Gender related question?

[Madelaine McMasters]

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VRprofessor wrote:

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

I've no problem with exposing students to the IRB process, but I suppose I'm worried about universities expending IRB resources on research that apparently hasn't been reviewed for efficacy. Is wasting resources to insure ethics... ethical?

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An interesting question.  Some argue that the IRB should evaluate both the ethics and potential efficacy of research. 

I prefer closer faculty supervision for the efficacy side of the question, but situations like you describe strength the argument for those who want to broaden the IRB's responsibilities.  

FWIW--the typical student survey would be "exempt" from full review.  A single staff member would look it over, decide there was nothing particularly threatening, and approve the study to go forward.  Pretty minimal use of IRB resources.  

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Over the twenty years or so that I've been loosely connected to IRB research, I'd say that efficacy has been a greater problem than ethics. It's been frustrating to see the IRB crawl all over privacy/safety issues for research that crashes to the ground on peer review. I'm surprised by the pervasiveness of innumeracy in academia.

But why should academia be different? It's full of people!

;-)

[VRprofessor]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

The point I'm flailing to make is that critical thinking continues to be important. I don't know if it's more important than ever before, but it's certainly no less important.

.

 

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Searching for information on the internet is one example of where critical thinking is more important today than it was in the past.   Instead of having a handful of teacher approved sources available, you have the entire world of information and misinformation available at your finger tips.  

I vote for more important.

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

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VRprofessor wrote:

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

The point I'm flailing to make is that critical thinking continues to be important. I don't know if it's more important than ever before, but it's certainly no less important.

.

 

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Searching for information on the internet is one example of where critical thinking is 

more

important today than it was in the past.   Instead of having a handful of teacher approved sources available, you have the entire world of information and misinformation available at your finger tips.  

I vote for more important.

 

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I lean towards more important, too. But it's only a leaning. I had pretty good teachers (I was home schooled) until college. Some of the teacher approved sources there were crap, as were the teachers themselves. It might seem like critical thinking is more important when the library (internet) is filled with books written by your neighbors (or me). But I'm not ready to believe that the subset of the public that teaches the majority is somehow blessed with superior wisdom.

Caveat mathitís?

Google translate says that's Greek for "learner" but I'm skeptical ;-)

[VRprofessor]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

 

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Over the twenty years or so that I've been loosely connected to IRB research, I'd say that efficacy has been a greater problem than ethics. It's been frustrating to see the IRB crawl all over privacy/safety issues for research that crashes to the ground on peer review. I'm surprised by the pervasiveness of innumeracy in academia.

But why should academia be different? It's full of people!

;-)

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Many folks fail to understand the proper place of a survey.  They also fail to understand how much work a good survey takes.  

Graduate programs often spend a good deal of time on experiments, but little or no time on surveys.   Surveys are somehow assumed to be trivially easy to conduct and hard to screw up.  

If we spent more time training folks on the when and how of survey research perhaps we'd see fewer problems with failed efficacy.   

[Zenephobe]

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VRprofessor wrote:

 

The LL terms of service are not the same as federal requirements for the protection of human subjects.  Common sense says that you should follow federal requirements for the conduct of research.

 The only issue I raise with student research is the failure to meet those basic requirements.  I say nothing about the research posted that appears to be following those requirements.  

All of us have some responsibility to assure that students make the most of their education. 

 

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We do? Since when? What do you propose that we do, alert the Federal Government that a person is asking questions on a video game forum?

[VRprofessor]

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Zenephobe wrote:

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VRprofessor wrote:

 

The LL terms of service are not the same as federal requirements for the protection of human subjects.  Common sense says that you should follow federal requirements for the conduct of research.

 The only issue I raise with student research is the failure to meet those basic requirements.  I say nothing about the research posted that appears to be following those requirements.  

All of us have some responsibility to assure that students make the most of their education. 

 

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We do? Since when? What do you propose that we do, alert the Federal Government that a person is asking questions on a video game forum?

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I propose that we tell students they are not following procedure and suggest (strongly if necessary)  that they take corrective actions ASAP.   As I said in an earlier post I am not interested in getting these students in serious trouble, but they do need to learn to follow procedures. 

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Zenephobe wrote:

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VRprofessor wrote:

 

The LL terms of service are not the same as federal requirements for the protection of human subjects.  Common sense says that you should follow federal requirements for the conduct of research.

 The only issue I raise with student research is the failure to meet those basic requirements.  I say nothing about the research posted that appears to be following those requirements.  

All of us have some responsibility to assure that students make the most of their education. 

 

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We do? Since when? What do you propose that we do, alert the Federal Government that a person is asking questions on a video game forum?

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Evolution appears to have selected for cooperation. I think it's okay to express that as "All of us have some responsibility to assure  ___insert social good here___". We could argue whether we actually have the free will to be responsible or just do what we're wired for, but that would want another thread.

