joal Oddenfen Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 For 7 years i have been here and have seen many things, for a lot of that time i tried to see what makes people leave so have made a list, not in any order but the things i think ebby will address for sl2.1. banning that has to be the biggest turn off and mostly done by people with low self asteem that get a tag and the power to ban, the best one i heard was from a blues club, reason for banning - "to old and making young people leave" the person admitted to being over 60, the host immed them and said they were banning them for saying that.2. being forced to walk through malls then to find out you cant get to the sim unless you wear a role play hud or be a member of a group, when you do get a hud and join the group you find out the sim is empty of role play players.3. road side adds, well that was more a problem of the past but add farmers drove people nuts.4. greifers. griefing these days is done covertly, one of the worst i saw was in fact a helper from this forum, they get anyone they dont like banned, if they cant wind them up with chat they get freinds to publicly doubt thier gender and thier motives for being in sl.5. arrogance. a lot of people that have been in sl a long time and are so arrogant that should a first day person meet them they wont ever return.6. freedom of speech, many clubs ban people for talking about the wrong thing, this forum does the same, think this one is linked to 5 as long timers do see themselves as the police force of sl.there are many more but these are things ebby can address in this new sl and taking shops and malls out of sl will help with many role play sims, also ebby might make it so only lindens can ban, which means host will have to report and not have a ban button to press, as for 5 and 6, well the old arrogant ones wont move to the new sl as they will have to start at the bottom like a noob and dont know how to any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheG0t Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 people who complain involving list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joal Oddenfen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 sorry dont understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren Toxx Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 joal Oddenfen wrote: [...] 5. arrogance. a lot of people that have been in sl a long time and are so arrogant that should a first day person meet them they wont ever return. [...] There are many rather arguable points in your post, but just to pick one: if you were Ebbe Linden, how would you prevent arrogance in SL2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joal Oddenfen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 I think the root of it is time served, much the same in the prison system, the way they deal with it is to move the prisoners to a place where they are new and have no position, but the exact same affect will happen with a new sl, all that join will just be a day old, those that have become dependant on their time served position will not move and will riot if attempts are made to make them move, as ebby wont be holding a gun to thier heads then they will stay, then as soon as the new sl is estabilished so he will close down this one leaving them no where to go, as most in the new sl will be 2 years or more old in the new world they wont want to join it, well that is my thoughts on it, as long as he dont close this world too close to the launch of the new one he should stop those arrogant ones from joining the new one, timing is important i think. Have you already seen the worst ones refusing to move, i have, lol. very school yard in some places. I might add if there are no malls or shops and no banning many of the arrogant ones will lose the tools they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli May Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 joal Oddenfen wrote: ... I might add if there are no malls or shops and no banning many of the arrogant ones will lose the tools they have. As all the indications so far are that merchant sales are going to be very important to SL2 and a vital part of the revenue stream, your wish for no malls and shops is unrealistic. You also complain about griefing, but then you want LL to remove one of the tools residents have to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Devin Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 "For 7 years i have been here and have seen many things, for a lot of that time i tried to see what makes people leave so have made a list, not in any order but the things i think ebby will address for sl2." We are almost twins! What ruins SL1 for you may seem quite minor to someone else, although other people may be very annoyed by something that you have fully embraced.For example, mesh started me on the slippery slope to ruination - but really that is being over-dramatic, and really, if I go back a bit further in my own SL history, my lack of adaptibility has been my own downfall. I've seen a lot of people leave too, have almost left myself. And I've seen a lot of people hold tight, hold firmer than ever and embrace all the things I do not like - be they mesh, or even beastiality (bestiality) :matte-motes-agape: Diaper fetishists and other "specialist" roleplay groups have marred my Second Life, but have not ruined it, now the meds have kicked in enough to blur what I saw without having to resort to eye bleach. "1. banning that has to be the biggest turn off and mostly done by people with low self asteem that get a tag and the power to ban, the best one i heard was from a blues club, reason for banning - "to old and making young people leave" the person admitted to being over 60, the host immed them and said they were banning them for saying that." I think it is rather amusing to be banned from someone's land - and just because they can. I would not go out of my way to be banned, but if this gives someone a sad bit of pleasure, then so be it. I am glad to be of service !:matte-motes-sarcasm: "2. being forced to walk through