Perrie Juran Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: It's a curious thing to ask others who you should be. Let's wonder for a moment if this is an aspect of your character that survived your amnesia. Was the original you a construction designed to please others? I'd think long and hard before trying that again. You've been given a rare opportunity to create yourself anew. Rather than submit to design by committee, look within for a glowing ember you can fan. But don't do that until I can create an alt named ember. Maybe I over-think it. I am always very aware of how I present in these sorts of contexts, particularly online. Perhaps too much so, although self-awareness and self-critique is not a bad thing, I guess. But none of us here is really "authentic," in part because there is no single authentic self for me to discover, and in part because the medium also shapes us. And also the community within which we find ourselves. To some degree, what I "am" here is a function of how I am "read" (because here I am, mostly, text, right?). That was one of the most interesting things about reappearing here with a new avatar -- on the one hand, it didn't take people too long to suss out my former identity -- and it took even less time to feel that I'd been forced into assuming, again, that particular articulation of myself. Or maybe that would've happened again anyway? Changing the label on the can doesn't change the contents in the can. Unless you make a concerted effort to seperate the carrots from the peas people will recognise the soup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Perrie Juran wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: It's a curious thing to ask others who you should be. Let's wonder for a moment if this is an aspect of your character that survived your amnesia. Was the original you a construction designed to please others? I'd think long and hard before trying that again. You've been given a rare opportunity to create yourself anew. Rather than submit to design by committee, look within for a glowing ember you can fan. But don't do that until I can create an alt named ember. Maybe I over-think it. I am always very aware of how I present in these sorts of contexts, particularly online. Perhaps too much so, although self-awareness and self-critique is not a bad thing, I guess. But none of us here is really "authentic," in part because there is no single authentic self for me to discover, and in part because the medium also shapes us. And also the community within which we find ourselves. To some degree, what I "am" here is a function of how I am "read" (because here I am, mostly, text, right?). That was one of the most interesting things about reappearing here with a new avatar -- on the one hand, it didn't take people too long to suss out my former identity -- and it took even less time to feel that I'd been forced into assuming, again, that particular articulation of myself. Or maybe that would've happened again anyway? Changing the label on the can doesn't change the contents in the can. Unless you make a concerted effort to seperate the carrots from the peas people will recognise the soup. Yeah, but you don't SEE the contents -- I keep my carrots and peas to myself: you can merely assume that they are there on the basis of what appears on the can. All you get is the label. That label could say anything I choose it to say. And once you've decided that I AM carrots and peas, it's going to be pretty hard for me to convince you that I'm actually mushrooms and asparagus. Whatever my actual calorie count and fat content, you're perception makes me what I seem to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I've no idea what Thandie is talking about, but I could listen to her all day... There may well be an authentic self. That it's difficult to see doesn't mean it's not there. Throw more experiences at it, you might glimpse its outline. Over-thinking is a misnomer. Under-doing is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: your perception makes me what I seem to you. Your perception also makes you what you seem to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Madelaine McMasters wrote: I've no idea what Thandie is talking about, but I could listen to her all day... There may well be an authentic self. That it's difficult to see doesn't mean it's not there. Throw more experiences at it, you might glimpse its outline. Over-thinking is a misnomer. Under-doing is the problem. I hesitate to criticize Thandie's view because her experiences have been so very different from mine. I've really been fortunate that I've seldom found my "selves" rejected. I've been surrounded by love and acceptance all of my life. But maybe that makes self-critique all the more important? I don't think I believe in "oneness." I'd love to, and maybe for some it is a necessary belief, but mostly I think, despite the fact that I have been accepted and supported, that we are always groping rather blindly to connect, and that the words we use are both the only means we have to do so, and at the same time the biggest impediment to success. And if there is, under all of that, an "authentic self," I think it is rather like God or "The Theory of Everything": way too complicated to ever more than vaguely comprehend. I do like your point about doing, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Madelaine McMasters wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: your perception makes me what I seem to you. Your perception also makes you what you