suspect it's up in the air somewhere and that's why I'm having trouble locating it. 

The object, when it shows up in the Object List, always has the same "Most Recent" date, which was a couple of months ago. Autoreturn does not always work on it for some reason, either. It's a real mystery!

[Storm Clarence]

 

---

Darrius Gothly wrote:

<snip>

I visited there today and wrote a simple LSL script to detect when the prim appears, and sure enough it does cycle on and off. They made me an Owner of the Land Group and I made sure their Land Options were set to prevent Object Entry and Object Creation for anyone except Group Members. I also double checked and the owner of the intruding prim is NOT a member of their group.

<snip

---

 

I don't have an answer to your question, but I would like to ask why someone would need to be made "owner of land group" to turn off object entry and creation for anyone except group members.  It is my understanding the About Land>Objects tab satisfies this task.  The group has nothing to do with it in the context you are stating.  The group owner can only control *his* group and members - not a different group.

I. personally, would NEVER want the responsibility of 'Owner' of someone else's group.  I would not ask for it, and I would not accept the responsibility if it was offered.  Why would anybody? 

 

[Phil Deakins]

In your OP you said that is only lasts a few seconds, which led to part of my post. But, since it lasts about a minute, it's almost certainly a temporary prim. It does sound like an object shooting a prim periodically. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't sound like a real problem - the prim can't be seen and the additional 1 to the prim count is irrelevant.

I wonder how far away the white highlight can be seen when clicking the "Show" button after selecting a name in the objects list. If it can be seen from a fair distance, trying to spot it that way isn't totally out of the question even on a whole sim.

[Darrius Gothly]

 

---

Storm Clarence wrote:

I don't have an answer to your question, but I would like to ask why someone would need to be made "owner of land group" to turn off object entry and creation for anyone except group members.  It is my understanding the About Land>Objects tab satisfies this task.  The group has nothing to do with it in the context you are stating.  The group owner can only control *his* group and members - not a different group.

I. personally, would NEVER want the responsibility of 'Owner' of someone else's group.  I would not ask for it, and I would not accept the responsibility if it was offered.  Why would anybody? 

 

---

 

I'm going to assume you are asking that question in earnest  *edited for harassment*

In order to verify and, if necessary, fix the About Land > Objects and Options settings, you must be an Owner of the Land Group or be given Parcel Powers through the Group Management "Members and Roles" dialogs. Many years of Tech Support experience have taught me one basic rule ... "Trust, but verify" (with apologies to RR).

My client has complete trust in me owing to our long-standing beneficial relationship. I asked for the Owner role, accepted it when sent .. did my "thang" and then exited that role.

*edited for harassment*

[Darrius Gothly]

 

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

In your OP you said that is only lasts a few seconds, which led to part of my post. But, since it lasts about a minute, it's almost certainly a temporary prim. It does sound like an object shooting a prim periodically. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't sound like a real problem - the prim can't be seen and the additional 1 to the prim count is irrelevant.

I wonder how far away the white highlight can be seen when clicking the "Show" button after selecting a name in the objects list. If it can be seen from a fair distance, trying to spot it that way isn't totally out of the question even on a whole sim.

---

 

Yup, my bad. I should have stated the more accurate "about a minute" in the OP. I've tried to locate a lost object before and even in Midnight, the white outline cannot be seen from that far away if the object is small. Considering how much space is contained in their Parcel (224 x 224 x 4096 = 205,520,896 cubic meters), I have this sneaking suspicion it would take something close to forever. (Especially considering its short lifetime and the probability that it might not be selected and "Shown" each and every time it appeared.)

I'm going to do some digging in the LSL Wiki, but it also runs in my mind that Temp Rez prims don't count against Parcel Prim Counts as reported by the llGetParcelPrimOwners call I was using. I know they are not counted by the llGetParcelPrimCount call unless you use the PARCEL_COUNT_TEMP category parameter.

What I do not know (and perhaps someone else does) is what happens when you Return a TempRez prim? If a TempRez simply vanishes and doesn't get returned to the Prim Owner's Lost and Found folder then that would explain why the owner of these ghost prims isn't seeing them show up.

