Dillon Levenque Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Well, on the subject of counterfeit, who are you to be asking me this question?: "Seriously, Dillon (if that is your real name!)?" Hmmph. At least it's the same name I had the first time we crossed paths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: your perception makes me what I seem to you. Your perception also makes you what you seem to you. Yeah, but that just makes me one more reader and interpreter of myself. What if you're a better reader than I am, and I've just completely missed the important bits of the story? What's a better reader? Wouldn't that depend on your goals (if you knew them)? We've probably all had the experience of knowing someone who we thought read us better than we did, but didn't think they could read us at all. At any moment, I could make a random observation about you that gives you insight. Don't give me credit for that. Yeah. Actually, I hate that. It makes me feel vulnerable and a bit naked. I think this is why therapists often say "just talking about things helps". I enjoy doing that. Which may be one of the reasons people are reluctant to go out for a coffee with me sometimes . . . If everybody reads you differently than you read yourself, you might have to allow for the possibility you're illiterate. Now the question is, who are you unable to read, yourself or them? But I can "read" chapters that they can't see! I don't think that that necessarily qualifies me as a better reader of myself -- but it does help explain why there may be a big difference. ... waits for your naked self to pick up your coffee cup. Well, couldn't I argue that I can read chapters (of you) that you can't see? All those people who think I'm intimidating must be reading something I write without knowing, and cannot read. Yes, you know you keep some secrets. You also don't know you reveal others. That's your inner tiger, you little monkey! (I can't lay claim to that analogy, it's popular in "free-will" discussion circles.) Before the chapter analogy confuses us further, let's just get back to where we've already agreed that we have different perspectives. None of us sees ourselves as others do. I don't notice how my body language changes when I'm in a conversation with someone who's making me uncomfortable. And the person who's making me so may not be consciously noticing it either, but gets the feeling she's on to something because some subconscious process is reading me like a book. In another reply to me, you said you were fascinated by my "binary" self. You're self-reflective. We've seen you do it, right here in this thread. You just haven't put a name on that self-reflection. I've named mine Snugs, and I have fun with it. Snugs is also a way to practice the defensive art of self deprecation. A year or two ago, I had a long discussion with Carole Franizzi, who thought I was daft because I said we can access our subconscious if we try. It's a tenuous connection, but many people make it. Meditation is a scheduled way to do it, but I hate scheduled activities, so I try to make my mindfulness run 24/7. There isn't a day goes by that I don't catch my subconscious making an outright mistake, drawing a curious conclusion, or revealing biases and bigotry I'd rather not own. ... waits for you to set down your coffee cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 irihapeti wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: In terms of what I want, I suppose what I aim for is being "more like" my preconceived notion of what I am, or want to be. Sometimes, I think, I've succeeded at that, and sometimes failed miserably (and been left really embarrassed as a result). Interestingly, the way I've measured my success at being a better "me" is by the way others have responded to that presentation. is way deep this sooo you can be me if you like lots of people want to me. Like heaps of them. They say it all the time. Gosh!! why I cant i just be like you. All the time is bc I am pretty. Like way pretty. way way. I cant help it. I was just born that way. So is not my fault only people who dont want to be like me are them who just jealous. Is not their fault either that. They was just born like that as well sometimes some people be mean to me and say I am shallow. But I just smile back at them bc they just jealous and like I say already is not their fault bc they was born like that. So I am be generous to them less blessed and less pretty than me and not think bad of them (: is not deep. is bc your eyes are too low. i see this lots, people like you. is not shallow, this. is flat. flat people don't like deep. flat people hate deep, bc gets their hair wet. then in their too low eyes. vicious circle that. so get a little stool, like one step. easy to climb, not tippy. and you sit on it and you see more. and is not so deep, this more. (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Dillon Levenque wrote: Well, on the subject of counterfeit, who are you to be asking me this question?: "Seriously, Dillon (if that is your real name!)?" Hmmph. At least it's the same name I had the first time we crossed paths. LOL Well, it was sort of ironic . . . (PS. To partially answer, also, a question Maddy once asked me, try rearrange the letters in my first name, and you'll come close to something recognizable. Maybe. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: Dillon Levenque wrote: Well, on the subject of counterfeit, who are you to be asking me this question?: "Seriously, Dillon (if that is your real name!)