malls then to find out you cant get to the sim unless you wear a role play hud or be a member of a group, when you do get a hud and join the group you find out the sim is empty of role play players." That is just slightly frustrating to me, except if I cannot find a quick and easy way to get to where I want to be, by alt viewing around and TP-ing across, then I figure its probably not worth the fight and go elsewhere. That is undoubtedly why though the sim is empty of roleplayers. "3. road side adds, well that was more a problem of the past but add farmers drove people nuts." Yes, they were very unsightly, and the extortion that went with a lot of the ad-farmers was frustrating and maddening, but one of the groups I was in helped to tackle this problem, and worked on, and continue to work on tidying up the mainland. As-farmers were some of the worst people in SL, but the upside was it brought out the good in a lot of people, who got together to work towards a more positive common aim. "4. greifers. griefing these days is done covertly, one of the worst i saw was in fact a helper from this forum, they get anyone they dont like banned, if they cant wind them up with chat they get freinds to publicly doubt thier gender and thier motives for being in sl." Oooooh, controversial. Was it me? It wasn't me. If it was me, I did it in my sleep. I cannot be held responsible for what I do in my sleep, its a known medical condition you know, down to my dyslexia and dyspepsia and insomnia, or is it amnesia, oh I forget. :matte-motes-big-grin-wink: 5. arrogance. a lot of people that have been in sl a long time and are so arrogant that should a first day person meet them they wont ever return. I would never be so arrogant as to think newbies are being met by arrogant people and that is the reason they leave never to return. There have been so many newbies who have stayed and thanked mentors for holding their hands through those first precarious weeks. Indeed, during my own early tentative steps inworld, I was exceedingly lucky, meeting no less than three people who helped me out, one of whom devoted much of his own SL time and without him I would not be still here now. 6. freedom of speech, many clubs ban people for talking about the wrong thing, this forum does the same, think this one is linked to 5 as long timers do see themselves as the police force of sl. There is freedom of speech, offering opinions and whatnot, and then there is making things too personal and making personal attacks or even resorting to bullying. How can the latter ever be right? Moderation is needed so the underdog(s) do not get overwhelmed or, as can be seen from other less moderated forums, there just end up being a few hardcore forumites remaining just waiting for that unsuspecting noob to walk into their virtual bear trap. Overall, the things that you say ruin SL1 look very minor. I mean to say, it does take all kinds of folks to make one big world, and Ebbe cannot (should not) be as God-like as to stop the freedom that has been occurring in SL1 from going into SL2. Creativity was always key, and that I believe is what SL2 will continue to be, but from a fresh start. It will, I have no doubts, evolve into another problematic platform, full of all the flawed people that SL1 has. New people will join and leave within 24 hours, as they do with SL1, but some will stay or return and stay at a later date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joal Oddenfen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 i think you will find that all sales will go though market place, this allows the linden to free land up for "experences", i have seen all his interviews and am sure this is what he intends, also he may expand the department that deals with banning from sl, as once he changes the definision of land so he can rightly say that only lindens can ban, would need a lawyer to comment on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joal Oddenfen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 please give me time to read it marigold, you are one of the long timers who would be welcomed in sl2 i am sure, when i have read it i will replay again, i think you have always been an asset to sl so please dont think i talk of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli May Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 joal Oddenfen wrote: i think you will find that all sales will go though market place, this allows the linden to free land up for "experences", i have seen all his interviews and am sure this is what he intends, also he may expand the department that deals with banning from sl, as once he changes the definision of land so he can rightly say that only lindens can ban, would need a lawyer to comment on that. I think you will find that your ideas are pure speculation at this point. We've no clear idea yet how sales will be handled, what form land 'ownership' is going to take, or if it will exist at all. You could be right, but your ability to make suppositions based on what you've heard doesn't give you any special credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joal Oddenfen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 From you i would expect nothing else, i have watched you over the years and you have always had a olive branch in your hand, one of the best assets sl have and a perfect person to meet anyone new, but you are unique arnt you marigold, no one else is like you, we need an army of people like you then all would be great, but we dont, only you and very few others. please dont think any of this relates to you, even though i have watched you all for years this is the first time i have spoken and only spoke because some here were confused as to what is happening, so i thought i better add my pennies worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joal Oddenfen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 I am not interested in your opinion of me, please keep comments within the sphere of the argument and dont make them personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Devin Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Please