seem to you. Yeah, but that just makes me one more reader and interpreter of myself. What if you're a better reader than I am, and I've just completely missed the important bits of the story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: It's a curious thing to ask others who you should be. Let's wonder for a moment if this is an aspect of your character that survived your amnesia. Was the original you a construction designed to please others? I'd think long and hard before trying that again. You've been given a rare opportunity to create yourself anew. Rather than submit to design by committee, look within for a glowing ember you can fan. But don't do that until I can create an alt named ember. Maybe I over-think it. I am always very aware of how I present in these sorts of contexts, particularly online. Perhaps too much so, although self-awareness and self-critique is not a bad thing, I guess. But none of us here is really "authentic," in part because there is no single authentic self for me to discover, and in part because the medium also shapes us. And also the community within which we find ourselves. To some degree, what I "am" here is a function of how I am "read" (because here I am, mostly, text, right?). That was one of the most interesting things about reappearing here with a new avatar -- on the one hand, it didn't take people too long to suss out my former identity -- and it took even less time to feel that I'd been forced into assuming, again, that particular articulation of myself. Or maybe that would've happened again anyway? Changing the label on the can doesn't change the contents in the can. Unless you make a concerted effort to seperate the carrots from the peas people will recognise the soup. Yeah, but you don't SEE the contents -- I keep my carrots and peas to myself: But have you really kept your peas and carrots to yourself in this Forum? Granted that I myself haven't shown all my contents here in this Forum except to a select few number of people. I'd guess if someone made a concerted effort they could xray my can and get a better view of all the contents. But another question we could ask is do you want to be a different person here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Perrie Juran wrote: But have you really kept your peas and carrots to yourself in this Forum? Granted that I myself haven't shown all my contents here in this Forum except to a select few number of people. I'd guess if someone made a concerted effort they could xray my can and get a better view of all the contents. But another question we could ask is do you want to be a different person here? I don't really have an option about keeping my peas and carrots to my self: *I* am not here. To some degree (at the risk of sounding really pompous) we are all defined here by the fact that we are absent. My peas and carrots are slowly coming to a boil thousands of miles away from the server where this text appears. That's in particular surely what makes onilne communities and identity so interesting? My words are a stand-in for me: they represent me, and maybe even shield me from view, rather than being transparencies that allow you to glimpse into my soul. Now, the degree to which I reveal "myself" (whoever that is) will depend on 1) my willingness and ability to use language to present something that is a reasonable simulation of myself, and 2) your ability to read and interpret it. And, of course, xrays are the not only way to scan contents: different kinds of machine will discover different "truths" that may not always be obviously compatible. In terms of what I want, I suppose what I aim for is being "more like" my preconceived notion of what I am, or want to be. Sometimes, I think, I've succeeded at that, and sometimes failed miserably (and been left really embarrassed as a result). Interestingly, the way I've measured my success at being a better "me" is by the way others have responded to that presentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: I've no idea what Thandie is talking about, but I could listen to her all day... There may well be an authentic self. That it's difficult to see doesn't mean it's not there. Throw more experiences at it, you might glimpse its outline. Over-thinking is a misnomer. Under-doing is the problem. I hesitate to criticize Thandie's view because her experiences have been so very different from mine. I've really been fortunate that I've seldom found my "selves" rejected. I've been surrounded by love and acceptance all of my life. But maybe that makes self-critique all the more important? I don't think I believe in "oneness." I'd love to, and maybe for some it is a necessary belief, but mostly I think, despite the fact that I have been accepted and supported, that we are always groping rather blindly to connect, and that the words we use are both the only means we have to do so, and at the same time the biggest impediment to success. And if there is, under all of that, an "authentic self," I think it is rather like God or "The Theory of Everything": way too complicated to ever more than vaguely comprehend. I do like your point about doing, though. I've also led a charmed life. As a loner, I don't often get close enough for the kind of rejection that would deeply hurt me. When it happens, I work to understand why, but probably don't make significant changes. I just get better at avoiding future incidents. But, I have felt my otherness since I was quite young. That might be why I'm a loner. I'm an observer by nature. Now and then I'll catch "myself" doing something curious and I'll try to grab hold of it for examination. And it's then that I discover that I'm more like other people than I'd believed, or they're more like me. I see a "oneness" in the sense that I'm a little monkey (my "rational", conscious self) riding a tiger (my "irrational" subconscious selves) crafting stories to explain the paths I take, as if I'd chosen them "all by myself!" when I have only a vague comprehension of what's carrying me around. From what I have seen, I think there's more commonality in the tigers than in the monkeys. My monkey is a loner, my tiger isn't. This is how a loner ends up writing walls-of-text. Sometimes I will throw myself into a new and potentially uncomfortable experience, hoping to catch that tiger by the tail, if only for a moment. That's interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: your perception makes me what I seem to you. Your perception also makes you what you seem to you. Yeah, but that just makes me one more reader and interpreter of myself. What if you're a better reader than I am, and I've just completely missed the important bits of the story? What's a better reader? Wouldn't that depend on your goals (if you knew them)? We've probably all had the experience of knowing someone who we thought read us better than we did, but didn't think they could read us at all. At any moment, I could make a random observation about you that gives you insight. Don't give me credit for that. I think this is why therapists often say "just talking about things helps". If everybody reads you differently than you read yourself, you might have to allow for the possibility you're illiterate. Now the question is, who are you unable to read, yourself or them? If you want an intractible theory, you don't need to include everything. Two people is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Perrie Juran wrote: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I see no reason why we can't all tuck our peas and carrots between our legs. ...Dres *wants points for elevating the level of intellectual stimuli contained within this thread* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenbro Utu Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: My badge looks pretty sharply focused to me! Maybe you do need glasses? I am glad at least part of you has obtained a clarity of focus. Although now, your views do seem to be a bit slanted, to the right actually. Perhaps this is an insight into your political leaning. Edited to correct "left" to "right." Though you are slanted towards my left, you are actually slanted towards your right. Perhaps I was projecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 My carrot slants to the left, as do my political affiliations... which means that I'm probably as unbalanced as most people think I am. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Madelaine McMasters wrote: I've also led a charmed life. As a loner, I don't often get close enough for the kind of rejection that would deeply hurt me. When it happens, I work to understand why, but probably don't make significant changes. I just get better at avoiding future incidents. But, I have felt my otherness since I was quite young. That might be why I'm a loner. I'm an observer by nature. Now and then I'll catch "myself" doing something curious and I'll try to grab hold of it for examination. And it's then that I discover that I'm more like other people than I'd believed, or they're more like me. I see a "oneness" in the sense that I'm a little monkey (my "rational", conscious self) riding a tiger (my "irrational" subconscious selves) crafting stories to explain the paths I take, as if I'd chosen them "all by myself!" when I have only a vague comprehension of what's carrying me around. From what I have seen, I think there's more commonality in the tigers than in the monkeys. My monkey is a loner, my tiger isn't. This is how a loner ends up writing walls-of-text. Sometimes I will throw myself into a new and potentially uncomfortable experience, hoping to catch that tiger by the tail, if only for a moment. That's interesting. I've always been fascinated by your tendency to think of yourself, or at least characterize yourself, in binaries. Maddy and Snugs, the monkey and the tiger (which would, btw, make a brilliant fable: I think you should work one up!) I feel a oneness, I guess, in that there is obviously something holding my fragmented paragraphs and sentences together. And clearly others perceive that in me -- or, again, I wouldn't have been so easily identified when I started posting here again. I do like feeling in control of myself. I think it's one of the reasons why I pay attention to the way that I write: I'm seldom slapdash (although I do sometimes, usually to my regret, write without thinking very carefully). I don't think I generally like putting myself in uncomfortable "new" situations. Although, maybe joining SL in the first place was that. And maybe, in a way, this thread is too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Madelaine McMasters wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: your perception makes me what I seem to you. Your perception also makes you what you seem to you. Yeah, but that just makes me one more reader and interpreter of myself. What if you're a better reader than I am, and I've just completely missed the important bits of the story? What's a better reader? Wouldn't that depend on your goals (if you knew them)? We've probably all had the experience of knowing someone