Storm Clarence Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 If I was doing any type of FX it would be dollar ruble contract or a euro-basket ruble contract. The ruble is collapsing as we speak Toward this end, there are many other currency trades where money can be made - and it ain't in bitcoin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullperm Alpha Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 Storm Clarence wrote: You can't short bitcoin. So what are you talking about? You can my friend, you can. Bitfinex, Avatrade and for sure some other Inform please, then think and then talk ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Sudoquai Wonder wrote: Storm Clarence wrote: You can't short bitcoin. So what are you talking about? You can my friend, you can. Bitfinex, Avatrade and for sure some other Inform please, then think and then talk ... No, you can't short bitcoin. You seem a little clueless when it comes to trading financial instruments, too. Please refer to what I wrote above. The Bitfinex trading platform is currently in a beta phase (testing phase). The Company is incorporated in Hong Kong as a Limited Liability Corporation. Once the beta phase testing is complete the system will go live under the company name. You want to put all your marbles on a beta exchange? Where is the liquidity with 3 people trading? AND YOU CAN'T SHORT BITCOIN. PS A fool and his money are soon parted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Bitcoin has lost 32% of it's value since this OP was initiated. Good bet, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Ginko say's hello from someplace in south murica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Sudoquai Wonder wrote: Kwakkelde Kwak wrote: Sudoquai Wonder wrote: The question is: What is the asset, what is the base currency and what is the bubble? You cant argue Bitcoin is a Bubble ready to burst based on two articles. If you are absolutely sure, you can open a Forex Account and just Short Sell Bitcoin. If you are right you will make a lot of money with this bet! I wouldnt do that at the moment. Next target is around 10.000$ - like it or not and it will move to this direction. Maybe not tomorrow but it will. My reservations aren't based on two articles. History (short as it may be) shows the bubble effect, remember the 30-2 dollar drop? The 2 dollar is still higher than the "real value" of the asset, which is of course nothing. Short selling by myself won't be very wise, not right now at least, but what if the biggest bitcoin hoarders would do just that? You'd see the value drop from close to 1000 to 0 in a heartbeat. I won't be buying or shortselling anyway. I don't see bitcoins different from any other asset and I don't like to speculate, call me conservative. As the US goverment stopped the gold standard they've opened the possibility to make unlimited dues, which cant be returned. The US government for example has this problem actually NOW at the moment. They would like to decrease the dues, but they cant. Every half year they are increasing the dues together with the oposition and this leads to inflation first and then to hyperinflation or a hair cut. Maybe not this year but it will happen. The reason the gold standard was abandoned, was to prevent hyperinflation. It doesn't rule out the possibility of course. The value of money is based on trust, much like the bitcoin. The big difference is, normal money is regulated much better and like it or not, people have more trust in normal money than in bitcoins. Anyway, here's an article on the gold standard. Particularly this sentence: “Most economists now agree 90 percent of the reason why the U.S. got out of the Great Depression was the break with gold,” said Liaquat Ahamed, author of the book Lords of Finance. Bitcoin dropped already from 1200$ to 500$. The market didnt accept this price - correction phase is already over hovering at around 1000$. As well as the 30$ to 2$ drop - this past correction is over. We could really discuss the whole day, Kwak. But like i've suggested: If Bitcoin is a bubble, and you are sure then just shortsell it - i wish you good look and all the best with this bet. I wouldn't do that, at least not at the moment. Maybe in 5-10 years you can think about it. Maybe ... You've never answered my question about Bitcoins versus fiat currency in Second LIfe. What I asked, basically, is why if Bitcoins are a safer, more valuable currency, why would anyone want to blow them on imaginary islands when they could just as easily use fiat currency for their toys and keep the Bitcoins as investment? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Sudoquai Wonder wrote: Kwakkelde Kwak wrote: You do understand what an asset bubble is right? I thought this article explained the bitcoin bubble quite well. This one too. Hoarding will drive up the price of anything. Wasn't that the main reason the US government stopped using the gold standard in the 1930's? Backing money with gold seems more risky than not doing so. One also has to wonder how bad normal inflation is. A dollar might be worth 25 times less than a century ago, but more people are able to buy a house, a car, a new kitchen, plenty of food, go on vacation etc. etc. Hyperinflation is always a risk, but a bursting bubble is a higher one if you ask me. Therefor (among many more reasons) I have more trust in "normal" currency than in bitcoins. But what do I know? I'm not an economist. The question is: What is the asset, what is the base currency and what is the bubble? You cant argue Bitcoin is a Bubble ready to burst based on two articles. If you are absolutely sure, you can open a Forex Account