Hmmm ... more layers peeled back, more layers discovered underneath. 8^)

[Eli Schlegal]

Why does it even matter? One prim on a parcel  that is almost a whole sim... and you can't even see it. How is it a "horrible problem"?

You said you filed abuse reports? How is that abuse?

[Darrius Gothly]

 

---

Eli Schlegal wrote:

Why does it even matter? One prim on a parcel  that is almost a whole sim... and you can't even see it. How is it a "horrible problem"?

You said you filed abuse reports? How is that abuse?

---

 

In all truth .. it doesn't "matter" .. but it is one of those "pebble in your shoe" issues that while insignificant still bugs you. It makes you feel powerless and incapable of controlling your own parcel.

And no, I didn't file an AR. My client did AFTER they spoke with the prim owner, changed parcel settings, tried to find it, and filed a support ticket to have a Linden fix it. Call it "response to the annoying and impossible".

I tried to help because I can understand the sheer frustration of having stuff appear and disappear without being able to stop or even identify it. There is also the concern that that single prim could be acting as a spy prim, eavesdropping on conversations .. or doing who knows what.

Yeah, it's a mosquito buzzing in the night. But if it bites you and it turns out it was carrying something you didn't want to catch ... oooh boy .. that's gonna suck.

[Storm Clarence]

 

---

Darrius Gothly wrote:

---

Storm Clarence wrote:

I don't have an answer to your question, but I would like to ask why someone would need to be made "owner of land group" to turn off object entry and creation for anyone except group members.  It is my understanding the About Land>Objects tab satisfies this task.  The group has nothing to do with it in the context you are stating.  The group owner can only control *his* group and members - not a different group.

I. personally, would NEVER want the responsibility of 'Owner' of someone else's group.  I would not ask for it, and I would not accept the responsibility if it was offered.  Why would anybody? 

 

---

 

I'm going to assume you are asking that question in earnest .*edited for harassment*

In order to verify and, if necessary, fix the About Land > Objects and Options settings, you must be an Owner of the Land Group or be given Parcel Powers through the Group Management "Members and Roles" dialogs. Many years of Tech Support experience have taught me one basic rule ... "Trust, but verify" (with apologies to RR).

My client has complete trust in me owing to our long-standing beneficial relationship. I asked for the Owner role, accepted it when sent .. did my "thang" and then exited that role.

*edited for harassment*

---

 

I am only snarky with spammers.  I am sorry you put yourself in the position to feel my wrath.

I asked you a straight question in this thread and you are still unable to answer.  Trust has nothing to do with the question; there is no need to be given ownership privilege to select a tab and click on a check box.  Your methodologies are flawed.  

 

[Darrius Gothly]

@Storm ...

*gentle smile of patient tolerance*

[Storm Clarence]

I do not have patience for harassment and/or ignorance.  Let's debate the content of your OP - not your opinion of me which you seem to want to do.

Is it easier to discuss *me* than to discuss the merits of your methodology?  I would really like to know how often in SL an owner of a parcel cedes his ownership to a vendor - especially when the 'alternatives' are so much easier and safer?

Let's discuss; it is contained within your OP.

[Storm Clarence]

 

---

Storm Clarence wrote:

I do not have patience for harassment and/or ignorance.  Let's debate the content of your OP - not your opinion of me which you seem to want to do.

Is it easier to discuss *me* than to discuss the merits of your methodology?  I would really like to know how often in SL an owner of a parcel cedes his ownership to a vendor - especially when the 'alternatives' are so much easier and safer?

Let's discuss; it is contained within your OP.

---

If you choose not to debate this here I will ask the same question in SLA.  I am really curious as to how often this happens in SL.

 

[Darrius Gothly]

 

---

Storm Clarence wrote:

If you choose not to debate this here I will ask the same question in SLA.  I am really curious as to how often this happens in SL. 

---

As I stated in my first reply to you .. repeated here:

---

Darrius Gothly wrote:

In order to verify and, if necessary, fix the About Land > Objects and Options settings, you must be an Owner of the Land Group or be given Parcel Powers through the Group Management "Members and Roles" dialogs. Many years of Tech Support experience have taught me one basic rule ... "Trust, but verify" (with apologies to RR).