who we thought read us better than we did, but didn't think they could read us at all. At any moment, I could make a random observation about you that gives you insight. Don't give me credit for that. Yeah. Actually, I hate that. It makes me feel vulnerable and a bit naked. I think this is why therapists often say "just talking about things helps". I enjoy doing that. Which may be one of the reasons people are reluctant to go out for a coffee with me sometimes . . . If everybody reads you differently than you read yourself, you might have to allow for the possibility you're illiterate. Now the question is, who are you unable to read, yourself or them? But I can "read" chapters that they can't see! I don't think that that necessarily qualifies me as a better reader of myself -- but it does help explain why there may be a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Perrie Juran wrote: I don't actually much like chocolate. I think I prefer peas and carrots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: I don't actually much like chocolate. I think I prefer peas and carrots. One is maybe better for the body. The other better for the soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Dresden Ceriano wrote: I see no reason why we can't all tuck our peas and carrots between our legs. ...Dres *wants points for elevating the level of intellectual stimuli contained within this thread* I think I used to know how to reply to stuff like this, but I've forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Dresden Ceriano wrote: My carrot slants to the left, as do my political affiliations... which means that I'm probably as unbalanced as most people think I am. ...Dres Is that an actual anatomical thing, that slanting? Or just folklore? (In carrots, I mean, of course.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Kenbro Utu wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: My badge looks pretty sharply focused to me! Maybe you do need glasses? I am glad at least part of you has obtained a clarity of focus. Although now, your views do seem to be a bit slanted, to the right actually. Perhaps this is an insight into your political leaning. Edited to correct "left" to "right." Though you are slanted towards my left, you are actually slanted towards your right. Perhaps I was projecting. After I woke up this morning, and went out for a coffee, the barista winked at me and called me "Comrade." So you can draw your own conclusions. I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irihapeti Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: In terms of what I want, I suppose what I aim for is being "more like" my preconceived notion of what I am, or want to be. Sometimes, I think, I've succeeded at that, and sometimes failed miserably (and been left really embarrassed as a result). Interestingly, the way I've measured my success at being a better "me" is by the way others have responded to that presentation. is way deep this sooo you can be me if you like lots of people want to me. Like heaps of them. They say it all the time. Gosh!! why I cant i just be like you. All the time is bc I am pretty. Like way pretty. way way. I cant help it. I was just born that way. So is not my fault only people who dont want to be like me are them who just jealous. Is not their fault either that. They was just born like that as well sometimes some people be mean to me and say I am shallow. But I just smile back at them bc they just jealous and like I say already is not their fault bc they was born like that. So I am be generous to them less blessed and less pretty than me and not think bad of them (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Irihapeti, on the basis of the (relatively little) that I've seen of you here, and of what others have said about you, I'd say this is a truly generous offer. I'd be honoured to be you. Except that I'd do a lousy job of it. You are a much better you than I could ever be: I'd have counterfeit written all over me. But thank you. -) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 irihapeti wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: In terms of what I want, I suppose what I aim for is being "more like" my preconceived notion of what I am, or want to be. Sometimes, I think, I've succeeded at that, and sometimes failed miserably (and been left really embarrassed as a result). Interestingly, the way I've measured my success at being a better "me" is by the way others have responded to that presentation. is way deep this sooo you can be me if you like lots of people want to me. Like heaps of them. They say it all the time. Gosh!! why I cant i just be like you. All the time is bc I am pretty. Like way pretty. way way. I cant help it. I was just born that way. So is not my fault only people who dont want to be like me are them who just jealous. Is not their fault either that. They was just born like that as well sometimes some people be mean to me and say I am shallow. But I just smile back at them bc they just jealous and like I say already is not their fault bc they was born like that. So I am be generous to them less blessed and less pretty than me and not think bad of them (: Do you have to keep bringing this up every single time? We get it, okay? You're way way way way pretty! It's true. You're prettier than everybody! You're prettier than anybody can even imagine! Enough with reminding us, already. ps: I am not jealous. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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