and just Short Sell Bitcoin. If you are right you will make a lot of money with this bet! I wouldnt do that at the moment. Next target is around 10.000$ - like it or not and it will move to this direction. Maybe not tomorrow but it will. You must have lost your home, shirt and credibility over the past few days ... you were right to sell short (if one could) because you were dead wrong on the direction it was moving. You lose - I win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Sudoquai Wonder wrote: Kwakkelde Kwak wrote: Sudoquai Wonder wrote: The question is: What is the asset, what is the base currency and what is the bubble? You cant argue Bitcoin is a Bubble ready to burst based on two articles. If you are absolutely sure, you can open a Forex Account and just Short Sell Bitcoin. If you are right you will make a lot of money with this bet! I wouldnt do that at the moment. Next target is around 10.000$ - like it or not and it will move to this direction. Maybe not tomorrow but it will. My reservations aren't based on two articles. History (short as it may be) shows the bubble effect, remember the 30-2 dollar drop? The 2 dollar is still higher than the "real value" of the asset, which is of course nothing. Short selling by myself won't be very wise, not right now at least, but what if the biggest bitcoin hoarders would do just that? You'd see the value drop from close to 1000 to 0 in a heartbeat. I won't be buying or shortselling anyway. I don't see bitcoins different from any other asset and I don't like to speculate, call me conservative. As the US goverment stopped the gold standard they've opened the possibility to make unlimited dues, which cant be returned. The US government for example has this problem actually NOW at the moment. They would like to decrease the dues, but they cant. Every half year they are increasing the dues together with the oposition and this leads to inflation first and then to hyperinflation or a hair cut. Maybe not this year but it will happen. The reason the gold standard was abandoned, was to prevent hyperinflation. It doesn't rule out the possibility of course. The value of money is based on trust, much like the bitcoin. The big difference is, normal money is regulated much better and like it or not, people have more trust in normal money than in bitcoins. Anyway, here's an article on the gold standard. Particularly this sentence: “Most economists now agree 90 percent of the reason why the U.S. got out of the Great Depression was the break with gold,” said Liaquat Ahamed, author of the book Lords of Finance. Bitcoin dropped already from 1200$ to 500$. The market didnt accept this price - correction phase is already over hovering at around 1000$. As well as the 30$ to 2$ drop - this past correction is over. ... Again, you were dead wrong. It's just beginning. You are playing a game you simply do not understand. Period. You just don't get it! You have already lost over 30 percent of your money since you started this OP. Ride it out a little longer perhaps you will lose 75% by end of 1st quarter. Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullperm Alpha Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 Storm Clarence wrote: Sudoquai Wonder wrote: Kwakkelde Kwak wrote: Sudoquai Wonder wrote: The question is: What is the asset, what is the base currency and what is the bubble? You cant argue Bitcoin is a Bubble ready to burst based on two articles. If you are absolutely sure, you can open a Forex Account and just Short Sell Bitcoin. If you are right you will make a lot of money with this bet! I wouldnt do that at the moment. Next target is around 10.000$ - like it or not and it will move to this direction. Maybe not tomorrow but it will. My reservations aren't based on two articles. History (short as it may be) shows the bubble effect, remember the 30-2 dollar drop? The 2 dollar is still higher than the "real value" of the asset, which is of course nothing. Short selling by myself won't be very wise, not right now at least, but what if the biggest bitcoin hoarders would do just that? You'd see the value drop from close to 1000 to 0 in a heartbeat. I won't be buying or shortselling anyway. I don't see bitcoins different from any other asset and I don't like to speculate, call me conservative. As the US goverment stopped the gold standard they've opened the possibility to make unlimited dues, which cant be returned. The US government for example has this problem actually NOW at the moment. They would like to decrease the dues, but they cant. Every half year they are increasing the dues together with the oposition and this leads to inflation first and then to hyperinflation or a hair cut. Maybe not this year but it will happen. The reason the gold standard was abandoned, was to prevent hyperinflation. It doesn't rule out the possibility of course. The value of money is based on trust, much like the bitcoin. The big difference is, normal money is regulated much better and like it or not, people have more trust in normal money than in bitcoins. Anyway, here's an article on the gold standard. Particularly this sentence: “Most economists now agree 90 percent of the reason why the U.S. got out of the Great Depression was the break with gold,” said Liaquat Ahamed, author of the book Lords of Finance. Bitcoin dropped already from 1200$ to 500$. The market didnt accept this price - correction phase is already over hovering at around 1000$. As well as the 30$ to 2$ drop - this past correction is over. ... Again, you were dead wrong. It's just beginning. You are playing a game you simply do not understand. Period. You just don't get it! You have already lost over 