---

 

[Storm Clarence]

 

---

Darrius Gothly wrote:

As I stated in my first reply to you .. repeated here:

---

Darrius Gothly wrote:

In order to verify and, if necessary, fix the About Land > Objects and Options settings, you must be an Owner of the Land Group or be given Parcel Powers through the Group Management "Members and Roles" dialogs. Many years of Tech Support experience have taught me one basic rule ... "Trust, but verify" (with apologies to RR).

---

 

---

 

I understand what you wrote - it is precisely that of which I am questioning.  

You mentioned Tech Support.  I manage 127 cpu's - only me and my deceased mother has 'root' privilege. But, that is neither here nor there.   

I still can not get my head around why (in business) anybody should allow anybody else to 'own' what they 'own' if even for a moment; and especially in SL.  I would not chose to make this practice part of my business model.  But, that is me. 

[Darrius Gothly]

 

---

Storm Clarence wrote:

I understand what you wrote - it is precisely that of which I am questioning.  

You mentioned Tech Support.  I manage 127 cpu's - only me and my deceased mother has 'root' privilege. But, that is neither here nor there.   

I still can not get my head around why (in business) anybody should allow anybody else to 'own' what they 'own' if even for a moment; and especially in SL.  I would not chose to make this practice part of my business model.  But, that is me. 

---

 

My method was expeditious, effective and devoid of risk. I accomplished the goal in short order and did not waste a lot of time coaching the client thru the intricacies of creating a new role, assigning that role with sufficient abilities to make the necessary checks or adjustments, inviting me into that role and then deleting that role once completed. The method I chose allowed them to perform one simple task, and did not push them up against the wall of further frustration.

If you know of a better, faster and less confusing method, by all means explain it please.

[Darrius Gothly]

 

---

Storm Clarence wrote:

I still can not get my head around why (in business) anybody should allow anybody else to 'own' what they 'own' if even for a moment; and especially in SL.  I would not chose to make this practice part of my business model.  But, that is me. 

---

 

Do you own a car? Have you ever taken your car in for service? Did you leave the keys and registration with the shop during that time?

[Storm Clarence]

 

---

Darrius Gothly wrote:

 

---

Storm Clarence wrote:

I still can not get my head around why (in business) anybody should allow anybody else to 'own' what they 'own' if even for a moment; and especially in SL.  I would not chose to make this practice part of my business model.  But, that is me. 

---

 

Do you own a car? Have you ever taken your car in for service? Did you leave the keys and registration with the shop during that time?

---

 

Yes, but never do I leave the 'title'.  

*'title' in the States is the ONLY document of ownership.  

Thank you for proving my point. 

 

ETA My household help have keys to my home.  They do not own my home, either.  They can steal from me, but they can not sleep in my bed. 

[Darrius Gothly]

 

---

Storm Clarence wrote:

Yes, but never do I leave the 'title'.  

*'title' in the States is the ONLY document of ownership.  

Thank you for proving my point. 

---

 

Keys .. registration .. but no title? Oh darn. They have possession and complete power to use or abuse your car as they see fit. When it comes time to assign liability, as the owner that would be yours.

Now .. can we please get back to the topic of this thread? Do you have a solution for the problem stated in the OP?

[Storm Clarence]

 

---

Darrius Gothly wrote:

 

---

Storm Clarence wrote:

Yes, but never do I leave the 'title'.  

*'title' in the States is the ONLY document of ownership.  

Thank you for proving my point. 

---

 

Keys .. registration .. but no title? Oh darn. They have possession and complete power to use or abuse your car as they see fit. When it comes time to assign liability, as the owner that would be yours.

Now .. can we please get back to the topic of this thread? Do you have a solution for the problem stated in the OP?

---

 

Not any of my responses to this thread was 'off topic.'

My first response to this OP was that I had no solution.  

I was questioning the application of your methodology.  I got my answer.   

[Darrius Gothly]

ROFLMAO!!

[Elijah Jumanya]

I own about half of a mainland parcel and shortly after I bought it we kept having a single prim show up, we would auto return it and it would be back with in seconds.  I was able to figure out who made the prim and found out it was a spy prim.  When we IM'd the creator and told her that we would be pursuing legal action she immediately removed the item and it never came back.