take your time. I am out for 24 hours now, and look forward to returning to this discussion and others in the morrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli May Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 joal Oddenfen wrote: I am not interested in your opinion of me, please keep comments within the sphere of the argument and dont make them personal. My post was clearly related to your argument and specifically your lack of evidence for it. My opinion of you doesn't come into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joal Oddenfen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 i am a one subject person, once this thread is over i wont return, but was nice talking to you, if i ever wanted anyone to talk to me it was you, so from that point of veiw my christmas has come, goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joal Oddenfen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 "your ability to make suppositions based on what you've heard doesn't give you any special credibility", what was that then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli May Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 joal Oddenfen wrote: "your ability to make suppositions based on what you've heard doesn't give you any special credibility", what was that then. That was me saying that your opinions on the subject are no more special than mine or anyone elses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joal Oddenfen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 then its your opinion on me and as i said i am not interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhys Goode Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 "3. road side adds, well that was more a problem of the past but add farmers drove people nuts." Ah, that does bring back memories, but I cant even think the last time I saw an ad farm. Some things in SL *do* get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joal Oddenfen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 yes thank god they have gone but there are still malls that are hard to get out of and when you do, you find a empty sim under them, i came to sl hoping to look for role play sims, in the early days when there were add farms i never had trouble in finding some and had a few years of fun, those that rem those days may remember my name, but after the add farms the malls seem to get bigger and harder to get out of, i also noticed that many sims that claimed to be role play were in fact mall farms and any people in the sims below were traffic bots, so i gave up looking for role play sims, i might add that in them days i had 3 full accounts had 1.5k of land, but gave it all up as there was less and less to do apart from get trapped in malls, so said to myself "that's it not another penny will i spend in sl" and i didnt, i have 10,000's of lindens from my accounts now but wont spend a penny of it, if the malls go and host stop banning and begging then i might tip again or buy something from market place, i refuse to be a cash cow, so wont part with a linden until i am made to feel human again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bree Giffen Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 1. Banning is what happens when you give a person the smallest bit of power. They sometimes use it unwisely. It's human nature to be corrupt and evil when given power over other people without apparent consequences. 2. I've never seen a mall like this but it sounds like the sim owners are trying o drum up role playing to the detriment of the casual shopper. I can't believe a store owner would put their only store in a sim like that. They must have other stores somewhere else. 3. I remember the ads. What a nightmare those were! Let's hope that LL remembers too. 4. Griefing is like banning. It's abuse of a tiny amount of power that a person has been given. We all have power to grief but we choose to not do it. It could all be due to Loki though. God of mischief. 5. I have seen some arrogance in SL but it doesn't affect me. I assume the person is an idiot and their behavior suddenly makes sense. 6. No one here can stop anyone from posting. All they can do is disagree. Only LL can ban people from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joal Oddenfen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 go looking for role play sims, some have malls you cant get out of as for stopping people from posting, there was one person that commented in this forum and all asked for them to be banned and that included makers like DCS asking all thier sim owners to ban them because no one liked thier ideas, they were not abusive they just had ideas that many here hated, the lindens have never banned them but the posters here managed to get them banned from this forum, ill say one name and many here can only hold thier head in shame LUCINDA BULLOCH, how evil were all here to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 joal Oddenfen wrote: go looking for role play sims, some have malls you cant get out of as for stopping people from posting, there was one person that commented in this forum and all asked for them to be banned and that included makers like DCS asking all thier sim owners to ban them because no one liked thier ideas, they were not abusive they just had ideas that many here hated, the lindens have never banned them but the posters here managed to get them banned from this forum, ill say one name and many here can only hold thier head in shame LUCINDA BULLOCH, how evil were all here to her. Ah yes. The person who came here with a whole bunch of statements that did not make a lot of sense and then viciously and quite personally attacked every single person who disagreed with any of those statements. The lovely Lucinda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joal Oddenfen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 how many of you dress up as wolfs, is that not odd, so ideas must be only for those that claim to be human, i have been to many role play sims and have seen people be all sorts of things, some sims ban them because they look like wolfs, or are vampires in the wrong sim, ok you disagree but i saw how most of you turned them into personal insults, for a short time it looked like fun but was destroying lucinda bit by bit, but DCS wanted that as they saw her as threat to thier business and was using this forum to promote her system, have you any idea what DCS did to her in world with all your support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 joal Oddenfen wrote: For 7 years i have been here and have seen many things, for a lot of that time i tried to see what makes people leave so have made a list, not in any order but the things i think ebby will address for sl2. 