?" Hmmph. At least it's the same name I had the first time we crossed paths. LOL Well, it was sort of ironic . . . (PS. To partially answer, also, a question Maddy once asked me, try rearrange the letters in my first name, and you'll come close to something recognizable. Maybe. ) Yak Las! One of the reasons people are reluctant to go out for a coffee with you sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Madelaine McMasters wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Dillon Levenque wrote: Well, on the subject of counterfeit, who are you to be asking me this question?: "Seriously, Dillon (if that is your real name!)?" Hmmph. At least it's the same name I had the first time we crossed paths. LOL Well, it was sort of ironic . . . (PS. To partially answer, also, a question Maddy once asked me, try rearrange the letters in my first name, and you'll come close to something recognizable. Maybe. ) Yak Las! One of the reasons people are reluctant to go out for a coffee with you sometimes. *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Madelaine McMasters wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: your perception makes me what I seem to you. Your perception also makes you what you seem to you. Yeah, but that just makes me one more reader and interpreter of myself. What if you're a better reader than I am, and I've just completely missed the important bits of the story? What's a better reader? Wouldn't that depend on your goals (if you knew them)? We've probably all had the experience of knowing someone who we thought read us better than we did, but didn't think they could read us at all. At any moment, I could make a random observation about you that gives you insight. Don't give me credit for that. Yeah. Actually, I hate that. It makes me feel vulnerable and a bit naked. I think this is why therapists often say "just talking about things helps". I enjoy doing that. Which may be one of the reasons people are reluctant to go out for a coffee with me sometimes . . . If everybody reads you differently than you read yourself, you might have to allow for the possibility you're illiterate. Now the question is, who are you unable to read, yourself or them? But I can "read" chapters that they can't see! I don't think that that necessarily qualifies me as a better reader of myself -- but it does help explain why there may be a big difference. ... waits for your naked self to pick up your coffee cup. Well, couldn't I argue that I can read chapters (of you) that you can't see? All those people who think I'm intimidating must be reading something I write without knowing, and cannot read. Yes, you know you keep some secrets. You also don't know you reveal others. That's your inner tiger, you little monkey! (I can't lay claim to that analogy, it's popular in "free-will" discussion circles.) Before the chapter analogy confuses us further, let's just get back to where we've already agreed that we have different perspectives. None of us sees ourselves as others do. I don't notice how my body language changes when I'm in a conversation with someone who's making me uncomfortable. And the person who's making me so may not be consciously noticing it either, but gets the feeling she's on to something because some subconscious process is reading me like a book. In another reply to me, you said you were fascinated by my "binary" self. You're self-reflective. We've seen you do it, right here in this thread. You just haven't put a name on that self-reflection. I've named mine Snugs, and I have fun with it. Snugs is also a way to practice the defensive art of self deprecation. A year or two ago, I had a long discussion with Carole Franizzi, who thought I was daft because I said we can access our subconscious if we try. It's a tenuous connection, but many people make it. Meditation is a scheduled way to do it, but I hate scheduled activities, so I try to make my mindfulness run 24/7. There isn't a day goes by that I don't catch my subconscious making an outright mistake, drawing a curious conclusion, or revealing biases and bigotry I'd rather not own. ... waits for you to set down your coffee cup. I'm not trained in psychology or psychiatry, and find Freud, Jung, and Lacan a bit annoying when I am forced to encounter them, so I'm always a bit uncomfortable, maybe, with what often seem to me reductive divisions like id, ego, and superego, and maybe even "unconscious." I suppose I sort of think of the latter not as a distinct thing only accessible by crossing a certain boundaryline, like the Lethe or the Acheron, but rather interpenetrating in sometimes surprising ways with my conscious self. And I think I can "read" evidence of what it's about in my own actions, through self-reflection and awareness. I have a sort of analogue, maybe, to Snugs. You called it me being "cute" in my feed, and perhaps it is, but I tend to think of it as my "fluffy" self. It's not exactly my airheaded alter-ego, but it is, I think, "designed" (at some level) to be both more approachable, and maybe even "likable" than what I think of as my more "normal" self. And it is self-deprecating, in a way that sometimes actually disturbs me. I use it, maybe, a bit here in this thread. I think I may have created it, some time ago, in response to the perception from others that I was sometimes over-earnest or even (although I hate the term) "shrill." It may also be gendered. I have a friend who has a young daughter, about 17 or so. She's a really bright and articulate young woman, and you can hear her intelligence when you speak to her very clearly. Except when she talks to a certain kind of male, of a more mature age and with some authority. Then, without necessarily becoming dumb, she