The methods we use to achieve those social goods are many. The feedback the OP got here was, I hope, illuminating. VRprofessor provided some of that feedback, so I'll guess he was fulfilling the responsibility he feels, just as I was.

[Janelle Darkstone]

I wonder how many students finally graduate college, enter the real world and find out it's just easier to lie or not tell the whole truth unless you happen to be in front of a grand jury ( and even then you'll have a lawyer and, if he's a good one, lies and half-truths with the best of them ).

Lying.  It works for politicians, lawyers, policemen, ad executives, insurance salesmen, clergy, used car salesmen, new car salesmen....

Note to all students conducting surveys here: don't say anything, just ask your questions, form your statistics and bend them to suit your purposes like you would anyway.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Janelle Darkstone wrote:

I wonder how many students finally graduate college, enter the real world and find out it's just easier to lie or not tell the whole truth unless you happen to be in front of a grand jury ( and even then you'll have a lawyer and, if he's a

good

one, lies and half-truths with the best of them ).

Lying.  It works for politicians, lawyers, policemen, ad executives, insurance salesmen, clergy, used car salesmen,

new

car salesmen....

Note to all students conducting surveys here: don't say anything, just ask your questions, form your statistics and bend them to suit your purposes like you would anyway.

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I think that's why it's incumbent on all of us to think critically, and to encourage and teach others to do the same. If you don't want BS to rise to the top, you've got to detect it at the bottom.

I was lucky enough to work in engineering, where the laws of physics are strictly enforced by the greatest BS detector of all time... Nature.

[Tex Monday]

What really annoys me about this whole survey process is that the students think, IMO, that it's a quick easy way of getting answers without doing any real work. For example..the OP has been inworld for about a week. My guess might be that they created an AV for the sole purpose of gathering information for a paper...they have probably never seen the inside of SL.

As I think I may have said in other posts, I would be happy to answer their questions if they started out by saying something like "Hi..I've been in SL for about 6 months now, studying (insert topic here) and now I need some follow up information....." Then, I would be more likely to assist hoping that the person actually did more than just come here asking questions.

So..I will not answer your questions and wish you the best of luck in your research project.

 

[Phil Deakins]

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Reallycuriousgeorge wrote:

Questions for people who don’t gender bend

Why do you think that people want to play as their opposite gender on an online game?

I've no idea.

 

(a)

How do you think people respond to players who are not the gender they play as?

(b)

How would you respond?

(a) I've no idea.

(b) I lose interest in them completely, and I don't even want to be in the same place as them.

 

Do you think people who gender bend are forth coming or do they wait to be asked? 

I've no idea.

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I'll add that there is no right or wrong with gender-bending - it's each to his or her own. It's just that I have no time for it, because my avatar is me and I only want to deal with real people who are fundamentally what they appear to be. Apparent age is an exception, of course, but gender is fundamental. Many people role-play, and that's fine as long as they don't role-play the wrong gender with me

[Ags Falconer]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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Janelle Darkstone wrote:

I wonder how many students finally graduate college, enter the real world and find out it's just easier to lie or not tell the whole truth unless you happen to be in front of a grand jury ( and even then you'll have a lawyer and, if he's a

good

one, lies and half-truths with the best of them ).

Lying.  It works for politicians, lawyers, policemen, ad executives, insurance salesmen, clergy, used car salesmen,

new

car salesmen....

Note to all students conducting surveys here: don't say anything, just ask your questions, form your statistics and bend them to suit your purposes like you would anyway.

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I think that's why it's incumbent on all of us to think critically, and to encourage and teach others to do the same. If you don't want BS to rise to the top, you've got to detect it at the bottom.

I was lucky enough to work in engineering, where the laws of physics are strictly enforced by the greatest BS detector of all time... Nature.

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I don't know Madi, I've gotten along okay without thinking too much, critically or otherwise.  I'm saving my brain for something really important.  Just not sure what yet.....

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Ags Falconer wrote:

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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Janelle Darkstone wrote:

I wonder how many students finally graduate college, enter the real world and find out it's just easier to lie or not tell the whole truth unless you happen to be in front of a grand jury ( and even then you'll have a lawyer and, if he's a

good

one, lies and half-truths with the best of them ).

Lying.  It works for politicians, lawyers, policemen, ad executives, insurance salesmen, clergy, used car salesmen,

new

car salesmen....

Note to all students conducting surveys here: don't say anything, just ask your questions, form your statistics and bend them to suit your purposes like you would anyway.

---

I think that's why it's incumbent on all of us to think critically, and to encourage and teach others to do the same. If you don't want BS to rise to the top, you've got to detect it at the bottom.

I was lucky enough to work in engineering, where the laws of physics are strictly enforced by the greatest BS detector of all time... Nature.

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I don't know Madi, I've gotten along okay without thinking too much, critically or otherwise.  I'm saving my brain for something really important.  Just not sure what yet.....

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A biopsy?!

;-)