1. banning that has to be the biggest turn off and mostly done by people with low self asteem that get a tag and the power to ban, the best one i heard was from a blues club, reason for banning - "to old and making young people leave" the person admitted to being over 60, the host immed them and said they were banning them for saying that. I've been banned from places for no apparent (to me) reason. With more than 25,000 sims to visit, the loss of one doesn't bother me. I doubt many places would ban 60 somethings. More than half of SL residents are 35 or older. I'd rather suffer the negligible indignity of being banned from a place that doesn't like me (why would I want to go there?) than have no ability to remove uninvited and beligerent visitors from my home. 2. being forced to walk through malls then to find out you cant get to the sim unless you wear a role play hud or be a member of a group, when you do get a hud and join the group you find out the sim is empty of role play players. I've never been forced to do anything in SL. If I encounter a place that I don't like, I leave it. The Marketplace has all but eliminated my need to visit in-world shops, though I don't consider that an improvement to the SL experience, but rather an alternative to it. You don't get the serendipity of meeting new people in the Marketplace. 3. road side adds, well that was more a problem of the past but add farmers drove people nuts. I've been here for more than six years and haven't been bothered by such things. It's so easy to scoot about in SL that I have a hard time being annoyed. I just go elsewhere. As I've said, there is plenty of elsewhere. 4. greifers. griefing these days is done covertly, one of the worst i saw was in fact a helper from this forum, they get anyone they dont like banned, if they cant wind them up with chat they get freinds to publicly doubt thier gender and thier motives for being in sl. You're not the first to posit the Feted Inner Core theory. I've not seen evidence for it. It seems to me that people get banned for violating the Terms of Service and Community Guidelines. It's true that residents can bring violations to the attention of the Lab, but the power to ban is not ours. If one stays within the guidelines, no amount of reporting should result in a ban, except potentially to an overzealous abuse reporter. 5. arrogance. a lot of people that have been in sl a long time and are so arrogant that should a first day person meet them they wont ever return. I don't think arrogance is born of SL age. It seems rather the reverse to me. The really old timers have a long-haul temperament. I think arrogance is something we bring to SL, not hatch within it. I think it's our anonymity that allows us to push the envelope of our behavior. That's a mixed blessing, but I'll take it. 6. freedom of speech, many clubs ban people for talking about the wrong thing, this forum does the same, think this one is linked to 5 as long timers do see themselves as the police force of sl. While club owners can ban people for "talking about the wrong thing", the forum does not work like that. Banning here is done only by Linden Lab. Over in the Answers area, the most common requests for police action seem to come from noobs. The typical response is "ignore, AR if appropriate, move on". there are many more but these are things ebby can address in this new sl and taking shops and malls out of sl will help with many role play sims, also ebby might make it so only lindens can ban, which means host will have to report and not have a ban button to press, as for 5 and 6, well the old arrogant ones wont move to the new sl as they will have to start at the bottom like a noob and dont know how to any more. I'm ambivalent about removing shopping from in-world. The marketplace is certainly efficient, but there is something nice about wandering in-world shops and meeting people there. Imagine how many people LL would have to employ to handle requests from land/home owners to ban griefers from their properties. Then imagine how many people would leave if griefers were free to run wild until LL cleared the backlog of ban requests. There might be a better way to handle banning, but I don't think you've discovered it. I really don't know if SL is being ruined, so it's hard for me to point at a cause. I'd like to see more capable in-world building tools, so we could enjoy real-time collaborative creation. I'd like to see technical improvements that are probably beyond what's possible without starting from a clean sheet of paper, as Ebbe says will happen with the new world they're designing. But I'm well aware that getting what I want might mean losing everybody else. I can always find something to like about where I am, so I don't feel the need to have it all my way. Okay, maybe I do know what's ruining SL for me. My familiarity with it. I'd love to be a noob again. The most enticing thing about the new world Ebbe has on the drawing board is that I know nothing about it. ETA: Has anyone else been unable to color the text inside a quote? My favorite way of highlighting my responses within one (and annoying people with the rainbox results) no longer seems to work. I get an HTML error upon changing the color of anything inside a quoted block of text. Grrr, this is ruining SL! ;-). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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