30 percent of your money since you started this OP. Ride it out a little longer perhaps you will lose 75% by end of 1st quarter. Lol! Storm - you CAN short Bitcoin but there is no reason to do it (go to Avatrade). Your Timeframe is some hours, maybe days. I've bought Bitcoin at much more lower levels. So i cant see any loss looking at my initial investment ... I can sleep very well. BTW: A good trader never invests his whole wealth in one basket ... but dream on And good as i am i am telling you - Bitcoin is "bubbling" and "bursting" every year. But the "bubble" is always bigger then the "burst" - hopefully i could help you. The last "bubble" and "burst" was at April 2013. And yes: After each bubble Bitcoin is loosing 75% of its value - gaining 1000% after correction. But do what you want, i am not your mum or dad ... and discussions like this are very off-topic for me. Nobody is forcing you to use Bitcoin. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Sudoquai Wonder wrote: Have a nice day. Have an up day, Suds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Bitcoin is trading at 300USD which is over 70% lower from the start of the *dares* by Suds to short in order to prove him wrong. Well, he was not only proven wrong - he has to be a lot poorer today than he was last week. I'm glad I wasn't long snakeoil. TIP OF THE DAY: Never, ever take trading advice from people on the Internet who think they understand but absolutely do not. As was proved in this thread over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Or, were he a Silk Road 2 customer, he wouldn't have lost 70%. He would have lost it all. That's assuming he acually had any bitcoin investment at all. It's just as likely that he was trolling for the fun of getting others to lose money. It's like working at Goldman Sachs without the pesky getting dressed and leaving the house thing. I'm frankly surprised that the technology is so terribly primitive that an exchange could be completely vulnerable to that transaction malleability bug. I think a successful crypto-currency would be a disaster for the world economy (modern markets absolutely depend on the intervention of central banks in money supply), so in that sense it's helpful that the wheels come off the bitcoin bus every few months. It is nonetheless surprising just how often it falls apart... ... almost as if the vulnerabilities were designed-in. Hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Qie Niangao wrote: Or, were he a Silk Road 2 customer, he wouldn't have lost 70%. He would have lost it all. That's assuming he acually had any bitcoin investment at all. It's just as likely that he was trolling for the fun of getting others to lose money. It's like working at Goldman Sachs without the pesky getting dressed and leaving the house thing. I'm frankly surprised that the technology is so terribly primitive that an exchange could be completely vulnerable to that transaction malleability bug. I think a successful crypto-currency would be a disaster for the world economy (modern markets absolutely depend on the intervention of central banks in money supply), so in that sense it's helpful that the wheels come off the bitcoin bus every few months. It is nonetheless surprising just how often it falls apart... ... almost as if the vulnerabilities were designed-in. Hmmm. I remember when BitCoin started up and I started reading about it one of the things being said was people wanted a currency free from Gov't control and manipulation. They never accounted for it being manipulated by other people. What more proof does any one need that it can be manipulated than the 51% Attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Qie, like they say; if it sounds to good to be true, then it probably isn't true. I think Suds just finished watching the "Wolf of Wall Street". He thought, and thought wrongly, that others in SL do not have insight and knowledge (and tremendous insight and knowledge) of this (trading) game. Maybe tomorrow Suds will try to sell us on some toxic MBS tranches. I'll give him an earful then as well. PS Funny you mention GS as I was part of the team who designed and wrote their forex platform circa 1985. Yes, I had to don a tie everyday too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullperm Alpha Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Storm Clarence wrote: Bitcoin is trading at 300USD which is over 70% lower from the start of the *dares* by Suds to short in order to prove him wrong. Well, he was not only proven wrong - he has to be a lot poorer today than he was last week. I'm glad I wasn't long snakeoil. TIP OF THE DAY: Never, ever take trading advice from people on the Internet who think they understand but absolutely do not. As was proved in this thread over and over again. No - I am not trading at mtgox Maybe you should mention the correct price at other exchanges. A lot of people think mtgox is not solvent but mtgox doesnt play a big role anymore. Its 700$ and this is not 70% lower ... just to remember you spikes are not representative for Bitcoin. Bitcoin was around 400$ weeks before and got to 1000$ again. If you look at the history you will see that this is nothing special for bitcoin. Its still bullish if you look at a wider not so tight timeframe. And to tell you again - ive bought bitcoin at a much lower price. The actual protocol problem is known a long time (2-3 years) but the real problem is that some exchanges implemented it in the wrong way. Similar to your local Bank ATM, with a fake mask ATM in front of it or people phishing your online bank account. I am sure you wouldnt call this secure as well, but i am sure you dont care