employs a different, rather "cute" and slightly coying "girlish" voice. I was, at one time, going to speak to her about this -- and then realized that I do the same thing, to a degree, myself, when I become "fluffy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canoro Philipp Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 we all give a little of ourselves in the way we present ourselves, because all we can do is to reflect our memories, we give echoes of our culture and forms of behaviour we have come to appreciate during our growth, with a little variation from our imaginations, our ideal self is formed based on what we find more pleasant in the behaviours of others, we build this image of perfection that we want to reach, to a point where we are satisfied, because we want to be acepted, we want to be loved, so we try to be the best we can be, being a hacker showing off his/her technical skills, the reach of their power, or a nurse trying to help people who are in pain, because thats their best self image they have liked the most. its inevitable to be an echo of our surroundings as we develop, we have to fit our suroundings in order to survive, we have to adapt, and we get used to that type of learned behavour. now, Laskya, about your fears, don't be afraid to make mistakes, we all do, if science would not have done all those failed experiments it would not have the knowledge that it has now, think that at the moment you make a decision you do it with your best intention, and with the best knowledge you have at that moment in time, making mistakes is part of our development process, we should not see it as a future tragedy, we should see it as an opportunity to try something that we may learn it doesnt work, or discover that it was after all the best option we could take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irihapeti Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Dillon Levenque wrote: Do you have to keep bringing this up every single time? ps: I am not jealous. At all. yes. i. do. bc this the internets and after like 6 seconds people forgotttt already ps. are to q; (: (not really) pps. you more beautiful I think than pretty. Like on the inside. Your wairua. Is warm (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irihapeti Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Madelaine McMasters wrote: is flat if was just about flat then I be able to stand on my edge. or sideways maybe. Probably not make much difference tho. jejejeje (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Thank you. Yours also. There are quite a few warm and attractive wairuas at work in this forum, I think. That's one of the things that keeps me coming back. But just for fun (excuse the massively sexist pov: it was the 60's and it is Peter Sellers, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Hmmm. Or this might be even more appropriate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: Hmmm. Or this might be even more appropriate? LOL. Perfect, even if it is a slight derail. Or maybe not: you are the OP, after all. The thread is yours to do with as you wish. It is entirely up to you to determine the warp and the woof. I might have said 'woof' when Goldie Hawn stuck her tongue out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Dillon Levenque wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Hmmm. Or this might be even more appropriate? LOL. Perfect, even if it is a slight derail. Or maybe not: you are the OP, after all. The thread is yours to do with as you wish. It is entirely up to you to determine the warp and the woof. I might have said 'woof' when Goldie Hawn stuck her tongue out. Yeah, Goldie knows what she's doing, I guess. To some degree, her character here exemplifies what I called "fluffy" (above), except that being a star and all, she's waaaaaaaay better at it than I am. ;-) It's not a complete derail, either. Seller's character's sexual success is based on making the women he desires feel desireable. Tell someone they are "lovely," and they will be believe it, because they want to believe it. I think we are shaped by the perceptions, and opinions, of others in this way in all kinds of different regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irihapeti Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 and bc deep (: (altho is quite deep that song above when break it down) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: It's not a complete derail, either. Seller's character's sexual success is based on making the women he desires feel desireable. Tell someone they are "lovely," and they will be believe it, because they want to believe it. I think we are shaped by the perceptions, and opinions, of others in this way in all kinds of different regards. Works both ways or maybe all ways, as you suggested. In a scene from the movie i played earlier, one of the female stars says to one of the male leads something very much like this: "You know, when the light hits you a certain way.....you're almost handsome." I know a guy who heard that, in fact he heard it from the girl who was with him watching the movie. Got right to him. I could NOT find the line repeated, which is a damned shame. Here's the guy in question (and yes, I know, it didn't matter a bit which way the light hit him). Song done by Manfred Mann, although a vastly superior version was released a year later by 'Love'. Written, incredibly enough, by Burt Bacharach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 irihapeti wrote: Loved that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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