about. BTW: With threads like this you are doing not a big favor to yourself ... but its your decision. http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Trolls/td-p/2495749/highlight/true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 It's you Suds who is all over the place in this thread. You pointed us to exchanges that don't exist or are in beta. If several exchanges all mark bitcoin prices according to their whim then how do we know what the price of bitcoin is? We don't and you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullperm Alpha Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Oh really Storm ? Seems there is now a open discussion about Bitcoin in the Forum and i am still waiting for the big crash of Bitcoin Bitcoins can be accepted without Problems in Secondlife. So there is now an other alternative Currency to Lindendollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooja Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Sudoquai Wonder wrote: Bitcoins can be accepted without Problems in Secondlife. No they can't. Wooja...questionthemotivationofthisscammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Sudoquai Wonder wrote: Oh really Storm ? Seems there is now a open discussion about Bitcoin in the Forum and i am still waiting for the big crash of Bitcoin Bitcoins can be accepted without Problems in Secondlife. So there is now an other alternative Currency to Lindendollar. How? I keep asking this in all these threads, whenever this business of accepting bitcoin in-world comes up. I can't seem to get anybody to answer what they even mean by it, let alone how they've implemented it (if indeed they have). I mean, if you couldn't see source, would you trade bitcoins in-world? (And if so, umm... just a moment. ... Okay, over here is where bitcoin is accepted in-world. Yeah, that's the ticket!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Qie Niangao wrote: Sudoquai Wonder wrote: Oh really Storm ? Seems there is now a open discussion about Bitcoin in the Forum and i am still waiting for the big crash of Bitcoin Bitcoins can be accepted without Problems in Secondlife. So there is now an other alternative Currency to Lindendollar. How? I keep asking this in all these threads, whenever this business of accepting bitcoin in-world comes up. I can't seem to get anybody to answer what they even mean by it, let alone how they've implemented it (if indeed they have). I mean, if you couldn't see source, would you trade bitcoins in-world? (And if so, umm... just a moment. ... Okay, over here is where bitcoin is accepted in-world. Yeah, that's the ticket!) If they don't want to post where publically they could always private message you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullperm Alpha Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Bitcoins can be accepted without Problems in Secondlife. You can even make a "Bitcoin accepted" Banner in front of your shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MizzFuzzyMoran Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 i think i have some bitcoins so how do i buy stuff here with them wen all the stuff in the markteplace wants linden dollers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MizzKittenzz Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Through Lindex I don't believe they accept Bitcoins or trade in it, but other sites do and they trade it. Bitcoins are a real currency that the value sometimes goes down or up, so im glad certain places accept it in place of money. Now It may crash really low but then again it may rise tremendously all in the same day, I always make sure to turn it to cash right away lol. Maybe if you want Bitcoins instead of money, Here's an idea; Maybe you could try VirWox? They have the official linden labs reseller seal. I don't know much but I do believe you have multiple options to just convert your money earned through them into Bitcoins I think... I use them to sell my Bitcoins and turn them Into Lindens for second life, it seems to be in high demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Sudoquai Wonder wrote: Bitcoins can be accepted without Problems in Secondlife. You can even make a "Bitcoin accepted" Banner in front of your shop. Heh, yeah, I've seen some banners. But, accepting bitcoin in-world: Where? And then, how? Obviously anybody can do it through a website, and so through MoaP or llLoadURL, but how is it done for real in-world transactions? Or is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullperm Alpha Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 Back to the Topic: Why is Lindenlabs still ignoring Bitcoin ? Even Paypal has integrated Bitcoin: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2014/09/23/paypal-takes-small-step-toward-bitcoin-partners-with-cryptocurrency-processors/ The things i would like to see: Bitcoin payments inworld and on the marketplace Cash withdrawal and deposit on Lindex Cutting the propietary solution Lindendollar I've phoned with the phone support of Lindenlabs and asked him why they are still ignoring Bitcoin and that Lindenlabs said years before they are doing this step due to money laundering. He loughed and said: that was only a fake reason because they are interested in controlling the currency - on this way they could decide how much and when the Lindendollar can be converted to real $ and keep the rest in their own pocket. This is a good technique to get a big credit from the Secondlife inhabtitants. I am not sure if we should accept this. BTW.: The Bitcoin Bubble is going on ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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